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Thread: Model A diagram

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    Default Model A diagram

    Does anybody know why the Model A diagram is built this way?
    12
    43
    65
    78

    I'm sure those early socionics guys had a reason, but I can't see it.

    I'm thinking about using the one that was proposed here... who was it, brilliand?

    15
    26
    37
    48
    LSI

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    The first way was probably considered to be a logical top-bottom approach, with the Ego at the top etc.

    It may be inspired by such things as this (one of Jung's famous dreams, which he thought represented the various levels of his psyche):

    I was in a house I did not know, which had two storeys. It was "my house". I found myself in the upper storey, where there was a kind of salon furnished with fine old pieces in Rococo style. On the walls hung a number of precious old paintings. I wondered that this should be my house and thought "not bad". But then it occurred to me that I did not know what the lower floor looked like. Descending the stairs, I reached the ground floor. There everything was much older. I realised that this part of the house must date from about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. The furnishings were mediaeval, the floors were of red brick. Everywhere it was rather dark. I went from one room to another thinking "now I really must explore the whole house." I came upon a heavy door and opened it. Beyond it, I discovered a stone stairway that led down into a cellar. Descending again, I found myself in a beautifully vaulted room which looked exceedingly ancient. Examining the walls, I discovered layers of brick among the ordinary stone blocks, and chips of brick in the mortar. As soon as I saw this, I knew that the walls dated from Roman times. My interest by now was intense. I looked more closely at the floor. It was of stone slabs and in one of these I discovered a ring. When I pulled it, the stone slab lifted and again I saw a stairway of narrow stone steps leading down to the depths. These, too, I descended and entered a low cave cut into rock. Thick dust lay on the floor and in the dust were scattered bones and broken pottery, like remains of a primitive culture. I discovered two human skulls, obviously very old, and half disintegrated. Then I awoke.

  3. #3
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I'm not sure why the top one is the way the model is displayed, but why would you think about using the second one over the first one? On the face of it, it doesn't really strike me as being any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    The first way was probably considered to be a logical top-bottom approach, with the Ego at the top etc.

    It may be inspired by such things as this (one of Jung's famous dreams, which he thought represented the various levels of his psyche):
    Cool dream... I wonder if he made it up (c:
    Ok I see why you would want the blocks to be ordered top to bottom, but why not just write them as you'd read them:
    12
    34
    56
    78
    And if you decide to go clockwise for the first 4 why then go counter-clockwise for the last 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm not sure why the top one is the way the model is displayed, but why would you think about using the second one over the first one? On the face of it, it doesn't really strike me as being any better.
    Well it's way easier to remember, it has quadra values grouped at the top, and it shows the function axes: leading-seeking, creative-HA etc.
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    cool, I had made a post about this before here.

    I'll quote it:
    Oh cool, a page to repeat my one line :-PPPPP
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit View Post
    Ok I see why you would want the blocks to be ordered top to bottom, but why not just write them as you'd read them:
    12
    34
    56
    78
    And if you decide to go clockwise for the first 4 why then go counter-clockwise for the last 4?
    This is a good point, I don't why specifically it's like that. The clockwise\anti-clockwise thing may just be to show Conscious versus Subconscious.

    You may find this page by the Fucking Admin to be interesting:
    http://www.the16types.info/models.php

    I don't know where he got that stuff from, and I don't particularly know what it means or even if it's of any validity/

  7. #7
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    What if we put it horizontally:


    1234
    8765

    This way the unconcious function underneath corresponds directly with the concious function above it?

    (strong unconcious functions and the Dual Seeking and HA directly directly lined up with our concious ones)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1
    5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5

    1 => 2
    /---/
    4 <= 3

    6 <= 5
    /---/
    7 => 8
    QFT.
    use this standard A model, not alternative ones. It will just confuse things because people in socionics assume the second row is super-ego and the third row is super ID. If you don't like it, complain somewhere. Just be sure to use as much classic socionics symbology as possible, because it will make it easier for people to look for extra information from wiki and this place. I'd say I know all I need to know about the A model, but if you give me
    15
    26
    37
    48
    model, then I will just think it's random symbols. (FeTi is not a possible type).



