Fight Club

[Ezra]

Tyler Durden LIE is possible. He has an abundance of facts and information, and has the energy of an EJ; it seems as if he retains the values of a dynamic Gamma. Also, appears to be very weak in Si. Although his Se is probably unusually strong for an LIE, I might be conflating his life style with Se, when in reality, it's merely the lifestyle of any given Gamma. The problem with SLE is that I don't see the Ti; I see Te. Likewise, with SEE, I don't really see Fi creative; he doesn't seem to give a shit about anyone but himself.

Cornelius Tyler's benefactor is a possibility; Tyler is essentially what he wants to be but isn't. Maybe Delta, because he doesn't seem to care about Se/Ni (at least not until Tyler comes along); he just wants solice and to live his consumerist life. He's uncomfortable with violence throughout the whole film, and only explodes maybe once.

Marla Singer Arguably Se valuing, and, if so, IEI wouldn't seem out of the question. Whatever the case, she's extremely unhealthy.

Bob EIE. Emotionally expressive; essentially one of the suckups to Tyler. Seems to value Se/Ni. Then again, who who is a part of Fight Club doesn't?

[Ezra]

Oh yeah, you can move this if you want. I realised it was in the wrong subforum just after I posted it.

[FDG]

Well that's obviously an alpha/beta movie. It's all about upheaval in society, nothing like gamma's evolutionary progress. I'd say Tyler is a clear SLE.

[Ezra]

Well that's obviously an alpha/beta movie. It's all about upheaval in society, nothing like gamma's evolutionary progress. I'd say Tyler is a clear SLE.

Alpha? Come off it. The Se is far too overwhelming for them. And what the fuck kind of propagandic bullshit is "gamma's evolutionary progress"?

[FDG]

Alpha? Come off it. The Se is far too overwhelming for them. And what the fuck kind of propagandic bullshit is "gamma's evolutionary progress"?

Idiot, I said Alpha-Beta, which is the peak of Fe.
Nothing propagandistic, there is both the need for revolution and evolution and steady-state, and each quadra gives priority to a part of the process.
I say Fight Club is situated at the peak of Fe-Ti, inbetween Alpha and Beta, opposed to the peak of Te-Fi.
In order to understand this you must accept quadra rotation, also because it's the only correct interpretation of socionics. It's about time that you do it and stop throwing around incorrect opinions with arrogance.

[Ezra]

Idiot, I said Alpha-Beta, which is the peak of Fe.

Don't call me an idiot. Actually, you said "Alpha/Beta" which essentially in my mind means "Alpha and/or Beta". Don't know what it means in yours. Besides, I don't know what system your studying. "Alpha-Beta" being "the peak of Fe"? Come on. We all know that Alpha Fe and Beta Fe look different. They're not the same thing. And besides, I didn't see an ounce of Fe in that film. It was dry, witty and intelligent but with Se; typical Gamma feel.

In order to understand this you must accept quadra rotation, also because it's the only correct interpretation of socionics.

Right, okay, apologies. I don't go by that system.

It's about time that you do it and stop throwing around incorrect opinions with arrogance.

Phaedrus?

Man, he's creating an army. Fabio, for a Ti PoLR, that was pretty fucking Ti. Maybe you are my Identical after all.

[1981slater]

IMO Tyler is probably an ESTp since he's supervising Cornelius (INTj) by trying to change Cornelius' lifestyle by bringing into it. Bob is clearly an ILE: he's sincere with strangers and he seems very excited about new projects. Marla is alpha SF.

[leckysupport]

At times through out the movie Tyler reminds me of O'Brien from 1984. I'm not sure Tyler is a real personality though.

[Logos]

Alpha? Come off it. The Se is far too overwhelming for them. And what the fuck kind of propagandic bullshit is "gamma's evolutionary progress"?

There is alot of Se in the film, but how is it portrayed? If this is a social commentary on the state of the male in the Ikea society, is that Se being portrayed positively or is it merely the pressure valve through which we see this film? So I can definitely see why this may be considered a Beta film since there is Se-aplenty, but there is also the question as to what ends it is used.

[ScarlettLux]

Sry2Say but Fight Club is the purest Beta movie I have ever seen. IEIs are all head over heels for Tyler after they watch it. Where the heck are you seeing Te? Just because he has a lot of facts doesn't mean he doesn't have strong - look @ the functions together and what Tyler obviously values.

It would be laughable to even consider him dual seeking - check out what he does. He bands people together collectively, as one unit, without names! Everyone shaves their head, they are degraded, but in an way, it's all baby. Not LIE by a long shot. He values / ... the whole movie is about that. Imposing a structure (SeTi) ... he's a natural leader, knows how to rally troops and such.

I am also doing this for my film studies assignment (the biggest presentation ever) and I know a lot more about Fight Club now than I did before. Still love it, but I think Taxi Driver is a better film for what they're trying to convey.

Anyhow... Cornelius? I thought his name was Jack! Wow, is it? =/ Anyway I think he is an LII. He is so in need of some it's not even funny. But it's kinda strange how he does accept Tyler's imposement of on him ... it hurts him so bad (acid on hand lol) but in the end, he falls prey to it.

[Joy]

I haven't seen the movie in years, but I think Marla is IEI, and I don't think Tyler is LIE.

[meatburger]

I think Brad is LIE. I find it hard to seperate the characters from the actors most of the time.

[JRiddy]

Hmmmm....
I think the Alpha vibe may be coming from both of the lead actors. I'm fairly certain Edward Norton is ILE, and Brad Pitt seems Alpha-ish to me. Anyways...

• Cornelius -
  • IJ Temperament seems fairly obvious to me from the routine, generally unexpressive demeanor and manner
  • Stimulated and and activated by , as seen in the support group meetings
  • Seems to have a latent value for , generally infantile and innocuous
  • Completely sucks at
  • I see more of a conflictor relationship with Tyler, with his source of low-self esteem (read: super-ego) taking on a mind of its own
• Tyler - (maybe )
  • In my estimation, blatant constant displays of , with power and mobilization on parade
  • Seems very capable of relating to people's attitudes and exploiting their emotional weaknesses, and even though he seems able to organize this huge attack, I get the impression it's more than .
  • Very manipulative in addition to his more overt displays of power, using his ability to predict the actions of individuals, suggesting
  • Please note that creative doesnt mean that someone "cares about others". He's good at it, not nice about it.
• Marla - (maybe )
  • I don't think the is hard to see at all; seems to be "out of the moment", victim description seems to fit
  • Where's the ? I can't see it at all.
  • Little concern with external appearance
  • Very critical and derisive, making -like criticisms
• Bob - umm....no comment

I could see arguments for Beta, but I'm more willing to talk functions than quadras. The interesting thing about this film socionically is that it is Alpha that represents the status quo and Gamma that represents the revolution. This turns the usual convention on its head, and makes the story more interesting and complex. But it's a story, and the characters are exaggerations, which make it hard to type them completely.

[Gilly]

IMO:

A movie about Beta from an Alpha perspective.

Tyler- SLE
Cornelius - ILE
Marla - EIE/IEI
Bob - ESE

Ezra please cease your tirade of idiocy. You remind me too much of me sometimes.

[olduser]

i agree w/ ezra. book tyler is really Te.

[Joy]

Se > Te, no doubt

[olduser]

Se > Te, no doubt

hmm.. yeah probably. but I think i see more Ti than Se even. Tyler is a visionary, not a mob boss. he dominates people by ideals and know-how, not brute force/intimidation. send in the ESTPs.

[Ezra]

IMO Tyler is probably an ESTp since he's supervising Cornelius (INTj) by trying to change Cornelius' lifestyle by bringing into it. Bob is clearly an ILE he's sincere with strangers and he seems very excited about new projects. Marla is alpha SF.

That's a good point; I didn't see it from that perspective before. However, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Marla is an Alpha SF. Firstly, where's the Alpha Fe (blocked with Si)? Secondly, where's the Si?

I'm not sure Tyler is a real personality though.

Course he is. Just because he is Cornelius doesn't mean he's not a personality. He's the personality Cornelius wants to be.

There is alot of Se in the film, but how is it portrayed? If this is a social commentary on the state of the male in the Ikea society, is that Se being portrayed positively or is it merely the pressure valve through which we see this film? So I can definitely see why this may be considered a Beta film since there is Se-aplenty, but there is also the question as to what ends it is used.

Exactly.

Where the heck are you seeing Te?

The way he comes out with all this information that he has, and he always manages to put it to good use.

Just because he has a lot of facts doesn't mean he doesn't have strong Ti[...]

People competent in Te are also competent in Ti. I just believe he's more concerned with Te, although I can see the argument for Ti; he's heading a revolution based on his own perception of the world; that it is a consumeristic machine.

[...]look @ the functions together and what Tyler obviously values.

Which are?

It would be laughable to even consider him Fi dual seeking - check out what he does. He bands people together collectively, as one unit, without names! Everyone shaves their head, they are degraded, but in an Fe way, it's all Fe baby. Not LIE by a long shot. He values Fe/Ti ... the whole movie is about that.

Just saying "this is the case" is not really very convincing. How is it "all Fe"? Why is it laughable to consider him as Fi valuing? He doesn't band them together collectively; they band themselves together. This could even be social commentary - that people look for a collective; a group i.e. people want to be lead. Tyler is a strong figure.

Imposing a structure (SeTi) ... he's a natural leader, knows how to rally troops and such.

As I said, notice how he doesn't impose a structure; his flock imposes it on themselves. He roles with it, because, naturally, he values Se.

I think Taxi Driver is a better film for what they're trying to convey.

What! Taxi Driver and Fight Club are two completely different films!

Anyhow... Cornelius? I thought his name was Jack! Wow, is it? =/

He actually never says his name. He just says "I am Jack's..." in reference to the series of biology descriptions he finds in the basement of the house. Otherwise, why would he suddenly realise that he was called Tyler Durden at the end? It wouldn't make sense.

I think Brad is LIE. I find it hard to seperate the characters from the actors most of the time.

I never really saw the argument for LIE. I don't think Rick's claim on socionics.us really justifies that he's an LIE; it's far too brief and surface-focused. It's the kind of claim that makes people like Fabio think he is an LIE.

Hmmmm....
I think the Alpha vibe may be coming from both of the lead actors. I'm fairly certain Edward Norton is ILE, and Brad Pitt seems Alpha-ish to me. Anyways...

• Cornelius -
  • IJ Temperament seems fairly obvious to me from the routine, generally unexpressive demeanor and manner
  • Stimulated and and activated by , as seen in the support group meetings
  • Seems to have a latent value for , generally infantile and innocuous
  • Completely sucks at
  • I see more of a conflictor relationship with Tyler, with his source of low-self esteem (read: super-ego) taking on a mind of its own
• Tyler - (maybe )
  • In my estimation, blatant constant displays of , with power and mobilization on parade
  • Seems very capable of relating to people's attitudes and exploiting their emotional weaknesses, and even though he seems able to organize this huge attack, I get the impression it's more than .
  • Very manipulative in addition to his more overt displays of power, using his ability to predict the actions of individuals, suggesting
  • Please note that creative means that someone "cares about others". He's good at it, not nice about it.
• Marla - (maybe )
  • I don't think the is hard to see at all; seems to be "out of the moment", victim description seems to fit
  • Where's the ? I can't see it at all.
  • Little concern with external appearance
  • Very critical and derisive, making -like criticisms
• Bob - umm....no comment

I could see arguments for Beta, but I'm more willing to talk functions than quadras. The interesting thing about this film socionically is that it is Alpha that represents the status quo and Gamma that represents the revolution. This turns the usual convention on its head, and makes the story more interesting and complex. But it's a story, and the characters are exaggerations, which make it hard to type them completely.

Good point.

Ezra please cease your tirade of idiocy. You remind me too much of me sometimes.

What! My arguments were fair.

i agree w/ ezra. book tyler is really Te.

I want to read the book. Do you think Tyler in the film exudes more Se than he does in the novel?

Has anyone else read the book?

hmm.. yeah probably. but I think i see more Ti than Se even. Tyler is a visionary, not a mob boss. he dominates people by ideals and know-how, not brute force/intimidation. send in the ESTPs.

I'd say quite a few mob bosses were LSIs, actually. Anyway, if he was a visionary, surely he'd have strong Ni, not just valued Ni.

[olduser]

I want to read the book. Do you think Tyler in the film exudes more Se than he does in the novel?

Has anyone else read the book?
.

book is very similar, but tyler has more lines and the big difference is he touts much more practical knowledge.

[machintruc]

I thought Marla was EIE, because she's rigid-looking, pretty much like CP6's who lack motivation (she's Intimate Four)

This is reminiscent of Helena Bonham Carter, who's -+- EIE too.

[1981slater]

Marla is not very smart, loves to fuck and doesn't care about money --> alpha SF

[machintruc]

Marla is not very smart, loves to fuck and doesn't care about money --> alpha SF

Marla isn't very smart because she's a chick (lol). That doesn't mean she's Alpha SF, especially when is so clear.

[Creepy-bg]

Marla isn't very smart because she's a chick (lol). That doesn't mean she's Alpha SF, especially when is so clear.

oh machintruc... you silly frog you

[Ezra]

Marla is not very smart, loves to fuck and doesn't care about money --> alpha SF

lol

Marla isn't very smart because she's a chick (lol). That doesn't mean she's Alpha SF, especially when is so clear.

lol i nu machinetruck woz mysoginistic lol