GillEIE

[Gilly]

People who have seen me on cam, do I seem more ILE or EIE?

[strrrng]

lol, well, I'm sure this will be a very fruitful thread.

I suppose people could mistake your external validation-seeking (which is tied to being a 6 and having the 'so' instinct) and charisma for Fe ego, but I think you are the prototype of an ENTp.

[Lotus]

I kind of think we're in the same quadra... alpha or beta I have no idea.

[strrrng]

He's a light, laid-back alpha. He doesn't have the intensity to be beta, really (no offense). I can sense when someone is giving me Se lol (believe me - I have some good examples)

[UDP]

So far, ILE>EIE

[Exodus]

LALALALALALALALALALA

Enough said.

[Gilly]

What about IEI?

[Ezra]

I kind of think we're in the same quadra... alpha or beta I have no idea.

I think you are too. But I think you're more Alpha than Beta.

He's a light, laid-back alpha. He doesn't have the intensity to be beta, really (no offense). I can sense when someone is giving me Se lol (believe me - I have some good examples)

You can't sense shit, strrrng.

I don't know if you saw when I said this once in chat, gilly, but you remind me a lot of my younger brother, whom I've typed as EIE.

Based on my observations, I could see that. What I'm seeing is either a combination of Fe and funniness in the head (hope you don't mind my saying that, Gilly) or Fe and Se; much of the force of his arguments are based around making good points sound great; something politicians are prone to doing. And what types do politicians tend to be? EIEs.

i don't think you're quite as "laid-back" as most alpha NT-Ne's here.

I wouldn't call Alpha NTs laid-back. They may look laid-back, but mentally, they're very much alive.

What about IEI?

IP temperament is laughable. I think we can all agree that you're extraverted; that you draw your energy externally; that you make more of an effort than most introverts on the forum to initiate social interaction; that you fit pretty much every definition of "extraverted" in socionics theory.

[Gilly]

at peak judiciousness, there is, among other things, a lack of time-criticialness and narrowly-defined goals (due to subdued Ni and Se.) where by that, i am not only referring to material goals, but also to ideas and the manner of discussion.

surely other activities can take the place of this -- whether Ne+Ti generation of ideas or Si+Fe playfulness. alphas have their own liveliness, but i was reply to strrrng and he appears to be talking about a specific kind of laid-backness contrasted with resolute values.

Why do people bother using Reinin Dichotomies to describe such things? Is it not enough to refer to Ni/Se vs Si/Ne?

[Gilly]

I am a P. I am pretty sure of this.

[Gilly]

I am ILE. Please kill me if I start thinking otherwise.

[Exodus]

Enough said.

Just to be clear, this refers to a time in the chat where Ezra and I were trying to have a serious conversation about socionics and Gilly was singing enthusiastically at the top of his lungs. Gilly, I know you're more than capable of discussing ideas but it's definitely not your primary mode. There is absolutely no reason for ILE other than that you are kind of unpredictable and playful. But it's pretty clear that you value Se - moreover that you have Se HA, considering all the petty fights you like to instigate.

[strrrng]

You can't sense shit, strrrng.

I can sense your contrived Se act

[JuJu]

G, do you have a video you could link to here..?

[ScarlettLux]

Ya know, I think Gilly IS an EIE. He feels Beta to me. I used to think he must be ILE, but I was mistaken ... thinking about the overall interactions he's had on the forums.

[Kristiina]

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/c...t=S7300696.flv

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vUgQBIe_Qg8

Gilly, you are ILE in the video. Look at the eye movement. just so intense and all over the place. And the rest of the expressions are somewhat exaggerated. The entire face looks bland (no offence) but at some moments there's half an expression - like there's the knowledge that eyebrows should be raised so they are. Or that there should be a laugh, so there is. Seems somewhat deliberate. Not bad at all, gives all the information that an Fe-ego type needs. I like ILEs, but that's not Fe dominat trait at all.

And Ezra is saying Leon is Ne dominant like Gilly (stupid Ezra, rethink that RIGHT AWAY!!! okay? ) and is between ENTp and ENFp. But I just watched the Ezra-Leon perforn for the16types video. Observe Leon there! His expressions are frequent and rich. Like you can compare a bland italian/french red wine with an rich sugary spicey south african wine. There's just no comparison in the expressions. Leon has 10 times more face muscle movement for simple "okay" than Gilly has for a funny story highlight moment.

