Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 141

Thread: Is my type INFp or INTp?

  1. #1
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Is my type INFp or INTp?

    Some people are of the opinion that I'm IEI, I thought I'd put that to rest.

    I eat bunnies, litter, kill off endangered species, take the last chocolate milk in supermarkets and at parties, and force logical arguments down the throats of people concerned with how others feel.

    If I think people are starting to like me, I give them a good bit to hate about me, just to even things out.

    Most importantly, I'm not at all for animal rights, because I think we are animals and we are doing a good job of dominating the other up and coming species. It's all sick really, but I really wanted to emphasize that I try and run over the little furry things that cross the road when they really shouldn't. I'm not evil, I just accept that I'm a human animal. I think that a lot of other animals are going to suffer as humans grow and develop. I hope that the unwanted insect population dies down in the future, when we create robot insects to do the important jobs that the little critters were doing. Pretty soon, it will be just us, humans, the victors. Don't tell the IEIs
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  2. #2
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I actually think you might be Alpha, believe it or not. IEI is also possible. ILI might be possible, but I'd have to sort of stretch more to see that than the other types I've listed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    Some people are of the opinion that I'm IEI, I thought I'd put that to rest.

    I eat bunnies, litter, kill off endangered species, take the last chocolate milk in supermarkets and at parties, and force logical arguments down the throats of people concerned with how others feel.

    If I think people are starting to like me, I give them a good bit to hate about me, just to even things out.

    Most importantly, I'm not at all for animal rights, because I think we are animals and we are doing a good job of dominating the other up and coming species. It's all sick really, but I really wanted to emphasize that I try and run over the little furry things that cross the road when they really shouldn't. I'm not evil, I just accept that I'm a human animal. I think that a lot of other animals are going to suffer as humans grow and develop. I hope that the unwanted insect population dies down in the future, when we create robot insects to do the important jobs that the little critters were doing. Pretty soon, it will be just us, humans, the victors. Don't tell the IEIs
    eh, is this a joke post?
    because i don't think that says much to prove ILI>IEI
    INTp
    sx/sp

  4. #4
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    I actually think you might be Alpha, believe it or not. IEI is also possible. ILI might be possible, but I'd have to sort of stretch more to see that than the other types I've listed.
    You said Alpha, but you didn't give the type. Anyway, I am what I am, I can change my type but not anything physical, if you catch my drift.

    My twin brother is LII and we try and brainstorm a good bit. He and I do not see eye to eye on the course of action to take in solving a problem. I know I'm ILI, I've been into this for 3 years, I've done a good bit of reading, and I know myself a little too well to be mistaken. Aside from that, I've known an IEI, she is very sensitive to other people, hears it when I speak*i speak very low* and she hears and comments on what I say, I was amazed when she first did it. However, I've tried to talk to her, she being the first INFJ*mbti* that I had met, and I was amazed and wanted to see what introverted intuition was like for her, I thought we would get along great. However, I soon noticed that our thoughts were not going to connect. I mean no offense when I say this, but she was kind of stupid. She valued peoples feelings and not concepts. So if the topic I wanted to discuss disturbed her even a little, she smiled and tried to correct for my insensitivity.

    I'm a child really, in my mind I speak like one. Only I'm not under anyone, a child with a great deal of authority. Authority from potential and mental strength. I'm kind at heart, for I see peoples weaknesses, like struggling animals, missing a great deal of understanding concerning the world they live in. I feel sorry for people, they seem to be blind to what I see. So in that way, I'm kind so as not to disturb their very sensitive framework, sensitive in that they are *unable to deal with the types of reality and chaos that I see and struggle with. So if you are wondering why I'm kind, that is why. If you are wondering why I'm beseeching, it's because of other peoples weaknesses, and I care not to make it known to them. For if they where to view the outer edge of their thoughts, they would become volatile, protective, and unmanageable.

    There is also left to consider that I've met my dual, and I've never fallen in love with another person since. A brute, blunt, solid, kind, aware of her surroundings... I could go on, but it was an ESFp or SEE.

    I wish to talk to you guys about the ideas that I concern myself with. I'm sure you'll then agree with me that I'm ILI after having witnessed my very powerful thoughts.

