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Thread: The Delta dream

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    idolatrie's Avatar
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    Default The Delta dream

    So all that talk of books and brownies (the chocolate kind) in UDPs thread got me and unefille thinking about what is the ultimate delta dream?

    Rationals: to have a beautiful home life: intimate dinner parties, curling up before the fire with a glass of wine, sumptuous furnishings (but not ostentatious!) - lots of luxury and comfort

    Irrationals: to live in a series of beautiful moments: picnics, boating excursions, travelling to foreign cities - all characterised by spontaneity, randomness and lots of laughing

    What do you think, deltas? Come on, let's daydream for a while!
    allez cuisine!

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    I wanted to add that when I see the ideal 'home' life, I see us doing a lot of stupid things. Like baking cake and getting flour over everything, including my hair and throwing sprinkles at each other. Or getting coffee and the paper ending up by chasing each other around the garden (with leaves in autumn colours, of course). Or, I don't know, playing footsie under the table when at dinner with 'proper people' like in-laws, I guess.

    There's always this element of fun and 'acting up' - trying to make even the most mundane tasks (like cleaning the dishes or doing taxes) a little fun and playful.
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Or, I don't know, playing footsie under the table when at dinner with 'proper people' like in-laws, I guess.

    <3

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    There's always this element of fun and 'acting up' - trying to make even the most mundane tasks (like cleaning the dishes or doing taxes) a little fun and playful.
    <3 <3 <3 <3
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I can do without the footsie, but, the whole mundane task and make it fun thing does sound good.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Bleh.

    As an unofficial Delta, I think "to live in a series of beautiful moments: picnics, boating excursions, travelling to foreign cities - all characterised by spontaneity, randomness and lots of laughing" is great.

    The other stuff is eh.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    yeah and that. that more than the mundane shit.

    Man i'm tired.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Rationals: to have a beautiful home life: intimate dinner parties, curling up before the fire with a glass of wine, sumptuous furnishings (but not ostentatious!) - lots of luxury and comfort
    I think the same can go for Alpha rationals. I don't see anything Te/Fi > Ti/Fe, juts strong Si/Ne.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I've thought about this before, I can be serious, but I enjoy and prefer being silly. Random is a word thats been used to describe me. Guess i've been called worse.

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    Delta dream is better than Alpha dream.
    Alpha is stupid.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I thought about writing more here. Some situational examples. Na i'll just think of them. It's brought back some cool memories for me tho. Hey it's even made me think about yesterday. I might elaborate more later. Such interesting tit-bits! (no not tits..it's an expression of giving little bit at a time..i'm sure you know this but as I think Minde says about assuming colloquialisms, or something)

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    I thought it was "tidbits" but apparently it can be spelled (spelt) both ways

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I thought it was "tidbits" but apparently it can be spelled (spelt) both ways
    Some say potato and others say potato

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Some say potato and others say potato
    I say potito.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    OMG an LSE! This forum could use a few more of those. :-)
    haha, I didn't think we were that rare!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I thought about writing more here. Some situational examples. Na i'll just think of them. It's brought back some cool memories for me tho. Hey it's even made me think about yesterday. I might elaborate more later. Such interesting tit-bits!
    please do write more, Cyclops! I had wanted this to be something like a collaborative project: everyone adds on a room or a particular scene or something.

    I went for the rational/irrational distinction since I think that while we share similar intentions, the method of executing that dream image is so different.
    allez cuisine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Some say potato and others say potato
    I say potito.
    I was having a beta dream and you guys wake me up to come to a crappy delta dream?
    LSI

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    I was having a beta dream
    Oooh, a beta dream - I'll bet it was kinky!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Oooh, a beta dream - I'll bet it was kinky!
    Yeah, I was the alpha male and had lots of female beta NF slaves, which I treated better than the slaves from other quadras, and way better than other beta STs.
    LSI

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    Aww, sorry we woke you

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Rationals: to have a beautiful home life: intimate dinner parties, curling up before the fire with a glass of wine, sumptuous furnishings (but not ostentatious!) - lots of luxury and comfort
    That does sound really good! I agree that this is very Si though, so would be common to Alpha in ways as well. The more Fi/Te aspects that would make it different are kind of hard for me to give a good articulation to.

