Model A diagram

[PotatoSpirit]

Does anybody know why the Model A diagram is built this way?
12
43
65
78

I'm sure those early socionics guys had a reason, but I can't see it.

I'm thinking about using the one that was proposed here... who was it, brilliand?

15
26
37
48

[Not A Communist Shill]

The first way was probably considered to be a logical top-bottom approach, with the Ego at the top etc.

It may be inspired by such things as this (one of Jung's famous dreams, which he thought represented the various levels of his psyche):

I was in a house I did not know, which had two storeys. It was "my house". I found myself in the upper storey, where there was a kind of salon furnished with fine old pieces in Rococo style. On the walls hung a number of precious old paintings. I wondered that this should be my house and thought "not bad". But then it occurred to me that I did not know what the lower floor looked like. Descending the stairs, I reached the ground floor. There everything was much older. I realised that this part of the house must date from about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. The furnishings were mediaeval, the floors were of red brick. Everywhere it was rather dark. I went from one room to another thinking "now I really must explore the whole house." I came upon a heavy door and opened it. Beyond it, I discovered a stone stairway that led down into a cellar. Descending again, I found myself in a beautifully vaulted room which looked exceedingly ancient. Examining the walls, I discovered layers of brick among the ordinary stone blocks, and chips of brick in the mortar. As soon as I saw this, I knew that the walls dated from Roman times. My interest by now was intense. I looked more closely at the floor. It was of stone slabs and in one of these I discovered a ring. When I pulled it, the stone slab lifted and again I saw a stairway of narrow stone steps leading down to the depths. These, too, I descended and entered a low cave cut into rock. Thick dust lay on the floor and in the dust were scattered bones and broken pottery, like remains of a primitive culture. I discovered two human skulls, obviously very old, and half disintegrated. Then I awoke.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I'm not sure why the top one is the way the model is displayed, but why would you think about using the second one over the first one? On the face of it, it doesn't really strike me as being any better.

[PotatoSpirit]

The first way was probably considered to be a logical top-bottom approach, with the Ego at the top etc.

It may be inspired by such things as this (one of Jung's famous dreams, which he thought represented the various levels of his psyche):

Cool dream... I wonder if he made it up (c:
Ok I see why you would want the blocks to be ordered top to bottom, but why not just write them as you'd read them:
12
34
56
78
And if you decide to go clockwise for the first 4 why then go counter-clockwise for the last 4?

I'm not sure why the top one is the way the model is displayed, but why would you think about using the second one over the first one? On the face of it, it doesn't really strike me as being any better.

Well it's way easier to remember, it has quadra values grouped at the top, and it shows the function axes: leading-seeking, creative-HA etc.

[PotatoSpirit]

cool, I had made a post about this before here.

I'll quote it:

Oh cool, a page to repeat my one line :-PPPPP

[Not A Communist Shill]

Ok I see why you would want the blocks to be ordered top to bottom, but why not just write them as you'd read them:
12
34
56
78
And if you decide to go clockwise for the first 4 why then go counter-clockwise for the last 4?

This is a good point, I don't why specifically it's like that. The clockwise\anti-clockwise thing may just be to show Conscious versus Subconscious.

You may find this page by the Fucking Admin to be interesting:
http://www.the16types.info/models.php

I don't know where he got that stuff from, and I don't particularly know what it means or even if it's of any validity/

[Creepy-Cyclops]

What if we put it horizontally:


1234
8765

This way the unconcious function underneath corresponds directly with the concious function above it?

(strong unconcious functions and the Dual Seeking and HA directly directly lined up with our concious ones)

[Kristiina]

1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1
5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5

1 => 2
/---/
4 <= 3

6 <= 5
/---/
7 => 8

QFT.
use this standard A model, not alternative ones. It will just confuse things because people in socionics assume the second row is super-ego and the third row is super ID. If you don't like it, complain somewhere. Just be sure to use as much classic socionics symbology as possible, because it will make it easier for people to look for extra information from wiki and this place. I'd say I know all I need to know about the A model, but if you give me
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model, then I will just think it's random symbols. (FeTi is not a possible type).



PS! lol @

Originally Posted by Subterranean
Fucking Admin

[Not A Communist Shill]

PS! lol @

Fucking Admin

I wonder where I got the inspiration for that from?

[Kristiina]

I wonder where I got the inspiration for that from?

lol, yeah, no idea. If you find out, let me know!

[PotatoSpirit]

QFT.
use this standard A model, not alternative ones. It will just confuse things because people in socionics assume the second row is super-ego and the third row is super ID. If you don't like it, complain somewhere.

Uhm it's not really how I work... I'll use what I think makes the most sense.

(FeTi is not a possible type).

Ok yes this could be a good argument, but if someone is learning about socionics, it would be just as easy to see the first two functions one below the other as it is one next to the other.

1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1
5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5

1 => 2
/---/
4 <= 3

6 <= 5
/---/
7 => 8

Is this an explanation of why they are arranged this way? I don't get it )c:

hey we don't all have your "skills"!!

Sry about that comment... <3<3<3

[PotatoSpirit]

This is supposed to represent a cycle: 1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1

Interesting. Why are they a cycle?

This is supposed to represent an alternating cycle: 5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5

How is this a cycle?

[Ezra]

I suppose a way to see it is kind of like seeing it as an outer shell and an inner core, whereby functions 1, 2, 7 and 8 are the shell, and functions 3, 4, 5 and 6 are the inner core. Why it's not:

1 2
5 6
3 4
7 8

I couldn't explain. Essentially though, the reason for having the first two functions - that is, your strongest functions, at the top, is to show that they're the strongest and the ones you place most priority on. I'd even go as far to say that you value the first two functions more than the 5th and 6th functions, because, if you think about it, individuals who say "I don't need anyone!" are clearly aware that they believe they can survive i.e. they have superior functional makeup to everyone else.

[Blaze]

i think the way august does it reflects basically the "iceberg" theory of personality, as in conscious and unconscious. so following that, you put the conscious functions first in order of preference followed by the unconscious. the somebody got the hourglass metaphor going, too. where the information becomes more and more contricted then broadens again at the superid.

[PotatoSpirit]

...

And how do you correlate the processes with the cycling networks?

[PotatoSpirit]

I don't understand the question.

If you have a simulation based on processes, but at the same time you want a cycling network on the FSM, how can you alternate between them?

[PotatoSpirit]

An interruption is where the onset of one state precedes the offset of another state.
A delay is where the onset of one state follows the offset of another state.

(c:

Ok, if no one else has anything to add I think I'll use the simpler model, and make it horizontal as cyclops suggested:

1234
5678

This way it should be obvious that it's not the original model and people won't mix them up.

[PotatoSpirit]

Easiest blocks to remember: [12] [23] [34] [56] [78]
Hardest blocks to remember: [41] [58] [76]

Are we playing random words again? (c:
Changing the order of the numbers to show that leading blocks with polr?
A newcomer would think those blocks are more important than the regular blocks.

[PotatoSpirit]

ah, I like this! I get what you're saying, kioshi.

Care to explain? What's the point of 4-1 for example?

[PotatoSpirit]

since kioshi presented this so simplistically, I feel that I should be able to understand it all relatively easily... it's actually extremely frustrating that I don't.

If it is of any consolation, I honestly thought he was randomly arranging random words in his posts, and I even tried to play along lol.

I guess I'll have to read Augusta myself )c:

[DirectorAbbie]

Does anybody know why the Model A diagram is built this way?
12
43
65
78

I'm sure those early socionics guys had a reason, but I can't see it.

I'm thinking about using the one that was proposed here... who was it, brilliand?

15
26
37
48

I've always used the diagram arranged by Brilliand and couldn't stop now even if I wanted to. I've even explained it to several people that way. When Brilliand tried to describe the traditional way to me, all I could think is 'that's stupid.' Either that's because directors are resistant to change, or his version really is better. It's easy to flip your chart horizontally to find your dual, or vertically to find your conflict.

[aestrivex]

who cares

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[PotatoSpirit]

I miss Potato. Where did he go?

Awwww you know I'm still here, you flatterer! (c:

[Creepy-Diana]

.