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    Default Warning: Likely to be Uncomfortable Topic!

    Uncomfortable topic but it has been said at an INTP site that INTp, INTj and ISTj are the types most likely to be racist based on myers briggs research.

    Thoughts?

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    First thought: MB is a load of crap

    Second Thought: Ti is critical, but it's not incredibly biased like you're suggest it is; in fact, I'd go so far as to say that Ti is the least biased Judging function. After all, it's all about logic, and racism is irrational. I would think Te, which is more openly critical and less reflective, would be more prone to racism.

    Some of the most racist people I know (including my ENTj mother) aren't even aware of the fact that they're racist. Some will tell you outright that they despise racism. It's entirely subconcsious, for most people.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Default Re: Warning: Likely to be Uncomfortable Topic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Uncomfortable topic but it has been said at an INTP site that INTp, INTj and ISTj are the types most likely to be racist based on myers briggs research.

    Thoughts?
    That makes no sense.

    Depending on whether one assumes these MBTI types to be equivalent to socionics INTp, INTj and ISTj, all they would have in common is strong or . In that case, why not ISTp, too? Or ESTj and ENTj, for that matter?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    You sure he wasnt talking out of his ass? Ive never read that from MBTI stuff so either I missed something or the story teller is full of crock and wrongfully justifying his thoughts externally =p

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    How do they actually measure racism?
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    People delve way too much into this shit. Socionics and MBTI are merely theories. They cannot explain racism and global issues. Stop over analyzing and stop trying to use a simple tool where it does not belong.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    ^^^ yay.

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    Wouldn't it be strange if some of this stuff were actually true? I mean, it's easy to just discredit this kind of stuff, but one never really knows for sure...
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Come now, that is an absurd idea. Some one asked me which type was more likely to go bald the other day.

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    Ok, but WHY is it absurd? And don't give me the common sense answer, either.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    A. Many other factors preside over this single thought.
    B. No conclusive connection figured at the point in time.

    Show the relation as true and strong... if not, waste of time.

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    Because trying to segregate such things into 16 categories is insane. One cannot be BORN racist, you must be made racist. If you wanted to be really vague I’m sure you could cut it down to a few types that prone irrationalizing things of this nature, but even then I would highly doubt it’s accuracy. We can only speculate, and of what use is that?

    Is it not decided that we cannot change our type? So should it not make sense that things related to type cannot be as subjective and small as racism?

    Is this common sense? Hmm, I think it might be. But what other answer is there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Ok, but WHY is it absurd? And don't give me the common sense answer, either.
    It's obsurd because I hate Jews, Mexicans, Africans, and Asians... and I'm none of the types listed above. :wink:


    (...I don't have to mention that the above was a joke, right? Mystic got attacked when he joked about this, though...)


    Actually, I don't think it's absurd. I could definatly see some types, such as thinkers or whatever, more easily slide into rasicm, although cultural influences would affect this. I can't really see more ISFps than INTps turning into racists.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Racism is multi-leveled. The acceptance of a racial thought is enabling of it as well. So, you can see how Fi and Fe can equally be tied to racism. I'll show an example with an Fe:

    X person: Racist remark.
    ExFJ: Ahhh, I see. Yeah *laugh*

    Fe is enabling the racism ^_^ instead of saying, "Hey... that is not funny." or leaving the scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    A. Many other factors preside over this single thought.
    B. No conclusive connection figured at the point in time.

    Show the relation as true and strong... if not, waste of time.
    Just like every other conjecture we make on this forum. It's great to think this way, but you should all watch your tongues (and so should I .) It seems to me that we all think way too emotionally. How is this topic any different from "Introversion and Perfectionism" or any of the other topics we come up with?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    It's not all that different universally. The majority of topics seem to have little do with actual science and more to do with being around like-minded folk. I think when I first came here I stated that the same happened to MENSA. It became little to do with getting anything done and more about being social for them...

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    Eh...

    *sulks*
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Sorry =/ I can lie to you if you want

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    really?! then i must be an exception, with my international and inter-cultural friends, the diversity of which greatly exceeds those of my peers' friends. even resisted being 'brainwashed' during university to view other races as alien to mine, even if they're fellow citizens, and even inspired classmates to band together across racial divides to become one of the few classes in my faculty to have great inter-racial relations.

    and anyway, who said 'according to MBTI theory' anyway? what would the reasoning be? it has been my experience, where i am, that types who are dependent on social approval succumb much more easily to racism when senior members of the group advocate racism. in this scenario, types who are indifferent to social approval tend to be resistant.

    although perhaps if the prevalent view is not pro-racism, but the ideology seems tempting to realise a goal that could be seen as salvation to the greater society, it is possible that the types listed may advocate it. and then rely on the majority of the masses who are approval-dependent to adopt the ideology and perpetuate it.

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    Jadae speaks the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    really?! then i must be an exception, with my international and inter-cultural friends, the diversity of which greatly exceeds those of my peers' friends. even resisted being 'brainwashed' during university to view other races as alien to mine, even if they're fellow citizens, and even inspired classmates to band together across racial divides to become one of the few classes in my faculty to have great inter-racial relations.

    and anyway, who said 'according to MBTI theory' anyway? what would the reasoning be? it has been my experience, where i am, that types who are dependent on social approval succumb much more easily to racism when senior members of the group advocate racism. in this scenario, types who are indifferent to social approval tend to be resistant.

    although perhaps if the prevalent view is not pro-racism, but the ideology seems tempting to realise a goal that could be seen as salvation to the greater society, it is possible that the types listed may advocate it. and then rely on the majority of the masses who are approval-dependent to adopt the ideology and perpetuate it.
    This is the type of refutation I wanted. I only suggested that guest's post was true, because you can't just refute something because it "doesn't make sense".
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  22. #22
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Which is why you have to look at multiple sides and weigh them as more true or less true. It is less true due to patterns greater than this from a sociological perspective (and probably other perspectives as well). Sycophant said it perfectly if you look close enough-- it is a nurtured quality. It is biological to discriminate in order to survive. It is social as to what is being discriminated for. If you want to relate it to functions, which is a huge stretch, then Te and Fe are the most discriminative functions as they are judging the external world. But even then... they can also discriminate through compare/contrast motions not to.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    really?! then i must be an exception, with my international and inter-cultural friends, the diversity of which greatly exceeds those of my peers' friends. even resisted being 'brainwashed' during university to view other races as alien to mine, even if they're fellow citizens, and even inspired classmates to band together across racial divides to become one of the few classes in my faculty to have great inter-racial relations.

    and anyway, who said 'according to MBTI theory' anyway? what would the reasoning be? it has been my experience, where i am, that types who are dependent on social approval succumb much more easily to racism when senior members of the group advocate racism. in this scenario, types who are indifferent to social approval tend to be resistant.

    although perhaps if the prevalent view is not pro-racism, but the ideology seems tempting to realise a goal that could be seen as salvation to the greater society, it is possible that the types listed may advocate it. and then rely on the majority of the masses who are approval-dependent to adopt the ideology and perpetuate it.
    This is the type of refutation I wanted. I only suggested that guest's post was true, because you can't just refute something because it "doesn't make sense".
    And you must not assume that people are coming to such conclusions simply because things don’t make sense.

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    Te dominant can be the most bigoted for sure. Good example: both actor and character played by last holdout Lee J. Cobb in 12 Angry Men is ENTJ. (btw that movie lends itself very well to typing...)

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    Cone is right. There is NO WAY to know if this is legit or not. Saying it makes no sense only addresses the assertion that it does. We don't know what research went into these apparent findings, and it is not entirely outrageous if they are true. While I fail to see how Ti correlates to racism, responding with emotional derisiveness at the notion is immature and infantile.

    To the OP: can you link to these findings so a constructive dialogue on the subject can proceed?

    Also, one of the mentioned "racist" type uses Te, so this seems to correlate to logic as a creative or foundational function, although I am conjecturing.

  26. #26
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    "Show the relation as true and strong... if not, waste of time."

    Part of my issue with all of these temperament theories is that they have LITTLE OR NO STUDY shown. It's beyond annoying and I find myself pressed to even care.

  27. #27
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    Actually, I could make a case for most of the functions, but I bet it'd be easier to work in reverse since so many could easily apply. So, which functions are least likely to tie into racism? I'd so go with Ne but I do know one ENFp friend that REALLY hates Mexicans although she states it as an issue with border-crossing pregnancies and lack-of-responsibility-mothers so... not sure what to think of that LOL. What about Se?

    Another issue is how one would define racism. Like I said, an Fe may or may not be blatantly racist but could be one under sociological definition through the use up upholding racism rather than demoting it (passing it, basically), institutions and enabling.

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    I find that people behave how you expect them to. I therefore avoid stereotypes. Anyone can be lazy or dangerous or whatever.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    The Fe-Ti of alpha-beta lends itself to a colder, impersonal form of inclusiveness while the Te-Fi of gamma-delta to a warmer, personal form of exclusiveness. I can see how gamma would consider the thinking of alpha-beta to lend itself to racism because they are tuned to look for the personal Fi as a sign of one's humanity. Fe though is currently the standard-bearer against racism in America. Fi is undoubtedly a better safeguard against racism, but it requires the extra ingredient of actually intimately knowing people of other races, something that doesn't happen often. Which means that when Fe fails, fed by a power-mad Ti as it did in Nazi Germany, that is when the racial shit hits the fan and you have social breakdown. Te-Fi racism on the other hand is more constant: covert, pervasive, and institutional.

    The movie 8 Mile is a good showcase of some of these dynamics, and both the best and worst example of the way racial relations can be portrayed. On one hand there's realistic-seeming interaction amongst blacks and our delta protagonist, whose bonding is clearly Fi, and thus much more persuasive to an audience than if it were Fe. This serves to ground the movie. On the other hand, written into the plot (institutional Te -- Eminem approved but didn't write) are vivid demonstrations of two of cringing whitey's biggest fears: big-dicked blacky taking your girlfriend (calling Eminem's character Rabbit only makes this more obvious and comical -- oh, and throw in a quick, presumably small-dicked fuck scene), and monkey-faced blacky burning down the neighborhood. (and for good measure show some of them dancing in front of the burning house like insane apes) One needn't argue a conspiracy to believe the plot rigged, only a realistic understanding of how large institutions work. (call it an unconcious conspiracy if you like -- or an "understanding" between key players)

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    Two words: Jerry Falwell.


    ... and I think he is an ISTj...
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    One emoticon:

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    http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/jerry_falwell/

    My favorite one...

    “(re: 9/11 attacks) "...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."”
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/jerry_falwell/

    My favorite one...

    “(re: 9/11 attacks) "...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."”
    Fucking Christ. I don't even know how to react to this one.
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    edit

  35. #35
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    It's horrid but it may or not be just one ISTj stance. Plus it disreguards a multitude of factors.

  36. #36
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    cause, like, racists are like evil, you know? like, anyone that says bad things about black people is evil, you know? like, i like black people, i am going to live in a black neighborhood!

    I think that white people are most likely people to be racists. i like to think that most people love eachother.
    I eat at chinese restaurants.

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    no, black people are the most racist people I've known
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  38. #38
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    some can be ^_^ they usually have good reason for it lol (not that I think that is right...)

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    keep in mind though that I live in one of the most segregated cities in the world... and it's not that way just because that's how the white people want it
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    Some black people are hopelessly racists, and almost unforgivably ignorant. A lot of white people are like this too.

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