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Thread: Social Conditioning

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Social Conditioning

    I'm not talking about type-changing here, or changing one's (de)valued functions. However, I do have a few questions, and I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on this.

    Basically, every time I walk into the barracks, I fall in love with the army. It's like there's a magical dust in the air. However, when I leave again, I'm relieved and happy. In fact, some of the values and standards of the army remain implanted in my head. I actually adjust very quickly to civilian life, but for the first hour or so, and - on a deeper, subconscious level - permanently - there are ingrained into my mind said values.

    You can take this idea and apply it to any social situation you might find yourselves in.

    1. Do your values changing as a result of the society you live in, or is it merely due to the fact that values you already hold are slowly and gradually becoming known to you e.g. the trigger is the key unlocking the door to your mind.

    2. Do some types find it easier to adapt to certain societies e.g. Betas will find it easier to adapt to a military environment; Deltas to a farming community etc. or can any type theoretically be conditioned to any environment?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    xyz's Avatar
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    I'm sure it has lots of power and influence on you. I grew up with a very close and open family, so while we still had family conflicts and all that good stuff, we pretty much always knew the whole story. But anyway:

    1. Do your values changing as a result of the society you live in, or is it merely due to the fact that values you already hold are slowly and gradually becoming known to you e.g. the trigger is the key unlocking the door to your mind.
    I'm sure that you adopt your own values as you grow older, but at the same time you can never fully let go of the massive influence your childhood development has on you.


    2. Do some types find it easier to adapt to certain societies e.g. Betas will find it easier to adapt to a military environment; Deltas to a farming community etc. or can any type theoretically be conditioned to any environment?
    Dunno, maybe.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Depends, if you're stupid you will be very conditioned, otherwise not. Falling in love with the army sounds especially stupid. Anybody that is actually able to fall in love with an institution that is based on such strict completely artificially created rules should be denied from seriously posting about such a free-flowing subject like socionics.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  4. #4
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    1. Do your values changing as a result of the society you live in, or is it merely due to the fact that values you already hold are slowly and gradually becoming known to you e.g. the trigger is the key unlocking the door to your mind.

    2. Do some types find it easier to adapt to certain societies e.g. Betas will find it easier to adapt to a military environment; Deltas to a farming community etc. or can any type theoretically be conditioned to any environment?
    Recently I read some stuff regarding this, and while the rest of what I read made little sense, this stuff seemed plausible:

    a) as we learn to maneuver in our environment (social and other), we learn to adapt ourselves towards meeting our needs (in this environment, social or other). This can effect our values temporarily (for as long as we are in that environment). Meaning that while we are IN that environment, we react somewhat differently than we would in a different environment. (unfortunately, if that environment lasts for a lengthy time ...years... or is very intense...war...then those values can carry over into other environments and be considered "maladaptive" or "disordered")

    b) we learn to adopt values that our attachments encourage in us. Attachments doesn't refer to our caregivers (those who meet the physiological needs ie parents), but it does refer to those people who's opinions we respect and love. (something about responding to us quickly and with intensity)


    Feel free to ignore this last part:
    This brings to mind thoughts and questions like
    * what happens if the environment we are adapting to values functions we don't?
    * what happens if the environment we are adapting to doesn't value the functions we do?
    * would attachments be more likely to form based on quadra values?
    * what happens if an attachment forms with someone who only partially values our quadra functions? (one set but not another, ie values Fi/Te portion but not Ne/Si portion)
    * what happens if an attachment forms with someone who is of the opposing quadra (no shared functions)?
    * how could we discard previous attachments and deliberately develop/create new ones?
    * how could we create an attachment to ourselves in such a way that we are not so subject to the values and responses of others? And would this even be a healthy thing to do? (it would create an island....a lonely island, imo.....and still wouldn't remove the environmental adaptations required)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  5. #5

    Default

    I'll reply to #2 first because it's more straightforward. Definitely yes - different types will more easily adapt to certain societies. This can be related directly to the concept of integral types and comparing the quadra values of the individual to those of the society.

    Here's an analogy. Let's say we have two pieces of rubber: one square-shaped and one circle-shaped (this has nothing to do with the information element shapes). Now we want to use these rubber pieces to plug a circle-shaped hole. Clearly, the circle-shaped one is going to do a better job. It will fit naturally and snugly. On the other hand, the square-shaped piece is going to cause problems. It's going to take a good deal of force to squish the square into the round shape of the hole. Once we do get it to fit, the force that we applied will remain as tension, with the boundaries of the hole trying to force the square rubber piece out (or the rubber piece trying to break free of its confinement, depending on which perspective you take).

    Back to the original question - if the individual's quadra is the same as the main quadra of the society, then there will be a resonance between what the society expects from the person and what the person wants to get out of his or her own life. The individual will be receptive to the signals of the society. If they are in adjacent quadras, there will be a partial alignment of interests. On the other hand, if the quadras are opposite, then there will not be any resonance between the individual and his society, and he will have much more trouble accepting the signals of that society and responding in a way that is beneficial to either the society or himself. Adapting (conforming) to the society is still possible, but is likely to be a much more painful, forceful, and abrasive process.

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