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Thread: Fe dominance and people skills - why do we assume correlation?

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    Default Fe dominance and people skills - why do we assume correlation?

    Title says it all. I don't think people with Fe base have clearly better people skills. It is equally likely for a Te dominant (e.g. Tony Blair) to be extremely skilled with people and for a Fe dominant to suck at it.

    People skill - that's what it is - a skill! It's something we learn as we live. We try and fail. Fe dominants are more likely to tell the difference between failure and success but that's about it. We have to work as hard as the rest of you.

    I myself don't consider particularly good with people (and I'm sure many of you agree ). However, I do notice that my skills are slowly evolving and that strong is a blessing and a curse. I notice each mistake that I make very sharply and I avoid repeating it.
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    Personally I think people with Fe in the ego tend to have better odds of having noticeably exceptional people skills. Their ability to convey emotion and relate to people on an emotional level lends a hand in, well, relating to people, because that's really what conversation is about. However, I do agree that not all Fe ego or dominant types necessarily have good people skills.
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    I've noticed that some ESFj(Si)'s don't read people very well and they try to fix everything by using brute force. Furthermore, some ENFj's are usually complaining about everything and this makes them unable to keep good relationships with others.
    On the other hand, ESFj(Fe)'s are masters of deceit. For better or for worse, they lack foresight and this makes them less dangerous than ENFp's, which arrange everybody as in a chess board. Never trust an ENFp. They are soooo clever!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Title says it all. I don't think people with Fe base have clearly better people skills. It is equally likely for a Te dominant (e.g. Tony Blair) to be extremely skilled with people and for a Fe dominant to suck at it.
    I disagree. In fact, please provide an example. Also, no one is asserting that Te ego individuals are incompetent when it comes to people skills, just that Fe ego individuals certainly don't suck with people.

    It's something we learn as we live.
    What ever happened natural born talent?

    I myself don't consider particularly good with people (and I'm sure many of you agree ).
    Create a poll. I bet no one who was being serious would say you had poor people skills.
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    I think people skills, as in the ability to relate to people, is all relative. We were just discussing this in Alpha quadra. To me, being around someone who is Fe dominant is fun because their outwardly expressive nature appeals to my need to witness the feelings of others and just enjoy myself. subsequently, someone Fi dominant confuses the crap out of me and comes off secretive and fake. That being said, I think it's the "intuitive" ability of Fe/Fi folks to attune themselves to how people feel that is the people skill.

    But where I really want to go with this is that individuals from their respective quadras will naturally have better people skills with others from their quadras. And if you notice, every quadra has people with either Fe or Fi base to help make sure that those quadras don't wallow in a social crapper. Fe base gives us Alpha and Beta types who like to have fun in an expressive and all-encompassing manner, while Fi base gives us Gamma and Delta types whose style of interaction is a little more intimate and guarded.

    Ultimately I think any type can have the people skills necessary to get what they want because it is a skill. It depends on how much you value it. Additionally, people with similar ego functions will have more instinctive skills with others of similar egos. As an ILE, I seem to interact the most instinctively with LII because we value Ne and Ti, so we'll problem solve and speculate for hours. Does that mean we have the best people skills? At that exact moment in time, we do, because we are maximizing our experience with each other. Otherwise? Probably not. Stick us in a group of other alphas? Yup, we'll probably have a blast and be just as effective people people as SEI or ESE. Stick us in a group of Gammas or Deltas? Nope, we'll probably come off as a little retarded and flakey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I think people skills, as in the ability to relate to people, is all relative. We were just discussing this in Alpha quadra. To me, being around someone who is Fe dominant is fun because their outwardly expressive nature appeals to my need to witness the feelings of others and just enjoy myself. subsequently, someone Fi dominant confuses the crap out of me and comes off secretive and fake. That being said, I think it's the "intuitive" ability of Fe/Fi folks to attune themselves to how people feel that is the people skill.

    But where I really want to go with this is that individuals from their respective quadras will naturally have better people skills with others from their quadras. And if you notice, every quadra has people with either Fe or Fi base to help make sure that those quadras don't wallow in a social crapper. Fe base gives us Alpha and Beta types who like to have fun in an expressive and all-encompassing manner, while Fi base gives us Gamma and Delta types whose style of interaction is a little more intimate and guarded.

