Being an ENTp sucks!

[Wynch]

Sometimes being ILE sucks. I try really really hard not to let Fi and Fe get in the way of my ability to enjoy myself and be sociable, but every once and a while someone turns around and round house kicks me in the face as a reminder that, yes, I am ILE, and yes, I do often make social situations awkward with my social retardation. So I spend tons of time trying to open myself up for people because I'm hoping they'll reciprocate so I can get some sort of grasp of what's going on and feel like I actually know people. Instead I basically got everything handed back to me today and told that I come across as a self-centered bitch and why can't I just loosen up and have fun like everyone else does. Needless to say, for any of you ILE's out there, I basically feel like someone ripped out a piece of me in the form of my biggest insecurity and left it on the sidewalk to bleed out. Long story short I was told by my room mate that my first impression always sucks and that lots of people don't like me for it and that I need to learn to stop thinking about things so much and to just relax and have normal conversations with people.

So now I don't really know what to do with myself. I can't be bothered with social trivialities like talking about what my favourite band is because it's something I really don't care about and because I feel like that's so fake. But apparently being genuine comes across as annoying and self-centered (which, in all fairness, I try really hard not to do and obviously fail at). I like to try and relate things back to my own experiences with the hope that others will share their stories, but apparently that's a social faux pas. So my choices appear to be: continue the way I am with the conscious awareness that I'm making people hate me (which in turn breaks my heart) or turn into a fake which will satisfy my desire to please everyone and have people love me, but will ultimately bore me to death and make me feel stagnate and useless.

I hate when stuff like this happens. I always do this stupid thing where I withdraw from everyone and decide to completely change who I am to make people happy, which only works for about a week, and then I'm back to normal and everyone hates me again (apparently). Why can't I be a nice social goddess like IEE or SEE

[Jimbean]

Focus on what you have control of, be honest, and be willing to put forth effort in this area. You will get better over time, and with the more effort you put forth, the faster you will get there.

[xyz]

Stop giving a fuck and hang out with me, god knows I make them faux pas all the time.

Don't change. I'd rather be myself and have 2 good friends than have 200 people who think they're friends with someone who doesn't really exist.


....What IS your favorite band anyway?

[misutii]

What types are the people you're hanging out with? Find some Alpha/Beta Ns to hang out with and your unwillingness to make small talk will be an asset. I don't think it's as simple as Fi PoLR. It might also be that the people you're hanging out with are significantly dumber than you and I don't know if you've noticed this but I've noticed lots of dumb people assume I'm pretentious when I change the subject from trivial bullshit to something that actually requires thinking, or when they're watching Reality TV and I walk in the room and change the channel because I know that if someone is watching reality TV they're too stupid to be entrusted with the responsibility of the remote control (they can't really argue with me in these types of situations because they know I'm right lol)

[ScanDave]

Sometimes being ILE sucks. I try really really hard not to let Fi and Fe get in the way of my ability to enjoy myself and be sociable, but every once and a while someone turns around and round house kicks me in the face as a reminder that, yes, I am ILE, and yes, I do often make social situations awkward with my social retardation. So I spend tons of time trying to open myself up for people because I'm hoping they'll reciprocate so I can get some sort of grasp of what's going on and feel like I actually know people. Instead I basically got everything handed back to me today and told that I come across as a self-centered bitch and why can't I just loosen up and have fun like everyone else does. Needless to say, for any of you ILE's out there, I basically feel like someone ripped out a piece of me in the form of my biggest insecurity and left it on the sidewalk to bleed out. Long story short I was told by my room mate that my first impression always sucks and that lots of people don't like me for it and that I need to learn to stop thinking about things so much and to just relax and have normal conversations with people.

So now I don't really know what to do with myself. I can't be bothered with social trivialities like talking about what my favourite band is because it's something I really don't care about and because I feel like that's so fake. But apparently being genuine comes across as annoying and self-centered (which, in all fairness, I try really hard not to do and obviously fail at). I like to try and relate things back to my own experiences with the hope that others will share their stories, but apparently that's a social faux pas. So my choices appear to be: continue the way I am with the conscious awareness that I'm making people hate me (which in turn breaks my heart) or turn into a fake which will satisfy my desire to please everyone and have people love me, but will ultimately bore me to death and make me feel stagnate and useless.