    The closest I can come is an atmosphere of emotional closeness, a sense that anything and everything can be shared without being judged, being so much on the same wavelength that words fail to capture what this person means to you or you to them, a serene place to relax, safely, where things not said might still be intimately communicated with a touch.

    Te is very hard for me to describe. Perhaps it might be so simple as productive activity. In this context maybe it reveals itself as mutual support, both working towards something better. This would need much more elaboration.

    Haha, this probably all sounds extremely idealistic, but we are talking about dreams, aren't we?
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    I don't know.

    - Keeping an INFj safe, happy, and pleas(ur)ed
    - Working / having a career / spending my time rationally towards some worthy end.

    Everything else is pretty much just details.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I guess there should be something about spiritual development in there too, but I'm not sure. And health/being healthy.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I'll just wander, really.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I thought about writing more here. Some situational examples. Na i'll just think of them. It's brought back some cool memories for me tho. Hey it's even made me think about yesterday. I might elaborate more later. Such interesting tit-bits! (no not tits..it's an expression of giving little bit at a time..i'm sure you know this but as I think Minde says about assuming colloquialisms, or something)
    Hm, what? What do I say?

    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    So all that talk of books and brownies (the chocolate kind) in UDPs thread got me and unefille thinking about what is the ultimate delta dream?

    Rationals: to have a beautiful home life: intimate dinner parties, curling up before the fire with a glass of wine, sumptuous furnishings (but not ostentatious!) - lots of luxury and comfort

    Irrationals: to live in a series of beautiful moments: picnics, boating excursions, travelling to foreign cities - all characterised by spontaneity, randomness and lots of laughing

    What do you think, deltas? Come on, let's daydream for a while!
    Um, yes, that sounds nice, I guess. I mean, I can't exactly argue against it. But something's missing. Munenori touches on it, I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    That does sound really good! I agree that this is very Si though, so would be common to Alpha in ways as well. The more Fi/Te aspects that would make it different are kind of hard for me to give a good articulation to.

    The closest I can come is an atmosphere of emotional closeness, a sense that anything and everything can be shared without being judged, being so much on the same wavelength that words fail to capture what this person means to you or you to them, a serene place to relax, safely, where things not said might still be intimately communicated with a touch.

    Te is very hard for me to describe. Perhaps it might be so simple as productive activity. In this context maybe it reveals itself as mutual support, both working towards something better. This would need much more elaboration.

    Haha, this probably all sounds extremely idealistic, but we are talking about dreams, aren't we?
    "An atmosphere of emotional closeness" - yes, that's more like it.

    Family - that would be a huge, if not the most important, part of my ideal world. Having someplace/one to come home to. To have the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me. To have certain people who I know will always love me, and I will always love them. And a sense of security, that's important, too. To not have to worry about attack or desperate need. Or being alone.


    On the difference between rational and irrational, though, I think you've got it right so far. At least, when I asked my sister (ENFp) she said she'd prefer the irrational where as I think I'd usually prefer the rational. There's some cross-over, though. Both are acceptable.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    I didn't even think about one aspect of things: the relational aspect. Probably because I see that as a luxoury. However, it would overlook one of the most important reasons as to why I am actually here in socionics, what started this whole seeking that brought me to many things, including this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    The closest I can come is an atmosphere of emotional closeness, a sense that anything and everything can be shared without being judged, being so much on the same wavelength that words fail to capture what this person means to you or you to them, a serene place to relax, safely, where things not said might still be intimately communicated with a touch.

    Te is very hard for me to describe. Perhaps it might be so simple as productive activity. In this context maybe it reveals itself as mutual support, both working towards something better. This would need much more elaboration.
    ... How all of this relates to me is that, ideally, in a real, secure, long term relationship (marriage?), I'd be able to stop worrying, somewhat. Ideally I wouldn't have to worry, I would be contented, with someone's relationship status towards me. There is a major element of doubt and uncertainty, or rather, just a disclarity, or indifference, when it comes to general relationships. But if I had one person, or perhaps as Minde talks about below, an actual family, where I was sure of people's relationships towards me, and them not wanting to change those things, that would be really nice. I don't really expect that or think of it (as per my above response), but I suppose it is something I am actually looking for.

    It would be such a relief for me to know I could just trust someone and be like "Finally, here is someone that wants me to be in their life forever. And I can be as close as I want to be because they want to be close to me".