    Ultimately I think any type can have the people skills necessary to get what they want because it is a skill. It depends on how much you value it. Additionally, people with similar ego functions will have more instinctive skills with others of similar egos. As an ILE, I seem to interact the most instinctively with LII because we value Ne and Ti, so we'll problem solve and speculate for hours. Does that mean we have the best people skills? At that exact moment in time, we do, because we are maximizing our experience with each other. Otherwise? Probably not. Stick us in a group of other alphas? Yup, we'll probably have a blast and be just as effective people people as SEI or ESE. Stick us in a group of Gammas or Deltas? Nope, we'll probably come off as a little retarded and flakey.
    Wow, post of the year. I really liked this, gave a really eye opening perspective on "people skills"


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    People skills make you the big bucks.
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    Tony Blair doesn't strike me as Te dominant. I think SEE fits the bill.
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    what gilly said

    and what mgood said, but i dont think its as relative as he or she is implying

    to me i believe Fe folks are extremely good at reading body language and in practices that people do in the public sphere. In that sense "people" taken collectively an Fe person would be seen as having an advantage in acquiring skills in that area; however everyone has a different level of basic intelligence or whatever so they won't all use it the best way. skill to read external clues very well also doesn't guarantee that the person will act in the most gracious, helpful manner in manipulating the people. But i find that Fe persons are extremely good at this.

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    Sometimes Fe just helps me so far that I know how I shouldn't behave, but I don't know how I should behave. In those situations Fe makes me shy and uncomfortable. And then theres often some ILE nearby who is enjoying himself, chatting and being active. Okay, often this means we're in alpha group, but the same happens in any unfamiar group! I act shy because I'm not entirely sure how to act and Fe doesn't help me at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Sometimes Fe just helps me so far that I know how I shouldn't behave, but I don't know how I should behave. In those situations Fe makes me shy and uncomfortable. And then theres often some ILE nearby who is enjoying himself, chatting and being active. Okay, often this means we're in alpha group, but the same happens in any unfamiar group! I act shy because I'm not entirely sure how to act and Fe doesn't help me at all.
    I totally relate with this. I do think Fe ego types have a better knowledge of when we're annoying people or not though; it's usually easy to tell.
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    person 1 claims:

    one time when i went to the supermarket i held the door open for an elderly woman and then as we crossed through the automatic door, she tripped and fell, at which time i stopped pushing my cart and began CPR.

    person 2 claims:

    when it comes to social events, i am sought after more than most of people. there are even some friendly dogs who do not get as much attention as i do. i am often told that it is my approachable eyes and nonthreatening smile that draws people in. whenever there are outdoor bbqs or high school graduation parties, i am always the first to be invited. i know this because the people plannign the parties always contact me for help with the invitations, stating unequivocally: "person 2, if the signature of your personality is written on these envelopes, people will definitely feel it and be more apt to attend the gathering."

    the dilemma. who is better with people??
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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    the dilemma. who is better with people??
    Person 2 makes people feel better emotionally, and sometimes what people - or some people - are looking for is just someone who will make them feel better.

    Person 1 can help people better in an objective way, but people will often not recognize it.

    It's like with food. What is a better meal, a delicious food with zero nutritional value and that also cost a lot of money - or a healthy, non-expensive food but which does not taste so good?

    Many people would pick the first choice as the "better meal". The same goes for person 1 and 2. Precisely the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Person 2 makes people feel better emotionally, and sometimes what people - or some people - are looking for is just someone who will make them feel better.

    Person 1 can help people better in an objective way, but people will often not recognize it.

    It's like with food. What is a better meal, a delicious food with zero nutritional value and that also cost a lot of money - or a healthy, non-expensive food but which does not taste so good?

