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Thread: Why NF/ST relations are worth it?

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    Default Why NF/ST relations are worth it?

    I'm thinking if this is all worth it really... It's not like I'm being an ass for no reason, but I'm starting to doubt what really is there to offer in having an NF/ST relation. Why even have one if it's not for practical purposes? Is there a moment when eventually you can understand each other on a deep level? It has gotten to a point that I just don't want to think about "why" others do this and that, and just go "fuck it." Seriously, for what? I really want to know. It's like I think we're on the same page, and then realize that I don't know shit about them (cursing for emphasis). I don't know if there really is a point of complete understanding, and that both parties actually TRY to understand. Personally, I think STs don't try nearly as much though.

    I'm rambling, but maybe there are people who think or have thought the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    I'm thinking if this is all worth it really... It's not like I'm being an ass for no reason, but I'm starting to doubt what really is there to offer in having an NF/ST relation. Why even have one if it's not for practical purposes? Is there a moment when eventually you can understand each other on a deep level? It has gotten to a point that I just don't want to think about "why" others do this and that, and just go "fuck it." Seriously, for what? I really want to know. It's like I think we're on the same page, and then realize that I don't know shit about them (cursing for emphasis). I don't know if there really is a point of complete understanding, and that both parties actually TRY to understand. Personally, I think STs don't try nearly as much though.

    I'm rambling, but maybe there are people who think or have thought the same way.
    Can't speak in generalities, so I'll only speak for myself. NF's make me hot.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Can't speak in generalities, so I'll only speak for myself. NF's make me hot.
    So it's just sexual?

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    I've never been in a relationship with an ENFP so who knows. But if you don't feel attracted and are put off by ST's, who cares what some description says about how you're supposed to feel about them...just don't date them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    So it's just sexual?
    No! It's more. And that's the best part, NF's think so differently from me that even though I normally have no interest in knowing how people work, I always just have to ask "Why?? Why do you think that way?" I guess it's more of a curiousity thing. And even though they explain it to me, I can't always "grasp" it sort of speak. It's nice to have people around that have very different perspectives from me. So while I can't always (and don't always) want to know 'why', i'm happy that I can grow due to the different ways they think.


    You know, when I'm not being stubborn.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Honestly, I know exactly what you mean and it can be very frustrating. However, they probably care just as much and just don't show it. It does appear as if they are not trying as hard. Sorry I can't be of more help. I'm in the process of trying to figure one out myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I've never been in a relationship with an ENFP so who knows. But if you don't feel attracted and are put off by ST's, who cares what some description says about how you're supposed to feel about them...just don't date them.
    The thing is that for some reason I do feel attraction, I just don't know why and if it's worth taking things further, and to what level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    No! It's more. And that's the best part, NF's think so differently from me that even though I normally have no interest in knowing how people work, I always just have to ask "Why?? Why do you think that way?" I guess it's more of a curiousity thing. And even though they explain it to me, I can't always "grasp" it sort of speak. It's nice to have people around that have very different perspectives from me. So while I can't always (and don't always) want to know 'why', i'm happy that I can grow due to the different ways they think.


    You know, when I'm not being stubborn.
    Personally, I do know that I always try to think differently (at least try as hell to do that) and always try to look at things from different perspectives, and that's something I do naturally. But, it's like I expect an SO to try and do that too, and maybe that is the problem right there... I can't describe how confusing and frustrating it is when you can't think at the same level with someone you've known for some time. I'm not talking about "more intelligently" or any bs like that, I'm talking about mutual understanding where each one learns from the other, and in time, you would expect that both people/parties have some sort of knowledge of each other's outlooks, etc. I don't know if this makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbsirena06 View Post
    Honestly, I know exactly what you mean and it can be very frustrating. However, they probably care just as much and just don't show it. It does appear as if they are not trying as hard. Sorry I can't be of more help. I'm in the process of trying to figure one out myself.
    What I get is that their level of caring might just be "logical" than something else. Like, "I should care about such and such, because it's what's supposed to happen." Also, something I hate completely is that they can get over people easily, ANYONE (including you). At least, they make it a big deal to tell you this sometimes, don't really know if it's true. In any case, that might well be one of the worse things someone can tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    Personally, I do know that I always try to think differently (at least try as hell to do that) and always try to look at things from different perspectives, and that's something I do naturally. But, it's like I expect an SO to try and do that too, and maybe that is the problem right there... I can't describe how confusing and frustrating it is when you can't think at the same level with someone you've known for some time. I'm not talking about "more intelligently" or any bs like that, I'm talking about mutual understanding where each one learns from the other, and in time, you would expect that both people/parties have some sort of knowledge of each other's outlooks, etc. I don't know if this makes sense.
    It makes sense. I guess it depends on how much exposure a ST type of thinker has received to NF type of people. I know I never had many in my life growing up, but, when I did they always tended to be the most interesting people, so by the fact that they always tried to look at things differently instead of just accepting their reality, made me want to be around them more.