[Ezra]

Why do people bother using Reinin Dichotomies to describe such things? Is it not enough to refer to Ni/Se vs Si/Ne?

Errr, I didn't see ifmd95 talk about Reinin at all in the post you quoted.

Really? This is something I hadn't looked into. I've heard it alot on this board and never understood it. Most politicians seem stuffy and uncharismatic to me, like their actual Fe passion isn't very good. There seem to be only a few who actually utilize Fe to ignite their followers to action. Like Martin Luther King, who I think some typed as EIE. But even if they're being dishonest, IME Fe's seem "into" what they're saying, like they've almost had to convince themselves, and, to me, most politicians don't. I see that more often in activists than in politicians vying for an office, so I don't see how it's common for politicians.

Would you mind giving me some examples to help explain? ^~^

It's ironic really, because certain British politicians actually aren't really convincing anyone at the moment (no names, but *coughDavid Cameroncough*). I think you might be seeing the "stuffiness" and the uncharismatic nature in some politicians because they don't actually value Fe. I'm not suggesting all politicians are Fe valuing or strong in it. Simply that it helps them an awful lot if they are. Look at Barack Obama; a black man running for president. This is serious shit for American history.

Have a look at videos of Gordon Brown (ILI) and Tony Blair (LIE). Blair tries to use Fe, but because it's role, it's used in a contrived way. With Gordon Brown, his zero charisma is down to Fe PoLR.

I am a P. I am pretty sure of this.

Bitch please! And you tell me to type by functions only.

Just to be clear, this refers to a time in the chat where Ezra and I were trying to have a serious conversation about socionics and Gilly was singing enthusiastically at the top of his lungs. Gilly, I know you're more than capable of discussing ideas but it's definitely not your primary mode. There is absolutely no reason for ILE other than that you are kind of unpredictable and playful. But it's pretty clear that you value Se - moreover that you have Se HA, considering all the petty fights you like to instigate.

I'd tend to agree. No offence intended, Gilly.

I can sense your contrived Se act

Yeah. I thought your argument for LSE was really logical and effective. It fits perfectly with poor use of Se.

G, do you have a video you could link to here..?

G, hahahaha. Wassup G!? Wot shit iz goin' down bruv!?

(stupid Ezra, rethink that RIGHT AWAY!!! okay? )

Great argument. I will take that into account.

[strrrng]

Yeah. I thought your argument for LSE was really logical and effective. It fits perfectly with poor use of Se.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The only thing that fits is your generic behavior within your deluded a priori of yourself

[hellothere]

And Ezra is saying Leon is Ne dominant like Gilly (stupid Ezra, rethink that RIGHT AWAY!!! okay? ) and is between ENTp and ENFp. But I just watched the Ezra-Leon perforn for the16types video. Observe Leon there! His expressions are frequent and rich. Like you can compare a bland italian/french red wine with an rich sugary spicey south african wine. There's just no comparison in the expressions. Leon has 10 times more face muscle movement for simple "okay" than Gilly has for a funny story highlight moment.

It's strange that you and ScarlettLux (both most probably Beta NFs) have such different views of Leon.

[Ezra]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The only thing that fits is your generic behavior within your deluded a priori of yourself

Of course! I forgot about a priori self-perception. How useful. Especially to people who have no idea about the real world.

I suggested he at least consider the dichotomies.

In case you thought I was addressing you, I wasn't. I was referring to Gilly's insistence that I don't use dichotomies to type myself or others, but only the functions. Now he's making the same dumbass statements like "I think I am definitely P" that he preaches I should never use.

Fucking hypocrite, Gilly.

So we use our 8th functions "poorly" now? What other function outside the ego is as likely to be effective? This is one of the more lousy arguments for your type IMO.

Okay, you didn't note the sarcasm intended there. This is something you need to get into strrrng's little Ashton-infested brain, because I've been trying to explain that a) LSEs are competent in Se and so it doesn't look contrived and b) LSEs wouldn't want to use Se because they don't value it, and - in Expat's words - it would be "scaring one's dual away" with the use of Se (why the fuck would an LSE attempt to use their Se when their dual is Se PoLR?). It's a massive hole in his argument, which is why I find the idea completely laughable.

