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Thread: Blunt, Aggressive SLEs and Calm, Cool, Calculating ESTps

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Blunt, Aggressive SLEs and Calm, Cool, Calculating ESTps

    I'm very interested in people's general perception of an SLE. Basically, from the Strati and Filatova descriptions, as well as the functional breakdown, I get the sense that the SLE is neither diplomatic nor particularly cool-headed, and that people are sometimes put off by their loud, forceful presence. However, I've noticed some people's definition of an SLE (such as zenbrat's) have emphasised a different kind of feel to the SLE; that is, a kind of restrained, emotionally and verbally tact individual who tends not to walk in and demonstratively dominate the space around them.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Depends on the individual.
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    My friend John was one of the calm, cool SLEs. Here's a video of him:

    http://aspen.plumtv.com/videos/john_nicoletta

    ...Mike Tyson's also SLE.

    Obviously, Mike Tyson and John are pretty different... Subtypes attempt to account for these differences in demeanor... And I agree with esper--it's important to understand the differences if one hopes to type ppl accurately.

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    Regardless of how intense or laid-back they are, they will always have this 'upfrontness' about them, a sort of concrete present that simply says 'I am here in reality'. Beyond that, specific traits can vary.

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    I am SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm very interested in people's general perception of an SLE. Basically, from the Strati and Filatova descriptions, as well as the functional breakdown, I get the sense that the SLE is neither diplomatic nor particularly cool-headed, and that people are sometimes put off by their loud, forceful presence. However, I've noticed some people's definition of an SLE (such as zenbrat's) have emphasised a different kind of feel to the SLE; that is, a kind of restrained, emotionally and verbally tact individual who tends not to walk in and demonstratively dominate the space around them.
    yeah I know a few really cool ones that I like. they are just really chill. the only thing that sort of worries me about them is that I feel like I can't tell what they're thinking- like they're sort of working things to their advantage. As long as this doesn't make them do anything "wrong," I don't actually care what their motives were. Also, males like this are generally good company for me because they tend to take care of things that I'm terrible at and are pretty good at doing all the aristocratic social schmoozing that I hate.
    I also know a few SLEs who always have their emotions at the "overload" level. They are always getting reprimanded for being too hostile toward people. Whenever I interact with them it's as if I'm not even half way done with my sentence when I see a glimmer of "got you" in the person's eye and then s/he's jumping down my throat for whatever I've done "wrong." It honestly makes me just not even want to say "hi" to them. Also, these individuals tend to seize opportunities to openly "attack" debate someone in a public situation. I say "attack" because it's very obvious to almost everyone viewing the conversation that the LSE is claiming to be defending some noble ideal, but they're really just power tripping and/or responding to another trigger (i.e. emotional transferrence).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella
    yeah I know a few really cool ones that I like. they are just really chill. the only thing that sort of worries me about them is that I feel like I can't tell what they're thinking- like they're sort of working things to their advantage. As long as this doesn't make them do anything "wrong," I don't actually care what their motives were. Also, males like this are generally good company for me because they tend to take care of things that I'm terrible at and are pretty good at doing all the aristocratic social schmoozing that I hate.
    I also know a few SLEs who always have their emotions at the "overload" level. They are always getting reprimanded for being too hostile toward people. Whenever I interact with them it's as if I'm not even half way done with my sentence when I see a glimmer of "got you" in the person's eye and then s/he's jumping down my throat for whatever I've done "wrong." It honestly makes me just not even want to say "hi" to them. Also, these individuals tend to seize opportunities to openly "attack" debate someone in a public situation. I say "attack" because it's very obvious to almost everyone viewing the conversation that the LSE is claiming to be defending some noble ideal, but they're really just power tripping and/or responding to another trigger (i.e. emotional transferrence).
    The underlying gist of your descriptions seems to point to the general trait of SLE's which is that specific type of strategy. It is a very here-and-now tactic that involves constantly scanning stuff (not just sensory, but everything - calculating, etc.), drawing conclusions and taking action. This is simply what they do, and it can sometimes come off as cold or selfish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    the general trait of SLE's which is that specific type of strategy. It is a very here-and-now tactic that involves constantly scanning stuff (not just sensory, but everything - calculating, etc.), drawing conclusions and taking action. This is simply what they do, and it can sometimes come off as cold or selfish.
    yeah, i like that description.
    I guess one way to think about the differences between these SLE's is the extent to which the SLE (overtly) benefits from his tactics and/or the extent to which it negatively (or positively) affects others involved. So, my latter example is of an SLE who, to me, appears overtly self-beneficial and somewhat harmful to others. The former isn't.
    Last edited by Ritella; 05-28-2008 at 11:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella
    yeah, i like that description.
    I guess one way to think about the differences between these LSE's is the extent to which the LSE (overtly) benefits from his tactics and/or the extent to which it negatively (or positively) affects others involved. So, my latter example is of an LSE who, to me, appears overtly self-beneficial and somewhat harmful to others. The former isn't.
    gotcha. btw, you have a typo. this is why I dislike the three-letter types lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    gotcha. btw, you have a typo. this is why I dislike the three-letter types lol.
    haha. ok sorry, thanks, i'll correct it...
    yeah i have to remember to unscramble the letters each time otherwise i just space and write whatever random three letter combination pops into my head first. GJH type?