    Many people would pick the first choice as the "better meal". The same goes for person 1 and 2. Precisely the same thing.
    idk about you, but, being sensitive to many processed foods, the latter generally makes me feel better.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Sometimes Fe just helps me so far that I know how I shouldn't behave, but I don't know how I should behave. In those situations Fe makes me shy and uncomfortable. And then theres often some ILE nearby who is enjoying himself, chatting and being active. Okay, often this means we're in alpha group, but the same happens in any unfamiar group! I act shy because I'm not entirely sure how to act and Fe doesn't help me at all.
    Maybe this has to do with Se?

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Fe and social skills, sadly, are not the same thing.

    Especially with Ni. Me and my dreamy ass are too comfortable to pay attention to social nuances, and often end up starting a conversation by something completely spacey.

    I think for one period of time I utilized my Fe to pay attention, though. It allowed me a venue for which to understand social ability in a way I don't think all can. I was virtually extroverted; I was involved in everything. It was such a change in me that I think it even jarred my regular thinking processes for awhile.

    Thankfully, I have since returned to my regularly scheduled Ni->Ti state.
    mhmh, it's quite the same with me. I haven't had a long time of Fe-behavior, but I do get my moments. e.g. a few days ago we had a new-apartment party and one group was gathering around xbox, another group was near me. We were chatting and snacking... At one moment I realized I decide on the topic. When I found a topic boring, I somehow turned my attention to someone else in the same group and soon other people followed. I really did not do it on purpose. Also I didn't ignore anyone and I didn't push anyone out. My main interest was usually the person who had talked the least. I was just in a very good mood and in very good company. I was feeling energetic and radiant. When the party ended, people were saying good-bye to me, not to me and my husband. The general atmosphere was exactly like it was my birthday! Then I realized I had done the EIE thing at the party.
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    You can't live without Te, but life isn't worth living without Fe. IMO.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
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    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You can't live without Te, but life isn't worth living without Fe. IMO.
    This could be interpreted as meaning, "Te makes the world function so that Fe can enjoy life".

    Perhaps

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    Are the ability to read and the ability to write correlated?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    mhmh, it's quite the same with me. I haven't had a long time of Fe-behavior, but I do get my moments. e.g. a few days ago we had a new-apartment party and one group was gathering around xbox, another group was near me. We were chatting and snacking... At one moment I realized I decide on the topic. When I found a topic boring, I somehow turned my attention to someone else in the same group and soon other people followed. I really did not do it on purpose. Also I didn't ignore anyone and I didn't push anyone out. My main interest was usually the person who had talked the least. I was just in a very good mood and in very good company. I was feeling energetic and radiant. When the party ended, people were saying good-bye to me, not to me and my husband. The general atmosphere was exactly like it was my birthday! Then I realized I had done the EIE thing at the party.
    it is good to be beta NF :wink:

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    Its common for people to think they don't have good people skills. I wonder how many people think that. Fe isn't the same thing, but it does seem similar to some expectations of someone with "people skills." Fe doesn't = high likeablity or relateablity, but it is in some ways a social tool that's probably really able to be received in a positive light. Though how technically would Fe be "people skills," when Fe types don't get on better with Fi types?
    Last edited by 717495; 11-10-2010 at 03:47 AM.

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    They are good at getting a reaction. I don't consider that good people skills though. Majority of "Feelers" though are better and more natural with people.
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    I've seen lots of cases where a Te-ego has awesome people skills, because they are using Te to relate to people without any Fe or Fi hangups.

    Speaking for myself as an Fi ego, what happens is, I can naturally sense the degree of the relationship between myself and person A vs person B vs person C, sort of sense their intentions and make all these judgements about whether I think they're good people or not. If not, then i approach carefully until I have a better idea. Also my opinion can change with more info.

    I am, however, really awesome i must admit, at fixing relationship problems or social blunders and relating to people. But the degree to which i want to be close to someone and do those things depends on whether I think they're good, sincere people and how much they want to be friends with me. I guess it's the creative Fi.

    On the other hand, a Te-ego will be more oblivious to these things and just relate from a Te standpoint to a lot more people, crack Te-sort of jokes, etc which makes them look much much more sociable.
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    F types are comparatively (next to T types) good at emotional manipulation, manipulation can be to make someone feel mad, make someone feel happy, make someone feel close to you or make them feel ostracised/excluded.

    It's the persons personal make up/health levels/life experience...personality that makes them decide how they do it, or if they want to use it for eg make the person feel welcome or make the person feel unwelcome, happy/unhappy etc.

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    I think Fe is less about being "good" with people and more about interacting with people. Te types tend to find it bothersome when someone talks for the sake of talking without exchanging any meaningful information, for example. Fe types seem to enjoy the interaction even then - I suppose the meaning, for them, is somehow derived from communication itself rather than what's being said. Or at least that's how it looks from the outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I am, however, really awesome i must admit, at fixing relationship problems or social blunders and relating to people. But the degree to which i want to be close to someone and do those things depends on whether I think they're good, sincere people and how much they want to be friends with me. I guess it's the creative Fi.
    I want my Fi creative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I think Fe is less about being "good" with people and more about interacting with people. Te types tend to find it bothersome when someone talks for the sake of talking without exchanging any meaningful information, for example. Fe types seem to enjoy the interaction even then - I suppose the meaning, for them, is somehow derived from communication itself rather than what's being said. Or at least that's how it looks from the outside.
    .
    Yeah. Sometimes the most meaningful things are communicated without words, imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    sort of sense their intentions and make all these judgements about whether I think they're good people or not. If not, then i approach carefully until I have a better idea. Also my opinion can change with more info.
    .
    Is this not true for everyone though? I've seen people with Fi PoLR act in the same way. For instance, they tend to be very careful and particular about who they let into their inner circle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Is this not true for everyone though? I've seen people with Fi PoLR act in the same way. For instance, they tend to be very careful and particular about who they let into their inner circle.
    well maybe everyone is worried about it, but I feel the Fi-egos, being so great at assessing this, are much much more in tune with acting this way and much more elegant as far as controlling the degree of relationship. I feel that for the most part our character judgements are spot on as well.

    Fi-POLRs will be paranoid about Fi perhaps (due to their inability to assess it), and tend to let people into their circle largely based on Fe-validation. That's the way I understand it works, and been true in my experience including seeing how ILE or SLE celebrities carry themselves and respond to others.

    As far as Fe-POLRs go though, in particular the Te-subtype seems to just want to make friends with everyone (probably a manifestation of Fi-HA), but goes about it in a very Te sort of way and not always a great judge of character. LSEs are sort of like this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I think Fe is less about being "good" with people and more about interacting with people. Te types tend to find it bothersome when someone talks for the sake of talking without exchanging any meaningful information, for example. Fe types seem to enjoy the interaction even then - I suppose the meaning, for them, is somehow derived from communication itself rather than what's being said. Or at least that's how it looks from the outside.



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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    As far as Fe-POLRs go though, in particular the Te-subtype seems to just want to make friends with everyone (probably a manifestation of Fi-HA), but goes about it in a very Te sort of way and not always a great judge of character. LSEs are sort of like this as well.
    I would add that it's probably slightly different for +Fi-valuing Deltas and -Fi-valuing Gammas. +Fi expands positive relations, and what you say sounds true for it. -Fi limits negative relations, and its attitude is curbed by mistrust, trying to avoid assuming there's more to a relation than there is. Though what you describe applies to both in a way, they deal with it differently.

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    well maybe everyone is worried about it, but I feel the Fi-egos, being so great at assessing this, are much much more in tune with acting this way and much more elegant as far as controlling the degree of relationship. I feel that for the most part our character judgements are spot on as well.
    This sounds like Ne with Fi too:

    Your strongest virtue is well-developed intuition. This allows you to faultlessly determine the hidden abilities and talents in others, which you accurately point out or compliment them upon. You also try to help people understand their personal problems, often trying to help people feel more positive about them. Your first impression of people is usually the right one. You are able to maintain warm, trusting relations with people. Your feelings for others, both positive and negative are as strong as each other. You are a top class diplomat. You try to help others using your diplomatic abilities to find solutions to often difficult life situations. You help people to avoid humiliation and making hasty decisions that they might later regret.

    ENFp [+] and [-]

    As I find ESIs are often wrong with their Fi judgements.