    While we never could mutually understand one another, I still love those types of people. However, I don't think I've been in a relationship with any of that type, so I guess my experiences end there.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    This is interesting. My personal IRL close interactions with ENFp's has trancended words. We get each with other on a deeper level. I haven't experienced such difficulties as mentioned here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    The thing is that for some reason I do feel attraction, I just don't know why and if it's worth taking things further, and to what level.
    I feel the same way. It definitely feels like you are stepping out of your comfort zone. There is that fear and uncertainty about the future. It takes conscious effort to communicate and fulfill each others' needs. It is important to have an understanding of your differences to make it easier to give them the benefit of the doubt in case of miscommunication. But maybe this is where growth occurs and if the two people care enough about one another, they will make the effort to "speak the other's language". For instance, for us NF's this would mean for the ST to express and show how they feel about a situation rather than assuming that we know because if they didn't care, they wouldn't be here. So basically, I think it comes down to the people involved and how interested they are in each other and in making the relationship work. As the relationship grows, these "conscious efforts" will develop into a more natural way of relating to one another. I do think it is very possible to have a successful and fulfilling relationship as long as they share the same level of commitment to make it happen. Well, this is my opinion anyway...we'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    It's like I think we're on the same page, and then realize that I don't know shit about them (cursing for emphasis). I don't know if there really is a point of complete understanding, and that both parties actually TRY to understand. Personally, I think STs don't try nearly as much though.
    I just 'moved on' emotionally from an SLI last week - internally all my 'soft gooey' feelings vanished because of this. Because I kept feeling like he was playing a defensive game. Because I couldn't seem to penetrate his armour, because he wouldn't let me in and worse yet, right when I was willing to break down my barrier and be vulnerable, he strengthened his barriers and put more distance (physically and emotionally) between us.

    It wasn't an 'I need space' in an ordinary sense. It was very much a rejection of any relationship that went beyond the surface. I reacted with hurt and confusion and then I just decided to stop caring. The thing is, he seems like such a competent person on the surface, viewing form a afar. And that's why he wants to keep everyone operating at that level. To go any deeper and I think he's emotionally terified - the inner terrain is where he is lost and at sea and he doesn't want anyone to see that. And that's frustrating because no matter how much you say 'trust me, trust IN me', he's too fucked up to get it. And even a Delta NF reaches a breaking point.

    But he's just one guy/SLI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    I'm thinking if this is all worth it really... It's not like I'm being an ass for no reason, but I'm starting to doubt what really is there to offer in having an NF/ST relation. Why even have one if it's not for practical purposes? Is there a moment when eventually you can understand each other on a deep level?
    Yes.

    Idolatrie and I are only children and I've essentially adopted her as my sister/my twin entirely based on our closeness, trust and almost dependency. We're two incredibly competent and independent people to other people we know, but I'm at least very dependent on her - and not just because she's LSE and can 'do things' for me. Sure, living with her proved that she's very capable (or at least, very gung-ho) at tackling household tasks. But she is also my bedrock? There is so little about me that she doesn't know and very little about her that I don't know. I never feel in danger of being locked out, or eluded and pushed away. And I need her as much for emotional stability as anything else. If something has me all fucked up emotionally, just talking about it and hearing what she says from her perspective calms me down. We know each other so well now that I can often guess what's bothering her, even with the most bizarre or oblique of clues. And there's nothing I can do to really 'shock' her and nothing I can say that she would find 'inappropriate' and judge me for.

    But as positive as that all sounds, our friendship has grown over 7.5 years of adolescence. I first met her when we were 14/15 and we didn't really become good friends until we were 16/17 even though we were in the same class for those two years. We were incredibly dependent on each other in the final years of high school, but we still hadn't formed that absolute core of trust we have now - partially because we were very emotionally fucked up people then - and because our close bond was formed on the basis that we rejected evryone else. When we first university, that bond started to fracture a bit because we did't have the same amount of time for each other - I don't think the quality of our relationship necessarily changed for the worse, but I felt that there was a distance - that she was holding herself away from me. And my reaction to those situations never helps: I often react by becoming more elastic - I don't drift away, but I find other people or other things and pull away by becoming more 'spread out'.