    I am not great, I'm a moron, however, my thoughts are among the most powerful out there. Ideas rooting out the cores, the basis of applied knowledge and understanding.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  5. #5
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So far I don't see anything that would suggest ILI over a Fe/Ti type, but it's too soon to tell. We'll have to wait and see how your interactions with other members play out.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  6. #6
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's a test: blow me. If you like, you are SLE.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  7. #7
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    He's not alpha, he's not IEI... he's just ILI-Ni. There aren't too many on here, and the ones who are here don't have very pronounced personalities. ILI-Ni is alot different then ILI-Te. ILI-Te tells jokes mostly. Instead of developing their own ideas, they seem to focus primarily on critiquing existing ideas ... many times critiquing translates into playing meaningless word games.. they also come off as less socially abrasive, more "with the grain"; maybe even leader of what is considered the grain. ILI-Ni has a closer relationship with emotions, art, philosophy... is more vague with their explanatory style. Focuses on generating thier own ideas as opposed to "accepting or interpreting" existing ideas. Is almost always misunderstood due to their inability to express what is, internally, a very vague abstract image. Comes off as reaching a number of hastey conclusions, ends up backtracking.. trying to explain "these conclusions were merely hypotheses"
    ...etc. No one can follow ILI-Ni logic. It is better (Java); that is.. it will cause you less anxiety / stress, to learn not to speak of such things (subjective hypotheses).. but rather to keep them inside your head and reap their rewards as they come to fruition in reality, in unfolding events in real time.
    Anyway, this is the same forum full of idiots who argued with me I was ENFj.. where I supposedly didn't know myself well enough to know otherwise- that I was 3 of 4 letters away. ..
    If you need to give your thoughts structure, write them in a journal. ... do not ask idiots for imput. Well, I guess in some ways talking to the idiots can be an advantage, because you become good with words... good with defending / understanding your position from every vantage point: basically good at dealing with idiots.. but other then that, no. it is a waste of time
    I was not in that group, but you do not sound like you are being reasonable. Also I would question that ILI-Tes tell jokes mostly, or that they are less socially abrasive than ILI-Nis. In fact I would think the opposite (stronger Te>Fe distinction). But whatever.

    @ Lord Java: I don't really know you well enough to say either way, just offering my first impression. However you did jump out at me very much as un-ILI. Your posts are very colorful somehow, in a way that I sometimes associate with Ne, although there might be Fe too (and actually now I'm sort of leaning that way; that last post comes across as more Beta Fe to me). It's not really that important though.

    Also, if your ideas are mind-bogglingly brilliant, would you care to share one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  8. #8
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's a test: blow me. If you like, you are IEI.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  9. #9
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    So far I don't see anything that would suggest ILI over a Fe/Ti type, but it's too soon to tell. We'll have to wait and see how your interactions with other members play out.
    YES TOO SOON TO TELL MY FRIENDS, TOO SOON TO TELL
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  10. #10
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Here's a test: blow me. If you like, you are IEI.
    ;]
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  11. #11
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I pm'd this guy and told him he seemed MUCH more IEI than ILI. I think I am 100% sure he is not an ILI. It's just that I recognize WAAAY too much Beta from him in his posts, as mentioned by another poster. "Colorful" is a good way to term it b/c it is a difficult thing to really pull apart and explain. It's just something you "know" from reading the posts, and I think a lot of other people have noticed this already.

    You act like so many IEIs I know. Your thoughts, your way of presenting yourself. It actually reminds me somewhat of Garmonbozia, does anyone agree? Like a male version of her. She has been on the fence between ILI and IEI herself for a while, knowing she is definitely dominant. However, I think it is clear to me and everyone else here now that she is obviously not an ILI, and an subtype of IEI. That is what I think you are, Lord Java. I can smell your though from even across the internet! ILIs just would not present themselves the way you have, no matter if they are (reyn) or (niffweed) subtypes. Compare this guy to the definite ILIs and you will notice extreme differences.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,687
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with ScarlettLux

  13. #13
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Gee you guys are nice. No matter, the power is in the mind, not the title.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  14. #14
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    @Lord Java

    What Reinin traits best represent you and why? Though be forwarned, they are experimental.

    process or result?
    constructivist or emotivist?

