View Poll Results: Which types do you communicate with/interact with best?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Types with your Te/Fi or Ti/Fe preference

    19 47.50%
  • Types with your Ni/Se or Ne/Si preference

    15 37.50%
  • Neither - doesn't matter

    6 15.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 52

Thread: Te/Fi vs Fe/Ti and Ne/Si vs Ni/Se preference in communication

  1. #1
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Te/Fi vs. Fe/Ti and Ne/Si vs. Ni/Se preference in communication

    I was wondering which types you find you have the easiest time communicating with/getting along with... those with your preference for Te/Fi or Ti/Fe... or those with your preference for Ni/Se or Ne/Si? (or neither)

    (hopefully that made sense)

  2. #2
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Pretty clearly Te/Fi, if you look back through this forum's history. I've had similar (though not as... dramatic... ) experiences irl too.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  3. #3
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Liar.
    WHAA?!

    Who is this hacking into poor Carla's account? Haha, I'm glad you dropped by, even if the visit is brief.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  4. #4
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Damn, I can't change my vote. I went for the Ne/Si side, but when I thought about the actual times where I've had the deepest communication, it's usually been quite a bit more with Gammas than Alphas.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  5. #5
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    not sure. assuming my typings IRL have been more or less correct, I seem to get irked at a prolonged lack of either Se/Ni or Fe/Ti.

    on a related note, I think that "fake", "bad" Fe is kind of a readily apparent (at least at first) turn-off for me.... gah it's so horrible!
    what is "fake" Fe to you?
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  6. #6
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was thinking about this... and I think it would make sense that people on average have an easier time communicating with (not necessarily interacting with) people who share their Te/Fi or Ti/Fe preference. This is because Te/Fi and Ti/Fe are information discriminators (rational functions). The perceiving IM elements seems to just "lay back" and absorb information (though maybe this depends as well on whether one is a rational or irrational type), but the rational functions are the ones (mainly Ti and Fi) that seem to actually place "judgment" on information. So if someone is "judging" the same information in the opposite way that you are you may have more trouble communicating with them.

  7. #7
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I was thinking about this... and I think it would make sense that people on average have an easier time communicating with (not necessarily interacting with) people who share their Te/Fi or Ti/Fe preference. This is because Te/Fi and Ti/Fe are information discriminators (rational functions). The perceiving IM elements seems to just "lay back" and absorb information (though maybe this depends as well on whether one is a rational or irrational type), but the rational functions are the ones (mainly Ti and Fi) that seem to actually place "judgment" on information. So if someone is "judging" the same information in the opposite way that you are you may have more trouble communicating with them.
    i think you're on to something here. makes sense in practical application, too. explains why illusionary relations work better for me than semi-dual relations. explains why beta works better than delta for me, too.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  8. #8

    Default ENFp - Ne, Fi, Te, Si - Questionssssss

    Okay, so I started a new job, and was quite busy working (I work at Starbucks, and we were in the middle of a rush). So the guy next to me, after we had both been busily making drinks for a while, looks up and says "ENFp". Naturally I had no idea what the hell he was talking about, and told him as much. He explained a little about what it was all about, and a few days later I got on the interenet and took an online Jung test. And, according to the test, I am, in fact an ENFp. And the test explained basically what that meant (although I'm not sure how accurate it is) and it also had these symbols and the following letters: Ne,Fi,Te,Si. But it didn't, for some reason, explain at all what these things meant. So I was wondering if you guys could give me a little info.... yeah?

    Thanks,
    Joey

  9. #9
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Neither, but it does matter.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  10. #10
    Melodies of a Martian~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    TIM
    SOME IxFp TYPE
    Posts
    669
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Definitely interact best with Deltas over Betas, Alphas being my own kin. ^^



  11. #11
    Nymeria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    TIM
    ILI 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    347
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know it's and old thread... but this (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...of-information) kind of discusses 'filtering of information'. Like after the absorption of information?(Tbh I sometimes really see the point of the OP playing out irl).
    Last edited by Nymeria; 07-09-2016 at 02:04 PM.