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    The SLEs I know are all pretty similar. They have that direct, 'here and now' look that makes you feel like they don't miss much of what's going on externally, but they can't see what's going on inside. They expect openness and honesty from you, and yet it's very hard to read them, like Ritella was saying. So you feel like they have complete control of the situation and they're calling all the shots.

    I don't know any 'calm and cool' SLEs. They appear to have insane amounts of energy and rarely sit still. I wouldn't call them calculating - they seem pretty upfront if they have a problem with someone. The ones I know aren't physically aggressive at all - but they seem to be able to diminish their opponents to nothingness with a disdainful look and a barbed one-liner.

    My SLE friends usually do the initiating as far as activities go, but they don't like being taken for granted - they expect other people to pitch in. If they feel like people aren't doing their share or just coasting along, they have no qualms about dropping everything so that chaos ensues and people appreciate how integral their presence is to the situation.

    They don't mind shyness, but they hate sneakiness. If you're upfront with them, they can be very kind about helping you out.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    SLE's are very hard to read. you can't tell what they are thinking or feeling. i've known both types of them. my ex weas the calm cool type; most people liked him. SLE can identify people's needs very easily, but not their feelings.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    gotcha. btw, you have a typo. this is why I dislike the three-letter types lol.
    And you can't typo ESTJ and ESTP?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    SLE's are very hard to read. you can't tell what they are thinking or feeling. i've known both types of them. my ex weas the calm cool type; most people liked him. SLE can identify people's needs very easily, but not their feelings.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that we may have a couple of SLEs in our theatre company at present. Well, one for sure at least. That calm "chillness" really baffles me. I just can't read them at all. Very little reactivity that I can utilize. And I guess they're more the SLE-Ti type...?

    In fact, this is probably the thing about the much-vaunted IEI-SLE duality that I can't seem to really comprehend. In a sense, their remoteness somewhat intrigues me, but I also find it rather frustrating to be held at arms' length and have no emotional cues to go on to gauge someone's regard for me. Reaction is feedback; I really need that kind of content to feel comfortable with someone. Almost imperceptible ripples on the surface and the enigmatic smile just aren't enough.

    I guess I really look for genuinely demonstrative behavior from friends and prospective romantic interests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I'm coming to the conclusion that we may have a couple of SLEs in our theatre company at present. Well, one for sure at least. That calm "chillness" really baffles me. I just can't read them at all. Very little reactivity that I can utilize. And I guess they're more the SLE-Ti type...?
    The thing is, I don't see "chilledness" in any SLE description - even in the subtype descriptions - nor in the SLE celebrities typed on Rick's site (right or wrong). A distinction between "chilled" and "calm" has to be made; they are not the same thing. I see chilled as a kind of unfocused attitude towards life; chilled people are calm, but calm people aren't necessarily chilled. For example, what about an externally calm person who is burning with rage inside? Or someone who has a calm, methodical, systematic way of single-handedly executing twenty people? Both people are hardly chilled.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I'm coming to the conclusion that we may have a couple of SLEs in our theatre company at present. Well, one for sure at least. That calm "chillness" really baffles me. I just can't read them at all. Very little reactivity that I can utilize. And I guess they're more the SLE-Ti type...?

    In fact, this is probably the thing about the much-vaunted IEI-SLE duality that I can't seem to really comprehend. In a sense, their remoteness somewhat intrigues me, but I also find it rather frustrating to be held at arms' length and have no emotional cues to go on to gauge someone's regard for me. Reaction is feedback; I really need that kind of content to feel comfortable with someone. Almost imperceptible ripples on the surface and the enigmatic smile just aren't enough.

    I guess I really look for genuinely demonstrative behavior from friends and prospective romantic interests.
    ah well infp Fe is going to tickle the fancy of the SLE quite well....they crave it. just turn on your creative and they'll be putty in your hands

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    A distinction between "chilled" and "calm" has to be made; they are not the same thing. I see chilled as a kind of unfocused attitude towards life; chilled people are calm, but calm people aren't necessarily chilled. For example, what about an externally calm person who is burning with rage inside? Or someone who has a calm, methodical, systematic way of single-handedly executing twenty people? Both people are hardly chilled.
    I'm using "chillness" in the sense of cool demeanor here. In terms of a temperature metaphor... not warm nor hot, but a bit on the chilly side. I just can't sense any real receptiveness when I *ping* them with a shot over the bow.

    Calm certainly can indicate hidden malevolence. I also tend to sometimes interpret remoteness as withholding evidence. A frustration tactic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    ah well infp Fe is going to tickle the fancy of the SLE quite well....they crave it. just turn on your creative and they'll be putty in your hands
    Eh. Maybe they're not SLE or I'm using the wrong kind of . The reaction I usually receive is slight bemusement.

    Either way, I'm not inclined to always be the only one in any dyad expressing reaction. Makes me feel too self-conscious and all out on the exposed limb by myself. I just really don't do well with restrained people. Kind of a comparison thing, where I need to feel some kind of mutual external emotional atmosphere.
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Eh. Maybe they're not SLE or I'm using the wrong kind of . The reaction I usually receive is slight bemusement.

    Either way, I'm not inclined to always be the only one in any dyad expressing reaction. Makes me feel too self-conscious and all out on the exposed limb by myself. I just really don't do well with restrained people. Kind of a comparison thing, where I need to feel some kind of mutual external emotional atmosphere.
    i see your point. SLE is only restrained at first. they kinda survey things so they can observe and make determinations on the power and will of others. once they have determined this, they become much more social and active. if you use your Fe while they are in the restraint phase, they will notice you. once they have a handle on you and others, they'll be the ones to come to you, trying to open you up. ;-)

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post

    I don't know any 'calm and cool' SLEs.

    maybe Chris Cornell? i think the consensus is that he's ESTp. I'm not sure though..

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=84OsEVq_xDg

    hes hot btw
    Last edited by Ms. Kensington; 05-30-2008 at 12:27 AM.

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    Aka-kitsune is a Ni-INFp, so maybe she would prefer dealing with a Se-ESTp. They're usually more "stereotypically" ESTp in the sense of being similar to the MBTI description: extraverted, sociable, not particularly "chill", a bit hyper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Aka-kitsune is a Ni-INFp, so maybe she would prefer dealing with a Se-ESTp. They're usually more "stereotypically" ESTp in the sense of being similar to the MBTI description: extraverted, sociable, not particularly "chill", a bit hyper.
    Er... I'm actually more likely an INFp-Fe.
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    I just can't sense any real receptiveness when I *ping* them with a shot over the bow.
    Okay I realize this post is going to be a bit long and dorky (and probably a big DUH to those of you who are cool and smart as I am), but I just believe that people need to hear this in life more than anything else, especially all you 20somethings that want a relationship 'to work.'