    You might also want to try reading Gulenko's forms of thinking.

    It'll be a subjective analysis, I know, but are you a vortex thinker or a dialectic-algorithmic thinker?
    I have no idea as to what you are talking about. I'm really not emotional, I know what Fe is and I do not express it. I'm just being creative with the simple thoughts some of you take for granted. I enjoy destroying imperfect structure.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  15. #15
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    He's not alpha, he's not IEI... he's just ILI-Ni. There aren't too many on here, and the ones who are here don't have very pronounced personalities. ILI-Ni is alot different then ILI-Te. ILI-Te tells jokes mostly. Instead of developing their own ideas, they seem to focus primarily on critiquing existing ideas ... many times critiquing translates into playing meaningless word games.. they also come off as less socially abrasive, more "with the grain"; maybe even leader of what is considered the grain. ILI-Ni has a closer relationship with emotions, art, philosophy... is more vague with their explanatory style. Focuses on generating thier own ideas as opposed to "accepting or interpreting" existing ideas. Is almost always misunderstood due to their inability to express what is, internally, a very vague abstract image. Comes off as reaching a number of hastey conclusions, ends up backtracking.. trying to explain "these conclusions were merely hypotheses"
    ...etc. No one can follow ILI-Ni logic. It is better (Java); that is.. it will cause you less anxiety / stress, to learn not to speak of such things (subjective hypotheses).. but rather to keep them inside your head and reap their rewards as they come to fruition in reality, in unfolding events in real time.
    Anyway, this is the same forum full of idiots who argued with me I was ENFj.. where I supposedly didn't know myself well enough to know otherwise- that I was 3 of 4 letters away. ..
    If you need to give your thoughts structure, write them in a journal. ... do not ask idiots for imput. Well, I guess in some ways talking to the idiots can be an advantage, because you become good with words... good with defending / understanding your position from every vantage point: basically good at dealing with idiots.. but other then that, no. it is a waste of time
    Hi. Thanks for the comment, I strongly feel your sentiments. Sadly, this community possesses this strange ability to change my Te into Fe. I don't know how they do it, but I think they know what they are doing, so I'm going to pass the authority on to them.

    I wouldn't call them idiots, just incorrect. Passing judgment is more like tribal initialization. Part of becoming one of the group.

    I know you sir. Your e-mail says it all.

    Anyway, I've been working on that AGI idea I had a while back. I've added a few things to it that help it work. I thought that instead of setting my sights on the human mind, I'd work with something much less complex. An insect. The funny thing is that there are certain operators that stay the same in an insect. I'm beginning to wonder if it's a requirement to live on earth, to have the same basic operational rules for interaction with reality.

    I thought I'd show it to this group of people, for I have not the drive to do it all on my own. I know that I have the ability, I just cannot remain focused. That and AGI is needed in our world, in our time. I'm just going to spew out what I know and let other people take it from there.

    Really, they thought you were an ENFj? That's hilarious. I suppose that anyone who gets too creative must be using some sort of feeling function. After all, if it's not pure logic, if it's not pure emotion, it must be emotion.

    I realize that my ideas are far reaching, however, it never gets through to my head that most people will not understand me. In groups, I will say something and someone else will feel the need to translate for me, as if it weren't obvious.

    Anyway, nice to hear from you, I guess we are making the same rounds. It wasn't the first time that I ran into you again, you seem to stick out like a sore thumb, sir.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  16. #16
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    I think probably are ILI, i'd say overall i'm reasonably sure of that.

    Only think is though is that i've noticed you giving conflicting information more than once now..one i just noticed here is you said you've been into this stuff for three years, but then in an earlier post you said you didn't know much about it and were just starting out. You know the other stuff as well. It just makes me think about what information can be taken at face value. However, on that sort of thing. i could speculate, maybe I don't understand your motivation(s) yet, i'm just making some observations, you'll find your feet and all that.

