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Thread: Beta Quadra Types & Group Orientation

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Beta Quadra Types & Group Orientation

    This is something that has recently come into question; that is, the wiki definition of Betas being heavily into group-orientated activities and discussion.

    I'm primarily asking Betas here; what is your opinion of group-related activity and discussion? Is it something you gravitate towards, or rather something you shy away from? If (I think glamourama came up with this) how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities? Are there any running themes in the various situations in which you might find yourself?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I love being part of a distinct circle of friends. It's fun to be part of the drama and I feel like it's the only way I know to get to know people well.

    Not that I'm a Beta.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Cinematic Member Mr Saturn's Avatar
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    I don't like groups of people unless they are who I want to be with.

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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    I tend to shy away from groups of people. I prefer one-on-one interactions or very small groups made up of people I know well and feel comfortable around.

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This is something that has recently come into question; that is, the wiki definition of Betas being heavily into group-orientated activities and discussion.

    I'm primarily asking Betas here; what is your opinion of group-related activity and discussion? Is it something you gravitate towards, or rather something you shy away from?
    Up until oh, say 3 years ago, I entirely eschewed almost all group activity. In high school, I belonged to extracurricular activities solely for the transcript cred (and occasionally because my best friend was part).

    It's only recently (my late 30s) that I've been any significant contributor to any kind of group -- and now it's really only theatre company-related activities. I have resisted getting involved in any other group because of the associated sacrifice and time commitment. This is my one group "thing", and it takes a lot of my limited energy. I also must add that I'm not particularly a good "joiner", as I tend to refuse going along. I'm not all that self-sacrificing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities?
    I'm not sure what you mean in terms of "group activity changes".

    I rather dislike the idea of "scheduled itineraries" and so have never seriously considered going on group tours or vacations. Can't stand the idea of trolling around en masse and listening to canned schpiel with a bunch of random strangers. I like to be free to explore things and roam at my own pace and in my own time frame. I really prefer not to be on any timetable or tied to any schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Are there any running themes in the various situations in which you might find yourself?
    I need time away from people and the group to decompress alone. I have found sometimes that I experience a buildup of tension when I can't seem to get enough time away -- where I become moody and may occasionally establish distance through some form of conflict or emotional outburst.

    I also tend to see very clearly any troublesome spots and inefficiencies in groups, but don't want to be always responsible for fixing them. I'm also extremely irritated by sheer incompetency! It seems that myself and a couple of my friends always tend to get stuck with the Lion's share of duties, simply because we can identify what needs to get done and do it rather than farm it out to be done half-assedly.
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    I prefer a sizable group to just 1-2 people. It's more interesting and less tiring (as long as I already know the people).

    I don't much like discussions in general, but I particularly dislike group discussions, with people always butting in.

    As far as activities go, group is better, the more the merrier.
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post

    Can't stand the idea of trolling around en masse and listening to canned schpiel with a bunch of random strangers.
    Hahaha. This sounds like a nightmare to me! And I totally agree with the rest of your post.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean in terms of "group activity changes".
    Read the sentence again and take out the bracketed bit about glamourama. Sorry, I didn't make it clear enough. You've just not understood what I've asked, that's all. Start the sentence with "If how group activity changes..." and you'll see what I'm asking.
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    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm primarily asking Betas here; what is your opinion of group-related activity and discussion? Is it something you gravitate towards, or rather something you shy away from?
    I shy away definitely, I'm a compete recluse. Group situations can be very intimidating for me. I prefer to sit back and observe and do things on my own. Being in a group makes me feel like I have way too much pressure on my shoulders, I feel like I have to be perfect and make everyone happy and that's just to much work. Plus their is the added anxiety of conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    If (I think glamourama came up with this) how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities? Are there any running themes in the various situations in which you might find yourself?
    #1. When the group activity changes from situation to situation... hm, this sometimes brings up confusion, or anxiety, or it can sometimes make things rather interesting depending on the situation and how it changes.