    It would also be someone I could take care of. Someone, or a group of people, I could really know who needed and wanted me. It would be really nice to have someone that wanted me to be with them, and I'd be able to just do stuff for them and make sure they were safe - somemone who wanted that. Or even needed it. It's disappointing when I start to open up to people and try to do more things for them, and then realized that they don't need me so much in their life, or they don't really want me there. I've realized that the disappointment is there because I have an expectation for a very close relationship.

    In a lot of ways I've come to realize that certain types of relationships are just not fulfilling to me, so, something with a much greater depth is actually appealing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Um, yes, that sounds nice, I guess. I mean, I can't exactly argue against it. But something's missing. Munenori touches on it, I think...


    "An atmosphere of emotional closeness" - yes, that's more like it.

    Family - that would be a huge, if not the most important, part of my ideal world. Having someplace/one to come home to. To have the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me. To have certain people who I know will always love me, and I will always love them. And a sense of security, that's important, too. To not have to worry about attack or desperate need. Or being alone.
    That sounds really nice. It also sounds forieng to me in some ways. I would never really be able to say "the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me". That sounds really nice but I don't know what that means - I don't have any experience with that. But the next line, "To have certain people who I know will always love me, and I will always love them" - I understand that more so. A lot of the rest is pretty much the reciprocal image of things I suppose - I see it as having people I can at last be truly loyal to, in a very deep and meaningful way. If I could have something solid in my life that I could build around, something that wouldn't be changing or fleeting, that would be a very nice thing. It would give me something to protect, and actually care about.

    I think I may be a bit numb to all of that though, or at least at this moment while I write (perhaps it is because I am working on papers). It is still news to me that people actually want stuff like this.


    PS: Perhaps S types, or ST types, can be really shallow minded because they take whatever they see around them as being "the case", and don't really understand that just because it is not before their eyes it does not really exist.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    idolatrie's Avatar
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    Yeah, see that emotional/relational aspect is something that I would want to be part of the whole dream, but I had no idea how to express it. I can describe physical manifestations of that, but I don't know how to say 'this is the emotional dimension to the scene'.

    Like at a dinner party, when unefille inevitably starts playing footsies under the table, knowing that I can just glance across the table at my partner, raise an eyebrow in unefille's direction, and he'd just know what I'm referring to, share a (fond/amused) smile in our wineglasses. You know, just that sense of togetherness and understanding. And just silly things like doing the washing up together, two pairs of hand and the companionship making the time fly quicker, so you can sit down and relax when the party is over, and the house is quiet again, lie tangled up on the couch. And I don't just mean having that romantic relationship there. I think I'm trying to allude to what Minde called "the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me". Yeah, having a partner/lover/husband (oh god, I'm too young to use the 'h' word!) there would be a big part of it, but I also need my own family, my friends, this core group whom I know I belong to/with/in.

    And all these things are perhaps the most appealing thing to me also, but I don't know how to create and provide them myself: however, I do know I can create a beautiful house, I know I can look after someone's needs. That's what I can bring, can provide in this dream. And yeah, with no emotional dimension, it's just a cold lifeless room - but I think that's also a fear the LSE has, you can provide the physical, but you fundamentally need *help* accessing the warmth and kinship you crave.

    I love the irrational dream too. I spend a lot of my time with delta irrationals, and I adore them to bits. But at the end of the day, I'm not looking for that wandering restless lifestyle. I need a home base, a retreat, a place (both physical and emotional) where I feel secure and know it is 'mine'. Who doesn't love travel and boating and picnics? But that's a holiday, not a life I could live.
    allez cuisine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    The closest I can come is an atmosphere of emotional closeness, a sense that anything and everything can be shared without being judged, being so much on the same wavelength that words fail to capture what this person means to you or you to them, a serene place to relax, safely, where things not said might still be intimately communicated with a touch.
    *closes eyes* *deep breath*

    I can't even begin to tell you what it feels like when I feel that sense of harmony with ONE person, let alone a group of people.

    There's something about talking to someone, where it almost feels like you're talking to yourself. They get you. They understand why you're saying what you're saying. They suggest something to you and it appeals to you every time. You open up in such a way where there is no fear... there isn't an awkward wtf, ok, that's weird feeling eminating from them. They understand your essence.

    You can explain something to them, maybe something that you don't talk about very much (maybe things that are misunderstood anytime you bring it up) and know... just KNOW that they're going to understand exactly what you're saying.