    As far as Fe-POLRs go though, in particular the Te-subtype seems to just want to make friends with everyone (probably a manifestation of Fi-HA), but goes about it in a very Te sort of way and not always a great judge of character. LSEs are sort of like this as well.
    I try to be friends with everyone, but often find myself disappointed in a) how they can behave and b) I overestimated who they are as people but still think c) why can't we be friends?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I think Fe is less about being "good" with people and more about interacting with people.
    Though I wouldn't call Fe the IM of interacting with people. It's more or less engaging in roles, perceived with respect to the atmosphere around oneself, and using the tool of emotional expression...which is an alleged way to interact with people.

    EDIT: But not saying emotional expression is just for Fe valuers. IXFjs I know have their own strange way of emotional expression, to say the least. It's just used in that way for Fe valuers, as though there is objective establishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    They are good at getting a reaction. I don't consider that good people skills though. Majority of "Feelers" though are better and more natural with people.
    Extroverts are typically better with actual interaction with people than Introverts are. Feelers are typically better sympathizers and more adept at "feeling" things, whether these be people-related or not, since any Introvert can be pretty detached. So you could say Extroverted Feelers are better with people than Extroverted Thinkers in a lot of it, though it does kind of depend on the circumstance or goal in mind, if you call the Logical approach not as effective with people really depends on the person's approach and what he's trying to achieve with people.
    Last edited by 717495; 11-10-2010 at 06:13 PM.

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    I was confused because the LSE I know is very sociable and popular. Now I get it...Te-dominants can be just as sociable as Fe-dominants. They just go about social interaction in a Te way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I think Fe is less about being "good" with people and more about interacting with people. Te types tend to find it bothersome when someone talks for the sake of talking without exchanging any meaningful information, for example. Fe types seem to enjoy the interaction even then - I suppose the meaning, for them, is somehow derived from communication itself rather than what's being said. Or at least that's how it looks from the outside.



    I want my Fi creative.
    Small talk related to Fe? Desire for useful informational exchange related to Te? Perhaps. However, Ti egos are almost stereotypically forward and straight to the point. I doubt any logical has any natural disposition to withstand small talk.

    @topic
    Fe is about relationship management and emotional atmospheric temperament. These people are going to think in terms of relationships and emotions; they are naturally better at recognizing interpersonal relationships and the feelings held therein. Whether or not you would like to refer to this as 'people skills' is dependent on how selectively the Fe ego demonstrates their knowledge, but there is no question regarding whether or not an Fe ego can use it as they process these things naturally through their ego.

    'People skills' come in many different forms. Direct management of people is derived from Se, management of people's physical sensations is Si, management of individual bonds is Fi, management of relations is Fe and so on. None of these have a monopoly on the 'people skills', and are capable of being both bad and good depending on a number of other non-socionics variables, like their social status, upbringing, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    'People skills' come in many different forms. Direct management of people is derived from Se, management of people's physical sensations is Si, management of individual bonds is Fi, management of relations is Fe and so on. None of these have a monopoly on the 'people skills', and are capable of being both bad and good depending on a number of other non-socionics variables, like their social status, upbringing, etc.
    I think this is spot-on. I have only a modicum of socionics knowledge to back that statement up, but just know that you have my unsupported assurances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    I was confused because the LSE I know is very sociable and popular. Now I get it...Te-dominants can be just as sociable as Fe-dominants. They just go about social interaction in a Te way.
    This is certainly true for my father, whom I've tentatively typed as an LSE. He loves talking about the patients he's treated at work, the way his various hobbies are going, the places he plans to vacation to next, the restaurants he eats at, the things that he has read about... He basically just talks about concrete things that he's interested in. I have to wait until he has a couple of glasses of scotch in him before he'll start talking about the people in his life and how he feels about them.
    4w5 sp/sx

    Please, direct all questioning of my self-typing to this thread. Thank you.

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    It's only an assumption .

    No, really! It is!

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    Fe dominance and people skills - why do we assume correlation?
    Cause it's dead-obviously there.

    Sometimes conventional wisdom is just right.

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    I thought that was an MBTI Fe thing, not a socionics Fe thing...

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