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Thread: Anyone agree to this?

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    Default Anyone agree to this?

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush's description of me that he sent to a few people via private message
    This is basically just a summary of what I was saying earlier.

    "Allie consistently acts dominant and uses confrontational language in the chatroom. She and Ashton (or Ezra, maybe, I can't remember) were talking at length about whether some random person that came into the chatroom looked male or female (gay or straight?), which to me clearly is all about Se - picking up on the details of a person's external appearance.

    She also has this kind of stand-offish way of communicating, like she's intentionally suppressing expression of her emotions to tone down the atmosphere (id Fe). But at the same time she finds ways to subtly express her attraction, repulsion, or disgust with other people (ego Fi).

    When I suggested Gamma SF was not such a bad suggestion, she immediately took it personally and demanded that I give evidence. I said she had said lots of SeFi stuff, but I couldn't remember exactly what. (She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data.) I eventually pointed out that it often seems like she's bragging ("I'm all the types"), even if it is just a joke, which it usually is. In response she had zero arguments for ILE, and in my opinion barely even tried ("Well, it's just, you know, I'm more Ne and Ti than Se and Fi"). Very good evidence for Super-Ego Ti, or even PoLR."
    So... am I really ISFj or ESFp?
    Or am I ESTp like Dee suggested?

    Or am I ENTp like I and everyone else has thought so far? Just wondering...
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Is it okay with him that you post that?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    my own subjective observation from the one time I heard you in a stickam chat was that you were loud and confident and very sharp in a similar way to how Khamelion was. It kind of intimidated me . But then I don't know whether this is anything more than you being EP, or if it is even related to socionics at all. Just to be clear though, despite finding your presence in the chat slightly intimidating, from what little I know of you (through your forum posts), I respect most of your views (that thread about the death penalty comes to mind), so I hope you don't take this the wrong way!

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    This little girl can intimidate you guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    This little girl can intimidate you guys?
    hence the . I'm the cowardly lion. Give me some courage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Is it okay with him that you post that?
    Oops.
    I should ask first.




    I asked him on Stickam just now, and he said yes.
    Late, but I did it!

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    my own subjective observation from the one time I heard you in a stickam chat was that you were loud and confident and very sharp in a similar way to how Khamelion was. It kind of intimidated me . But then I don't know whether this is anything more than you being EP, or if it is even related to socionics at all. Just to be clear though, despite finding your presence in the chat slightly intimidating, from what little I know of you (through your forum posts), I respect most of your views (that thread about the death penalty comes to mind), so I hope you don't take this the wrong way!
    This was flattering in a weird way. Why am I flattered????
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I've always thought you were ISFj personally.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    FTR, I gave an argument in Allie's thread that I created a while ago for why she is not SEE, which included some reasoning as to why she is ILE.

    I think she clearly has a preference for Alpha atmosphere, conversation and jokes over Gamma ones. As a side point, has anyone ever considered Alpha SF?

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Allie consistently acts dominant and uses confrontational language in the chatroom.
    She does this only when being attacked. In fact, Allie reciprocates feelings of others in a very mechanistic way. For example, if I express my undying love for her, she'll be like "awww thanks, Ezra"; she responds in the "appropriate way". This to me chimes weak Fi, valued Fe. This kind of joking she has where she'll say "I love Ezra today" or "we are duals only today" is - to me - a kind of nonchalant way of expressing herself. She doesn't really consider the deeper meanings of anything anyone says as I would expect an ethical type to do; it's as if she has an unawareness of anything beyond what people "actually say". I'm not talking about this in context of "hidden meanings" in "things", but rather in the caes of people and relationships. What I'm trying to say is that based on these cases, I've built up a mental picture of how she'd react in other ways in life, and it makes most sense to me.

    She and Ashton (or Ezra, maybe, I can't remember) were talking at length about whether some random person that came into the chatroom looked male or female (gay or straight?), which to me clearly is all about Se - picking up on the details of a person's external appearance.
    a) That wasn't me and b) was said random person on cam or just typing?

