Anyone agree to this?

[Lotus]

This is basically just a summary of what I was saying earlier.

"Allie consistently acts dominant and uses confrontational language in the chatroom. She and Ashton (or Ezra, maybe, I can't remember) were talking at length about whether some random person that came into the chatroom looked male or female (gay or straight?), which to me clearly is all about Se - picking up on the details of a person's external appearance.

She also has this kind of stand-offish way of communicating, like she's intentionally suppressing expression of her emotions to tone down the atmosphere (id Fe). But at the same time she finds ways to subtly express her attraction, repulsion, or disgust with other people (ego Fi).

When I suggested Gamma SF was not such a bad suggestion, she immediately took it personally and demanded that I give evidence. I said she had said lots of SeFi stuff, but I couldn't remember exactly what. (She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data.) I eventually pointed out that it often seems like she's bragging ("I'm all the types"), even if it is just a joke, which it usually is. In response she had zero arguments for ILE, and in my opinion barely even tried ("Well, it's just, you know, I'm more Ne and Ti than Se and Fi"). Very good evidence for Super-Ego Ti, or even PoLR."

So... am I really ISFj or ESFp?
Or am I ESTp like Dee suggested?

Or am I ENTp like I and everyone else has thought so far? Just wondering...

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

Is it okay with him that you post that?

[Lotus]

Is it okay with him that you post that?

Oops.
I should ask first.




I asked him on Stickam just now, and he said yes.
Late, but I did it!

my own subjective observation from the one time I heard you in a stickam chat was that you were loud and confident and very sharp in a similar way to how Khamelion was. It kind of intimidated me . But then I don't know whether this is anything more than you being EP, or if it is even related to socionics at all. Just to be clear though, despite finding your presence in the chat slightly intimidating, from what little I know of you (through your forum posts), I respect most of your views (that thread about the death penalty comes to mind), so I hope you don't take this the wrong way!

This was flattering in a weird way. Why am I flattered????

[Joy]

Oops.
I should ask first.




I asked him on Stickam just now, and he said yes.
Late, but I did it!

What about the people he had PMed? (If he sent that PM to them but not you, that is.)


Bleh, anyways... I'm not giving a type opinion here, just asking a question: If the top choices are ILE and SEE, why aren't more people suggesting that SLE is a possibility?

Now for my opinion: She seems Fe/Ti > Te/Fi.

The attention that's put on eating and resting in people's interactions with her (that I've seen) suggests that she has weak Si. I haven't seen enough to decide whether I think it makes more sense in her super ego or super id, but I don't think that it makes sense as her 7th function (because someone with Si for their 7th function wouldn't have much patience with those types of suggestions).

[strrrng]

Do you think you could possibly say something constructive instead of just dismissing it out of hand?

There is nothing to be said; this notion is fatuous. I have interacted with her quite a bit, which is why I seem so adamant. I could maybe accept an argument for ENFp or something, but not the exact opposite of her true type.

[Exodus]

*headdesk*

[Joy]

The attention that's put on eating and resting in people's interactions with her (that I've seen) suggests that she has weak Si. I haven't seen enough to decide whether I think it makes more sense in her super ego or super id, but I don't think that it makes sense as her 7th function (because someone with Si for their 7th function wouldn't have much patience with those types of suggestions).

What do you think of this, thehotelambush?

[Exodus]

What do you think of this, thehotelambush?

In what ways does she pay attention to it? Do you have any examples? Over the course of many hours I have personally seen far more attention given to Se: objectively observable qualities of things rather than her subjective state of well-being and relationship with her physical surroundings.

[hellothere]

my own subjective observation from the one time I heard you in a stickam chat was that you were loud and confident and very sharp in a similar way to how Khamelion was. It kind of intimidated me . But then I don't know whether this is anything more than you being EP, or if it is even related to socionics at all. Just to be clear though, despite finding your presence in the chat slightly intimidating, from what little I know of you (through your forum posts), I respect most of your views (that thread about the death penalty comes to mind), so I hope you don't take this the wrong way!