  12. #12
    malna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Poland
    TIM
    Ne EII
    Posts
    332
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ne/Si, no comparison. I tend to get along great with Alpha and Delta, far less so with both Gamma and Beta.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

  13. #13
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    I communicate best with people who are open minded and not too moralistically judgmental. I can get along with and work with anyone if they show me respect. I will show them the same. I might even be the one to hold out an olive branch first if I see I am only contributing to a problem by misunderstanding. I am aware of myself when I am being unreasonable. It also depends on how reasonable the person is and if I think it is worth the effort. I enjoy talking to my identicals quite a bit and working with them can be fun until we are both clueless on what to do and can only laugh about it. I also have pretty good communication with kindred when it is a topic we both are open to. Close-minded people are usually best avoided but if impossible I would not try to get too deep with them on a subject that hits their sore spots.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  14. #14
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssie View Post
    Definitely interact best with Deltas over Betas, Alphas being my own kin. ^^
    I am deeply hurt and saddened by this revelation.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  15. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I usually spend a lot of time considering alternate points of view.

  16. #16
    Melodies of a Martian~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    TIM
    SOME IxFp TYPE
    Posts
    669
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I am deeply hurt and saddened by this revelation.

    I am sorry but the elegance and beauty of the IEI just isn't enough to make up for the evil ofthe rest. :' (



  17. #17
    Melodies of a Martian~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    TIM
    SOME IxFp TYPE
    Posts
    669
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    well I think I enjoy hanging out with IEI over kindred (SLI)

    Also, i prefer Irrationals over rationals , EP > IP > EJ > IJ and NF > ST; IEE fave and xSTjs equally blegh



  18. #18
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  19. #19
    Melodies of a Martian~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    TIM
    SOME IxFp TYPE
    Posts
    669
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    what does it mean to frolic in a subjective feeling o-o

    I think I do get jealous of those who are able to feel without worrying about their effect on others... like I have to go back and forth on whether something is appropriate, but then miss the opportunity to say it, while it seems Fi valuers (maybe Fe doms too) tend to be able to just talk with others, processing the world and then instantaneously producing the correlated reaction without any further reduction or manipulation of the reaction, to bring about a more true and honest sense of relatability among everyone which I find myself unable to do myself. or maybe I'm not an ethical type in the first place. >_>



  20. #20
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssie View Post
    what does it mean to frolic in a subjective feeling o-o
    Frolic is a very playful word so it's a very subjective statement about how he perceives other people experiencing their feelings. Your experience and interpretation of the same types may vary. I agree they can be lots of fun.

    "Anything objective sticks to the facts, but anything subjective has feelings. Objective and subjective are opposites. Objective: It is raining. Subjective: I love the rain!

    Objective is a busy word and that's a fact. An objective is a goal, but to be objective is to be unbiased. If you're objective about something, you have no personal feelings about it."

    Everything posted in this thread is subjective feeling from what I can see and makes some, who don't self type Beta, sound like they have some Beta values.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  21. #21
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssie View Post
    what does it mean to frolic in a subjective feeling o-o

    I think I do get jealous of those who are able to feel without worrying about their effect on others... like I have to go back and forth on whether something is appropriate, but then miss the opportunity to say it, while it seems Fi valuers (maybe Fe doms too) tend to be able to just talk with others, processing the world and then instantaneously producing the correlated reaction without any further reduction or manipulation of the reaction, to bring about a more true and honest sense of relatability among everyone which I find myself unable to do myself. or maybe I'm not an ethical type in the first place. >_>
    Just curious but do you relate to Fe in the SEI?

    SEIs are often highly attuned to the emotional environment immediately surrounding them. They are skilled at loosening up the atmosphere and often seek to actively contribute to the overall sense of group harmony and familiarity. SEIs often feel uncomfortable in circumstances in which the group atmosphere is overly hostile or virulent; in such situations, they may seek to play the role of peacemaker in order to restore the mood to a sense of joviality or calmness

    .
    SEIs may expect individuals around them to behave according to the predominant emotional affect in a given environment. They tend to enjoy crafting an open, conflict-free, and relaxed environment where individuals are able to express themselves freely, but they may feel confused and deflated if somebody espouses viewpoints contrary to the predominant mood

    .
    Many SEIs are shy, sensitive, and reserved. They may develop a mild, friendly, and soft-spoken demeanor, as they can frequently be overly concerned that they have offended others with their actions. They can be inclined to a somewhat avoidant, withdrawn, and socially reserved lifestyle. Rather than forge strong emotional connections with others, some SEIs may be inclined to interact spontaneously (and often reservedly) with others according to the immediate emotional ambience of a situation.SEIs tend to spend a lot of energy concerning themselves with social acceptance and interpersonal dynamics.
    Fe as Creative Function

    The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view.

    For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  22. #22
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Nah, you're just a bit inexperienced with Fi stuff
    Please. lol There is nothing objective in what you posted.


    Fi as Demonstrative Function

    The individual is quite adept at understanding the interactions in personal bonds between two individuals, even in the absence of an obvious external emotional expression; but he is inclined to regard them as of lesser importance, and less interesting, than the broader emotional interactions in the context of a larger group. Moreover, those personal bonds are perceived as situational and dynamic rather than static.

    Key word: "Inclined"
    Key phrase" "In the context of a larger group"
    Key point: Fi is 4D as a demonstrative function.


    Last edited by Aylen; 07-11-2016 at 08:27 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  23. #23
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Mmm you're going to have to explain. I already know you're an Fe type by your objective style of judging feelings and expressions. I'm giving specific examples of my interactions with Fi types, so you're likely not going to fit into that category very well at all despite your free-spirited nature.
    Explain how your judgments are Betaish? Sure give me a few minutes.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  24. #24
    Melodies of a Martian~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    TIM
    SOME IxFp TYPE
    Posts
    669
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmmmmm..... let's see!

    SEIs are often highly attuned to the emotional environment immediately surrounding them. They are skilled at loosening up the atmosphere and often seek to actively contribute to the overall sense of group harmony and familiarity. SEIs often feel uncomfortable in circumstances in which the group atmosphere is overly hostile or virulent; in such situations, they may seek to play the role of peacemaker in order to restore the mood to a sense of joviality or calmness

    .
    SEIs may expect individuals around them to behave according to the predominant emotional affect in a given environment. They tend to enjoy crafting an open, conflict-free, and relaxed environment where individuals are able to express themselves freely, but they may feel confused and deflated if somebody espouses viewpoints contrary to the predominant mood

    .
    Many SEIs are shy, sensitive, and reserved. They may develop a mild, friendly, and soft-spoken demeanor, as they can frequently be overly concerned that they have offended others with their actions. They can be inclined to a somewhat avoidant, withdrawn, and socially reserved lifestyle. Rather than forge strong emotional connections with others, some SEIs may be inclined to interact spontaneously (and often reservedly) with others according to the immediate emotional ambience of a situation.SEIs tend to spend a lot of energy concerning themselves with social acceptance and interpersonal dynamics.
    Fe as Creative Function

    The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view.

    For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.
    Mayybbbee a little~ I don't feel responsible for others' emotional comfort though, I don't go out of my way to make people happy...I prefer to dissociate myself from the group, it's too overwhelming to be a part of it. I'm way more passive with my Fe if it actually is my Creative. xD



  25. #25
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Do so. Also show me a real example, because you're probably using illegitimate definitions if you really think what I just described is Beta and not directly related to Gamma SFs and Delta NFs.

    I'm sure you can richly partake in "personal bonds" and "emotional expressions," just the same as I can. That's not surprising, or at all what I was talking about.
    Not what I am talking about either. You think you are the only one who understands introverted feeling or has enough experience with it? Very arrogant to tell me that I am inexperienced with Fi and makes me wonder if you have a clue about feeling raw or otherwise. This has nothing to do with me being free spirited or whatever... I don't know why you brought that up.

    I also understand strong feeling of like/dislike, attraction/repulsion. I am just more likely to change my mind if the person changes their attitude toward me and I believe they are being genuine about it. I am not a grudge holder unless someone really crosses me. I also don't try to change people's moods or cheer them up if they are not open to it. This is not rocket science, it is just self awareness.

    I have my response pretty much all written out but had a few distractions.I need to read again when I am not so tired, for clarity. It is 4:30 am and I am seeing double so I am taking a break for now. I have family visiting and have to wake up soon so I will post some time tomorrow. It may be longish to sol's delight.

    You misunderstood what I was calling Betaish but I will explain. I don't think you are Beta ftr. You will see what I mean.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  26. #26
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssie View Post
    Hmmmmm..... let's see!

    Mayybbbee a little~ I don't feel responsible for others' emotional comfort though, I don't go out of my way to make people happy...I prefer to dissociate myself from the group, it's too overwhelming to be a part of it. I'm way more passive with my Fe if it actually is my Creative. xD
    Ok, was just checking. I don't care much for the descriptions either but I didn't want to push Jung's definition on you since we are not Fe doms and it is a bit different but I had too much going on to find it a proper description at that moment so went with what was quicker. There is way more to it of course and if you are SEI you also have 4D Fi like me.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  27. #27

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,048
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    this should depend on your valued functions

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Like/dislike, attraction/repulsion isn't Fi
    Sure, it is. Read normal theory and don't use "special (delusional) systems" taken no one knows where.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  28. #28
    malna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Poland
    TIM
    Ne EII
    Posts
    332
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Person
    Like/dislike, attraction/repulsion isn't Fi

    Sure, it is.
    This must be literally the first time I agree with you on anything, Sol. *fanfare*
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,048
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    This must be literally the first time I agree with you on anything
    I'm glad your understanding of the typology have become better enough for this.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  30. #30
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    this should depend on your valued functions



    Sure, it is. Read normal theory and don't use "special (delusional) systems" taken no one knows where.
    And how many times do I say it in my video?

  31. #31
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    There's a reason I was confused at what you said. But blah blah at the arrogance spiel. Okay okay. Awaiting your response.

    Like/dislike, attraction/repulsion isn't Fi, but it's a significant part of understanding the Fi orientation. Honestly, as much as I have a problem with taking the more shallow processes prescribed to Fi 100%, it is definitely important to grasp those descriptions with Jung with all the background context--as he essentially has a whole book that I just attempted to summarize down, and Jung is not even enough to really experience the purity of subjective and objective orienting to feeling responses.
    LOL. Ok, I am glad I waited to respond now. You actually annoyed the hell out of me with this response before your edited. I had seen it right before I went to bed. "Girl"? Really? You went there? I didn't know whether you were just being funny or being a dick to me.

    The first thing I saw was that you pointed out my use of Fe and it felt like an insult. I was going to refuse to even share anything I wrote and offer you a nobel prize instead, for pointing out my use of creative function, as if it was going to be a revelation to me. I actually wrote a response to that too but deleted and decided to sleep on it instead.

    None of what I wrote last night (about Beta) matters now because I think you make an excellent point here about Fi and how you feel about your own introverted feelings. Fi, alone, is entirely subjective and raw. Pure Fi, untempered by other functions, can appear completely divorced from the reality. It does affect others and either they don't care or they just don't get it. It does seem selfish, cold and sometimes arrogant. This has been an issue between my sister and me but we have been actively working on better communication and understanding each other on an objective level. She is a very loving and wonderful person but that Fi... whew. I just don't even want to be around her when she cannot temper it. It is like nothing can get through when she is in that state of being. Drives me crazy.

    BUT, I feel the same about the purity of my Ni. When I see someone describe it as "intuition of time" or someone types themselve Ni lead because they can tell time (I'm being facetious again)... I am just bewildered by the fact that some people can see such a beautiful, deep, complex function, like Ni, in such a simplified way. I wonder if everyone feels like that about their lead function.

    Now my snide remark about your lack of sensitivity when responding to, or talking about others, being a bit Betaish is of lesser importance because I don't think you would actually understand the patterns I have noticed on this forum (not just in you) since you do not understand pure Ni, how it makes associations and how it manifests as a lead, or a creative, function plus you do not value it. l am not saying you are stupid or anything but I don't think you get the complexities of it to even though it may or may not be your demonstrative function. So yeah, I concede your Fi is superior to mine if it is your lead function.

    But here you open the door to a different discussion that relates to my issues with you and your categorical, absolute, statements about others. You are not the only person who does this but I have already discussed this with others I took issue with.

    First I would like to know if you actually type yourself EII and do you use model A? I know you use Reinin from your posts. I feel it important for me to know those two things before I waste both our time trying to discuss functions with someone who I believe self types my Quasi Identical to only find out I am talking to an LII with greater focus on the role function. I mention LII only because you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    I take back saying both are =. Definitely Te/Fi - Fe/Ti.

    Te/Fi people are like all the same people.

    Same with Fe/Ti people.

    The Ne/Si - Se/Ni divide is a little more shallow and superficial. Fun and easy to be around, if you were to ask on a casual level which gets along best, I would say it's definitely easier to start things up with Ne/Si, but in the long run I don't gain a deep connection with Alphas/Betas and it doesn't go as far. They don't really understand feelings like Gammas do. As Ne sub I'm often immediately attracted to Alphas and have incredibly fun and interesting discussions and activities with them. With Gammas I have to work a little harder by finding a more common channel and outlet, but it's much more deep and worth it, and deep down I feel the exact same comfort and similar being with them as I do Deltas, that I can't with Fe/Ti types. Overall, Te/Fi is a lot more meaningful in communication as well as in a relationship.

    And this is my most objective reading on lots of people of each type.

    Gamma SFs are probably the most fun types I ever have known and they truly frolic in the subjective feelings. Alphas and Betas are too busy trying to read and interpret the situation, while the Gammas and Deltas have all the fun.

    It's sad but true
    Sad yes, true, for you...Nice use of "Fe". Very poignant.

    Are Te/Fi and Fe/Ti people ALL the same? Seems a very odd thing to say for a type who is supposed to be able to see people as individuals and not one big blob of sameness. I await your clarification.

    Just in case you are curious though this is what I was referring to when I said you sound betaish when it comes to judging and categorizing others. Don't think too much about it because it was in response to your shallow way of seeing Beta types as unworthy recipients of your deep complex feelings and superficial.


    • Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
    • Beta quadra types are inclined to attribute to a new acquaintance traits that they have previously observed in other individuals belonging to the same group as they see the new acquaintance as belonging to (Aristocracy).
    • Beta quadra types are inclined to look for general rules explaining people, politics, mechanisms and trends, rules that once defined can be applied generally, rather than go about things in a case-by-case way.
    • Beta quadra types are energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized.
    • Beta types tend to be skeptical of another individual's potential for personal growth in terms of abilities and character, and dislike being the subject of such a discussion by others about themselves.


    You appear to do all of this in various threads and I saw the irony of it all culminate in that one post.

    The biggest irony on this forum is how people post with such confidence about how much they get along, or don't get along, with certain types, list characteristics and even quotes that certain types say, attribute and project traits of new people or celebrities to people they know, and more, just like the Beta quadra description. Then some of it becomes the standard and confuses poor souls who are trying to understand socionics and have no prior knowledge. I even participate in this and that is why I have often added a disclaimer when I knew someone might take it as some kind of truth about a certain type.

    Now I take all these kind of threads with a grain of salt because I have no way of knowing if all self typings and typings of others, irl, are completely off. Some people just don't allow for their own margin of error and disinformation runs rampant. There is no real truth on this site. Just opinions. I agree with some more than others. Doesn't even have to be someone in my quadra but the more I read self typed Deltas here the more I appreciate my own quadra, their intelligence, generosity, and playfulness. It is much more welcoming and accepting than the quadra that claims to be the "home" of the humanist.

    Beta is not as shallow/superficial as some people who claim to be Delta think. This is not just to you. You just opened a door for me. This is all due to my brain compiling all this seemingly random information, then seeing threads like this and having things "click" for me. I don't even have a problem with most Deltas and one on one they can be wonderful.

    I communicate very well with IEE, for example, and I tend to see them as the most understanding and accepting of Deltas, even when they are being "judgmental" I can roll with it, commiserate, and laugh with them. I tend to feel strong empathy for EII because I can relate to their introversion and strong feeling function. LSE can actually be funny and they are fine as long as I maintain the psychological distance. I have a very interesting dynamic with SLI that I won't go into.

    I do see people in your quadra as individuals before I see them as a type and I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. You see them as ALL the same? Weird...I see my quadra kin as a group of fascinating and unique individuals who are comfortable to be around. Making fun of each other and insulting is just a game. They will reach out and help if you ask and sometimes you don't even have to ask because they just "know". It is rarely vicious but when it is there is an underlying issue. Not everyone in a quadra will like each other but that is life. It is no reason to throw them out of your quadra, as I often see self typed Deltas, here, do. Maybe that is why you do not accept people like Maritsa and SubT as your identicals? They are not just like you? Is anyone your identical on this forum? I kind of feel you and Jeremy were similar in many ways.

    Anyway insult and make fun of each other is not ALL beta types do when they get together. Some of my deepest conversations are with identicals and duals. Having said that, this whole quadra thing is very divisive to me and does not match up to reality as well as people may come to believe by reading these threads. It can appear that it does if someone is just attributing opposing quadra attributes to their own quadra members and presenting it as some kind of absolute. It just leads to misunderstanding people who are deemed not of your ilk.

    So basically people are whatever type you see them as regardless of whether there is any truth to it. I am not going to lie. There are people here who I really resonate with and they know who they are. Even though I trust their self typings and I like then, I still critically look at their posts and would not throw them out of my quadra because they were not just like me or ALL beta. Fortunately my beta NF kin are not so rigid in their assessments of others since their perception can and does change as new information is gathered. You just don't seem as flexible in your perception and you think you know the ultimate truth of how functions manifest in all types. That bugs the fuck out of me.

    Anyway, I am done with this stream of thought, for now. I have a fever that is climbing and unplanned Delta guests. None of this seems very important anymore and I wonder why I even bothered to respond. I guess I wrote most of it for myself, including what I wrote last night but chose not to post today. I WILL post it but not yet. It is best left for another thread and I have my eye on the right one already. Once I feel better and the opportunity presents itself.

    Oh, and if my thoughts clear after a couple of advil, I will probably revisit to clarify this post, or maybe I will just leave it as a testament to my inferior Fi.

    Edit: @Sol, look I added another volume!
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-11-2016 at 07:25 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  32. #32
    rougerogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    242
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I usually spend a lot of time considering alternate points of view.
    What are you trying to say by this? Open your mind and soul. Give me a projection or glimpse of something more beautiful than platypus. Are you saying that you don't have a preference because you actively seek out people with different perspectives than yourself?

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I guess the simple reason is one of my least favorite things is being unreasonable, and I tend to find a careful consideration of all alternate points of view is the best way to avoid that.
    I usually deal with questions that have nothing to do with anyone's preference and hopefully have a third person rather than first person point of view.
    Opinionated reasoning usually rubs me very wrong, even if the opinion has "support," because ultimately I'd rather strip away all questions of preference.

  34. #34
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I have a fever that is climbing and unplanned Delta guests.
    Oh, that sounds like a bad combination! Take care of yourself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    None of this seems very important anymore and I wonder why I even bothered to respond.!
    FTR, I like when Beta NFs write out a ton of their thoughts. I don't always completely track, but I enjoy seeing an "opposite" NF processing things. So I appreciate your effort.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I'm glad your understanding of the typology have become better enough for this.
    Holy cow, you demonstrate so much arrogance. Is this on purpose?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  35. #35
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,785
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    , I actually type lots of strange people on here as my identicals, ie. ouronis and the majority of EIIs on here.
    Didn't you say you type Ouronis LII? What made you change your mind? Because he seems not Fe valuing to you?

  36. #36
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Pretty much as you described. But Fe types tend to have a lot of fun "setting the stage" for things, like jokes, making a lot more gossip and poking fun at others than Fi. Fi is a lot more raw and one-on-one, ie. we'll just go give people kisses and hugs and show affection, we'll just react and rawly partake: affection, trash-talk commenting, "uncontrolled" subconscious expression and cracking up, because of our stance with others we will know what's meant to be a joke without having to interpret it like Fe types do, and we're not really afraid of being judged for anything. What they say in Fi descriptions about Fi types breaking out into a wild creature once they're around friends is 100% true. Remember Fi is introverted feeling so it's a lot more raw and unhindered by an external expectation or processing outside meaning. Gauging meaning and controlling the expression is the wavelength Alphas and Betas fall to. Most of Fi is living in the internal reactions of our likes/dislikes for what's going on. Most of my mom's side of the family is Fi valuing and exactly like this. I need to post you some videos of some "frolicking in Fi." Delta NFs get really weird (ie. Toby Turner and Robert Pattinson,) but Gamma SFs ime are the most fun, like Craig Ferguson and Stefan and Fabio from Top Chef, a Gamma dual couple I had a video of.
    So basically you like orgies? No shame in that... Just teasing. lol

