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Thread: Ni

  1. #1
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Default Ni

    Ni = magical imaginary possibilities

    Si = real stuff that is awesome

    Ni = time and clocks

    Si = feeling good and chilling out

    Ni = prophecy

    Si = F U I'm a dwagon
    Moonlight will fall
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    strrrng's Avatar
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    ya totally

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    100% agree.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Ni: thinking about what's going to happen in the future
    Si: paying attention to what's going on right now

    (Not perfect, but eh.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Ni: thinking about what's going to happen in the future
    Si: paying attention to what's going on right now

    (Not perfect, but eh.)
    Ni can be about the past, future, or present. The key is that it's about what's underlying (as opposed to what's apparent).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Ni can be about the past, future, or present. The key is that it's about what's underlying (as opposed to what's apparent).
    right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Ni can be about the past, future, or present. The key is that it's about what's underlying (as opposed to what's apparent).
    Can you give an example of something that is Ni but not related to time? Not the past or future necessarily, of course, but time in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    well that's one dichotomy -- fields rather than objects. but the dynamic as opposed to static nature seems characteristic of the aspect, too.
    I thought she was referring to external vs. internal, because in the post she quoted Elro was comparing Si and Ni

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    I'm an Ni type, yet I never know, or care about what time it is; I guess worrying about that stuff is more related to Si.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    I'm an Ni type, yet I never know, or care about what time it is; I guess worrying about that stuff is more related to Si.
    Any type can be aware of time. Why people try to make this quality inherent to Ni, I don't know.

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    The reason people attribute time to Ni is because of the way in which Ni manifests itself. Ni deals with underlying processes. Take Ne and turn it in on itself and you begin to understand how it works and why Ni types are more focused than Ne types.
    The Ni type can see what would lead to fruition of a possibility but that means an event or series of events would have to occur. Events exist through time. I like to think of Ni like a chain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I thought she was referring to external vs. internal, because in the post she quoted Elro was comparing Si and Ni
    correct

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Can you give an example of something that is Ni but not related to time? Not the past or future necessarily, of course, but time in general.
    Everything's related to time. (Not as information aspects, but as elements.)
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    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
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    Ok, munenori take no offense because I don't dislike you, but your descriptions are total bullshit. For starters, if Ni is the intuition of possibilities than what is Ne?

    Ni is the potential energy component of the human psyche. It pretty much defines the human expression. In essence, it is the person liberal(which can be quite conservative) core. It is what makes up the person's interior motives and ideologies. Whether a person wants to expand their minds or if the person wants to settle into stability, Ni is the function that determines this. Ni is how we approach the world, in ideology context(as opposed to action context, which would be Se). As I have said before, everyone has to value the Ni function, because everyone has potential ideologies or goals.

    +Ni- Evolution, normalcy, stability, confidence(because of stability).
    -Ni- Revolution, eccentricity, originality, anti-stability, fear.

    Now if you are a Delta, +Ni should be the function you use. You should usually try to fit in with societies expectations.
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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Ok, munenori take no offense because I don't dislike you, but your descriptions are total bullshit.
    None taken. I was being facetious.
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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Yeah, this thread has made me laugh because it seems rather apparent given the "Si = F U I'm a dwagon" that Mune here was not trying to be serious. It is rather entertaining that everyone took off running to make this into a serious discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Yeah, this thread has made me laugh because it seems rather apparent given the "Si = F U I'm a dwagon" that Mune here was not trying to be serious. It is rather entertaining that everyone took off running to make this into a serious discussion.
    I think I have a tendency to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    how am i concerned with time, while i'm using Ti to perform a mathematic proof? (assume no pressing time constraints.)
    true
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Everything's related to time. (Not as information aspects, but as elements.)
    Not really to the point; this is why I made such a big deal of metasocionics, because our understanding of various aspects of reality can change over time. However, Ni still *is* about how things develop over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    how am i concerned with time, while i'm using Ti to perform a mathematic proof? (assume no pressing time constraints.)
    Actually this has a lot to do with time, the steps in a proof - though it's more Ne than Ni, because there is a clearly defined origin and conclusion. This concept is related to some other ideas I have about how to define the elements more rigorously, as they apply to formal languages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Yeah, this thread has made me laugh because it seems rather apparent given the "Si = F U I'm a dwagon" that Mune here was not trying to be serious. It is rather entertaining that everyone took off running to make this into a serious discussion.
    This is socionics...

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    This is a hopeless debate, you can't define Ni in the way that you'll are doing it. Its not possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    This is a hopeless debate, you can't define Ni in the way that you'll are doing it. Its not possible.
    Why don't you give us a definition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Not really to the point; this is why I made such a big deal of metasocionics, because our understanding of various aspects of reality can change over time. However, Ni still *is* about how things develop over time.
    In a way, yes... but so is Si.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    In a way, yes... but so is Si.
    But if something involves a progression over time, it's inherently about Ni. That doesn't mean that something can be about both Si and Ni. Information elements rarely act alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    But if something involves a progression over time, it's inherently about Ni.
    I disagree. If it's apparent, it's Si. If it's underlying, it's Ni... regardless of how long a period we're talking about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I disagree. If it's apparent, it's Si. If it's underlying, it's Ni... regardless of how long a period we're talking about.
    This is what I was trying to get at before. What's an example of something that's underlying, related to Ni, but not about a temporal progression?

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    I'm not saying that Ni isn't about the dynamics of fields. I'm saying that Si is as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Ni can be about the past, future, or present.
    What I was getting at here is that I see Ni as being timeless. Yes, the connections happen through time, but from my perspective, that's not where the focus lies. (But maybe I just take it for granted?)

    I'm not sure how to better explain it at the moment.
    Last edited by Joy; 06-08-2008 at 05:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I'm not saying that Ni isn't about the dynamics of fields. I'm saying that Si is as well.
    ?

    Of course they are, but I'm trying to come up with more concrete definitions than "external dynamics of fields". As far as I can tell, dynamics of fields just means something that continuously varies.

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    Connections between events, connections through time, cause and effect relationships. Take your pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    What I was getting at here is that I see Ni as being timeless. Yes, the connections happen through time, but from my perspective, that's not where they focus lies. (But maybe I just take it for granted?)
    This sounds right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    proofs are sequential. an implication statement alone can be read as a time series "if..then". but unless we're publishing the proof or computerizing it (and thus are worried about runtime constraints and parsimony) do i necessarily care about the particular sequence used, as long as the chain (to use Tov's analogy) is logical and gets from A to B? strong Ne can come up with reasonable guesses for each step and Ti can check if each step is reasonable. if we're only checking a proof (grading an exam, etc.) or regurgitating a construction verbatim, then even Ne isn't needed. the more complicated the proof, the more difficult it is to approach either way, but the point is there are at least some cases where one can Ti without Ni-ing.
    Yes, that's exactly right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What I was getting at here is that I see Ni as being timeless. Yes, the connections happen through time, but from my perspective, that's not where the focus lies. (But maybe I just take it for granted?)

    I'm not sure how to better explain it at the moment.
    Ni is Xanax.

    proofs are sequential. an implication statement alone can be read as a time series "if..then". but unless we're publishing the proof or computerizing it (and thus are worried about runtime constraints and parsimony) do i necessarily care about the particular sequence used, as long as the chain (to use Tov's analogy) is logical and gets from A to B? strong Ne can come up with reasonable guesses for each step and Ti can check if each step is reasonable. if we're only checking a proof (grading an exam, etc.) or regurgitating a construction verbatim, then even Ne isn't needed. the more complicated the proof, the more difficult it is to approach either way, but the point is there are at least some cases where one can Ti without Ni-ing.
    So, you're a result type!
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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    For my opinion on Ni, see my comment in the Si vs. Ni thread.
    ILE
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