    She also has this kind of stand-offish way of communicating, like she's intentionally suppressing expression of her emotions to tone down the atmosphere (id Fe). But at the same time she finds ways to subtly express her attraction, repulsion, or disgust with other people (ego Fi).
    This is all speculation, and I disagree with it. Also, it contradicts the above. How can she be both standoffish and confrontational?

    When I suggested Gamma SF was not such a bad suggestion, she immediately took it personally and demanded that I give evidence. I said she had said lots of SeFi stuff, but I couldn't remember exactly what. (She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data.)
    Consider Leon, an ethical type in his reasoning. Basically, if you give him even the slightest rationale, he'll probably agree with you. Now compare him to what Allie has just done. She doesn't readily accept this, because she recognises that what you are telling her is - to her - based on absolutely nothing. Said concrete observable data isn't just unobservable and not concrete; it doesn't actually exist in her mind. So of course you'd expect her to do what she did, and I don't think it's conclusive evidence that points towards any type.

    I eventually pointed out that it often seems like she's bragging ("I'm all the types"), even if it is just a joke, which it usually is. In response she had zero arguments for ILE, and in my opinion barely even tried ("Well, it's just, you know, I'm more Ne and Ti than Se and Fi"). Very good evidence for Super-Ego Ti, or even PoLR.
    No, I disagree. It could just be an unwillingness to discuss at that particular time for a myriad of possible reaons. And what happened to "She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data"? If she can't provide it, why does that make her Se and Te if you, an LII, can't provide it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    So... am I really ISFj or ESFp?
    Or am I ESTp like Dee suggested?

    Or am I ENTp like I and everyone else has thought so far? Just wondering...
    You should talk about yourself more.

    Oh wait, what's that?

    You don't want to?

    Well now, Alpha.

    On a serious note, out of pure interest, this is the kind of thing I tend to do. I know if people will suggest things I will argue against it, but I will always throw it out there as a possibility on the forum. In thehotelambush's defence, this could be a sign of weak Ti and weak but valued Te for Allie. It's kind of an insecurity in one's own conclusion to maul another's argument which stands up against one's own (valued Ti), or - alternatively - a true strength in being able to consider others' arguments (valued Te). Yet another possibility is that this is Ne valuing; considering all these different possibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    No. I really doubt you are.

    heh, unlikely.

    Yes, probably ENTp.
    Good arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I'm the cowardly lion. Give me some courage.
    LIS.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    This was flattering in a weird way. Why am I flattered????
    A curious combination of fear and respect. You are a true Hitler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    I've always thought you were ISFj personally.
    How did you reach this conclusion?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I can see what you're getting at, but I really think there is more evidence for Fi PoLR given her behavior... an example would be what she did in the very start of this thread, posting your PM without even asking. it probably just didn't occur to her to consider your feelings on the matter, and no I don't mean that it was done out of maliciousness, more because of the following:

    (Allie, how much do you relate to that?)

    if she is an Se ego type at all, I think SLE > gamma SF makes more sense...
    Right, I can see what you're getting at, and if this is Fi, this is another thing to add to the reasoning as to why I am SLE and not SEE. However, ignoring the wiki for a moment, do you think it is Fi?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I can see what you're getting at, but I really think there is more evidence for Fi PoLR given her behavior... an example would be what she did in the very start of this thread, posting your PM without even asking. it probably just didn't occur to her to consider your feelings on the matter, and no I don't mean that it was done out of maliciousness, more because of the following:

    (Allie, how much do you relate to that?)

    if she is an Se ego type at all, I think SLE > gamma SF makes more sense...
    Yeah, I agree.
    I'm not Fi dominant.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    LIS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    Laughing In Silence.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Laughing out loud, really? I never knew that one!

