Introversion and Perfectionism

[Gilly]

Does anyone else see an inherent link between the two?

The way I see it, introversion is about introspection, taking your time, etc. Introverts, especially perceiving types, like to see all the options and make sure they've got the right one before they move on. In an extreme/unhealthy case, wouldn't this imply a form of perfectionism? I can just see my INFp father brooding over a decision he's made and telling himself that he should've "thought it through" more; something he is CONSTANTLY telling me to do.

Any thoughts?

[Hugo]

ESTj and ESFj hidden agenda according to socionics.com (if that's anything to go by) is "to be perfect".

[Hugo]

me above

[Gilly]

Let's give a round of applause to Hugo for stating the obvious that has next to nothing to do with this topic.


Any other takers?

[Rocky]

I am when it has to do with things that I care about. Useless, everyday stuff, I might get lazy about, but if it's one particular skill or hobby that I choice, I generally concentrate on the "perfection" a lot.

[Creepy-Guest]

Perfectionist ENFP here.

My insides turn inside out if I don't get things just right.
Can't watch my daughter do arts and crafts cuz I keep wanting to fix it.
And when going through other people's works, all I can think about is how it could have been done so much better. In fact, most of my study time is spent editing the material I'm supposed to study.

ann

[Creepy-Guest]

Perfectionist ENFP here.

My insides turn inside out if I don't get things just right.
Can't watch my daughter do arts and crafts cuz I keep wanting to fix it.
And when going through other people's works, all I can think about is how it could have been done so much better. In fact, most of my study time is spent editing the material I'm supposed to study.

ann

[Slacker]

I am not a perfectionist. Very few things seem to be worth that level of effort to me.

My ISTp husband is just like Rocky - if he's working on his race car it's amazing how precise and careful he is. If he's doing something he isn't into, assuming he does it at all, he does not try to be precise or perfect.

[Hugo]

Let's give a round of applause to Hugo for stating the obvious that has next to nothing to do with this topic.

Of course it has something to do with the topic. You said is there a link between introversion and perfectionism.

My answer basically brings an end to your question because there is a link between extroversion and perfectionism.

[Gilly]

There is no link between extroversion and perfectionism, you tool. There's a link between perfectionism and those two types, who happen to be extroverts. That says diddly about any other extrovert.

[Hugo]

There is no link between extroversion and perfectionism, you tool. There's a link between perfectionism and those two types, who happen to be extroverts.

You have apparantly contradicted yourself.

[Raver]

There is no link between extroversion and perfectionism, you tool. There's a link between perfectionism and those two types, who happen to be extroverts. That says diddly about any other extrovert.

Well, being an ENFP, I tend to be a perfectionist in useless things that don't matter and then not care about things that really do matter.

I have an ESTP friend that is a perfectionist but inane little things.

I think the question is the types that get bothered by little details will be perfect in useless things and the types that like little details will be perfect in the things they like.

I think the link between introversion and perfectionism has to do mainly do with how introspective you are of yourself. So an Introverted feeler might fall into this.

[anndelise]

Since perfectionism seems to require introspection of some sort, how the perfectionism shows up would probably be dependant on which introverted function is being used. ie Fi, Ti, Si, Ni

Fi might attempt perfection in internal harmony
Ti might attempt perfection in the internal technicalities (?)
Si might attempt perfection regarding concrete details
Ni might attempt perfection regarding symbols/words/meanings

Even if the above list is wrong, each type has the potential for perfectionism. My belief is, signs of perfectionism would be in specific areas, according type.

[Cone]

Personality traits such as perfectionism are usually found to be situationally-dependent or even as far as mood-dependent. Like for example, I am anal about grammar and spelling, but anywhere else, I am quite the non-perfectionist.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Wouldnt that be weird to be anal about anal. I wonder if Freud was... hehe.

[Joy]

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

[Creepy-]

Hi, my name is Aleesha and I'm an alcoho-- I mean perfectionist! Or maybe it's OCD?

My room is a mess but I compulsively straighten piles, line up glasses, don't let the plates get mixed up (all the similar ones need to be together), the bowls need to be stacked with the larger ones towards the bottom, playing cards need to be perfectly aligned.

I also compulsively wash my hands when getting out of bed, after going outside or after touching food.

If I make one mistake in a handwritten assignment, I have to start it again.

There are many other things but they're undoubtably on the OCD side

[Joy]

I was an EXTREME perfectionist during my Adderall misadventure. I overfocused to the point of never getting anything done.

[Creepy-]

I was an EXTREME perfectionist during my Adderall misadventure. I overfocused to the point of never getting anything done.

The bowels of OCD can feature paralyzing compulsions and/or paralyzing paranoia. Particularly common reaction to stimulant medication in ADD/ADHD patients with high intelligence.

[Joy]

yeah, sucks though

[Gilly]

There is no link between extroversion and perfectionism, you tool. There's a link between perfectionism and those two types, who happen to be extroverts.

You have apparantly contradicted yourself.

Hey, try reading closely, and you'll see that I've contradicted (and disproven) you.

[Hugo]

You're going to have to explain what you mean, otherwise I see you contradicting yourself. Besides an ENFp has already said they are a perfectionist.

[Gilly]

The fact that two specific extroverted types are labelled as "perfectionists" does not in any way imply that other extraverts share this tendency. Is that black-and-white enough for you?

[Hugo]

Are you saying that all introvert types are perfectionists?

If so, my guess is that ISFjs and ISTjs are not perfectionists.

[FDG]

The fact that two specific extroverted types are labelled as "perfectionists" does not in any way imply that other extraverts share this tendency. Is that black-and-white enough for you?

It's not black and white, but for debating purposes, it's better to refer to the statistically predominant tendency.

[anndelise]

The fact that two specific extroverted types are labelled as "perfectionists" does not in any way imply that other extraverts share this tendency.

The alternate could be said as well...
The fact that a few introverted people claim to be perfectionists does not in any way imply that all introverts share this tendency.

Basically, an idea was put out, that perfectionistic tendencies and introverts may be linked. Turns out, that extroverts may have perfectionistic tendencies as well. This then would suggest that perfectionistic tendencies is not linked with introverts, but perhaps linked with something else...something that introverts and extroverts share.

[Gilly]

Oy vey...

Ok.

FDG: No, you cannot imply, simply because two extroverts are labelled specifically as perfectionists, that this might apply to other extroverts. Why? Because there's a specific reason for these two SPECIFIC type to be labelled perfectionists: Hidden Agenda. No other extravert, or any other type for that matter, shares the Hidden Agenda with these two types. Since we know that the hidden agenda is the cause of this "perfectionism," we cannot assume, even statistically, that extroverts tend towards perfectionism.

Secondly, the reason I proposed a connection between unhealthy introversion and perfectionism is because there seems to be a link between the two, pertaining to wanting to the "take as much time as is needed" attitude, whereas an unhealthy extroverted attitude would imply exaggerated brash behavior. The way I see it, if an unhealthy introvert took all the time that they see necessary to do something, and yet still failed, they might be at a loss to see why exactly they failed. Do you see the connection?

anndelise: I was not inferring this connection based on the claims of a few, but rather the typological definition of introversion.

[Creepy-]

Ok, hidden agendas....

ENFp/ESFp: to know (Te) - this can conceivable lead to perfectionism at least in an intellectual domain.

ENTp/ESTp: to be loved (Fe) - this can conceivably lead to perfectionism if they feel they can get approval through affection.

ESFj/ESTj: to be perfect (Ne) - enough said.

6/8 extroverts could conceivably be perfectionists based only on the hidden agenda.

[Joy]

ENTp/ESTp: to be loved (Fe) - this can conceivably lead to perfectionism if they feel they can get approval through affection.

whateva! that's not our style

[Creepy-]

ENTp/ESTp: to be loved (Fe) - this can conceivably lead to perfectionism if they feel they can get approval through affection.

whateva! that's not our style

Oi! Don't take it personally! Note the IF, for a start, also the bit that says CONCEIVABLY. And it is your hidden agenda if you are in fact an ENTp. I was trying to make a point.

[Joy]

your post sounded so cute until you said "if" (and I wasn't upset by this hidden agenda related accusation)

[Creepy-]

Oh... could you think of a better word there? I had trouble in that part of the sentence. Anyway, I thought you were going to destroy my point

[Joy]

I meant this "if"

if you are in fact an ENTp

I don't care what most of these people think my type is, but I thought you believed in the mythological being that I am (ENTp, the socionics chupacara)...

[Creepy-]

That was the "if" I was referring to. I do think you're an ENTp. I don't understand why other people doubt it, but oh well.

[Joy]

lol sorry dear, I am rather sleep deprived atm...

*heads off to bed*

[Creepy-pokeball]

Another thing about perfectionism is a pattern with abused (sexual, mental, phsycial, overly verbal, etc) children. The pattern is (Socio pattern) that many children under these circumstances will over-achieve later in life because they often feel that they are never good enough and must do so in order to have some slice of self-esteem. I'm willing to bet that perfectionism is tied in with this as well. "If I do not do this perfect or am perfect, I am nothing" sort of mentality. Interestingly enough, 25% of all med students possibly have OCD (my last psych teacher told me that one, I laughed lol... too rich).

[mike_INTJ]

Does anyone else see an inherent link between the two?

The way I see it, introversion is about introspection, taking your time, etc. Introverts, especially perceiving types, like to see all the options and make sure they've got the right one before they move on. In an extreme/unhealthy case, wouldn't this imply a form of perfectionism? I can just see my INFp father brooding over a decision he's made and telling himself that he should've "thought it through" more; something he is CONSTANTLY telling me to do.

Any thoughts?

no.

i think perfectionism can land in any letter.

you can be perfect in all sorts of ways. a thinker might want their decision to be totally right. a feeler might want to comfort more, or whatever they do. I-E - would want to perfect their inner and outer worlds, and so on.

though perfectionism can slow you down a bit.... Louis Tiffany, i think was an E, he could sell himeself really well. but he was a total perfectionist, destroying other people's work because it didn't line up with his own vision.

i can be perfectionistic - however i do stop when i get to a certain point. i like to be compentent in everything i do. so it means seeing the details and seeing what needs to be improved - but i wouldn't call it perfectionism, i would never finish what i started otherwise.

[Gilly]

Ok, hidden agendas....

ENFp/ESFp: to know (Te) - this can conceivable lead to perfectionism at least in an intellectual domain.

ENTp/ESTp: to be loved (Fe) - this can conceivably lead to perfectionism if they feel they can get approval through affection.

ESFj/ESTj: to be perfect (Ne) - enough said.

6/8 extroverts could conceivably be perfectionists based only on the hidden agenda.

Ishy, ANY hidden agenda has the potential to produce perfectionism if it's deprived enough. They all have to do with the self-observed shortcomings of the individual. However, you have to remember that these functions are Hidden Agendas because they're WEAK, and will not always manifest themselves in a desire for perfection. On the contrary, the functions that cause these insecurities are often oppressed in an attempt to get away from the troubling impact that they have on the individual.

The only true perfectionist types by Hidden Agenda, ESxJs, might seek to be perfect in any number of ways; not necessarily by developing Ne. An ExTp, however, will try to get attention not necessarily by "perfecting" Fe, but, as we've seen even here, by doing any number of things using any available function (Se, Fe, Ti, etc.).

Does this make sense? It seems like it might be a little unclear; if you don't quite get it, I'll try to reiterate.

[Rocky]

Ne hidden agenda is about not making poor life choices from the lack of foresight, not neccassarily being a "perfectionist".


And people try to realize their hidden agenda through their two stronger functions...

[Gilly]

Exactly my point. An ExTp will not try to perfect , but rather to get more from others by using / and to endear themselves to that person.

An ESxj, on the other hand, will try to be seen as "perfect" by using / and to bolster the opinions of others of him/herself.