    Also..Khamelion is amazing. But then why do I state the obvious?
    Last edited by Cyclops; 05-03-2008 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #17
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I think maybe ILI, only think is though is that i've noticed you giving conflicting information more than once now..one i just noticed here is you said you've been into this stuff for three years, but then in an earlier post you said you didn't know much about it and were just starting out. You know the other stuff as well. It just makes me think about what information can be taken at face value. However, maybe I don't understand your motivation(s) yet, i'm just making some observations, you'll find your feet and all that.

    Also..Khamelion is amazing. But then why do I state the obvious?
    Socionics is new to me, MBTI is not. They use the same functions, and the functions I have been into for quite a while.

    I'm starting to wonder about you Cyclops, I've seen some of your posts at Socionics.com and have to say, you're quite the intelligent person. You like to pretend to fall back on logic, but really, you have a weak mind, unable understand what people say, your arguments prove that much.

    You're logical when ever someone says something you don't understand. You cut yourself off and either don't try to understand, or are unable to understand. I'm thinking it's the latter.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  18. #18
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    Socionics is new to me, MBTI is not. They use the same functions, and the functions I have been into for quite a while.

    I'm starting to wonder about you Cyclops, I've seen some of your posts at Socionics.com and have to say, you're quite the intelligent person. You like to pretend to fall back on logic, but really, you have a weak mind, unable understand what people say, your arguments prove that much.

    You're logical when ever someone says something you don't understand. You cut yourself off and either don't try to understand, or are unable to understand. I'm thinking it's the latter.
    Sure. Maybe your right, because I've no idea wtf your talking about.

    I've posted under a few names at socionics.com-certainly at the q&a section, infact i am often 'anonymous' I've noticed about you is that you underestimate other people intelligence, much to the point were people can see through your attempts at trying to be condescending towards people. I'll be honest and say I don't like your attitude, and I sense in you that you will attempt to be slippery with your words.

  19. #19
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Sure. Maybe your right, because I've no idea wtf your talking about.

    I've posted under a few names at socionics.com-certainly at the q&a section, infact i am often 'anonymous' I've noticed about you is that you underestimate other people intelligence, much to the point were people can see through your attempts at trying to be condescending towards people. I'll be honest and say I don't like your attitude, and I sense in you that you will attempt to be slippery with your words.
    Slippery? I said what I meant, how was that slippery?

    My attitude? Ever since I started posting on this forum, you've been hounding me. You made a public statement saying that I'm a lier, what's to be upset about? And I know you don't understand, you are too busy defending something inside of you to reach out and try to understand. I'm not your enemy, stop posting negative comments at me.

    I'm getting the impression that for you, 'logic' is a means for defending a nest. And that all people need to be made aware of your nest and how not do disturb it.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  20. #20
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    Socionics is new to me, MBTI is not. They use the same functions, and the functions I have been into for quite a while.
    But the functions are defined differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  21. #21
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    But the functions are defined differently.
    Picky, aren't you. None the less, I'm familiar with the system, despite any superficial changes. You might argue, but I've seen no leaps. The things that are different is the inter type relations, the descriptions, well you know*more to the point, I don't*. Anyway, it's pretty much the same, I'm not a moron, so why did you say what you did?
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  22. #22
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    My attitude? Ever since I started posting on this forum, you've been hounding me. You made a public statement saying that I'm a lier, what's to be upset about? And I know you don't understand, you are too busy defending something inside of you to reach out and try to understand. I'm not your enemy, stop posting negative comments at me.
    I said you gave conflicting information. I said it was observation.. observation anyone can make who's read your posts. I said it on your thread here so you had every opportunity to correct it here. Perhaps you could stop putting words in my mouth here.

    Fact that I reading your posts is something should taken as compliment. I really can't be bothered to lock horns with you.

    You new poster and so maybe you are nervous or something..but like I said earlier..i'm sure you find your feet.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 05-03-2008 at 09:36 AM.

  23. #23
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    difference between ILI and IEI is simple.

    Ask them if they are proud of their logical approach, or their humanistic approach.

    ILI will say: Yeah I'm logical and I'm proud of it.

    IEI will answer: Of course I'm not logical, it's harsh and wrong to not include people. I hate being logical.

  24. #24
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    difference between ILI and IEI is simple.

    Ask them if they are proud of their logical approach, or their humanistic approach.

    ILI will say: Yeah I'm logical and I'm proud of it.

