What do you think is the "finished product" and final goal of each quadra?

[lefty]

As an ENFJ and a beta i think i do value liberation as the ultimate goal. i think this absolutely paints my view of life.

what do you think about the "finished product" of the quadras the fourth participant in the group and what that type signifies about the overall aims of the quadras?

[strrrng]

interesting...I would associate liberation more with alpha - but I'm not sure what context you're speaking in.

Alpha seems to want that intellectual freedom...it's in this laid-back fashion, like 'can't we all be?'

beta seems to just want to implement visions, or make the world better

not to sure about gamma and delta

[FDG]

You mean like, evacuating what you ate for lunch?

[lefty]

interesting...I would associate liberation more with alpha - but I'm not sure what context you're speaking in.

Alpha seems to want that intellectual freedom...it's in this laid-back fashion, like 'can't we all be?'

beta seems to just want to implement visions, or make the world better

not to sure about gamma and delta

Alpha-ESFJ
Beta-ESTP

Gamma-ESFP
Delta-ESTJ

[strrrng]

Alpha-ESFJ
Beta-ESTP

Gamma-ESFP
Delta-ESTJ

yes, I know what types are in each quadra...

[dbmmama]

Alpha-ESFJ
Beta-ESTP

Gamma-ESFP
Delta-ESTJ

those are definitely the dominant types but i don't think necessarily the "aim" for each quadra. i think your thinking is coming from your type in thinking that the dominant type would be the aim.

lv
kj

[strrrng]

that brings up an interesting idea...that there are implementors in each quadra. it's probably not so clear-cut, as each type implements things in their own way, but each type seems to have a role.

example: beta. the INFp seems to be the visionary in the background, possibly producing works to illustrate this, and helping formulate the vision. The ENFj is the one who handles the interpersonal aspect of implementation, conveying the vision to others. The ISTj seems to be the foundation, somewhat in the background, making sure things run smoothly and according to plan. And the ESTp, of course, is the bullet from the gun. they, in essence, would do the most implementation, in terms of real, practical development.

[Blaze]

this topic is too hypothetical. as if we run around in our quadras all the time.

we so don't.

i mean i see the theoretical utility of the topic, but in practical application, it falls way short.

[Steve]

that brings up an interesting idea...that there are implementors in each quadra. it's probably not so clear-cut, as each type implements things in their own way, but each type seems to have a role.

example: beta. the INFp seems to be the visionary in the background, possibly producing works to illustrate this, and helping formulate the vision. The ENFj is the one who handles the interpersonal aspect of implementation, conveying the vision to others. The ISTj seems to be the foundation, somewhat in the background, making sure things run smoothly and according to plan. And the ESTp, of course, is the bullet from the gun. they, in essence, would do the most implementation, in terms of real, practical development.

I like this

[redbaron]

this topic is too hypothetical. as if we run around in our quadras all the time.

we so don't.

i mean i see the theoretical utility of the topic, but in practical application, it falls way short.

agreed 100%

[lefty]

those are definitely the dominant types but i don't think necessarily the "aim" for each quadra. i think your thinking is coming from your type in thinking that the dominant type would be the aim.

lv
kj

it comes from socionics....


alpha - programmer quadra
beta - coordinator quadra
gamma - corrector quadra
delta - final product quadra

alpha- entp programmer, isfp coordinator, intj corrector, esfj final product
beta-enfj programmer, istj coordinator, infp corrector, estp final product
gamma-entj programmer, isfj coordinator, intp corrector, esfp final product
delta-enfp programmer, istp coordinator, infj corrector, estj final product

[lefty]

this topic is too hypothetical. as if we run around in our quadras all the time.

we so don't.

i mean i see the theoretical utility of the topic, but in practical application, it falls way short.

then post in topics you are interested in.

[Ezra]

As an ENFJ and a beta i think i do value liberation as the ultimate goal. i think this absolutely paints my view of life.

what do you think about the "finished product" of the quadras the fourth participant in the group and what that type signifies about the overall aims of the quadras?

What's Beta's overall aim?

[lefty]

What's Beta's overall aim?

to "conquer" to "promote" health and knowledge...To persuade people...with elements of protection and ultimately healing.

I think it says something that our final participant is utilitarian...it means we ultimately believe in the individuals unique perceptions. that we value diversity and art. that we believe in acting in the moment.


in dont have a clear cut denfinition for you and i think it'd be interesting to hear anyones feedbakc about it and i think its also confused a bit because i think the ESTP, in the end, is still a combination of other quadra memebers on some level (id say the ESTP relates as a teacher, acts as an inspector, and in the end privately and at their core is a healer).


to teach, to promote knowledge, to mentor, to educe potential, to inspect for consistancy, to be dependanble and trusthworthy, to heal, to reconciliate, to mend, to conquer to act in the now with force in an ethical manner for justice.