I hate when stuff like this happens. I always do this stupid thing where I withdraw from everyone and decide to completely change who I am to make people happy, which only works for about a week, and then I'm back to normal and everyone hates me again (apparently). Why can't I be a nice social goddess like IEE or SEE

I've been there so many times. The key is to find people that apperciate who you are. Easier said than done I know. They are out there though.

But screw surface dweller/superficial folks. You are smarter and have a better world view than them.

As far as dealing with that crap. I say learn to see the humor in things, and laugh at yourself and your situation every once in a while.

Oh and its okay to have an opinion about something, and to speak up about it. Don't let anyone get in the way of your discoveries.

[Gilly]

Don't change. I'd rather be myself and have 2 good friends than have 200 people who think they're friends with someone who doesn't really exist.

Ugh.

[Mr Saturn]

That sounds like me before my name change.

I had all the friends at the cost of actually being happy.

Now, I do whatever makes me happy and those who stick beside me get a whole load of awesome.

Just do what makes you happy, if they don't then forget them.

[Blaze]

whoa the curse of ILE. all polr's are not created equal for sure and we got stuck with the worst one in my opinion. others might debate me on this, but to me, relationships and their politics are everything. you sound like me 25 years ago....let me tell you it is a very tough row to hoe without the support of some alphas and betas like people are saying.

lokivanguard is right: first of all don't care. big piece to work up to, very tough because for awhile it will seem like you have no friends and nothing to do.

second of all look for alpha and beta types who appreciate you for who you are. ok but here's the rub:

identifying these people is actually kind of hard for an ILE to do since we are out of touch with our feelings and senses....our "democracy" or sense of "decency" stems from us being basically a blank slate about other people - we treat everybody the same because we see them all the same. we see them all the same because we don't get strong initial body vibes about them in most cases. so then we expect others to be the same way.

but others do not hold these same expectations since they are more in touch with their own feelings and body sensations which clue them into the attractions and repulsions they feel towards others more effectively (as well as how other people feel about them). i say in most cases because virtually the entire socion has something going for them in the sensory-emotion area with the exception of alpha NT's. and, LII is often in a slightly better place socially than ILE because at least they have Fi as a role function, which makes them want to at least not stand out too much. (in close romantic relationships, however, LII is much more vulnerable than ILE).

so this is why we can't identify our enemies that easily and also why we seem to others to have high expectations of them, while at the same time we are prone to committing social faux pas one after another since we really don't grasp the intricacy of the sensory-emotional world. this annoys the shit out of gamma and some of delta.

so i agree with what others are saying....you need to try to pay very close attention to who you flow with. it's hard to do since we want to see everybody the same way, but you have to break free of that and pay attention to how people make you feel. and who you attract. don't try to be friends with everybody or have tons and tons and tons of friends...it's never gonna happen. ILE's are on the fringe, that's our role.

[Wynch]

Thanks guys, you make me feel a lot better

@Jimbean: You sound less and less ILE everytime you write, lol. Effort is for the questions you want to answer, not for making your life better!

@Loki: Sweet, but you're going to have to come out here because I'm trying this new-fangled thing called "saving for grad school" and "saving for a spring vacation". And to be honest, I have my tight-nit crew, but I'm a bit of a social butterfly. I just like to get out and socialize, so it's a bummer to be walking home from meeting new people and having a having what I thought was an interesting conversation to find that my roomie was using the convo to come around to me being a self-centered bitch. Bah. And for the record, my favourite band is Queens of the Stone Age *points to sig*

@misutii: Yes, I tried to explain that to my roomie and his identical twin figured it out, but he didn't. If you don't understand something and I've already pondered through that thing then I'm going to just tell you what I know, end story. Instead I like to adventure into the thing I don't understand. As a side note, I happen to love watching reality TV. The people make me laugh and the people-reacting variable always leaves an edge of the unknown. Also, I cannot accept your opinion on anything because you're from Toronto and everyone knows that people from Toronto are totally out of touch with reality.

@ScanDave: Oh, I definitely don't have trouble speaking up about my opinions. It's more a matter of approach. I approach things from that broad-spectrum, while they want to keep going into the nitty gritties. I just don't care that much, and I want to get into as many interesting subjects as possible.

@Mr.Saturn: That's generally how I like to live my life, but sometimes you run into situations where people haven't been entirely genuine with you and suddenly lash out, which is pretty hurtful. It's really lame when your friends don't turn out to be your friends.

@Sunshine Lively: And I thought I was verbose! But I think you've hit the nail on the head. It is really hard to try and identify which people are most likely telling you true and actually being your friend. That's most of what I was getting at by bringing up Fi PoLR. You can think you're in your own happy world and you get what people are thinking and then suddenly they pull the rug out from under you. And identifying other types...don't even get me started. I'm the worst at identifying people's types. It's easy enough to say "Find some alphas and betas! Have funz!!" and another thing entirely to actually find these people. LII are easy enough for me to find. I'm a university student with an "in" on the tech scene; I catch LII's like flies in honey. Otherwise, I couldn't tell you the types of most people I know.

[Blaze]

@Sunshine Lively: And I thought I was verbose! But I think you've hit the nail on the head. It is really hard to try and identify which people are most likely telling you true and actually being your friend. That's most of what I was getting at by bringing up Fi PoLR. You can think you're in your own happy world and you get what people are thinking and then suddenly they pull the rug out from under you. And identifying other types...don't even get me started. I'm the worst at identifying people's types. It's easy enough to say "Find some alphas and betas! Have funz!!" and another thing entirely to actually find these people. LII are easy enough for me to find. I'm a university student with an "in" on the tech scene; I catch LII's like flies in honey. Otherwise, I couldn't tell you the types of most people I know.

well first of all i don't think i'm verbose, since everything i said had its own meaning. i thought you might find it helpful to hear about the technical details of why it might be harder for you to find people you are compatible with, thus perhaps finding some specific tools you can use to go around such obstacles. but thank you i am glad you got some use out of my post.

also, my feedback was not to type people. my feedback was to pay close attention to how you feel about people and how they feel about you, what kind of vibes they give off and what kinds of vibes you have, and, finally to take your ILE sense of decency with a grain of salt; that is, not to overuse it. also, don't listen to what people tell you. watch what they really end up doing and pay attention to how you feel.

you type people in retrospect; after you have made a diagnosis of "comfortable" "uncomfortable" "unstable" "total repulsion" "total love love love this person attraction".

HTH

[Wynch]

To be honest, I don't feel much about people. I generally like all people unless something happens that gives me a reason to dislike them. There are a few exceptions to this rule, namely the people I have a hard time garnering respect for, but those people are few. I agree about watching people, and I tend to do that, but there are people who are good at masking their feelings in the physical sense as well. Or just giving you mixed signals.

Typing in retrospect isn't something I try to do because I really just can't get a handle on people that in depth. I can only ever see the surface and therefore can't make really adequate judgments.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[zenbrat]

My ILE struggles with not knowing how he affects others in a group. I think he sees a grand vision in his head and just GOES FOR IT! "Let's GO! Everyone, lets do this fabulous thing I just thought of! You will LOVE IT!"

However, other people aren't hanging out in his head... they don't understand that he's just really excited; not trying to be bossy, pushy or self-centered. He is actually very inclusive of others, very democratic and truly wants everyone to have a 'most excellent' time. However, he can't pick up those subtle Fi clues about a persons level of interest and disinterest.

When he starts rubbing people the wrong way, I touch his arm, smile at him a certain way, he smiles back (kinda sheepishly) and knows it's time to stand down a little bit. At that point, I step in to do the INFp 'harmonizing' thing. Before you know it, we're all running off to do the cool thing that my ILE suggested. And, it's always a blast.

I agree with Sunshine Lively... find some Betas. They have the balls to ride shotgun on your adventures. Avoid Gamma... they can be emotionally hostile and very sneaky about it (which increases the chances of that sucker punch feeling you get when someone pretends to like/appreciate/respect you more than they actually do... that really sucks ).

[Cheesy]

Sometimes being ILE sucks. I try really really hard not to let Fi and Fe get in the way of my ability to enjoy myself and be sociable, but every once and a while someone turns around and round house kicks me in the face as a reminder that, yes, I am ILE, and yes, I do often make social situations awkward with my social retardation. So I spend tons of time trying to open myself up for people because I'm hoping they'll reciprocate so I can get some sort of grasp of what's going on and feel like I actually know people. Instead I basically got everything handed back to me today and told that I come across as a self-centered bitch and why can't I just loosen up and have fun like everyone else does. Needless to say, for any of you ILE's out there, I basically feel like someone ripped out a piece of me in the form of my biggest insecurity and left it on the sidewalk to bleed out. Long story short I was told by my room mate that my first impression always sucks and that lots of people don't like me for it and that I need to learn to stop thinking about things so much and to just relax and have normal conversations with people.

So now I don't really know what to do with myself. I can't be bothered with social trivialities like talking about what my favourite band is because it's something I really don't care about and because I feel like that's so fake. But apparently being genuine comes across as annoying and self-centered (which, in all fairness, I try really hard not to do and obviously fail at). I like to try and relate things back to my own experiences with the hope that others will share their stories, but apparently that's a social faux pas. So my choices appear to be: continue the way I am with the conscious awareness that I'm making people hate me (which in turn breaks my heart) or turn into a fake which will satisfy my desire to please everyone and have people love me, but will ultimately bore me to death and make me feel stagnate and useless.

I hate when stuff like this happens. I always do this stupid thing where I withdraw from everyone and decide to completely change who I am to make people happy, which only works for about a week, and then I'm back to normal and everyone hates me again (apparently). Why can't I be a nice social goddess like IEE or SEE

I'm sure SEI's would snatch you up (what I really mean to say is that you'll find people who will accept you for who you are and all the rest are not worth it). You are who you are and it's a shame to change that no matter what's the cause. You can improve and package yourself better if you feel that you can/should improve (with the advice of people who are close to you) but don't force yourself into being something that you're not. It doesn't work and it's not worth it because at the end of the day – you won't be happy if you stifle your real personality or betray your true self all the time (I know what it's like when you're not yourself and there's nothing worse than that). So I say that if you feel like you need to improve on what you can in order to have more friends/keep them around – great! But to be someone you're not – no way!

[Blaze]

To be honest, I don't feel much about people. I generally like all people unless something happens that gives me a reason to dislike them. There are a few exceptions to this rule, namely the people I have a hard time garnering respect for, but those people are few. I agree about watching people, and I tend to do that, but there are people who are good at masking their feelings in the physical sense as well. Or just giving you mixed signals.

mnogood what you just wrote up there is exactly what the term ILE decency means!! that's so funny...that you would say it so succinctly i mean. it means we see people as a blank slate, that we like everybody the same. the reason for it, though, is because we don't perceive the Fi information.

Typing in retrospect isn't something I try to do because I really just can't get a handle on people that in depth. I can only ever see the surface and therefore can't make really adequate judgments.

i hear ya on this....it's this really really subtle thing for us....it takes a lot of practice. the feeling you get from somebody is probably easiest to notice first with your conflict relation, at least from my experience.

[Wynch]

Sunshine, this is why, like I mentioned in another thread, I really enjoy playing strategy board games with people. You'd be surprised how much it reveals about a person. I still have a hard time putting my finger on an actual type, but I can start putting people into general slots.

FTR, I'm feeling a lot better about everything now. I had a chat with my best friend and she explained to me that I can be pretty overbearing at time, but that she understands that it's just my way of pushing past the awkwardness of a first meeting and it settles out a lot after that. She explained that she actually appreciates my steamroller attitude towards new groups of people because it makes it easier for her to open up to the transition between friendliness and the awkwardness of small talk. Made me feel a ton better, that's why she's my best friend <3

[misutii]

@misutii: Yes, I tried to explain that to my roomie and his identical twin figured it out, but he didn't. If you don't understand something and I've already pondered through that thing then I'm going to just tell you what I know, end story. Instead I like to adventure into the thing I don't understand. As a side note, I happen to love watching reality TV. The people make me laugh and the people-reacting variable always leaves an edge of the unknown. Also, I cannot accept your opinion on anything because you're from Toronto and everyone knows that people from Toronto are totally out of touch with reality.

aww come on, haven't you tried the tap water from Lake Ontario yet? The way it flows from the pristine ports in Detroit through the love canal that is Hamilton and out the tap (crystal clear I swear) it's mmm mn0good. HAHA you watch reality TV

[Wynch]

You know what I love the most about Toronto water? That nobody in Toronto drinks it because they think it's bad, but they drink bottled water, when in fact, that bottled water is the same thing you find in your tap. That's what I love most about Toronto. On a side note: I haven't been to Toronto since the Black Out.

And Yup, I shamelessly love reality TV. Big Brother and Survivor? They're like board games with human pieces. Love it. It's like watching sports. Mmm, hockey...

[misutii]

You know what I love the most about Toronto water? That nobody in Toronto drinks it because they think it's bad, but they drink bottled water, when in fact, that bottled water is the same thing you find in your tap. That's what I love most about Toronto. On a side note: I haven't been to Toronto since the Black Out.

And Yup, I shamelessly love reality TV. Big Brother and Survivor? They're like board games with human pieces. Love it. It's like watching sports. Mmm, hockey...

My brita filter is like 6 months old. If you think reality tv shows are like board games then I'd kick your ass in risk. football (soccer) > hockey and yes, I agree, the Leafs suck.

[Creepy-bg]

+2 for female ILEs who suck

that's hot

[Khola aka Bee]

[Wynch]

+2 for female ILEs who suck

Coincidently, I just had a dream about that.

My brita filter is like 6 months old. If you think reality tv shows are like board games then I'd kick your ass in risk. football (soccer) > hockey and yes, I agree, the Leafs suck.

Don't make me come down there and show you how wrong you are. Besides, you're INFp. What do you know about anything? Your life is a fantasy. Go back to Beta land where you belong

[Creepy-bg]

+2 for female ILEs who suck

that's hot

Coincidently, I just had a dream about that.

[Wynch]

If you share some of that popcorn with me, we can pretend it's a date

[Creepy-bg]

If you share some of that popcorn with me, we can pretend it's a date

DONE!

[misutii]

Don't make me come down there and show you how wrong you are. Besides, you're INFp. What do you know about anything? Your life is a fantasy. Go back to Beta land where you belong

lies! lies!

Let's just pretend for a second that some weird cosmic metamorphosis was to take place, that for a limited amount of time I would transform into hmm... I don't know let's say a penguin, and you into something, like hmm, what about a senator?, and then another cosmic beam flashed down and suddenly we're in plural form and we faced off in a best out of 7 - the results would be something like this:

PENGUINS vs. SENATORS
GAME 1: Penguins 4, Senators 0
GAME 2: Penguins 5, Senators 3
GAME 3: Penguins 4, Senators 1
GAME 4: Penguins 3, Senators 1

muahahaha

[xyz]

This forum has really been going downhill lately.

[misutii]

This forum has really been going downhill lately.

so has your mom

(sorry couldn't help it, the forums always going downhill according to someone, yet it never seems to hit hell, if you start making posts now you can stack them together and put them under the forum and along with some luck big muscles and a prayer raise it to the level it was before it fell to the level it is now)

[Blaze]

Sunshine, this is why, like I mentioned in another thread, I really enjoy playing strategy board games with people. You'd be surprised how much it reveals about a person. I still have a hard time putting my finger on an actual type, but I can start putting people into general slots.

FTR, I'm feeling a lot better about everything now. I had a chat with my best friend and she explained to me that I can be pretty overbearing at time, but that she understands that it's just my way of pushing past the awkwardness of a first meeting and it settles out a lot after that. She explained that she actually appreciates my steamroller attitude towards new groups of people because it makes it easier for her to open up to the transition between friendliness and the awkwardness of small talk. Made me feel a ton better, that's why she's my best friend <3

i am glad you are feeling better; it sounds like you found some Fe or Si or some combination thereof lol. which is totally what the thread is recommending. also look at the last page or so, the thing you have going with some of the Fe and Si types....that's the example of what kind of people to look for. these folks just lifted you right up....that's who you want to hang out with

you are right strategy games can be revealing....'cept that mostly T types play them hahahaha but yeah

[Wynch]

misutii, the irony of the analogy you just gave is that I'm not a Sens fan, but in fact, I am a Leafs fan. Why? Because they're consistent. And by that I mean consistent fail. They entertain me the most in their ability to be completely useless but always manage to draw a crowd. Not to mention it's ridiculously exciting when, by some miracle, they succeed. There's never a dull moment when you're a leafs fan...until the post season. Hahah

In any case, you wouldn't want to be a Penguin because

A) they're getting destroyed by an appendage
B) they live in an igloo, which makes no logical sense

Do you happen to play catan? If so, we should play catan online sometime. Though shalt be destructorzed

@Loki: You need to loosen up and have fun, apparently.