    So there are definitely moments when I do feel the ST pulls away or shuts you out. But like I said, we got over that - not with some cataclysmic fight or anything - but we just spent more time together I think? Renewing the trust and dependence was very gradual and organic. I just...talked to her. Tried to understand her. Trusted her.

    And that's just one friendship! As I'm taunted Idolatrie with, I totally have a new BFF in the form of a male SLI who is the loveliest person ever.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    It's nice to know one of you hasn't lost hope in us yet
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    What I get is that their level of caring might just be "logical" than something else. Like, "I should care about such and such, because it's what's supposed to happen." Also, something I hate completely is that they can get over people easily, ANYONE (including you). At least, they make it a big deal to tell you this sometimes, don't really know if it's true. In any case, that might well be one of the worse things someone can tell me.
    I don't think that their level of caring is necessarily logical in the way you describe it. They have feelings just like the rest of us, usually very deep ones. For the healthy ones, they definitely do not care about someone just because it is just the next logical step. I think the logic comes in when communicating these feelings rather, or even understanding them. I think the reason they don't "seem" to care as much when a relationship is over, for instance is that they are very afraid of being vulnerable and embracing these feelings, so they feel that they have to protect them because that is all they have left. They don't just let anyone in, so when they do and lose, the only option for them is to go back in their seemingly strong outershells. It's a defense mechanism. I know exactly how such a reaction feels like to us NF's (a stab in the heart). I think that in actually it takes them longer to "move on", one of the reasons being that they don't allow for catharsis to occur. Don't let those ST's fool you. Most of them have beautiful, tender hearts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    It's nice to know one of you hasn't lost hope in us yet
    Not YET.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbsirena06 View Post
    I don't think that their level of caring is necessarily logical in the way you describe it. They have feelings just like the rest of us, usually very deep ones. For the healthy ones, they definitely do not care about someone just because it is just the next logical step. I think the logic comes in when communicating these feelings rather, or even understanding them. I think the reason they don't "seem" to care as much when a relationship is over, for instance is that they are very afraid of being vulnerable and embracing these feelings, so they feel that they have to protect them because that is all they have left. They don't just let anyone in, so when they do and lose, the only option for them is to go back in their seemingly strong outershells. It's a defense mechanism. I know exactly how such a reaction feels like to us NF's (a stab in the heart). I think that in actually it takes them longer to "move on", one of the reasons being that they don't allow for catharsis to occur. Don't let those ST's fool you. Most of them have beautiful, tender hearts.
    WTF shuddap loud mouth!
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    WTF shuddap loud mouth!
    LOL The truth hurts LV.

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    I think it's easy to meet one type and then think all people from that type are that way...I've done that myself. But I really do think Delta ST and NFs get along great. so don't give up hope!

    I had a really good (and bad) experience w/ an ISTp a couple years ago...had a blast w/ him, and all that duality stuff, but he wasn't looking for a relationship, so I took off. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't had a gf since, and is playing the field (quite well actually). So, that alone would have totally tainted my view on that type, but I know there are lots of awesome (and non-player) ISTps...just haven't met them all yet.

    And the more ESTjs I meet, the more I'm convinced they are a super fun type to hang w/.

    I do think STs and NFs are good together. You know why? Because you know how when you're hanging out w/ another F type, you know that certain things will upset them, or they'll avoid certain conflicts, etc...and it gets annoying? Well there isn't that problem w/ STs and it's refreshing that they can face conflict like that w/o flinching. But I do think they understand emotions, it's more of a non-verbal exchange though (provided you aren't dating a jerk, of course). The jerk factor is stronger than the type one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    The jerk factor is stronger than the type one.
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I think it's easy to meet one type and then think all people from that type are that way...I've done that myself. But I really do think Delta ST and NFs get along great. so don't give up hope!

    I had a really good (and bad) experience w/ an ISTp a couple years ago...had a blast w/ him, and all that duality stuff, but he wasn't looking for a relationship, so I took off. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't had a gf since, and is playing the field (quite well actually). So, that alone would have totally tainted my view on that type, but I know there are lots of awesome (and non-player) ISTps...just haven't met them all yet.