    #2. I prefer group activities when they involve my friends, and the people I love and care
    about. I'll definitely have no problem getting involved then. I have a lot of trouble working with a group of strangers as it takes me a while to open up. I like groups that have good leaders that direct me, and people who can work together effectively and efficiently. I want everyone to be able to do their own part... I don't want to be left doing everyone else's work.

    #3. I stray from group activities then things get heated... this can be really upsetting for me because I'm SO sensitive to any kind of social atmosphere, and people's feelings. It bothers me a LOT when conflict arises and I'll usually try to fix things up quick before they start going down hill (I'm usually pretty good at being the groups counselor, and I have no problem taking on this role).

    #4. Running themes? I'm usually the quiet elusive one in the group who takes commands from the leader, and sometimes offers my ideas from time to time. I'm good with the creative stuff, and good with the Ni stuff.
    Last edited by fox; 05-28-2008 at 04:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    If how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities?
    I think I covered this in my previous post, actually.

    My tolerance for group activities is absolutely situational. I'm not patient and I don't tend to be able to field too many differing opinions. Endless discussion without getting anywhere (always an element of nonpaid group activity). Ego battles, dissension, passive-aggression, all the negative elements of getting a bunch of people together to try and accomplish something. The more people you have involved, the more potential for chaotic disorganization.

    I also don't like being shut out of decisions that affect me. Presumption on the part of anyone that I'll volunteer or be agreeable to any motion.

    Basically, I enjoy being part of a like-minded group where we're all pretty much on the same page and things sort of just flow and progress naturally. I begrudgingly put up with tedious elements and niceties to grease the axle. I like structure where it helps accomplish the goal, but not where it needlessly complicates details and hampers creative dynamics and developments. I'm impatient with setbacks and glaring inefficiencies, but reluctant to commit too much of myself. I only partly identify with any group -- it could never be my entire identity.
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Not beta (except for some people), but given that most of the posts here have been from betas, I'll reply just to break the ice for other quadras

    My experience tells me I am not really compatible with group activities. I don't like taking orders from nobody; I don't like giving orders, and I don't like discussing. I also don't like taking the spotlight in tight groups, so oftentimes I end up being the one that never really speaks much, that always barks when told to do something, but that can't actually take anybody anywhere. Which means, a complete hindrance to any group.

    Of course I have been part of teams, and I have been a successful team member. In that case though, the team was always formed by long-time friends that I already was in "sync" with. I didn't feel any sort of membership to the "team" as a separate entity, it's always been only a group of people brought together by friendship. In these cases, I can be a very good team member. Something very important for me to be a good team member: there must be no leader, nobody telling others what to do, not even me of course.
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    Everything that aka-kitsune said.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is something that has recently come into question; that is, the wiki definition of Betas being heavily into group-orientated activities and discussion.

    I'm primarily asking Betas here; what is your opinion of group-related activity and discussion? Is it something you gravitate towards, or rather something you shy away from? If (I think glamourama came up with this) how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities? Are there any running themes in the various situations in which you might find yourself?
    I think this is a very inaccurate stereotype most people have about Fe quadras. I don't think liking a group atmosphere is directly related to Fe or Fi in any way. Speaking from experience, I don't enjoy group atmospheres simply for the sake of having a collective activity (that would be more of the 'so' instinct stacking); I more or less enjoy it when there is an intense and competitive emotional atmosphere that keeps things alive. That, to me, seems to convey beta's motivations more, as it is directly tied to Fe and Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I more or less enjoy it when there is an intense and competitive emotional atmosphere that keeps things alive. That, to me, seems to convey beta's motivations more, as it is directly tied to Fe and Se.
    But that would explain why "group activity" is associated with Beta. The kind of group atmosphere you're describing is more visible than others, and perhaps more readily perceived as a "group", as an unity, than, say, a bunch of Deltas quietly playing poker together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    But that would explain why "group activity" is associated with Beta. The kind of group atmosphere you're describing is more visible than others, and perhaps more readily perceived as a "group", as an unity, than, say, a bunch of Deltas quietly playing poker together.
    Yes, but the point is that anyone can enjoy group activity. It is just the nature with which that group behaves that points towards quadra traits.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This is something that has recently come into question; that is, the wiki definition of Betas being heavily into group-orientated activities and discussion.

    I'm primarily asking Betas here; what is your opinion of group-related activity and discussion? Is it something you gravitate towards, or rather something you shy away from? If (I think glamourama came up with this) how much you approve of group activity changes from situation to situation, in what situations do you prefer group activities, and in what situations would you rather stray from group activities? Are there any running themes in the various situations in which you might find yourself?
    Honestly, wouldn't anyone agree that they prefer group situations where they are with people they are close to and actually know/are comfortable with? It seems like a no-brainer to me, and I actually think the difference between Alpha/Beta and Gamma/Delta is just that Alpha/Beta are two quadras more prone to emphasizing the connection they have with other people by using a lot of external emotional expression and whatnot, which is probably why there are these misconceptions (imo) that Alpha/Beta just prefer really big groups no matter what the circumstance, no matter whom the people in it.

    Meanwhile, I see Gamma/Delta as two quadras that might very well prefer big groups too, only that they will be less likely to outwardly express that sort of collective "rahrah" atmosphere that I see Betas engage in. They'd also obviously gravitate to groups wherein they know the other "members" well enough.

    However, I must say that I do think Alpha/Beta are much more likely to be comfortable with strangers in group situations, only because tends to melt down barriers faster than may be willing to... don't get me wrong here, I'm not bashing or anything. I'm merely stating that will tend to accept those that they do not know quicker in a group, as long as they join in the collective group atmosphere in some way, and are not total recluses.

    My personal opinion of myself in group-related situations depends solely on the people I am with. In general though, if I had to pick some sort of trend I see with my social behaviour, I'd say that I actually gravitate towards 4 or less in hanging out. Too many people come, and I actually get a headache trying to engage everyone at once and making sure that no one feels left out... It's quite awkward, and I suppose that's my concern for atmosphere showing. Anyhow, my ideal number is 3 people, which somehow always works out great for me, who knows why.

    I really like one on one situations as well though; You get to really understand the other person deeper than you would in a group situation, because both are focusing on the other, rather than attempting to focus on everyone else at once. I would take feeling that 'deep' chemistry and connection with one other person over some light interactions with a bunch of people any day. Perhaps that is just the sx-first showing though, yeah?

    I never shy away from group discussion when it is something I am interested in. Even if I am a little unfamiliar with some people in that group, I'll still personally say my opinions, and quite abruptly.

    Some other IEI above mentioned how horrid it is when you are forced to go on tours or "planned"/"fixed" outings with a lot of people such as tours of a new city with a guide. I absolutely DESPISE that kind of group situation as well because it is so, so fake and leaves no room for individual desires and usually is just boring

    In conclusion (wow, longest post I've written in a while), I'd have to say I just enjoy group activities/discussion which feels emotionally "real" to me.

    ETA: Just read the 2nd page and I agree completely with points that Loki and aka-kitsune made. Very good stuff, makes complete sense to me


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Honestly, wouldn't anyone agree that they prefer group situations where they are with people they are close to and actually know/are comfortable with? It seems like a no-brainer to me, and I actually think the difference between Alpha/Beta and Gamma/Delta is just that Alpha/Beta are two quadras more prone to emphasizing the connection they have with other people by using a lot of external emotional expression and whatnot, which is probably why there are these misconceptions (imo) that Alpha/Beta just prefer really big groups no matter what the circumstance, no matter whom the people in it.

    Meanwhile, I see Gamma/Delta as two quadras that might very well prefer big groups too, only that they will be less likely to outwardly express that sort of collective "rahrah" atmosphere that I see Betas engage in. Also, they would obviously prefer to be in groups where they know the others well, and are not complete strangers with them.

    However, I must say that I do think Alpha/Beta are much more likely to be comfortable with strangers in group situations, only because tends to melt down barriers faster than may be willing to... don't get me wrong here, I'm not bashing or anything. I'm merely stating that will tend to accept those that they do not know quicker in a group, as long as they join in the collective group atmosphere in some way, and are not total recluses.

    My personal opinion of myself in group-related situations depends solely on the people I am with. In general though, if I had to pick some sort of trend I see with my social behaviour, I'd say that I actually gravitate towards 4 or less in hanging out. Too many people come, and I actually get a headache trying to engage everyone at once and make sure no one feels left out... It's quite awkward, and I suppose that's my concern for atmosphere showing. Anyhow, my ideal number is 3 people, which somehow always works out great for me, who knows why.

    I really like one on one situations as well though; You get to really understand the other person deeper than you would in a group situation, because both are focusing on the other, rather than attempting to focus on everyone else at once. I would take feeling that 'deep' chemistry and connection with one other person over some light interactions with a bunch of people any day. Perhaps that is just the sx-first showing though, yeah?

    I never shy away from group discussion when it is something I am interested in. Even if I am a little unfamiliar with some people in that group, I'll still personally say my opinions, quite abruptly.

    Some other IEI above mentioned how horrid it is when you are forced to go on tours or "planned"/"fixed" outings with a lot of people such as tours of a new city with a guide. I absolutely DESPISE that kind of group situation as well because it is so, so fake and leaves no room for individual desires and usually just is boring

    In conclusion (wow, longest post I've written in a while), I'd have to say I just enjoy group activities/discussion which feels emotionally "real" to me.
    This is exactly correct. There shouldn't be anymore posts in this thread lol.

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Everything that aka-kitsune said.
    Ack! Did I take the thoughts right out of your mind?? :wink:

    I guess I should also add that when a group IS actually composed of like-minded people I feel comfortable with (right now this is actually a smaller subset of my theatre company peeps), I can allow myself to totally let go and get really raucous and silly. It's been interesting getting involved with Company activities because I notice I can feel totally at home when a sizable number of my fave people are around, but then totally lost and reserved when it's just members that I'm lesser acquainted with.

    A matter of formality vs. informality. I prefer informality, but it still takes me a while to warm to new people each time we get a new influx. As a matter of fact, I've been identified as an "insider" due to my core membership. I hear we're a bit intimidating.

    There's also people who feel a bit "chilly" to me and I tend to feel guarded around them until I become more familiar with the particularities of their personality. I also might want to feel more comfortable with certain people, but feel there may be some kind of barrier to closer interaction. Some people I just can't really "read" too well and tend to feel somewhat awkward when I can't establish a baseline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Ack! Did I take the thoughts right out of your mind?? :wink:

    I guess I should also add that when a group IS actually composed of like-minded people I feel comfortable with (right now this is actually a smaller subset of my theatre company peeps), I can allow myself to totally let go and get really raucous and silly. It's been interesting getting involved with Company activities because I notice I can feel totally at home when a sizable number of my fave people are around, but then totally lost and reserved when it's just members that I'm lesser acquainted with.

    A matter of formality vs. informality. I prefer informality, but it still takes me a while to warm to new people each time we get a new influx. As a matter of fact, I've been identified as an "insider" due to my core membership. I hear we're a bit intimidating.

    There's also people who feel a bit "chilly" to me and I tend to feel guarded around them until I become more familiar with the particularities of their personality. I also might want to feel more comfortable with certain people, but feel there may be some kind of barrier to closer interaction. Some people I just can't really "read" too well and tend to feel somewhat awkward when I can't establish a baseline.
    Well it's weird because you articulate it so well. I just find myself nodding continuously as I'm reading everything you write here.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I usually enjoy small groups (3-4 ppl) but in anything larger I get drowned out and go out into my own little world until someone asks the age-old dreaded question of doom, "What's wrong?" ahhhhhhhhhhhh

    In terms of regular social groups I find the drama disturbing. I suppose I have strong Ni and use it to tell ppl not to do stupid things, which they often do anyways. I will deal with someone's emotional bullshit if I care but when someone irresponsibly tortures themself or another person, repeatedly, enough is enough they're not worth my time.... I think I make secret enemies fast because of this, which comes back to haunt me... bastards.
    INFp-Ni

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I'm merely stating that will tend to accept those that they do not know quicker in a group, as long as they join in the collective group atmosphere in some way, and are not total recluses.
    See, the thing with this is that it looks like collective behaviour. As in, you can't even be in the same room as others and not join their group.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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