I love you Betas!!! I love you!

[Ezra]

to "conquer" to "promote" health and knowledge...To persuade people...with elements of protection and ultimately healing.

I think it says something that our final participant is utilitarian...it means we ultimately believe in the individuals unique perceptions. that we value diversity and art. that we believe in acting in the moment.


in dont have a clear cut denfinition for you and i think it'd be interesting to hear anyones feedbakc about it and i think its also confused a bit because i think the ESTP, in the end, is still a combination of other quadra memebers on some level (id say the ESTP relates as a teacher, acts as an inspector, and in the end privately and at their core is a healer).


to teach, to promote knowledge, to mentor, to educe potential, to inspect for consistancy, to be dependanble and trusthworthy, to heal, to reconciliate, to mend, to conquer to act in the now with force in an ethical manner for justice.

I love you Betas!!! I love you!

Am I beta if my aim in life is to make money for my own personal enjoyment?

[Ezra]

Isn't this everyones reason for making money? (well, that and survival)

No. Some people like to make money because they like making money; that is, they enjoy the art of money-making; it is fun in itself. Others make money because they're forced to in order to pay off a debt they've got themselves in, or are blackmailed into paying for whatever reason.

[lefty]

This is interesting, but I would be inclined to go for Gulenko's interpretation (which you can read in the articles section called "quadra relay race", it's very interesting), which would place the types in this order:

alpha - isfp -> entp -> intj -> esfj
beta - istj -> enfj -> infp -> estp
gamma - intp -> esfp -> isfj -> entj
delta - infj -> estj -> istp -> enfp

im sorry but you clearly have the coordinator of the first two quadras in the wrong place and the correctors and final product, in the incorrect place in the second set.

its totally logical. the composer doesn't programm alpha. the inventor is clearly greater in sheer genius and the composition of something is secondary to the concept.

additionally in beta the teacher is also known as the conscientious type and i would certainly argue that they program the quadra with ethics ... where as making sure things are even or investigating them, certifiying them, accounting...is clearly a coordinator and secondary position.

the feildmarshal is the clear choice for the gamma quadrant being the one with the initial energy and overal aims for the quadra and the intp serves as the corrector who is more concerned with design and strcuture than with the overall movement of the people ...

the infj is so deeply introverted they could never program a quadra whereas the enthusiastic and vigliant ENFP sets the pace and the ISTP coordinates for her. If the supervisor ESTJ was in the coordinator position as you have listed them then nothing would ever get done.

i stand by my understanding of the positioning of the types within the quadras and for those who dont think it matters...i do!

[lefty]

well lefty, I think your post was interesting too, but it's just that yours is using a different rationale to come to that order. you can't use your rationale to say that gulenko's is wrong, because the reasonings for coming to those two different conclusions are not the same.

gulenko's reasoning for coming to that order is because he was probably using the information relay:

Si - Ne - Ti - Fe - Ni - Se - Fi - Te

you use titles like "programmer" and such, I'm guessing depending on which type you see as the one that "programs" the quadra, etc.. gulenko is not using this reasoning, he is seeing where the type stands in the information relay (using their base function), and comes to the order that way.

its logical that the entp is the head of the alpha quadra and so on. in terms of information i think the isfp is still secondary. all the work of the composer, i think, is related to the outside world, whereas the world of the inventor is totally conceptual. the concept is the beginning. i think the entp is kind of the supreme alpha. they're the beginning. and you can try to rank them in terms of information, but i just think it makes sense that you concieve of them as being responsible for the electricity that's running your computer and therefore not only the programmer of alpha the programmer of all programmers. i think it makes perfect sense and you can leave your house or spend one moment in most of your life without the touch of an inventor ... and designers (generally more soe of the gamma quadrant) follow behind to fill our lives with other things and sometimes, these days, the two are mingling.

and basically i think also the positions in the quadra *are* dynamic and i think the role of each either switches publically and privately or else tends to be rooted in one role but consciously the other {as i've posted in the thread about identifying your conflict type ... that you can look at model a and b and the full spectrum of identity in one individual ... and being composed of the primary identity and the sub and / or unconscious and/or the public and private self. } anyway...the thing is none of it is set in stone but i think some of it makes intuitive sense granted i can be persuaded otherwise, but probably by an alpha lol "slaves in heaven and kings in hell." ~ quote from an ENTP profile on the internet. The Rational...likened to Prometheus by David Keirsey.