    There isn't any fear of some suggested activity being out of my comfort zone. There's complete trust in the people around you.

    That is my dream setting.


    Edit: It's almost like you and the people you're with are speaking a different language than what you use with the rest of the world. Where everyone fully understands one another.
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    I identify much more with the rational dream.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I didn't even think about one aspect of things: the relational aspect. Probably because I see that as a luxoury. However, it would overlook one of the most important reasons as to why I am actually here in socionics, what started this whole seeking that brought me to many things, including this forum.



    ... How all of this relates to me is that, ideally, in a real, secure, long term relationship (marriage?), I'd be able to stop worrying, somewhat. Ideally I wouldn't have to worry, I would be contented, with someone's relationship status towards me. There is a major element of doubt and uncertainty, or rather, just a disclarity, or indifference, when it comes to general relationships. But if I had one person, or perhaps as Minde talks about below, an actual family, where I was sure of people's relationships towards me, and them not wanting to change those things, that would be really nice. I don't really expect that or think of it (as per my above response), but I suppose it is something I am actually looking for.

    It would be such a relief for me to know I could just trust someone and be like "Finally, here is someone that wants me to be in their life forever. And I can be as close as I want to be because they want to be close to me".

    It would also be someone I could take care of. Someone, or a group of people, I could really know who needed and wanted me. It would be really nice to have someone that wanted me to be with them, and I'd be able to just do stuff for them and make sure they were safe - somemone who wanted that. Or even needed it. It's disappointing when I start to open up to people and try to do more things for them, and then realized that they don't need me so much in their life, or they don't really want me there. I've realized that the disappointment is there because I have an expectation for a very close relationship.

    In a lot of ways I've come to realize that certain types of relationships are just not fulfilling to me, so, something with a much greater depth is actually appealing.



    That sounds really nice. It also sounds forieng to me in some ways. I would never really be able to say "the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me". That sounds really nice but I don't know what that means - I don't have any experience with that. But the next line, "To have certain people who I know will always love me, and I will always love them" - I understand that more so. A lot of the rest is pretty much the reciprocal image of things I suppose - I see it as having people I can at last be truly loyal to, in a very deep and meaningful way. If I could have something solid in my life that I could build around, something that wouldn't be changing or fleeting, that would be a very nice thing. It would give me something to protect, and actually care about.

    I think I may be a bit numb to all of that though, or at least at this moment while I write (perhaps it is because I am working on papers). It is still news to me that people actually want stuff like this.


    PS: Perhaps S types, or ST types, can be really shallow minded because they take whatever they see around them as being "the case", and don't really understand that just because it is not before their eyes it does not really exist.
    UDP, could you explain what you mean by the last bolded part?

    About the first thing bolded:

    I'm not an INFj woman, but I would be so bold as to say that providing security would not be the main need in a relationship with them. Speaking for myself as a guy, my ideal relationship with a woman involves love that grows every day (as cheesy as it may sound). It doesn't have to be awesome at the beginning, the only requirement is that it will always get better with time. So, in a way, it has to be always changing or evolving, even in very little increments. Related to something that was talked about in another thread, that INFjs might have of not being able to succesfully break ties with people they once cared about (or still care about) is definitely something that is tough for me. The fact that I could get into a relationship where the love just doesn't grow at some point is something that I try to avoid at all costs, because then, quite frankly, I'm f-cked. It would feel like there is nothing else to look forward to that would be as rewarding. I really hate the idea of a ceiling when it comes to a relationship.

    Back to what I bolded, what I find an attractive quality in STs is their consistency, not the other way around. They just don't wake up one day and change something they've been doing for a long time. I am refering to their actions rather than their feelings, since I have no clue sometimes what goes on inside that mind. But that also goes back to what I'm referring to in the first paragraph, in that in time, by understanding each other better, the relationship also gets better.

    My Delta dream would involve happiness and comfort, and constant growth in terms of relationships and activities. I know that the cheesy meter just went up a few notches, but it's what I would want .

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    I wonder how much subtypes come into this - since most of 'where you fit in' along the spectrum of the dream seems to be the degree you emphasise the irrational functions over the rational functions (to me).

    I know the description I have idolatrie to put up and the description I added to it comes across as very light. That doesn't mean that I woudn't want the warmth and nourishing and stability described in the rational dream. Rather (and this might be a personal preference and not type related), I, as a person, crave change and new external circumstances (such as new places, new information, new people) to learn about and yes, to adapt to.

    Idolatrie mentioned that the irrational dream seemed like a glorious holiday, but not like life. That brought two thoughts to mind: first of all, the other person would be my stability - the relationship, the bond would be my homing call. I know no matter what, my dream of life would involve a lot of movement and wide-ranging activities that if not necessary taking me to other countries, would take me away from the 'home' a lot - I need a home that isn't measured about how long and how much I invest physically in the homestead, but by the depth of the understood bond.

    But also, that the rational dream to me seems like a holiday. Like, once in a while, after too much movement, too much scatteredness, too much everything, you paused and sort of retreated together into this cocoon of home-ishness as though to reaffirm the specific bonds invested in the home.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Yeah, see that emotional/relational aspect is something that I would want to be part of the whole dream, but I had no idea how to express it. I can describe physical manifestations of that, but I don't know how to say 'this is the emotional dimension to the scene'.

    Like at a dinner party, when unefille inevitably starts playing footsies under the table, knowing that I can just glance across the table at my partner, raise an eyebrow in unefille's direction, and he'd just know what I'm referring to, share a (fond/amused) smile in our wineglasses. You know, just that sense of togetherness and understanding. And just silly things like doing the washing up together, two pairs of hand and the companionship making the time fly quicker, so you can sit down and relax when the party is over, and the house is quiet again, lie tangled up on the couch. And I don't just mean having that romantic relationship there. I think I'm trying to allude to what Minde called "the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me". Yeah, having a partner/lover/husband (oh god, I'm too young to use the 'h' word!) there would be a big part of it, but I also need my own family, my friends, this core group whom I know I belong to/with/in.

    And all these things are perhaps the most appealing thing to me also, but I don't know how to create and provide them myself: however, I do know I can create a beautiful house, I know I can look after someone's needs. That's what I can bring, can provide in this dream. And yeah, with no emotional dimension, it's just a cold lifeless room - but I think that's also a fear the LSE has, you can provide the physical, but you fundamentally need *help* accessing the warmth and kinship you crave.

    I love the irrational dream too. I spend a lot of my time with delta irrationals, and I adore them to bits. But at the end of the day, I'm not looking for that wandering restless lifestyle. I need a home base, a retreat, a place (both physical and emotional) where I feel secure and know it is 'mine'. Who doesn't love travel and boating and picnics? But that's a holiday, not a life I could live.
    I understand what you are talking about here. The part about having other relationships is something that I would want as well "IF" I get married (it's like the apocalypse, no one knows when it's coming). Of course, romantically it's exclusive, but frienship and family interaction is something that I would never neglect, since it's very important to me (well, some family ). For example, right now I'm developing a friendship with an ISTp that I know will probably be for life, and I sure hope that it stays that way. I've seen people who even at their old age and situations have found time to have reunions with highschool friends every year, and that's something that I would like to happen.

    Though it might be pushing it, having a chef as a wife would be awesome. Well, it's a dream? There shouldn't be a limit to the things to ask for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Rationals: to have a beautiful home life: intimate dinner parties, curling up before the fire with a glass of wine, sumptuous furnishings (but not ostentatious!) - lots of luxury and comfort

    Irrationals: to live in a series of beautiful moments: picnics, boating excursions, travelling to foreign cities - all characterised by spontaneity, randomness and lots of laughing
    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    I love the irrational dream too. I spend a lot of my time with delta irrationals, and I adore them to bits. But at the end of the day, I'm not looking for that wandering restless lifestyle. I need a home base, a retreat, a place (both physical and emotional) where I feel secure and know it is 'mine'. Who doesn't love travel and boating and picnics? But that's a holiday, not a life I could live.
    I more closely identify with the Irrational dream.

    But I wanted to tie two points together.

    There is an element of restlessness, spontaneity, randomness in who I am. But if you look at my post above, there is something so appealing about grounding myself... settling into an environment that I can... relax, let go, not be so unsettled.

    That doesn't mean the spontaneity goes away, on the contrary, I think when I feel a full sense of... that trust and that groundedness in my environment, it allows the spontaneity and randomness I have to really blossom.

    I see the two dreams working in tandem with one another, although it does seem like my irrationality is constantly searching and restless, when I've found that sense of closeness and a place to settle, I'm so there.

    Hope that made some sense.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Yeah, see that emotional/relational aspect is something that I would want to be part of the whole dream, but I had no idea how to express it. I can describe physical manifestations of that, but I don't know how to say 'this is the emotional dimension to the scene'.

    Like at a dinner party, when unefille inevitably starts playing footsies under the table, knowing that I can just glance across the table at my partner, raise an eyebrow in unefille's direction, and he'd just know what I'm referring to, share a (fond/amused) smile in our wineglasses. You know, just that sense of togetherness and understanding. And just silly things like doing the washing up together, two pairs of hand and the companionship making the time fly quicker, so you can sit down and relax when the party is over, and the house is quiet again, lie tangled up on the couch. And I don't just mean having that romantic relationship there. I think I'm trying to allude to what Minde called "the warmth of multiple, entwined connections enveloping and nourishing me". Yeah, having a partner/lover/husband (oh god, I'm too young to use the 'h' word!) there would be a big part of it, but I also need my own family, my friends, this core group whom I know I belong to/with/in.

    And all these things are perhaps the most appealing thing to me also, but I don't know how to create and provide them myself: however, I do know I can create a beautiful house, I know I can look after someone's needs. That's what I can bring, can provide in this dream. And yeah, with no emotional dimension, it's just a cold lifeless room - but I think that's also a fear the LSE has, you can provide the physical, but you fundamentally need *help* accessing the warmth and kinship you crave.

    I love the irrational dream too. I spend a lot of my time with delta irrationals, and I adore them to bits. But at the end of the day, I'm not looking for that wandering restless lifestyle. I need a home base, a retreat, a place (both physical and emotional) where I feel secure and know it is 'mine'. Who doesn't love travel and boating and picnics? But that's a holiday, not a life I could live.
    The whole post I resonate with, particularly the bolded parts
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Haha, what a productive thread!

    tereg said:
    *closes eyes* *deep breath*

    I can't even begin to tell you what it feels like when I feel that sense of harmony with ONE person, let alone a group of people.

    There's something about talking to someone, where it almost feels like you're talking to yourself. They get you. They understand why you're saying what you're saying. They suggest something to you and it appeals to you every time. You open up in such a way where there is no fear... there isn't an awkward wtf, ok, that's weird feeling eminating from them. They understand your essence.

    You can explain something to them, maybe something that you don't talk about very much (maybe things that are misunderstood anytime you bring it up) and know... just KNOW that they're going to understand exactly what you're saying.

    There isn't any fear of some suggested activity being out of my comfort zone. There's complete trust in the people around you.

    That is my dream setting.


    Edit: It's almost like you and the people you're with are speaking a different language than what you use with the rest of the world. Where everyone fully understands one another.
    Perfecto!

    idolatrie said:
    I love the irrational dream too. I spend a lot of my time with delta irrationals, and I adore them to bits. But at the end of the day, I'm not looking for that wandering restless lifestyle. I need a home base, a retreat, a place (both physical and emotional) where I feel secure and know it is 'mine'. Who doesn't love travel and boating and picnics? But that's a holiday, not a life I could live.
    I identify with this a lot. Now, I could easily see hanging out with an IEE/SLI couple doing all that stuff and having a blast, but it's not something I could occupy all my days with. Thinking about it in that context, I'm not sure what an LSE/EII couple would have to offer except maybe a totally chill place to relax or something!

    UDP said:
    But the next line, "To have certain people who I know will always love me, and I will always love them" - I understand that more so. A lot of the rest is pretty much the reciprocal image of things I suppose - I see it as having people I can at last be truly loyal to, in a very deep and meaningful way. If I could have something solid in my life that I could build around, something that wouldn't be changing or fleeting, that would be a very nice thing. It would give me something to protect, and actually care about.

    I think I may be a bit numb to all of that though, or at least at this moment while I write (perhaps it is because I am working on papers). It is still news to me that people actually want stuff like this.


    PS: Perhaps S types, or ST types, can be really shallow minded because they take whatever they see around them as being "the case", and don't really understand that just because it is not before their eyes it does not really exist.
    Interesting perspective!
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    To the dream, I would like to add a light-hearted games of chess, wine and cheese night, one person reading and another working on a project (mostly silently, but with an occasional quiet remark), jogging/hiking/or taking walks, a mostly grounded and stable life, but one in which there is freedom to think or do things in a new way if, no stagnation, constant self growth but in a way that support eachother, like two plants thriving in sunlight but still intertwined. knowing exactly what to expect from someone, yet being surprised occasionally by their brillance or their outlook or opinion, things being pleasant in general. People you don't ever have to explain yourself to twice, who probably know what point you're trying to make before you open your mouth.

    A place that when you're away, makes you feel warm and you don't know why, but don't care why either. An effortless understanding of others in a deep way that doesn't require "work" but feels like you're accomplishing something great just by understanding eachoher's quirks.

    Also, playing sports badly but for fun. And flowers.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    To the dream, I would like to add a light-hearted games of chess, wine and cheese night, one person reading and another working on a project (mostly silently, but with an occasional quiet remark).
    God, that is one the images that always haunts my mind and I thought was only a personal proclivity.

    I have this idea of sitting there, reading, writing and studying with my significant other in a really cosy room, with rugs and yellow lighting and this sense of togetherness of the individual activities that doesn't require verbal communication. And then as the hour gets late and I'm yawning a lot, he'll hand me a cup of milky tea and a shawl to wrap myself in.

    [dies of the sentimentality output]
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    I can dig that sort of.

    I actually just came here to write that I really don't have a problem with me and an EII sort of just relaxing in the evning, watching a movie or something a home, sitting together on a couch, perhaps under a blanket, with my arm around her. I'd particularly enjoy it if she happened to fell comfortable enough to fall asleep laying on me somehow. I think I might actually feel relationally useful, in that case - as in, I would be providing something good towards the relationship, and that would make me feel good, because I'm not always sure I can do that.

    I like close physical proximity a lot in situations like that, and in that situation, I'd be able to read her. Particularly her body, and if there was anything she needed or wanted to be happy or feel good I'd very much enjoy getting/doing it for her.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    To the dream, I would like to add a light-hearted games of chess, wine and cheese night, one person reading and another working on a project (mostly silently, but with an occasional quiet remark), jogging/hiking/or taking walks, a mostly grounded and stable life, but one in which there is freedom to think or do things in a new way if, no stagnation, constant self growth but in a way that support eachother, like two plants thriving in sunlight but still intertwined. knowing exactly what to expect from someone, yet being surprised occasionally by their brillance or their outlook or opinion, things being pleasant in general. People you don't ever have to explain yourself to twice, who probably know what point you're trying to make before you open your mouth.

    A place that when you're away, makes you feel warm and you don't know why, but don't care why either. An effortless understanding of others in a deep way that doesn't require "work" but feels like you're accomplishing something great just by understanding eachoher's quirks.
    *melts*

    That. That is it. Right there.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    To the dream, I would like to add a light-hearted games of chess, wine and cheese night, one person reading and another working on a project (mostly silently, but with an occasional quiet remark), jogging/hiking/or taking walks, a mostly grounded and stable life, but one in which there is freedom to think or do things in a new way if, no stagnation, constant self growth but in a way that support eachother, like two plants thriving in sunlight but still intertwined. knowing exactly what to expect from someone, yet being surprised occasionally by their brillance or their outlook or opinion, things being pleasant in general. People you don't ever have to explain yourself to twice, who probably know what point you're trying to make before you open your mouth.

    A place that when you're away, makes you feel warm and you don't know why, but don't care why either. An effortless understanding of others in a deep way that doesn't require "work" but feels like you're accomplishing something great just by understanding eachoher's quirks.

    Also, playing sports badly but for fun. And flowers.

    Woah. This sounds awesome.

    Edit: I thought everyone wanted this. Now I see I am very wrong
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Guys,

    I came snooping around over here in Delta because "something" told me I still might be IEE. This thread has made me cry and smile and feel at peace. Mostly because I already live it. I have an awesome life already with my hubby JUST LIKE what you all are describing here. I don't even think about the way you guys have described it because I have had it for so long. I feel a great appreciation washing over me for what I already have. Thank you all so very much!

    Love,
    Kelly Jo

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    I think it would be pretty cool if any alphas/betas/gammas reading this would start a similar thread for their quadra

    ETA: lol thanks munenoriII
    Last edited by hellothere; 05-05-2008 at 10:30 AM.

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