    A cold, calculating person isn't going to respond well with your Fe arrow because everybody is looking for more of the same. People that appear submissive really don't want to be dominated. (esp. since I'm the one that usually has as many 'I want to pwn you' fantasies as much as 'I want to be pwned.')

    So if somebody that seems cold and logical I'm not so sure that means they want to be hit the Fe arrow. It's kind of like saying, Water will make Fire stronger instead of killing it. But I feel it's more of what they need not want, you know? It's how I feel about heterosexuality. Nobody really wants to do it, but hey- gotta make babies somehow, so yay differences! (I'm not being serious it was just a joke, relax people...)

    I realize that for an actual *relationship* to work, differences are needed- but it actually has nothing to do with how you feel about the person. It's just common sense- you simply want somebody to do what you can't. So you have to compromise; it's a constant balance of sameness and differences which is what this whole thing is about. (Come on, almost every other thread is whining about if you like people that are more same or different... Whether indirectly or directly, that is what everybody is bitching about.)

    For raw 'I really like you!' emotion (and I'm not going to back down on this) you are going to love people the more they are like you. Even if seems awkward or weird at first, you know that's the only way true understanding can come in.

    Differences bring stability and balance whereas sameness brings erotica and love. There will come a time when you just can't do something, and you need somebody else to do it for you. But I would just like to add that you might not necessarily want or desire this or think it's some perfect, yin/yang thing. It's more of a duty and helping humanity as a whole, not just your own narcissistic relationship.

    I'm just saying, there are people that are a perfect fit for me since they accomplish everything I'm unable to, but that doesn't mean under any circumstance that I'm going to love or even like them. (This is also naturally why duality works when we're 50% different and 50% the same....despite the typing of the letters, I believe that's what is going on there.) It's the best of both worlds. They can take care of you without it coming across as there's something wrong with *you.* It's really perfect and magical, even though I know you guys hate that word - but yeah it feels like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I realize that for an actual *relationship* to work, differences are needed- but it actually has nothing to do with how you feel about the person. It's just common sense- you simply want somebody to do what you can't. So you have to compromise; it's a constant balance of sameness and differences which is what this whole thing is about. (Come on, almost every other thread is whining about if you like people that are more same or different... Whether indirectly or directly, that is what everybody is bitching about.)
    I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying here, but I agree that I am always drawn to someone who has a particular balance/ratio of "difference vs. sameness" with respect to myself. Enough difference (I seem to be drawn strongly toward self-confident extraverts) to feel that they'll open up avenues of experience for me, but similar enough that I feel we have sufficient overlap for the kind of comfortable rapport I crave (usually NFs with a penchant for curiosity and insight). I also find that I rather favor someone with a healthy dose of self-abandon, but not so much that they end up as self-destructive.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Differences bring stability and balance whereas sameness brings erotica and love. There will come a time when you just can't do something, and you need somebody else to do it for you. But I would just like to add that you might not necessarily want or desire this or think it's some perfect, yin/yang thing. It's more of a duty and helping humanity as a whole, not just your own narcissistic relationship.
    I think this is difficult for many people, including myself. I have a hard time asking someone for anything when I'm afraid they'll turn me down. Many people don't want to admit their vulnerability. I find a certain quality of male vulnerability and sensitivity extremely attractive. It's that that I resonate with and want to make contact with.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I'm just saying, there are people that are a perfect fit for me since they accomplish everything I'm unable to, but that doesn't mean under any circumstance that I'm going to love or even like them. (This is also naturally why duality works when we're 50% different and 50% the same....despite the typing of the letters, I believe that's what is going on there.) It's the best of both worlds. They can take care of you without it coming across as there's something wrong with *you.* It's really perfect and magical, even though I know you guys hate that word - but yeah it feels like that.
    I think I agree with this too. But it's certainly not common. One of the most compelling experiences I've had recently is where someone unexpectedly showed me understanding and care when I felt hopelessly flawed. It was such a pure sincere reaction, but I still have trouble believing anyone can be that accepting. (I struggle mightily with a deep sense of being unworthy of love).

    It felt like falling and having someone catch me (metaphorically). Something I want SO much, but never seem to be able to manifest.
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Se subtype and Ti subtype?

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