    IEI will answer: Of course I'm not logical, it's harsh and wrong to not include people. I hate being logical.
    Looks like I'll have to be happy being a hippo. Because Type has lost me in that inverted time portal inbetween ILI and IEI.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  25. #25
    Lord Java the 3rd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    In a world that does not know me and I do not know it.
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I said you gave conflicting information. I said it was observation.. observation anyone can make who's read your posts. I said it on your thread here so you had every opportunity to correct it here. Perhaps you could stop putting words in my mouth here.

    Fact that I reading your posts is something should taken as compliment. I really can't be bothered to lock horns with you.

    You new poster and so maybe you are nervous or something..but like I said earlier..I'm sure you find your feet.
    Oh, well, uh... maybe. I wouldn't say i was nervous, but perhaps something... I don't know, but it does seem to have some weight to it.
    Concepts, Fantasy, Strategy, and Power.

    INTp

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There is a general tendency on this forum to confuse creative with either accepting or creative . We who have creative ourselves of course know that we have it, and it is obvious that those who claim otherwise are brainwashed somehow. It's an interesting phenomenon that I have no really good explanation for, but that's the way it is.

    It clearly has something to do with the fact that most people here are much too focused on the quadras, which leads to severe mistypings in many cases. The only way to solve that problem is to try to educate people, I think, but sadly enought they are often almost totally uninterested in learning the types correctly. They generally prefer to stick to their prejudices and misconceptions.

  27. #27
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    In general, I tend not to go against self typing. There is something here however that i've been noticing. If Java is ILI or IEI, then he is either going to be Fi seeking or Fe demonstrative, what I have been wondering, and partly been looking to observe, is which he is showing more..Fi seeking or Fe valueing. I'm getting an impression of Fi seeking, but then keeping an open perspective there's been some beta Fe demonstrative also. It could even be some sort of Fe alpha seeking, because there seems to be some sort of mix.

    I'm not seeing this as any conclusive method of approach, at this early stage. However I think the seeking/demonstrative approach can have its uses IRL definitely, and I guess I can see it being useful to a certain extent online also, it's something i'm interested in, so i'll give it some observation for further posts.

    I guess i'm wanting to put down some of my general thoughts just now..they're kind of not fully formed, I would have prefered to have held off, but dunno..somehow I think putting down some general thoughts/impressions just now *might* have it's uses..for anyone else who's reading (read this far) and Java.

    Anyway, i'm possibly rambling now, besides.. in the meantime i'll be shortly getting dragged out to a social event, so I need to go get ready n put on my nice new denims and that kind of ok t-shirt I bought last week. Analysing Java type would be much more interesting.

  28. #28
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with everything ScarlettLux said. And there's something else that just really jumped off the screen at me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    Picky, aren't you.
    This statement screams Te PoLR > Te ego.

    None the less, I'm familiar with the system, despite any superficial changes. You might argue, but I've seen no leaps. The things that are different is the inter type relations, the descriptions, well you know*more to the point, I don't*. Anyway, it's pretty much the same, I'm not a moron, so why did you say what you did?
    Aside from the functions (information elements) being defined differently (to the extent of making MBTT definitions useless), the functions (information elements) that make up half of the types are different.

    What are an INTP's first two function in MBTT? What are an ILI's first two functions in Socionics?

    Also, Socionics is a theory about information processing. MBTT, at least pop MBTT, is more of a personality theory focusing on actual behavior.

    Altogether, my time here has led me to believe that those who come here with a lot of knowledge about MBTT are at a severe disadvantage over those who aren't. It only serves to create confusion. Your best bet is to think of the theories as two completely different systems and to forget about MBTT entirely while you're learning about Socionics. Start fresh.