    Your description of Fi get togethers is like every family/close friend, holiday get together I go to and my family is mostly Beta. There is a lot of singing involved but usually in small groups. My EII sister does not like to sing with us anymore like she did when we were kids. It usually ends up with my ESE sister and I singing old songs, after everyone else goes to bed. It is our bonding time and we talk about everything and sing sappy love songs.

    Right now it is pretty chill here even though I have family visiting, there is only one extrovert. My EII uncle just sits and reads in the living room (a room I never use). He will read at least 4 of my books before he leaves. He loves my "library" which has now grown to over a thousand books. I didn't even know I had so many until I let someone else estimate and put them on shelves.

    My ESE cousin is constantly on his iphone talking to his friends. He barely talks to anyone but he is only 14. My IEI brother just plays video games but he took my cousin to see "The Purge" last night. My LSI mom watched old movies (alone) but she kept hugging my cousin and telling him how much he has grown like it was a shock. He did grow about a foot since he turned 14.

    My uncle and mom talk in the dining room for a bit before they wander off to do what they prefer. I am locked away doing my own thing (alone) and all this was only on the first day. I was grateful for being sick. I love my family but I love my alone time too. It was basically hugs and kisses when they arrived and off we went in different directions. I prefer this. I was told about this visit last minute and of course I would not refuse family because they are family.

    Even at official type get togethers we do not "set the stage" for jokes, gossip, etc... People just hang out, sometimes in different rooms, depending on the venue, doing different things. There is usually like one centralized area where, mostly, older people sit and talk. You make beta get togethers sound like an episode of "Jackass". Things just happen naturally. There are no planned activities for our holidays or other family gatherings but they can get "wild". We are Greek, so if it is something big there is a lot of dancing and sometimes plate breaking but guess what, they are not all Betas. Culture plays a big part in how people celebrate.

    I do not like gossiping or pranks btw. I do discuss others but it is with purpose, not just to spread rumors or find out what unacceptable things they might have done. I don't like people gossiping about me either. I would prefer they ask me about something before they go sharing it with others, just to make sure it is true. I am not afraid of being "judged" around Betas. I feel I am being judged around Deltas though.

    How do you think Fe types have to interpret? I am not Fe dom but I don't consciously interpret anything. Give an example? I can't help but wonder how many other misconception you hold.

    If I do plan to have a movie night, which is usually Beta night, we will joke and make fun of movies and that is like the only "rule". If it is a group movie night we are not going to sit quietly and watch a movie. We are going to rip it to shreds because it will be a bad movie to start with. If I am seriously watching a movie with friends then we watch the movie. I do have a bad habit of predicting what is going to happen next so I am working on that. Some people love it but others get annoyed by it.

    Joking and insulting each other is something my brother and I do a lot. We do it more when his friends are around It is not mean spirited and it is not constant.

    All this depends on the situation and the people involved. Things are not as black and white as you seem to think.

    Maturity levels also play a big part in any group. I would be surprised if you aren't in the 23-25 age range. Sounds about right for what you describe. Everything feels new, wild, and raw then. In a few years your whole worldview and view of types will change. Your abstract reasoning will improve and you will not have such a narrow black and white view of people.

    Edit: What do you mean by trash-talk? Betas can "trash talk" better than just about any other group. In fact you kind of describe Beta quadra groups pretty well in your description of "Fi" groups.
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-12-2016 at 01:36 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  37. #37
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Didn't you say you type Ouronis LII? What made you change your mind? Because he seems not Fe valuing to you?
    After reading his description of a Delta group, and typing Ouro EII, I am pretty sure Person is an Alpha by socionics standards. A Delta by his own.

    Edit: I am on an edit spree today.

    I see he self types EII-Ne. Now it makes more sense but I think Ouro would be ILI>EII. Not retyping him since LII works.
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-12-2016 at 02:14 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  38. #38
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Oh, that sounds like a bad combination! Take care of yourself!

    FTR, I like when Beta NFs write out a ton of their thoughts. I don't always completely track, but I enjoy seeing an "opposite" NF processing things. So I appreciate your effort.
    Thank you.

    It was fine. We did have some of my mom's Greek delta friends drop by for a bit to see my uncle and my mom but they were so quiet I didn't even know they were here. lol

    My uncle is older than my mom and I got this bad feeling that I might not see him again after this visit. I am going to bask in his EII-ness while he is here, just in case. He is like the best person I have ever known, ever! I tend to have a high bar for EII because of him. My sister is close. <3

    I feel better today. My uncle made me homemade soup.

    Edit: I just caught myself "supervising" my ESE cousin. I am so glad I noticed. I do it to my youngest sister too. One more thing that keeps me looking into socionics just when I am about to give up on it and look into something else.
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-12-2016 at 02:08 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  39. #39
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    I respect your eagerness to study more information. But just go more abstractly in your Socionics definitions and I think you'll get there. The problem is, people are trying to assume a relational typology is something everyone can quickly understand and be taught. I barely understand it in the complexity of the human brain, but I know where and when to criticize those who clearly haven't even begun to try and go deeper, past the correlative manifesting traits. Perhaps the problem with such a social medium is the fact that most won't admit to Socionics being a lot more complex than a simplistic rundown of terms, and will only admit to holding the keys and yet give such primitive pitches about each type. What you perceive as arrogance from me is moreso just general criticism for the unevolving thinking that occurs in typology. But like all evolution, perhaps it is just happening at a microscopic level.
    Thanks for the advice. You say you respect my eagerness but I don't think that is true and your first line quoted above is condescending, so in return expect to get the same attitude returned. If not from me you will get it from others, over and over, until you start to see that the problem may be within you. You want others to acknowledge your perspective as being the "correct" perception and there isn't a "correct" perception here. You have formed your own worldview based on the available information and how you process it. So have I. So does everyone. You "think" I will "get there" but what you fail to realize is there is no "there".

    It is complex and if you think you are "there" you are already lost. See we actually do agree on the complexity of the human brain but you believe you know better than others and have an advantage over them. You don't know better. You just experience it different than me or anyone else. Each person has a unique concept of these ideas and how they apply. Think about that before trying to lecture someone on how they translate these concepts into real world experience. I try to use terms that most people here agree on first, so there is some mutual understanding. Then I can go from there. I learned something new this morning by listening to a forum member then I had an "ahah" moment that added to my experience of them and how we interact.

    What you see as eagerness is more like fascination with these concepts and how others apply them. I am not a novice to this stuff but you fail to even see that. I can say with 95% confidence that I have gone "deeper" than you have into the workings of the human mind and heart. I couldn't possibly go more "abstract" with this and you have no idea how my mind works. I am just trying to figure out how YOU see it because I know now you aren't really using model A. You prefer Reinin and that's cool. Just trying to get on the same page with YOU. If you notice I interact with others quite differently.

    Ok so this song is my offering to you. If you choose to listen then maybe you can go "abstract" with it and sense the deeper meaning. It is all I have to say for now because I have already been where you are, many times over. I expect to revisit and refine many more times in the coming years. I don't like saying that to people because it sounds arrogant but it is true, so in your case I am making an exception.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  40. #40
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    Aylen, your Socionics understanding is proving to be very simplistic. You can't type me Fe valuing and Fi devaluing--you've got no idea how wrong that is.
    Did I hit your polr? I don't type you anything. I am pointing out that you are inconsistent with model A. I don't give a fuck what you type yourself. You are overly complicating some things and overly simplistic yourself with others. You have nothing new to teach me at the moment but if something comes up I will make sure I give you a "constructive".

    Edit: I see you added much more to your post after I responded to you.
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-13-2016 at 01:16 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •