ESTP/INFJ relationship ?

[Creepy-]

As an INFJ, I have a hard time leaving bad relationships. I've been dating an ESTP for 8 years. I see him as a con artist, unethical, manipulating, and so on....However, on the good side-he is fun, and attentive to me-when we are alone. I end up putting myself in his place-how did he get that way? He deserves to be loved unconditionally I tell myself, (though he really loves himself a lot already). So, I ignore the bad(let him be who he is), and focus on the good-so I'm still there. I truly believe in trying to get along with everyone-whatever it takes...

But what is his excuse? I give him my opinions-he tells me he could give a crap what they are...I bore him with my conversation-he says he's not listening anyway, but being nice to me by letting me "go on". He doesn't want me to "drag" him down with my dark moods (however, he gets plenty of his own, I'm his shadow you know).

I have had 3 nice breakup conversations this year alone. He ignores them, and calls me back within 2 weeks. I go back. It's like a magnetic pull between us that won't disconnect. I know what's in my head-but where is he coming from in keeping me around??

Could it be that his hidden agenda is to be loved-I have the ability to love unconditionally. Is it because he is my shadow, (I sometimes become like him)? Trust me, even INFJs can be a lot of fun-we may look like the librarian, but she's the one fantasies are made of...

Ok, I'm rambling. I'm new here. Just trying to get some insight..Any comments would be appreciated.

[Joy]

umm are you SURE about these types I was with my contrary for 3.5 years and that seems rather unbelievable... conflicting relations is even worse than contrary... are these MBTI types or Socionics?

[Rocky]

It sounds like conflict to me. She said she thought he was unethical (Fi), and manipulative (Se), which is where the conflicts are coming from.

[Creepy-]

I'm pretty sure about the types. We both took a test on humanetrics. I then took the Sociionics type test. I always come up INFJ. He is undoubtedly an ESTP by all the descriptions I've read.

[Joy]

stop talking to him

[Creepy-pokeball]

Time to quit caring about this temperament mumbo jumbo and take care of saying laters~! to him.

[Creepy-]

How did we last 8 years? I give him what he needs. With my intuition, I know what he needs. As long as I give him what he needs, he seems to cherish me, and that makes me feel secure. So yes, I talk to him-and he pretends to listen, but hey, maybe I can be out in left field sometimes.

He has taught me what I needed also. To think before I speak, to not get too opionated, to not worry so much about my health, etc. He points this stuff out to me, it stings at first, but he's right. I then admit the fault, and really try to work on it.

I try to point out his faults, but he will tell me he has none. It's as if I am on a mission to save him from himself-to get him to admit the faults, like he did for me. Could he possibly think I'm right somewhere deep inside himself? I am patient and kind to him, despite how he is to others. I am a "turn the other cheek", "kill em with kindness" sort of person.

I am confused by the pull we have with each other. I am who I am-and he is who he is. I do not always like what he does, but that positive attitude is so contagious. They say INFJs are complex. I feel the complexity. Should there not be a simple explanation of why he is attracted to me, of all people he could be with (everyone adores him)?

Are there any other ESTPs who are attracted to INFJs-their conflicting partner?

[Creepy-pokeball]

humanetrics would be NiFe and SeTi in theory but it is the massively popular free test so who knows.

[Rocky]

Should there not be a simple explanation of why he is attracted to me, of all people he could be with (everyone adores him)?

Ahh... do you have pictures? :wink:

[Creepy-]

I have no pictures-my digital camera/computer connection is messed up at the moment.

I can describe him as being about 6'6" tall, stocky built, overweight. Piercing brown eyes with a huge grin. It's the grin that really attracts people. He is not that good looking, but has a personality that attracts people like "stink on water". Mysterious, will tell people what they want to hear-a real salesman.

I don't usually like to describe myself. People are attracted to me, and I feel wrong describing my looks. I try not to draw attention to myself. But I'll try to "draw" a picture for you. I have been told that I look like Shania Twain. I'm 5'6". slender build, dark hair, my eyes change from brown to brilliant green. My bf often tells me that when he sees Jennifer Love Hewitt, Sela Ward, Eva Longoria and Terri Hatcher he thinks of me. I don't like for people to be attracted to me for looks, I am a much deeper person than that...I would hope that my looks are not what keeps him in an 8 year relationship with me thus far....Or can an ESTP be that superficial???

I'm assuming you are asking for pics to compare to the Visual Interpretation of personality type, so this is the best I can do. Do we fit the bill??

[Joy]

Rocky, have you ever posted pics? You don't seem to be shy about telling other people to.

[Rocky]

I'm assuming you are asking for pics to compare to the Visual Interpretation of personality type, so this is the best I can do. Do we fit the bill??

Umm... wow, sorry. When I said "post pictures", I was referring to the "why is he attracted to me" thing you said. It was more of a joke like saying, "If you two are conflicts, then it must be becuase you are good-looking". Of course, I didn't want you to take that seriously as the reason... or is it? Anyway, I think it's too complicated to try and describe things like why people get together, as I think that goes beyond socionic relationships.

[Joy]

Yeah. The thing that I keep telling people over and over is this: We teach people how to treat us. That's why each partner's sense of self-worth is essential in relationships.

[Rocky]

Rocky, have you ever posted pics? You don't seem to be shy about telling other people to.

Yeah, I have.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=jhpr84

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=jhprgn

[Joy]

oic

sorry, I missed it somehow

[Creepy-]

Umm... wow, sorry. When I said "post pictures", I was referring to the "why is he attracted to me" thing you said. It was more of a joke

Hey Rocky
That's one of the wierd things about us INFJs-we don't always get jokes. My friends are always shaking their heads when they have to explain 'em to me. My bf is always saying to me "IT'S A JOKE". I guess I just take things too seriously -one of those things to work on..

[Creepy-pokeball]

What's your dogs name and breed or mix type? That beach looks very similar to the Cannon Beach state park areas of Oregon except that I cant make out which species of plants Im looking at (not enough detail). Im guessing probably different but I really havent looked at where you are from.

[Rocky]

Rocky, have you ever posted pics? You don't seem to be shy about telling other people to.

Yeah, I have.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=jhpr84

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=jhprgn

oh schizz, you look SO MUCH like this SLI kid in my geometry class. SO MUCH.

Yeah... SLIness!

(you're like the third person on here who said something like that to me.)

What's your dogs name and breed or mix type? That beach looks very similar to the Cannon Beach state park areas of Oregon except that I cant make out which species of plants Im looking at (not enough detail). Im guessing probably different but I really havent looked at where you are from.

Ahh.. her name is Sandy. She a mix of some sorts, definatly part German Shepard, maybe even half Shibi Enu (or whatever the name is of that Japanese hunting dog.)

And that's not actually my house. That was taken in Cape Cod.

[Creepy-pokeball]

haha so cute. Cape Cod sounds fun... I like the isolated beaches altho Im not sure if Cape Cod is all that isolated "feeling" or not considering it is well known and all.

[Creepy-]

Chibikeba
You make a good point. As I said, I tried to leave the relationship by having a sensible conversation as to why it wasn't quite working-putting most the "blame" on me, (he's not one to admit any faults at all). When we got back together, he did indeed say how he really didn't want to have to "start over" in the dating world.

We don't live together, I feel most at ease when I'm home alone-but I go to him when he needs me. He introduces his drama into my life when I'm around him, I take on his responsibilities, etc. He is definitely a narcissist, making this split more difficult if you understand the dynamics of narcissism as a personality disorder and its effect on others. I wonder-is narcissim a common trait amongst ESTPs?

So, earlier everyone suggested not talking to him. Is it really just that simple with an ESTP? Don't show him any more attention? And he just fades away? It's against my nature to purposely neglect people, but he's getting rather tiring with all the "attention seeking" he requires. Some of us can only take so much "fun" in life........

[Forest-Dragon]

He has taught me what I needed also. To think before I speak, to not get too opionated, to not worry so much about my health, etc. He points this stuff out to me, it stings at first, but he's right.

I don't usually like to pass judgement on relationships (my Fe is weak), but this part of what you said is really concerning - how can someone be 'right' about the correct way to behave? Everything about MBTI or Socionics tells us that there are different personal preferences and thus what is ethically 'right' for people is going to be dependent on their type (excepting a few universal human laws such as respect and tolerance). How could anyone else know and pass judgement on whether we should 'worry so much' about our health and 'not get too opinionated' if what is right is subjective.

However, the fact that you said that the comments sting at first indicates that they are hitting you in your POLR (Se), which is characteristic of a conflicting relation.

I wonder-is narcissim a common trait amongst ESTPs?

Yes, I think its the associated personality disorder. Check out http://www.the16types.info/types-ESTP.php

[Creepy-]

Forest-Dragon
Thanks for the link. I am new to this site, and to learning about the personality types. I have read Oldham's book and now understand the connection with Socionics. ESTP and being most narcissist-makes sense.

And I think it's a narcissistic trait to get people where it hurts. Or a conflicting trait-however you look at it in my case. I know my kindness and willingness to love unconditionally was/is being exploited. But I know I am beginning to not believe in myself....That's why I feel it's time to leave this relationship. We can not do anything more for each other. However, I can not leave in anger. I have this need to know how I can leave in love.

I've learned from being a guest on this site. To learn is to grow. Thank you all for your insight.

[07490]

umm are you SURE about these types I was with my contrary for 3.5 years and that seems rather unbelievable... conflicting relations is even worse than contrary... are these MBTI types or Socionics?

stop talking to him

yeah, don't talk to him anymore. How'd you guys last 8 years like that?

Time to quit caring about this temperament mumbo jumbo and take care of saying laters~! to him.

LOL that was funny.

[Jarno]

I have had 3 nice breakup conversations this year alone. He ignores them, and calls me back within 2 weeks. I go back. It's like a magnetic pull between us that won't disconnect. I know what's in my head-but where is he coming from in keeping me around??

Could it be that his hidden agenda is to be loved-I have the ability to love unconditionally. .

Here's some insight. You don't need to look at hidden agenda etc.

You are in a conflict relationship. They happen the same way as written in Socionicis relationships descriptions. Breakups and magnetic pulls are an essential part of the description. Read a couple of those and you'll recognize a lot. The outcome of your relationship is already set.

Don't try to explain everything, you're in the worst relationship possible, period. It's a dangerous one to.

BTW I've had one for 4 years. It was my reason for studying socionics and find a dual.

[Suz]

How did we last 8 years? I give him what he needs. With my intuition, I know what he needs. As long as I give him what he needs, he seems to cherish me, and that makes me feel secure. So yes, I talk to him-and he pretends to listen, but hey, maybe I can be out in left field sometimes.

He has taught me what I needed also. To think before I speak, to not get too opionated, to not worry so much about my health, etc. He points this stuff out to me, it stings at first, but he's right. I then admit the fault, and really try to work on it.

I try to point out his faults, but he will tell me he has none. It's as if I am on a mission to save him from himself-to get him to admit the faults, like he did for me. Could he possibly think I'm right somewhere deep inside himself? I am patient and kind to him, despite how he is to others. I am a "turn the other cheek", "kill em with kindness" sort of person.

I am confused by the pull we have with each other. I am who I am-and he is who he is. I do not always like what he does, but that positive attitude is so contagious. They say INFJs are complex. I feel the complexity. Should there not be a simple explanation of why he is attracted to me, of all people he could be with (everyone adores him)?

Are there any other ESTPs who are attracted to INFJs-their conflicting partner?

INFJ tends to be socionics INFp. ESTp and INFp are DUALS, not conflicting. It's an intense attraction, and it happens exactly the way socionics describes it. Very accurate, I didn't think it would happen, but to my surprise it did. Probably because INFp types need someone as perceptive as ESTp to recognize their very subtle flirting.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It sounds like you haven't really made up your mind fully on what you want to do with this guy? He's a bit of a bad boy, but then again you like that somewhat. Or you would just cut this guy out of your life completely. And how are you conflictors? Conflictors don't have magnetic attraction, maybe at first but it soon turns sour and repel-y.

What do you want to do with him, why are you asking other people on how you should handle another person, why would we know? It's all up to you babe. ;p

[leftylib]

How did we last 8 years? I give him what he needs. With my intuition, I know what he needs. As long as I give him what he needs, he seems to cherish me, and that makes me feel secure. So yes, I talk to him-and he pretends to listen, but hey, maybe I can be out in left field sometimes.

He has taught me what I needed also. To think before I speak, to not get too opionated, to not worry so much about my health, etc. He points this stuff out to me, it stings at first, but he's right. I then admit the fault, and really try to work on it.

I try to point out his faults, but he will tell me he has none. It's as if I am on a mission to save him from himself-to get him to admit the faults, like he did for me. Could he possibly think I'm right somewhere deep inside himself? I am patient and kind to him, despite how he is to others. I am a "turn the other cheek", "kill em with kindness" sort of person.

I am confused by the pull we have with each other. I am who I am-and he is who he is. I do not always like what he does, but that positive attitude is so contagious. They say INFJs are complex. I feel the complexity. Should there not be a simple explanation of why he is attracted to me, of all people he could be with (everyone adores him)?

Are there any other ESTPs who are attracted to INFJs-their conflicting partner?

he taught you to care less about your health and you think that's positive? this shows, too, that he's lacking his INFP dual who focuses on health all the time. you guys need to cut the bullshit. conflict types that insist on staying together are vapid and destructive, i think. i think there's probably some major enabling going on here and probably some narcissism to me that's the common denominator between conflict types who insist on continuing.

lefty
enfj
4w5

[leftylib]

Chibikeba
You make a good point. As I said, I tried to leave the relationship by having a sensible conversation as to why it wasn't quite working-putting most the "blame" on me, (he's not one to admit any faults at all). When we got back together, he did indeed say how he really didn't want to have to "start over" in the dating world.

We don't live together, I feel most at ease when I'm home alone-but I go to him when he needs me. He introduces his drama into my life when I'm around him, I take on his responsibilities, etc. He is definitely a narcissist, making this split more difficult if you understand the dynamics of narcissism as a personality disorder and its effect on others. I wonder-is narcissim a common trait amongst ESTPs?

So, earlier everyone suggested not talking to him. Is it really just that simple with an ESTP? Don't show him any more attention? And he just fades away? It's against my nature to purposely neglect people, but he's getting rather tiring with all the "attention seeking" he requires. Some of us can only take so much "fun" in life........

Of course narcissism is a trait of ESTPS! OF COURSE IT IS. They take in information with TI. It doesn't GET MORE NARCISSITIC, but there's a reason they formed that way and it will work with someone else, because INFP's are pretty self involved too.

lefty
enfj
4w5

[leftylib]

Forest-Dragon
Thanks for the link. I am new to this site, and to learning about the personality types. I have read Oldham's book and now understand the connection with Socionics. ESTP and being most narcissist-makes sense.

And I think it's a narcissistic trait to get people where it hurts. Or a conflicting trait-however you look at it in my case. I know my kindness and willingness to love unconditionally was/is being exploited. But I know I am beginning to not believe in myself....That's why I feel it's time to leave this relationship. We can not do anything more for each other. However, I can not leave in anger. I have this need to know how I can leave in love.

I've learned from being a guest on this site. To learn is to grow. Thank you all for your insight.

I think instead of focusing on leaving in love you should focus on leaving safely and you should also admit to yourself that you got off on telling someone else what a fuck up they are and put your energy somewhere else.

lefty
enfj
4w5