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    Allie easily strikes me as intuitive, infantile, and alpha > sensory, aggressor, and gamma.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Whatever type you are Allie, I think you are at least Fe valuing, and I see no problems with you being ILE.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I think some of the arguments for weak Fi are valid, but ultimately insignificant given what I have observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I think she clearly has a preference for Alpha atmosphere, conversation and jokes over Gamma ones. As a side point, has anyone ever considered Alpha SF?
    Please elaborate. Examples of Allie's jokes:

    "i'm tired of loving people, I'm going to start hating people now"
    "i wanna get my 72 virgins"
    "i'm not a racist - i'll eat anybody"

    allieoxenbee: SERIOUSLY
    allieoxenbee: STAY OFF CAMERA BITCHES
    allieoxenbee: i want only them <33
    thehotelambush: what was the context of this?: "i want only them <33"
    allieoxenbee: cause anyone else on there would fuck up my quadra, man!
    -in reference to wanting a full Alpha quadra on camera

    allieoxenbee: i love kicking people

    She does this only when being attacked. In fact, Allie reciprocates feelings of others in a very mechanistic way. For example, if I express my undying love for her, she'll be like "awww thanks, Ezra"; she responds in the "appropriate way".
    Which is exactly how strong and subdued Fe appears to a Ti type.

    This to me chimes weak Fi, valued Fe. This kind of joking she has where she'll say "I love Ezra today" or "we are duals only today" is - to me - a kind of nonchalant way of expressing herself. She doesn't really consider the deeper meanings of anything anyone says as I would expect an ethical type to do; it's as if she has an unawareness of anything beyond what people "actually say". I'm not talking about this in context of "hidden meanings" in "things", but rather in the caes of people and relationships.
    A very good argument for weak intuition.

    was said random person on cam or just typing?
    On cam.

    No, I disagree. It could just be an unwillingness to discuss at that particular time for a myriad of possible reaons. And what happened to "She gave me a really hard time for this, which I think has to do with valued Se and Te - expecting me to communicate with very concrete observable data"? If she can't provide it, why does that make her Se and Te if you, an LII, can't provide it?
    She was expecting me to give her evidence without coming up with any of her own. I was speculating that the type of evidence she expected points to Se and Te values - though I admit I really couldn't come up with anything at the time. Allie still hasn't justified her self-typing, so it has nothing to do with "the particular time".

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    The notion that Allie is a gamma SF is simply retarted - no more, no less. This thread shouldn't even have been created lol. Just because some people don't understand that overly specific behaviors which depend entirely on context don't point to functions doesn't mean we should go doubting peoples' types. Allie is probably one of the best examples of an Ne-ENTp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The notion that Allie is a gamma SF is simply retarted - no more, no less. This thread shouldn't even have been created lol. Just because some people don't understand that overly specific behaviors which depend entirely on context don't point to functions doesn't mean we should go doubting peoples' types. Allie is probably one of the best examples of an Ne-ENTp.
    Do you think you could possibly say something constructive instead of just dismissing it out of hand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Oops.
    I should ask first.




    I asked him on Stickam just now, and he said yes.
    Late, but I did it!
    What about the people he had PMed? (If he sent that PM to them but not you, that is.)


    Bleh, anyways... I'm not giving a type opinion here, just asking a question: If the top choices are ILE and SEE, why aren't more people suggesting that SLE is a possibility?

    Now for my opinion: She seems Fe/Ti > Te/Fi.

    The attention that's put on eating and resting in people's interactions with her (that I've seen) suggests that she has weak Si. I haven't seen enough to decide whether I think it makes more sense in her super ego or super id, but I don't think that it makes sense as her 7th function (because someone with Si for their 7th function wouldn't have much patience with those types of suggestions).
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotelambush
    Do you think you could possibly say something constructive instead of just dismissing it out of hand?
    There is nothing to be said; this notion is fatuous. I have interacted with her quite a bit, which is why I seem so adamant. I could maybe accept an argument for ENFp or something, but not the exact opposite of her true type.