    PS! lol @
    Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Fucking Admin
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    PS! lol @

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Fucking Admin
    I wonder where I got the inspiration for that from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    I wonder where I got the inspiration for that from?
    lol, yeah, no idea. If you find out, let me know!
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    QFT.
    use this standard A model, not alternative ones. It will just confuse things because people in socionics assume the second row is super-ego and the third row is super ID. If you don't like it, complain somewhere.
    Uhm it's not really how I work... I'll use what I think makes the most sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    (FeTi is not a possible type).
    Ok yes this could be a good argument, but if someone is learning about socionics, it would be just as easy to see the first two functions one below the other as it is one next to the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1
    5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5

    1 => 2
    /---/
    4 <= 3

    6 <= 5
    /---/
    7 => 8
    Is this an explanation of why they are arranged this way? I don't get it )c:
    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    hey we don't all have your "skills"!!
    Sry about that comment... <3<3<3
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    This is supposed to represent a cycle: 1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 1
    Interesting. Why are they a cycle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    This is supposed to represent an alternating cycle: 5 => 6 <= 7 => 8 <= 5
    How is this a cycle?
    LSI

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I suppose a way to see it is kind of like seeing it as an outer shell and an inner core, whereby functions 1, 2, 7 and 8 are the shell, and functions 3, 4, 5 and 6 are the inner core. Why it's not:

    1 2
    5 6
    3 4
    7 8

    I couldn't explain. Essentially though, the reason for having the first two functions - that is, your strongest functions, at the top, is to show that they're the strongest and the ones you place most priority on. I'd even go as far to say that you value the first two functions more than the 5th and 6th functions, because, if you think about it, individuals who say "I don't need anyone!" are clearly aware that they believe they can survive i.e. they have superior functional makeup to everyone else.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    i think the way august does it reflects basically the "iceberg" theory of personality, as in conscious and unconscious. so following that, you put the conscious functions first in order of preference followed by the unconscious. the somebody got the hourglass metaphor going, too. where the information becomes more and more contricted then broadens again at the superid.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    ...
    And how do you correlate the processes with the cycling networks?
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    I don't understand the question.
    If you have a simulation based on processes, but at the same time you want a cycling network on the FSM, how can you alternate between them?
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    An interruption is where the onset of one state precedes the offset of another state.
    A delay is where the onset of one state follows the offset of another state.
    (c:

    Ok, if no one else has anything to add I think I'll use the simpler model, and make it horizontal as cyclops suggested:

    1234
    5678

    This way it should be obvious that it's not the original model and people won't mix them up.
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    Easiest blocks to remember: [12] [23] [34] [56] [78]
    Hardest blocks to remember: [41] [58] [76]
    Are we playing random words again? (c:
    Changing the order of the numbers to show that leading blocks with polr?
    A newcomer would think those blocks are more important than the regular blocks.
    Last edited by PotatoSpirit; 05-15-2008 at 09:28 AM. Reason: useless plurals
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    ah, I like this! I get what you're saying, kioshi.
    Care to explain? What's the point of 4-1 for example?
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    since kioshi presented this so simplistically, I feel that I should be able to understand it all relatively easily... it's actually extremely frustrating that I don't.
    If it is of any consolation, I honestly thought he was randomly arranging random words in his posts, and I even tried to play along lol.

    I guess I'll have to read Augusta myself )c:
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit View Post
    Does anybody know why the Model A diagram is built this way?
    12
    43
    65
    78

    I'm sure those early socionics guys had a reason, but I can't see it.

    I'm thinking about using the one that was proposed here... who was it, brilliand?

    15
    26
    37
    48
    I've always used the diagram arranged by Brilliand and couldn't stop now even if I wanted to. I've even explained it to several people that way. When Brilliand tried to describe the traditional way to me, all I could think is 'that's stupid.' Either that's because directors are resistant to change, or his version really is better. It's easy to flip your chart horizontally to find your dual, or vertically to find your conflict.

    ESTj
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    who cares

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I miss Potato. Where did he go?
    Awwww you know I'm still here, you flatterer! (c:
    LSI

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    Creepy-Diana

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