    And the more ESTjs I meet, the more I'm convinced they are a super fun type to hang w/.

    I do think STs and NFs are good together. You know why? Because you know how when you're hanging out w/ another F type, you know that certain things will upset them, or they'll avoid certain conflicts, etc...and it gets annoying? Well there isn't that problem w/ STs and it's refreshing that they can face conflict like that w/o flinching. But I do think they understand emotions, it's more of a non-verbal exchange though (provided you aren't dating a jerk, of course). The jerk factor is stronger than the type one.
    You are talking about getting along and hanging out, which I do agree that it's great. But it's comes to a point, and I'm not specifically referring to a gf/bf relationship, in the general sense, when things don't seem to be getting deeper somehow. It's hard to explain. You might think that it's at a certain level when it really isn't in terms of understanding. There is a very illusionary aspect of the "getting along" that eventually makes itself shown. That's what I mean about actually not being on the same page, and you realize, at least I have, that the other person is almost foreign in terms of what goes on in the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    You are talking about getting along and hanging out, which I do agree that it's great. But it's comes to a point, and I'm not specifically referring to a gf/bf relationship, in the general sense, when things don't seem to be getting deeper somehow. It's hard to explain. You might think that it's at a certain level when it really isn't in terms of understanding. There is a very illusionary aspect of the "getting along" that eventually makes itself shown. That's what I mean about actually not being on the same page, and you realize, at least I have, that the other person is almost foreign in terms of what goes on in the head.
    You make a good point. I know, at least for me, I've had some really deep and close relationships and some where the other person just wouldn't let me in. A lot of people these days are really scared to let their guard down and let someone in. Maybe they've been hurt before. I don't know what causes it. But some people do have a wall and force everything into a superficial relationship (which at least for me, is super boring and not fulfilling for a "good" friendship) -- that's usually what's going on I've noticed, when I feel there is a lack of being on the same page, or them being "foreign." I think it's more about individuals, and some will click on a deep level, and some will never "get" eachother, regardless of type. I think the potential to get to know a ST in a deep way is there, in a way that doesn't feel they are completely foreign, but instead, where you really get eachother better than any other type. But it's a matter of finding those people where that potential is there.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbsirena06 View Post
    I don't think that their level of caring is necessarily logical in the way you describe it. They have feelings just like the rest of us, usually very deep ones. For the healthy ones, they definitely do not care about someone just because it is just the next logical step. I think the logic comes in when communicating these feelings rather, or even understanding them. I think the reason they don't "seem" to care as much when a relationship is over, for instance is that they are very afraid of being vulnerable and embracing these feelings, so they feel that they have to protect them because that is all they have left. They don't just let anyone in, so when they do and lose, the only option for them is to go back in their seemingly strong outershells. It's a defense mechanism. I know exactly how such a reaction feels like to us NF's (a stab in the heart). I think that in actually it takes them longer to "move on", one of the reasons being that they don't allow for catharsis to occur. Don't let those ST's fool you. Most of them have beautiful, tender hearts.
    Yes, exactly. It is a little harder to crack the ST shell since logic clings to the old adage "once bitten, twice shy". Any perceived threat to their emotional balance precipitates distance, until trust is established. They must know that you are not going to give up on them. They must be consistently reassured that your feelings are not fleeting, nor based upon simple desire (including a desire to own or control them).

    I have never experienced a love more innocent or pure than that of an ST. It is very grounded, stable, and honest. Initially, you will be shut out, tested, taunted and mistrusted. Once the trial is over, and you have proven yourself worthy of such timeless devotion, you will know nothing more beautiful, gentle or tender than the heart of an ST.

    Getting "in" is certainly not a task for the faint of heart. I believe only an NF can manage this endeavor. Idealism rides out any storm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Yes, exactly. It is a little harder to crack the ST shell since logic clings to the old adage "once bitten, twice shy". Any perceived threat to their emotional balance precipitates distance, until trust is established. They must know that you are not going to give up on them. They must be consistently reassured that your feelings are not fleeting, nor based upon simple desire (including a desire to own or control them).

    I have never experienced a love more innocent or pure than that of an ST. It is very grounded, stable, and honest. Initially, you will be shut out, tested, taunted and mistrusted. Once the trial is over, and you have proven yourself worthy of such timeless devotion, you will know nothing more beautiful, gentle or tender than the heart of an ST.

    Getting "in" is certainly not a task for the faint of heart. I believe only an NF can manage this endeavor. Idealism rides out any storm.
    I like this post. We do have hearts, it's nice to know someone can see we have the capability to love and be loved. It's just a very long process.

    very, very long process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I like this post. We do have hearts, it's nice to know someone can see we have the capability to love and be loved. It's just a very long process.

    very, very long process.
    Yeah. Thanks Zenbrat.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    You are talking about getting along and hanging out, which I do agree that it's great. But it's comes to a point, and I'm not specifically referring to a gf/bf relationship, in the general sense, when things don't seem to be getting deeper somehow. It's hard to explain. You might think that it's at a certain level when it really isn't in terms of understanding. There is a very illusionary aspect of the "getting along" that eventually makes itself shown. That's what I mean about actually not being on the same page, and you realize, at least I have, that the other person is almost foreign in terms of what goes on in the head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    Is there a moment when eventually you can understand each other on a deep level? It has gotten to a point that I just don't want to think about "why" others do this and that, and just go "fuck it." Seriously, for what? I really want to know. It's like I think we're on the same page, and then realize that I don't know shit about them (cursing for emphasis).
    Yes, but I love that. Romantically speaking, there's something almost 'spiritual' about being so comfortable and at ease with someone and having absolutely no explaination as to why that is. So maybe I don't know every mundane detail about the other person's thought process and we don't spend every waking moment discussing "deep" or philisophical thoughts and sharing opinions on matters of life and death or whatever into the late hours of the night. The rewards of knowing there's at least one person in the world (or in your life) with whom everything can be so effortless and natural, knowing exactly how rarely this type of casual intimacy comes along, far exceeds any perceived benefits of knowing that such and such is your signifigant other/friend's favorite movie/color/song/coffee and why.

    Platonically, it's similiar. I've worked at the same place for 3 years and out of all of the revolving door of extroverts dying to "get to know me" there's only one ENFp co-worker I regularly converse with and who's presence I can not only tolerate, but actually enjoy. Our relationship began with a conversation about comic book characters and comic book movies and has pretty much been the same since then. We don't really get "deep" and if asked, I probably couldn't tell you anything remotely personal about him that other good friends could easily tell about each other. And I imagine it's the same in vice versa. Yet if I had to choose between spending time with him or all the other chatty dullards I work with, I'd choose to hang with him hands down.Our good relations could most likely go on for years if given the opportunity.

    I think the very fact that any NF-ST relationship could go on for as long (and as well) as some of mine have is a testament to it's strength.

    Why does everything need to be rationalized, analyzed, and stripped down to an exact science anyway? I think once you've discovered every brain pattern and pinpointed every compensating personality trait that supposedly makes you truly compatible with someone else (romantic or platonic) the relationship may cease to appear or feel as "special" and "one of a kind" as you once thought it did.

    If I didn't answer or address the question you were putting forth then oh well...fuck me. And just ignore this post.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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  27. #27
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I think it's easy to meet one type and then think all people from that type are that way...I've done that myself. But I really do think Delta ST and NFs get along great. so don't give up hope!

    I had a really good (and bad) experience w/ an ISTp a couple years ago...had a blast w/ him, and all that duality stuff, but he wasn't looking for a relationship, so I took off. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't had a gf since, and is playing the field (quite well actually). So, that alone would have totally tainted my view on that type, but I know there are lots of awesome (and non-player) ISTps...just haven't met them all yet.

    And the more ESTjs I meet, the more I'm convinced they are a super fun type to hang w/.

    I do think STs and NFs are good together. You know why? Because you know how when you're hanging out w/ another F type, you know that certain things will upset them, or they'll avoid certain conflicts, etc...and it gets annoying? Well there isn't that problem w/ STs and it's refreshing that they can face conflict like that w/o flinching. But I do think they understand emotions, it's more of a non-verbal exchange though (provided you aren't dating a jerk, of course). The jerk factor is stronger than the type one.
    The bolded comment-you are joking? You would judge an entire group of people because you met one who didn't want to settle down they way you wanted him to? Seriously?

  28. #28
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I don't think there's any big secret to this duality thing. From my POV you meet someone you get on well with, you become friends and hang out and do stuff. Or you meet someone who you get romantically involved with, you either both want the same thing-a future together, so you make plans and stay together accordingly. Or the two of you want different things so you go your seperate ways. This is dating. What is the big deal?

    Also-I have met people who would be regarded as selfish who are NF or ST, but then, what I think is selfish will be different to how someone else sees it-some people will see me selfish. But then why would you date someone you personally viewed as selfish, if you didn't like that sort of thing?

    I don't think duality always has to equal perfect understanding, sometimes it's just good to be along for the fun of their friendship and the fact that you both click at a level of providing each other some basic psychological goodies.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Yes, exactly. It is a little harder to crack the ST shell since logic clings to the old adage "once bitten, twice shy". Any perceived threat to their emotional balance precipitates distance, until trust is established. They must know that you are not going to give up on them. They must be consistently reassured that your feelings are not fleeting, nor based upon simple desire (including a desire to own or control them).

    I have never experienced a love more innocent or pure than that of an ST. It is very grounded, stable, and honest. Initially, you will be shut out, tested, taunted and mistrusted. Once the trial is over, and you have proven yourself worthy of such timeless devotion, you will know nothing more beautiful, gentle or tender than the heart of an ST.

    Getting "in" is certainly not a task for the faint of heart. I believe only an NF can manage this endeavor. Idealism rides out any storm.
    Beautifully said!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I like this post. We do have hearts, it's nice to know someone can see we have the capability to love and be loved. It's just a very long process.

    very, very long process.
    Yes.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  31. #31
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Yes, but I love that. Romantically speaking, there's something almost 'spiritual' about being so comfortable and at ease with someone and having absolutely no explaination as to why that is. So maybe I don't know every mundane detail about the other person's thought process and we don't spend every waking moment discussing "deep" or philisophical thoughts and sharing opinions on matters of life and death or whatever into the late hours of the night. The rewards of knowing there's at least one person in the world (or in your life) with whom everything can be so effortless and natural, knowing exactly how rarely this type of casual intimacy comes along, far exceeds any perceived benefits of knowing that such and such is your signifigant other/friend's favorite movie/color/song/coffee and why.

    Platonically, it's similiar. I've worked at the same place for 3 years and out of all of the revolving door of extroverts dying to "get to know me" there's only one ENFp co-worker I regularly converse with and who's presence I can not only tolerate, but actually enjoy. Our relationship began with a conversation about comic book characters and comic book movies and has pretty much been the same since then. We don't really get "deep" and if asked, I probably couldn't tell you anything remotely personal about him that other good friends could easily tell about each other. And I imagine it's the same in vice versa. Yet if I had to choose between spending time with him or all the other chatty dullards I work with, I'd choose to hang with him hands down.Our good relations could most likely go on for years if given the opportunity.

    I think the very fact that any NF-ST relationship could go on for as long (and as well) as some of mine have is a testament to it's strength.

    Why does everything need to be rationalized, analyzed, and stripped down to an exact science anyway? I think once you've discovered every brain pattern and pinpointed every compensating personality trait that supposedly makes you truly compatible with someone else (romantic or platonic) the relationship may cease to appear or feel as "special" and "one of a kind" as you once thought it did.

    If I didn't answer or address the question you were putting forth then oh well...fuck me. And just ignore this post.
    I see what you're saying... To me I think it comes down to being patient, and going with the "flow," letting things develop without forcing them. Honestly, I wasn't into thinking so much and rationalizing everything when I was younger, I don't know what happened along the way... In any case, I do see what you are saying and keep it in mind. The one thing though that I wonder is your last paragraph that you mention about having this sort of thing as a science. I do think that a little bit of science (or "studying") can go along way sometimes, so that higher levels can be achieved. It's like building on something to get into a higher place. But yeah, I definitely hate to mix feelings and stuff like that with science.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    I see what you're saying... To me I think it comes down to being patient, and going with the "flow," letting things develop without forcing them. Honestly, I wasn't into thinking so much and rationalizing everything when I was younger, I don't know what happened along the way... In any case, I do see what you are saying and keep it in mind. The one thing though that I wonder is your last paragraph that you mention about having this sort of thing as a science. I do think that a little bit of science (or "studying") can go along way sometimes, so that higher levels can be achieved. It's like building on something to get into a higher place. But yeah, I definitely hate to mix feelings and stuff like that with science.
    True. Increased awareness of why certain relationships work the way they do or people behave the way they do can positively enhance our understanding of ourselves and each other. Didn't mean to come off as 'anti-science' or anything, but I think it can be helpful not to intellectualize some things.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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