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    *headdesk*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    The attention that's put on eating and resting in people's interactions with her (that I've seen) suggests that she has weak Si. I haven't seen enough to decide whether I think it makes more sense in her super ego or super id, but I don't think that it makes sense as her 7th function (because someone with Si for their 7th function wouldn't have much patience with those types of suggestions).
    What do you think of this, thehotelambush?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What do you think of this, thehotelambush?
    In what ways does she pay attention to it? Do you have any examples? Over the course of many hours I have personally seen far more attention given to Se: objectively observable qualities of things rather than her subjective state of well-being and relationship with her physical surroundings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    In what ways does she pay attention to it? Do you have any examples? Over the course of many hours I have personally seen far more attention given to Se: objectively observable qualities of things rather than her subjective state of well-being and relationship with her physical surroundings.
    This would make sense if Se was conscious and Si was not, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to how other people focus on Si in the things they say to her (you should eat, you need to sleep more than that, etc.), and how she doesn't snap at them for it (at least not that I've seen).

    It sounds like most of the people here have had far more time interacting with and observing her than me though.
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    She is constantly attuned to the Fe atmosphere. She pays very great attention to indirect subtleties in this area, which I believe help her maintain that external emotional flow. Her Ne is also very apparent, as she seems to drift from idea to idea, constantly seeking out things. Additionally, EP is the only plausible temperament. I think people like steve and riddy could clarify not only how her behavior is one of the best examples of this temperament, but how they identify with her, in regards to communication styles and how they illustrate ideas.

    *bullshit*

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    still ISFj for me *yawn*
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I think some of the arguments for weak Fi are valid, but ultimately insignificant given what I have observed.
    I don't think they're insignificant at all. I guess here is a disagreement which will clearly lead to disagreement.

    Please elaborate. Examples of Allie's jokes:

    "i'm tired of loving people, I'm going to start hating people now"
    "i wanna get my 72 virgins"
    "i'm not a racist - i'll eat anybody"

    allieoxenbee: SERIOUSLY
    allieoxenbee: STAY OFF CAMERA BITCHES
    allieoxenbee: i want only them <33
    thehotelambush: what was the context of this?: "i want only them <33"
    allieoxenbee: cause anyone else on there would fuck up my quadra, man!
    -in reference to wanting a full Alpha quadra on camera

    allieoxenbee: i love kicking people
    In my eyes, all this points towards is that she's Fe valuing.

    Which is exactly how strong and subdued Fe appears to a Ti type.
    I'm not sure it is. I see it as the way in which any type who is weak in Fe would react. They're just responding in the way that is "acceptable".

    A very good argument for weak intuition.
    That's how I thought you might minsterpret it. I was considering the ethical meaning behind a given sentence; not the conceptual meaning, as an intuitive type would.

    On cam.
    Right, I can't really answer for this. However, keep in mind that it is an isolated case.

    She was expecting me to give her evidence without coming up with any of her own. I was speculating that the type of evidence she expected points to Se and Te values - though I admit I really couldn't come up with anything at the time. Allie still hasn't justified her self-typing, so it has nothing to do with "the particular time".
    Right, she's just confused.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ILE makes sense. I really doubt ESI.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Why the hell do people even consider ESI to be an option??
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    ILE makes sense. I really doubt ESI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Why the hell do people even consider ESI to be an option??
    Yes.

    IJ, especially, seems distant for Allie.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Why the hell do people even consider ESI to be an option??
    LOL I know. That's why this thread is so STUPID.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Yes.

    IJ, especially, seems distant for Allie.
    I agree.

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    They're been discussing this in Stickam for an hour now.


    Gilly and Dee think I'm beta.
    I could see this.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  36. #36
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    You know, strangely I could see that too.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    What beta type?

    ENFj?
    ESTp?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Types I could see for her (and I don't know her well at all):

    ILE, SLE, EIE
    That's what I was thinking, though I think SLE is the least likely type.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    same.

    btw allie!

    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  40. #40
    Creepy-bg

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    fuck you, allie's a tiger

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