[xyz]

This little girl can intimidate you guys?

[hellothere]

This little girl can intimidate you guys?

hence the . I'm the cowardly lion. Give me some courage.

[Mediator Kam]

I've always thought you were ISFj personally.

[Ezra]

FTR, I gave an argument in Allie's thread that I created a while ago for why she is not SEE, which included some reasoning as to why she is ILE.

I think she clearly has a preference for Alpha atmosphere, conversation and jokes over Gamma ones. As a side point, has anyone ever considered Alpha SF?

Allie consistently acts dominant and uses confrontational language in the chatroom.

She does this only when being attacked. In fact, Allie reciprocates feelings of others in a very mechanistic way. For example, if I express my undying love for her, she'll be like "awww thanks, Ezra"; she responds in the "appropriate way". This to me chimes weak Fi, valued Fe. This kind of joking she has where she'll say "I love Ezra today" or "we are duals only today" is - to me - a kind of nonchalant way of expressing herself. She doesn't really consider the deeper meanings of anything anyone says as I would expect an ethical type to do; it's as if she has an unawareness of anything beyond what people "actually say". I'm not talking about this in context of "hidden meanings" in "things", but rather in the caes of people and relationships. What I'm trying to say is that based on these cases, I've built up a mental picture of how she'd react in other ways in life, and it makes most sense to me.

She and Ashton (or Ezra, maybe, I can't remember) were talking at length about whether some random person that came into the chatroom looked male or female (gay or straight?), which to me clearly is all about Se - picking up on the details of a person's external appearance.

a) That wasn't me and b) was said random person on cam or just typing?

She also has this kind of stand-offish way of communicating, like she's intentionally suppressing expression of her emotions to tone down the atmosphere (id Fe). But at the same time she finds ways to subtly express her attraction, repulsion, or disgust with other people (ego Fi).

This is all speculation, and I disagree with it. Also, it contradicts the above. How can she be both standoffish and confrontational?

When I suggested Gamma SF was not such a bad suggestion, she immediately took it personally and demanded that I give evidence. I said she had said lots of SeFi stuff, but I couldn't remember exactly what. (She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data.)

Consider Leon, an ethical type in his reasoning. Basically, if you give him even the slightest rationale, he'll probably agree with you. Now compare him to what Allie has just done. She doesn't readily accept this, because she recognises that what you are telling her is - to her - based on absolutely nothing. Said concrete observable data isn't just unobservable and not concrete; it doesn't actually exist in her mind. So of course you'd expect her to do what she did, and I don't think it's conclusive evidence that points towards any type.

I eventually pointed out that it often seems like she's bragging ("I'm all the types"), even if it is just a joke, which it usually is. In response she had zero arguments for ILE, and in my opinion barely even tried ("Well, it's just, you know, I'm more Ne and Ti than Se and Fi"). Very good evidence for Super-Ego Ti, or even PoLR.

No, I disagree. It could just be an unwillingness to discuss at that particular time for a myriad of possible reaons. And what happened to "She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data"? If she can't provide it, why does that make her Se and Te if you, an LII, can't provide it?

So... am I really ISFj or ESFp?
Or am I ESTp like Dee suggested?

Or am I ENTp like I and everyone else has thought so far? Just wondering...

You should talk about yourself more.

Oh wait, what's that?

You don't want to?

Well now, Alpha.

On a serious note, out of pure interest, this is the kind of thing I tend to do. I know if people will suggest things I will argue against it, but I will always throw it out there as a possibility on the forum. In thehotelambush's defence, this could be a sign of weak Ti and weak but valued Te for Allie. It's kind of an insecurity in one's own conclusion to maul another's argument which stands up against one's own (valued Ti), or - alternatively - a true strength in being able to consider others' arguments (valued Te). Yet another possibility is that this is Ne valuing; considering all these different possibilities.

No. I really doubt you are.

heh, unlikely.

Yes, probably ENTp.

Good arguments.

I'm the cowardly lion. Give me some courage.

LIS.

[Ezra]

This was flattering in a weird way. Why am I flattered????

A curious combination of fear and respect. You are a true ******.

I've always thought you were ISFj personally.

How did you reach this conclusion?

[hellothere]

LIS.

[Lotus]

She was expecting me to give her evidence without coming up with any of her own. I was speculating that the type of evidence she expected points to Se and Te values - though I admit I really couldn't come up with anything at the time. Allie still hasn't justified her self-typing, so it has nothing to do with "the particular time".

Sorry for taking so long to respond myself:

Allie consistently acts dominant and uses confrontational language in the chatroom.

Be more specific please. How am I dominant and confrontational?

She and Ashton (or Ezra, maybe, I can't remember) were talking at length about whether some random person that came into the chatroom looked male or female (gay or straight?), which to me clearly is all about Se - picking up on the details of a person's external appearance.

A random user came in (a guy dressed like a woman and singing like one) and while I wasn't really interested in him, while they were leaving people in the chat were asking whether they were male or female. I said they were definitely male. I didn't describe them or anything like that, I just made a comment.
However, regardless of what I said about a cross dresser... what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Commenting on the sex of an individual is not type related.

She also has this kind of stand-offish way of communicating, like she's intentionally suppressing expression of her emotions to tone down the atmosphere (id Fe).

In what way? I doubt anyone would describe my behavior as a suppression of my emotions.

But at the same time she finds ways to subtly express her attraction, repulsion, or disgust with other people (ego Fi).

Oh, that's right!
I'm Fi dominant/creative because I have the ability to form an opinion regarding other people and express it aloud...
No. I believe that most of these examples of attraction, repulsion, disgust are not genuine emotions... No one on this forum disgusts/repulses me... and I doubt I've ever expressed a genuine attraction for anyone on the internet at all. If you took me literally for what I've been saying, I would be in love with almost everyone on here and I'd also be angry/jealous of/hating/bothered by/etc all the people on Stickam. This is not true.

If I am misinterpreting what you meant by this, please clarify.

When I suggested Gamma SF was not such a bad suggestion, she immediately took it personally and demanded that I give evidence. I said she had said lots of SeFi stuff, but I couldn't remember exactly what. (She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data.)

I did not take it "personally" however I did demand evidence. I apologize that it bothered you that I asked for a reasoning behind a typing, and then gave you a hard time for not being able to do that. I'm not sure how you relate this to Se and Te...
I just wanted to understand your point of view.

I eventually pointed out that it often seems like she's bragging ("I'm all the types"), even if it is just a joke, which it usually is.

I responded twice already to you when you brought this up. But here goes:
1. I would never brag about something that both does not exist and also could not possibly exist.
2. It was a joke.
3. Because of reasons 1 and 2, anything you have to say about my "bragging" isn't even worth discussing.

In response she had zero arguments for ILE,

Of course not, I have limited knowledge of socionics, which I thought was obvious to anyone who's ever had a conversation with me.

and in my opinion barely even tried ("Well, it's just, you know, I'm more Ne and Ti than Se and Fi").Very good evidence for Super-Ego Ti, or even PoLR."

Um, I don't remember saying the quote above.
But even if I did, I can't grasp exactly what your point is... Why should I try to argue with you when I know almost nothing about the functions?

I'm weak logic? I think that's a contradictory idea.

Someone who uses logic would surely feel more comfortable using it to make arguments, such as myself. However, without the knowledge that they need to make that argument, what are they supposed to base their argument on? Bullshit?
Sure. Let's bullshit an argument for the purpose of being right in a chat room full of people WHO RESEARCH THE SUBJECT! Now see, doing that would be weak logic.

Perhaps I just don't want to be ignorant.