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Thread: PoLR problems

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    Default PoLR problems

    So it's generally accepted that the Super-Ego, and the PoLR in particular make people feel self-conscious. But more specifically, it makes a person feel like there is a problem that they are expected to fix but can't. The problem is usually with yourself, since people generally don't care enough about the Super-Ego to actively influence other people with it.

    The healthiest way to approach the problem is instead through the element in the 6th function (hidden agenda), which can deal with the same problem but perceives it very differently and has a slightly different idea of how to solve it.

    Se: I am trapped in a bad place and have to get out. / Si: I am in a disharmony with my surroundings that has to be resolved.
    Ne: There is an imminent catastrophe and I have to stop it. / Ni: The future is uncertain, and I have to prepare for it.
    Fe: I have a bad feeling that I need to get rid of. / Fi: I am in a bad relationship and have to make it better.
    Te: I am ignorant and must learn more. / Ti: I am confused and need to figure out what's important.

    This also applies somewhat to the 3rd and 5th functions, though in that case it's more of a problem that you actually think is worth solving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Fe: I have a bad feeling that I need to get rid of.
    This does seem to resonate with Paul Vitti's PoLR.
    Last edited by Park; 06-03-2008 at 04:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotelambush
    Te: I am ignorant and must learn more.
    that is not what Te polr is about at all

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    How would you say it, then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotelambush
    How would you say it, then?
    For me, it feels like never being able to establish a consistent, objective connection with reality. It's not so much that I hate factual knowledge of phenomena (lol) as much as it is not really being able to view reality in that external/objective way. I want a Ti structure of things...and Te definitely goes against that.

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    Fi: I am in a bad relationship and have ti make it better.
    I can related that with my PoLR.

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    Hmm, ok. I'll try to think of a concise way of putting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotelambush
    Hmm, ok. I'll try to think of a concise way of putting it.
    no worries. it's hard to explain something as complex as the nature of a polr in 1-2 sentences.

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    Right, I'm not sure that your description applies to Fi PoLRs. I mean, what if you're not in a bad relationship, or even a good one, for that matter? Then again, I can't offer an alternative perspective, because I don't place any value on it, so why would I want to devise strategies to help myself there? That's the point of having a PoLR. It means you're not competent in it, and don't give a shit about being competent in it. On the other hand, devising some kind of method for better use of one's HA or DS function is much more productive.

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    Yeah, I think the Fi one is a bit off too.

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Maybe something like:

    Te: I'm taking too much time and making too many mistakes; I need to be more aware and speedy.
    Or how about, "I can't keep track of so much [data] at once."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotelambush
    Or how about, "I can't keep track of so much [data] at once."
    Maybe, but I have found that I am able to process things fairly rapidly, so I don't know. It may have something to do with constantly taking in "objective" type of data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Te: I am ignorant and must learn more.
    I feel like that often :-), but I wouldn't say it really describes my PoLR. My level of knowledge isn't a reflection of my intelligence or my ability to understand, so I wouldn't really take it personally if someone accused me of being ignorant in an area which I'd never studied up on. I feel more frustrated by my inability to put things in consise terms or to be able to provide solid evidence in support of a theory. Because I can spend days studying something and feel like at the end of it all I have are impressions. I find it difficult to retain a record of my thought processes so I'm left with opinions that I'm pretty sure about, but ask me why I've come to the conclusions I did and I'll really struggle to do so. If people could communicate in impressions I would be laughing. :-)

    The same goes for understanding something. I feel like I can get my head around an idea pretty easily and get a good impression of what a person is saying, but if you were to ask me to put into my own words what they’ve just said, I’d find it very hard - even though in my mind I feel like I’ve grasped the concept perfectly.

    I would say, Te: I want to explain myself logically, but I can't.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 06-03-2008 at 10:03 PM.
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    Hm, but that sounds a lot like Ti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Hm, but that sounds a lot like Ti.
    Ti PoLR??

    How about "I wish I could remember the traits of each function, but I can't". :-(
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Ti PoLR??

    How about "I wish I could remember the traits of each function, but I can't". :-(
    : )
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Ti PoLR??
    No, it sounds like it could possibly be a problem related to Ti too. Explanation can be either Ti or Te, depending on whether it's logical or empirical (self-contained or from an outside source).

    How about "I wish I could remember the traits of each function, but I can't". :-(
    Mm, yeah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I feel like that often :-), but I wouldn't say it really describes my PoLR. My level of knowledge isn't a reflection of my intelligence or my ability to understand, so I wouldn't really take it personally if someone accused me of being ignorant in an area which I'd never studied up on. I feel more frustrated by my inability to put things in consise terms or to be able to provide solid evidence in support of a theory. Because I can spend days studying something and feel like at the end of it all I have are impressions. I find it difficult to retain a record of my thought processes so I'm left with opinions that I'm pretty sure about, but ask me why I've come to the conclusions I did and I'll really struggle to do so. If people could communicate in impressions I would be laughing. :-)

    The same goes for understanding something. I feel like I can get my head around an idea pretty easily and get a good impression of what a person is saying, but if you were to ask me to put into my own words what they’ve just said, I’d find it very hard - even though in my mind I feel like I’ve grasped the concept perfectly.

    I would say, Te: I want to explain myself logically, but I can't.
    I want to address Te polr. I have experience with both INFps and ISFps, and one of my closest irl friends is a VERY Fe INFp (strongly prefers Fe).

    The ways I see polr most is when the person is unprepared to deal with a situation. Because of this many times it becomes apparent when a polr was hit in the aftermath of the situation in which it was hit.

    One situation I have seen in both ISFps and INFps is one where the Te polr type has failed to plan an event efficiently. They may get embarrased or else stubbornly refuse to acknowledge their "shortcomings", but in either case they are unprepared to address the issue in depth.

    My boss is INFp. There have been several times where I have questioned her strategies toward a goal, and I see that she is flustered by some outward clues that i hit her polr and then quickly withdraw. One time I said "was that all that needed to be done? Why wasnt this done a lot sooner" and she looked down at the ground and couldn't come up with anything to say. I think sometimes this sort of reaction could be a lack of Se, but I'm talking specifically about efficient planning, or the ability to see the best way to administrate a solution to a problem that is mechanical or involves events.

    My close INFp friend often dislikes if you state facts and try to build cases off of it. She is a true visionary, and likes to create drama. She had aspirations to be a director. She reacts very obstinately if you object to one of her ideas with facts, but does not argue back logically or with facts. She will just make a face at you.

    One ISFp i know made some bad plans that caused me a lot of distress. I was furious and argued about it with her for weeks. I said APOLOGIZE. and she is like, "what do i need to apologize for? I just knew you'd never do it on your own and weren't happy so I arranged to have it happen" or something to that effect. She was focusing on making me feel better and on action (that could be Se but ISFps have strong Se, or more Se than the Ne person), and all the details of how it came about were of non-importance-- rather it wasnt even on her radar. I just stewed in bitterness for a week or two and tried to just say "she meant well". I also find that it is very hard for her to accurately remember facts. She will remember the mood..but i think that i also have a preference for this so it might not have to do with Te polr exclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    : )

    how is this cute?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    One situation I have seen in both ISFps and INFps is one where the Te polr type has failed to plan an event efficiently. They may get embarrased or else stubbornly refuse to acknowledge their "shortcomings", but in either case they are unprepared to address the issue in depth.

    My boss is INFp. There have been several times where I have questioned her strategies toward a goal, and I see that she is flustered by some outward clues that i hit her polr and then quickly withdraw. One time I said "was that all that needed to be done? Why wasnt this done a lot sooner" and she looked down at the ground and couldn't come up with anything to say. I think sometimes this sort of reaction could be a lack of Se, but I'm talking specifically about efficient planning, or the ability to see the best way to administrate a solution to a problem that is mechanical or involves events.
    Yeah, that would hurt. I would probably look down at the ground too, and I'd be thinking "What's your problem?? Ok, I messed up. Why don't you help me fix things instead of harping on about things that can't be changed?"
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    .

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    When I hear "data" I don't exactly think about emotional data, it's like the kind of stuff niffweed posts from wikipedia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    How about "I wish I could remember the traits of each function, but I can't". :-(
    Could this not just be related to bad memory?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    lol. so cute <3
    Alot of SEI/IEI strike me as being like this. But I am so different. And so is strrrng. Isn't that strange? I guess it can help you define the function more purely (not as just feeling ignorant ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Could this not just be related to bad memory?
    Eh, this is embarrassing. I'm not that thick really. It was just a joke, which obviously fell quite flat. My knowledge of the functions is directly related to the time - or lack of time rather - I have put into studying about them.

    Esper, thanks for the <3, but I'm disturbed that a lot of SEIs/IEIs strike you as having brains like sieves.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 06-04-2008 at 12:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    No....lol. Not their brains...their Ti! Their Ti!

    They just piddle-paddle around with it rather than get down to business. Why aren't you spending 5 hours a day working on a Socionics site right now, huh? HuH?! (Need that whip...or maybe a cookie. Yes, a cookie for the . ^_^)
    But cookies are Si! Don't take our one claim to fame away from us I beg you!

    So what makes you the exception to the rule?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Eh, this is embarrassing. I'm not that thick really. It was just a joke, which obviously fell quite flat.
    I thought it was funny...: ) ....oh well.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    lol...but then what can be your Ne? I've heard called magic so maybe is magic. Aha--black magic!
    Yeah, or something equally as elusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Of course I'm exaggerating when I say I spend 5 hours a day making a socionics site, but that sure it what it feels like compared to others. And when I talk to them about it they want to talk about it for awhile and then move on, but I want to stay and develop and create it all over again from scratch. =D

    When I learn something, I have to remake the entire system and understand it for myself. I am obsessed until I am so totally immersed in it to that I can apply it creatively and intricately. Only then might I get less involved and move on to something else. That is just how I am. ^_^

    Only sometimes do I meet IEI/SEI (or even other types) so fervent. I wonder why I am different.
    Have you always been like that, or is it a trait that you've developed in your 'old age'? :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Nah, I'm pretty much obsessive about whatever idea I take on. I read the dictionary voraciously while I was supposed to be writing my vocabulary definitions. ^_^ Devoured the SciFi section of my school library. Consumed the Bible. (I never took those darn'd preachers at their word. )

    It's not like I'm doing that all the time. But when I have done it, I do it obsessively, just like, oblivious to everything else. *~*
    I'm envious of people like you. I wish I wasn't so anchored in the present moment and concerned with what's going on around me. To me, a state like that would be something like freedom.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Really?? Trade ya'..

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    You know, I've never heard it put like that. I mean, its fun and all, but its not fulfilling to be so lost in abstract worlds. I wish I could be more in tune with the present...turn my Ni off and just enjoy the moment... Those moments seem like freedom to me. ^_^

    Oh wait, our primary functions are eachother's role functions! I envy you. It's only when I'm healthiest I can be present in the moment without some active valued IM element to lure me there, and not so "lost" in my head.
    Argh - grass, greener and all that ... but I'm sure it would be as green as it looks from my seat ... if I could only get over there!

    What would be ideal is a switch that enabled us to change modes at whim. :-)
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    We need to make a trade.

    One per . Deal?
    Oh yes!! I'll start on the cookies right away!
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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