@Sunshine: You know, there are several un-T people that I play strategy board games with as well, and they're fantastic at them. Very good at reading people. *shakes fist and IEE again*

[xyz]

You two... I was joking, I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED TO SPELL IT OUT.

[Wynch]

Damnit! Jokes are seriously lost over the internetz.

[xyz]

Damnit! Jokes are seriously lost over the internetz.

Hey it's cool, how about showing me what cool stuff Ottawa has

[Blaze]

YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIP!!!!!!!!!

[misutii]

you are right strategy games can be revealing....'cept that mostly T types play them hahahaha but yeah

Oi! haha when I play risk with T types it's hilarious. I used to play with a group of people once every month or so and after I slyly won the first 2 games they changed the peace treaty house rules (lol) I lost the next few games -_-

misutii, the irony of the analogy you just gave is that I'm not a Sens fan, but in fact, I am a Leafs fan. Why? Because they're consistent. And by that I mean consistent fail. They entertain me the most in their ability to be completely useless but always manage to draw a crowd. Not to mention it's ridiculously exciting when, by some miracle, they succeed. There's never a dull moment when you're a leafs fan...until the post season. Hahah

In any case, you wouldn't want to be a Penguin because

A) they're getting destroyed by an appendage
B) they live in an igloo, which makes no logical sense

Do you happen to play catan? If so, we should play catan online sometime. Though shalt be destructorzed

no...no...no... you don't understand... this forum, it's my only refuge from the rabid Leafs fans that surround me, it's where I come to get away, this is like some kind of zombie movie where some poor person (me) fleeing from zombies stumbles upon someone who they think's not infected (you) but who ends up being infected. tragic, truly, how'd they get you? how? I thought Ottawa was still safe, WHO LET THEM IN?

I haven't played catan unfortunately, but it looks cool and I think I'd like it. Mostly I'm familiar with Risk, Scrabble and Boggle and their facebook ripoffs. Lately me and 2 of my friends have been playing Civilization (it's a pc game but it's like risk x 354092495832 and we sit in the same room clicking away for 10 hours straight and even though we never finish a game we always end up doing it again. it's like some messed up neurosis, thank god my laptop is too crap to run it lol)

You two... I was joking, I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED TO SPELL IT OUT.

lol, duh, I knew that... really... really... I was just pretending I didn't know but........ oh god im so sorry i didn't know I DIDN'T KNOW

[Wynch]

I'll sink your battleship alright *shakes fist*

misutii, I'm a leafs fan as a by product of avoiding the disappointment the Sens inevitably bring. They build you up to such a high then crap out miserably. With the Leafs, you know what you're getting, year after year. And it's fun to argue my point with the rabid Sens fans.

If you like Risk and Civilizations, you'll probably love Catan. It's never the same game twice. Sometime when I'm not at work and we're both on here I'll lure you into a game.

Loki, I was also kidding. I'm not SEI, I don't get all worked up over the inane, but I will show you how awesome Ottawa is!

We have the beautiful neo-gothic national parliament that rests on a hill overlooking the Ottawa River.



In the summer those buildings host an amazing light and sound show discussing Canada's history.



We also have the world's longest skating rink (7.8 km) during the winter when the Rideau Canal Freezes over...



...And delicious Beaver tails!



In May there's the Tulip festival: a gift from The Netherlands after Canada liberated them in WWII. All along the Rideau canal and around the city, tulips in every colour (including ones you didn't know tulips came in) are in full bloom.



Ottawa/Gatineau:



Toronto:

[xyz]

...I have GOT to go to Ottawa now....but it's just as far as fucking Myrle Beach, farther even. Damn.

[Wynch]

But you'd be visiting another country...oh, I forgot another of Ottawa's treasures.

Mmmm, heart attack in a bowl. And not the fake stuff either, genuine French-Canadian poutine.