[JuJu]

G, hahahaha. Wassup G!? Wot shit iz goin' down bruv!?

Don't front Ezra, he my G.

Unless he was sippin syrup before that video: ENTp... First time I've seen him talk... Is this representative of how he usually is?

[strrrng]

Okay, you didn't note the sarcasm intended there. This is something you need to get into strrrng's little Ashton-infested brain, because I've been trying to explain that a) LSEs are competent in Se and so it doesn't look contrived and b) LSEs wouldn't want to use Se because they don't value it, and - in Expat's words - it would be "scaring one's dual away" with the use of Se (why the fuck would an LSE attempt to use their Se when their dual is Se PoLR?). It's a massive hole in his argument, which is why I find the idea completely laughable.

It is not about forcing your 8th function, annoying your dual or any of that bullshit - yours is a very specific case. Your a priori about your being all aggressive and direct causes this stupid behavior, which is generally translated to Se in socionics. It's not that you inherently try to force the information element of extraverted sensing; it's that you try to force an attitude that is commonly associated with extraverted sensing, thus making people think you're SLE. Is that so difficult to understand lol

btw your stickam pic kind of demonstrates what I'm talking about lol.

[strrrng]

btw Ezra, I actually like you lol...so it's not like I have a personal vendetta against you. I just like it when people act real.

[Ezra]

It is not about forcing your 8th function, annoying your dual or any of that bullshit - yours is a very specific case. Your a priori about your being all aggressive and direct causes this stupid behavior, which is generally translated to Se in socionics. It's not that you inherently try to force the information element of extraverted sensing; it's that you try to force an attitude that is commonly associated with extraverted sensing, thus making people think you're SLE. Is that so difficult to understand lol

btw your stickam pic kind of demonstrates what I'm talking about lol.

Which one, the Humphrey Bogart one? Or the other one of me?

btw Ezra, I actually like you lol...so it's not like I have a personal vendetta against you. I just like it when people act real.

The feelings are mutual. I just think you argue in an idiotic way. It's totally illogical. If, for example, you were to argue that I was weak in Se but that I valued it e.g. if I was an EIE or an LIE, then I could understand your case. But you think I am LSE and Se valuing as well as weak in it, which is a glaring contradiction. Is that so difficult to understand?

Or do you think I'm good with Se but that I over do it, giving the appearance that it's contrived?

[strrrng]

The feelings are mutual. I just think you argue in an idiotic way. It's totally illogical. whatever lol

If, for example, you were to argue that I was weak in Se but that I valued it e.g. if I was an EIE or an LIE, then I could understand your case. first of all, I am not talking about being weak or strong at it. get that through your fucking head.

But you think I am LSE and Se valuing as well as weak in it, which is a glaring contradiction. Is that so difficult to understand? I didn't say you were Se-valuing! I said you try to appear Se. I didn't say you were weak in it either. All I said was that it is a fucking act. this isn't about skill/weakness, value/unvalued; it's just the simple fact that you have a facade.

Or do you think I'm good with Se but that I over do it, giving the appearance that it's contrived? I can't say definitively whether or not you're "good" at it. I think you overdo trying to be direct, aggressive, etc, which manifests as stereotypical Se behaviors, thus leading others to believe you are ESTp

was that logical enough for you?

[Gilly]

Whatever quadra thehotelambush is in, I am probably not in it. I don't think there has been a person on the forum yet whom I have found so annoying.

[strrrng]

Whatever quadra thehotelambush is in, I am probably not in it. I don't think there has been a person on the forum yet whom I have found so annoying.

lol

[Ezra]

was that logical enough for you?

I'm done with you. You make no sense.

[strrrng]

I'm done with you. You make no sense.

lol k. I'd still be willing to discuss it in pm.

[Gilly]

life sucks and then you die. get high while you can.

[strrrng]

life sucks and then you die. get high while you can.

forrall

[Gilly]

i am the macdaddy of machined monkey mockery. mess my maligned malchick's moneygrubbing mewtwo.

[hellothere]

It is not about forcing your 8th function, annoying your dual or any of that bullshit - yours is a very specific case. Your a priori about your being all aggressive and direct causes this stupid behavior, which is generally translated to Se in socionics. It's not that you inherently try to force the information element of extraverted sensing; it's that you try to force an attitude that is commonly associated with extraverted sensing, thus making people think you're SLE. Is that so difficult to understand lol

actually I don't think strrrng is being "illogical" here at all - this explanation, at least to me, is a perfectly valid possibility - I have no problem following the logic in this argument, and I now understand what I previously thought was a somewhat absurd claim (that you are the dual of an Se-polr type). However I don't see any reason to agree with his initial premise so I will accept the much simpler explanation that you (Ezra) display an attitude commonly associated with Se because you are indeed an Se ego type.

[Gilly]

I am 7w6 so/sx. I'm afraid of creating familiarity because I hate leaving people behind who I love, and my life has pretty much been a developed sequence of leaving-behinds. I am always looking for a new lens through which to view the world because it keeps things interesting. I am random, risky, and impulsive. I have something inside that needs to get out, but also a hole that needs to be filled. I do things that most people think are just silly, like drive with my left foot hanging out the window. I love singing at the top of my voice even (especially?) when people think it's ridiculous. I am interested in personal development above nearly all. I like to make people laugh more than anything, but internally I feel wounded and probably need to be made to laugh at myself more than anything. I hate people who are anxious and retentive. I am bored by people with no taste for excitement or adventure. I love people who can appreciate that commiseration is not always just sad but also cathartic and helpful when you are able to see where it has led you. I appreciate it above all when someone can identify with the weird shit that goes on up in my head because it makes me feel less alone in the world. I'm a life junkie and I live for the next high, whether it's a drug, a meditation experience, a connection with a person, a fascinating piece of writing or music, or even death. I want someone who is as crazy as me, who needs what I have but who won't try to leech off of my supportive nature, and can stand on their own two feet. I like long walks in the woods and being naked outside.

That's probably the most important stuff about me. Typety type type type.

[Ezra]

strrrng is following a different socionics model and understanding than the majority of the16types... that's why it's so hard (and probably useless) to have a discussion with him about this.

(disclaimer: I'm not trying to claim one side is more "right" than the other or anything like that)

Right, okay, that explains it. strrrng, you have to realise that I don't follow this model, and that in said model, I may well be an LSE, but I'm not interested in studying said model right now. Hence, please stop telling me I'm a type in classical socionics that I'm not. I'm interested in classical socionics, and in classical socionics, I am an SEE.

[hellothere]

to be fair, unless Strrrng's understanding of the information elements themselves (e.g. Se) is different from that of the majority of users here, I don't think the use of some other non-classical model is the reason for the disagreement on your type Ezra.

It seems to stem more from the premise that you have this notion in your head that you must act in some confrontational/aggressive way (which happens to resemble Se ego). However I don't really understand why he believes this to be true.

[Gilly]

Talk about Ezra somewhere else.

I am 7w6 so/sx. I'm afraid of creating familiarity because I hate leaving people behind who I love, and my life has pretty much been a developed sequence of leaving-behinds. I am always looking for a new lens through which to view the world because it keeps things interesting. I am random, risky, and impulsive. I have something inside that needs to get out, but also a hole that needs to be filled. I do things that most people think are just silly, like drive with my left foot hanging out the window. I love singing at the top of my voice even (especially?) when people think it's ridiculous. I am interested in personal development above nearly all. I like to make people laugh more than anything, but internally I feel wounded and probably need to be made to laugh at myself more than anything. I hate people who are anxious and retentive. I am bored by people with no taste for excitement or adventure. I love people who can appreciate that commiseration is not always just sad but also cathartic and helpful when you are able to see where it has led you. I appreciate it above all when someone can identify with the weird shit that goes on up in my head because it makes me feel less alone in the world. I'm a life junkie and I live for the next high, whether it's a drug, a meditation experience, a connection with a person, a fascinating piece of writing or music, or even death. I want someone who is as crazy as me, who needs what I have but who won't try to leech off of my supportive nature, and can stand on their own two feet. I like long walks in the woods and being naked outside.

That's probably the most important stuff about me. Typety type type type.

[hellothere]

Talk about Ezra somewhere else.

Sorry, didn't meant to derail your thread.

[Gilly]

I'll live.

I like your avatar, by the way.

[hellothere]

thanks

It kind of depicts my ideal state. I wish I could find a place like that, and be completely free of the demands of society. Though I don't think the setting itself is necessary to achieve that, but it looks nice anyway