    Wikisocion is probably one of the best places to start. Or you could just interact with others here for a little while and your quadra values will become apparent, and from there you can decide what your temperament is and figure out which of the information elements your quadra values are strongest in you.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    If Java is ILI or IEI, then he is either going to be Fi seeking or Fe demonstrative, what I have been wondering, and partly been looking to observe, is which he is showing more..Fi seeking or Fe valueing.
    That is almost impossible to reliably observe with any accuracy over the Internet. A proof of that impossibiltiy is all the mistypings in that respect which Expat and others are guilty of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I'm getting an impression of Fi seeking, but then keeping an open perspective there's been some beta Fe demonstrative also. It could even be some sort of Fe alpha seeking, because there seems to be some sort of mix.
    You should not even try to determine those aspects, because whatever conclusion you may draw from your observations is necessarily less reliable than Java's own self-typing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I'm not seeing this as any conclusive method of approach, at this early stage.
    It's simply a very bad method of approach at every stage.

  30. #30

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What are an INTP's first two function in MBTT? What are an ILI's first two functions in Socionics?
    An INTP's first two functions are and , and an ILI's first two functions are also and . However, in MBTT they talk about and (without know it of course) in terms of "Ti" and "Ne".

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Altogether, my time here has led me to believe that those who come here with a lot of knowledge about MBTT are at a severe disadvantage over those who aren't.
    No, it's actually the other way around. Those who have a lot of knowledge about MBTT make far less typing mistakes than those who know only about Socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    It only serves to create confusion.
    That's simply a totally false statement Those who create confusion are those who say that the MBTT types have no relation to the socionic types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Your best bet is to think of the theories as two completely different systems and to forget about MBTT entirely while you're learning about Socionics. Start fresh.
    That's the absolutely worst approach you can possibly have. Maybe that's why you have been so unable to determine anything for sure regarding your own type for such a long time. People who are saying things like those you are saying here are the ones with the most incorrect understanding of the types. Always.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Wikisocion is probably one of the best places to start.
    There is so much total bullshit published there, that a big dose of caution is definitely called for. Not all of it is false, of course, but only those who already know pretty much about Socionics already are able to tell the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Or you could just interact with others here for a little while and your quadra values will become apparent, and from there you can decide what your temperament is and figure out which of the information elements your quadra values are strongest in you.
    DO NOT FOCUS ON THE QUADRAS.

  31. #31
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Phaedrus, I've known my Socionics type (and not doubted it) for two years. What were you trying to accomplish by bringing it up? Were you hoping I'd be more likely to engage you in a debate if you said something that irritated or provoked me?

    I'm not irritated, and I'm not going to debate you. I posted what I did knowing you'd pick apart and refute everything I said and simply not caring. You are free to believe whatever you'd like.

    I just wanted to let you know that, because it's quite clear that no good could possibly come from it, I'm going to decline from responding to your points.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  32. #32
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    That is almost impossible to reliably observe with any accuracy over the Internet. A proof of that impossibiltiy is all the mistypings in that respect which Expat and others are guilty of.
    I agree in principle with what your saying..that it is *difficult* to observe with accuracy over the internet, but I wouldn't say impossible..or any near a definition of impossible. I think in that respect of how good it is would be dependant on how deep the interaction (conversation) were to go with an individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    You should not even try to determine those aspects, because whatever conclusion you may draw from your observations is necessarily less reliable than Java's own self-typing.
    Sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    It's simply a very bad method of approach at every stage.
    i don't know so much. For instance, supposing you were close to someone, and you wanted their advice..and they were an ethical type..what advice would you be more receptive to..an Fi creative or an Fe creative? If you were unsure of their type then you would probably be more sure after that conversation.

    What I'm saying is that it isn't a bad method at every stage. Of course you may say a person would have determined if the other were Fi or Fe creative before such a thing, but if you did say that, that isn't always the case, the way I see it is that every method has it's uses, I think imo the distinction you should be making, is perhaps one has to know when to use them.

    Of course I did say that I wasn't making any conclusions of Javatype this way, I simply was passing some observations at this stage which may or may not be useful here..but it could be useful 'there' (even to someone reading for their personal reasons) But you are saying it is never useful (or at least always very bad etc etc), which is incorrect, because aside from the reason(s) i've given here (which shows it can be of use and will sometimes be good) .. how can you possibly be aware of *every* situation in such a context?

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Phaedrus, I've known my Socionics type (and not doubted it) for two years. What were you trying to accomplish by bringing it up?
    Stating a simple fact and suggesting a possible explanation for the phenomenon that you are posting such a bunch of garbage when it comes to the question which typing methods people should use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Were you hoping I'd be more likely to engage you in a debate if you said something that irritated or provoked me?
    Of course not. Why would I say those things if I would I were interesting in engaging you in a debate. I don't want to discuss these things, I want you to stop posting garbage in the form of a bunch of totally false statements. There are more interesting things we could discuss if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I'm not irritated, and I'm not going to debate you. I posted what I did knowing you'd pick apart and refute everything I said and simply not caring. You are free to believe whatever you'd like.
    But I don't think that you are free to believe whatever you like. Not in the metaphysical sense, and not in the moral sense. You ought to correct your false views on the matter.

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    For instance, supposing you were close to someone, and you wanted their advice..and they were an ethical type..what advice would you be more receptive to..an Fi creative or an Fe creative?
    Neither -- unless they could back up their advice with T arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    If you were unsure of their type then you would probably be more sure after that conversation.
    No, certainly not. If I can't type them independently of such aspects, then I would certainly not try to type them using such an unreliable method. I would simply suspend any opinion of mine on their possible types until I had enough reliable data on which to make a correct typing.

    There are always much better typing methods available than trying to determine such nuances as whether someone is Fi or Fe creative. So why not use those other, more reliable methods instead?

  35. #35
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Java the 3rd View Post
    Picky, aren't you. None the less, I'm familiar with the system, despite any superficial changes. You might argue, but I've seen no leaps. The things that are different is the inter type relations, the descriptions, well you know*more to the point, I don't*. Anyway, it's pretty much the same, I'm not a moron, so why did you say what you did?
    Because they're SIGNIFICANT changes. It might not look like it at first, but... look, I used to know MBTI functions too and pretty much had to relearn everything. It's possible this is just out of my own incompetence, but I doubt it. Maybe the MBTI folks have changed their understanding over time to be more like Socionic functions, but I also doubt that - when I was there the general attitude was resistance to any Socionics influence. Although, it was from Rocky, Mr. "You all are stupid and wrong, Socionics is way better" so perhaps the delivery played a certain role in people's rejection of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    An INTP's first two functions are and , and an ILI's first two functions are also and . However, in MBTT they talk about and (without know it of course) in terms of "Ti" and "Ne".
    I think this is what you're saying, but just to clarify: INTP MBTI functional order is Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, I believe. (See: http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html, a particularly good description.) I think you're saying those are the labels but the functions described are Ni and Te in Socionics terms. Again, see the above link to see if you agree, if you're unfamiliar with the type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  36. #36
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    difference between ILI and IEI is simple.

    Ask them if they are proud of their logical approach, or their humanistic approach.

    ILI will say: Yeah I'm logical and I'm proud of it.

    IEI will answer: Of course I'm not logical, it's harsh and wrong to not include people. I hate being logical.
    IEIs see themselves as illogical, and proud of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    I think this is what you're saying, but just to clarify: INTP MBTI functional order is Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, I believe. (See: http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html, a particularly good description.) I think you're saying those are the labels but the functions described are Ni and Te in Socionics terms. Again, see the above link to see if you agree, if you're unfamiliar with the type.
    I have commented on that type description of Paul James on several occasions on this forum. What he describes is a very clear example of an ILI. There is very much IP in that description, and in the Ti section he accentuates many of the most typical ILI themes. He also describes a person with a clear Objectivist outlook. Since it is so obvious that James is describing an ILI, what's the point of even discussing why he uses labels such as "Ti" and "Ne" to talk about the mental processes of an ILI?

  38. #38

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    IEIs see themselves as illogical, and proud of it?
    To a certain extent, yes. At least in comparison to ILIs. IEIs don't prioritize logic in the same way.

  39. #39
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Since it is so obvious that James is describing an ILI, what's the point of even discussing why he uses labels such as "Ti" and "Ne" to talk about the mental processes of an ILI?
    Because that will clarify how Socionics and Myers-Briggs differ on functional definitions. Also, it might not be obvious to everyone; I'm unconvinced myself. I think the description describes me well, yet I'd be hard-pressed to label myself an ILI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  40. #40
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    To a certain extent, yes. At least in comparison to ILIs. IEIs don't prioritize logic in the same way.
    That question was intended for the IEIs on the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •