Developing weaker functions

[Rubicon]

Are people who are not in regular contact with their duals more well-rounded people? Is working at developing your weaker functions a worthy undertaking or a fruitless endeavour? What is the general consensus regarding this? Does this make these people therefore less attractive to their duals? How does dual-seeking manifest itself in someone apart from the obvious attraction-side-of-things? Does having a long-term relationship with your dual make you a more dependent and vulnerable person in their absence? Or does a dual's leading and creative functions 'rub off on you' so to speak? Should we try and develop our personalities?

[meatburger]

I will answer this with how im feeling which is constantly changing

Are people who are not in regular contact with their duals more well-rounded people?

Interesting question. I am largely without my duals (save for a few friends i see occasionally and i am far from rounded). I would hazard a guess that people who are with their duals would be more rounded. Your dual frees you up to be yourself, relax etc. I think seeing your dual use those functions would rub off on you at least for a few days after interracting with them. Ive hung around a number of dualised individuals and they appear typically quite together.

Is working at developing your weaker functions a worthy undertaking or a fruitless endeavour?

I think you can work on the function related activities themselves. For example ive noticed if i focus on my mental arithmetic etc it does improve for a few days. I think though that in the general sense i haven't really made a dent in my Ti. Perhaps i have margianlly by keeping my brain active.

Does this make these people therefore less attractive to their duals?

I suppose your the most attractive to your duals when you are being yourself. So i would guess if you have been hanging around people who value your ego functions you will be your most attractive.

Does having a long-term relationship with your dual make you a more dependent and vulnerable person in their absence?

Good question i dunno. I would say not really if it was for a set amount of time. Although i would say that actually loosing a dual could be a damn painful experience. That might certianlly unravel someone pretty hard. Ive noticed that people who are with their dual become very polarised in the way they think and act. People who are not with them seem more changable.

[tiny_dancer]

Well, I'm not sure if I improved Si or Te itself after dating a dual, but I learned a lot from his example on how to better organize my life. So in a way, yes, life is overall more balanced even without him, but I think I absorbed coping behaviors that carry over...which isn't really the same...

[Blaze]

for myself, i was with my nondual for 15 years. but as i've said in another thread, he fulfilled my dual seeking pretty well for somebody who has Si in the 7th place. but his leading was my role, so between his tendency to meet my dual seeking and exemplify Se, i became more disciplined with Se related stuff. like, i'm pretty organized, busy, and don't have to work too hard to get myself to do mundane stuff. on the other hand, that leading Se tendency to read other people's needs, will, and power, which is all a perception process, i don't have this naturally. so it's like i can do Se kind of stuff but i can't really perceive Se kind of data as well as i can perceive Ne and Ti kind of data. but i can perceive Se stuff better than Fi stuff.

i've seen people say here that they are consciously aware of their dual seeking function, but i would have to say for myself, it's only in hindsight that i can identify these kind of needs. they operate very unconsciously.

i would say that being around non duals gets you to identify your weaknesses well and to suppress their negative effects. this is a difficult process though, not really all that comfortable. it's good to know your weaknesses and to minimize them, but i think it's more comfortable to be around your dual who helps you indirectly so you don't have to look at your weaknesses in the face all the time.

i have seen people become excessively dependent on their duals. not all, but some. so i think it's a risk, but not a definite outcome.

are the non-dualized less attractive to their duals? i am not sure. i feel like i have always scared my duals off somehow. i'm too edgy for a lot of them. i have always felt that beta types are more able to handle my edginess.

on developing the polr: very difficult. although, let us suppose that the nondualized person was with their illusionary partner or their beneficiary or their activity partner. then the person would get help with their polr from the person's ego block (via the hidden agenda). but their role function would not receive any help except in the case of being with their activity partner. i've been in all three of these types of relationships and interestingly enough, the activity relation was the shortest by far. there were a lot of external reasons for that also but 2 extraverts was the problem there socionically.

i really don't know though. there are so so so many factors with relationships in addition to socionics.

[JRiddy]

I'm speaking out of experience here, because I haven't experienced much in the way of dualization, but I'd imagine (from a theoretical standpoint) that exposure to a dual actually allows you to specialize more in your Ego functions. The presence of a dual satisfies your super-id needs, giving you the ability to deal more exclusively in the realm of your Ego.

Mental energy is a limited resource. We may not use all of it all the time, but there is a limit to what can be used. If everyone could allocate this mental energy efficiently across all types of information, everyone would have very similar personalities, discounting behaviorally developed traits. But the socionic model predicts that we can use our Ego and Id functions at a lower marginal cost* than the Supers. The "valued" blocks could be described as functions for which we have a high marginal utility.*

For example, an LSE produces , , , and very easily, but has to sacrifice a lot of one of those to produce just a little , , , or . Since the LSE has a high marginal utility for and , he has to give up a lot of his other functions to use that kind of information, or remain unsatisfied. When an EII comes along, the LSE can specialize in producing what he is good at and likes (, ), and leave it to the EII to produce what he is not good at and likes (, ), and vice-versa for the EII. With both individuals now producing information in their respective areas of efficiency, they have become more productive and well-rounded as a pair.

* Marginal cost in this case represents the amount of energy it takes to divert your thoughts to another information aspect. A more technical definition is the amount of resources it takes to produce an additional unit of output.
* Marginal utility is the additional amount of usefulness or benefit derived from consuming one more unit of a resource.

[machintruc]

You don't develop your weak functions independently from strong ones.

[Rubicon]

You don't develop your weak functions independently from strong ones.

What do you mean? That they all develop at the same rate?

[machintruc]

What do you mean? That they all develop at the same rate?

Yes. If a LII focuses on , he'll think of at the same time.

[FDG]

I'm speaking out of experience here, because I haven't experienced much in the way of dualization, but I'd imagine (from a theoretical standpoint) that exposure to a dual actually allows you to specialize more in your Ego functions. The presence of a dual satisfies your super-id needs, giving you the ability to deal more exclusively in the realm of your Ego.

Mental energy is a limited resource. We may not use all of it all the time, but there is a limit to what can be used. If everyone could allocate this mental energy efficiently across all types of information, everyone would have very similar personalities, discounting behaviorally developed traits. But the socionic model predicts that we can use our Ego and Id functions at a lower marginal cost* than the Supers. The "valued" blocks could be described as functions for which we have a high marginal utility.*

For example, an LSE produces , , , and very easily, but has to sacrifice a lot of one of those to produce just a little , , , or . Since the LSE has a high marginal utility for and , he has to give up a lot of his other functions to use that kind of information, or remain unsatisfied. When an EII comes along, the LSE can specialize in producing what he is good at and likes (, ), and leave it to the EII to produce what he is not good at and likes (, ), and vice-versa for the EII. With both individuals now producing information in their respective areas of efficiency, they have become more productive and well-rounded as a pair.

* Marginal cost in this case represents the amount of energy it takes to divert your thoughts to another information aspect. A more technical definition is the amount of resources it takes to produce an additional unit of output.
* Marginal utility is the additional amount of usefulness or benefit derived from consuming one more unit of a resource.

Yes, I agree completely.

[Rubicon]

Yes. If a LII focuses on , he'll think of at the same time.

I don't think that makes sense. There are plenty of examples of eccentric geniuses out there who have clearly focused and relied on their leading functions and completely neglected the others.

[meatburger]

Yes, I agree completely.

Yeah what Riddy said seems very logical. I think you cant neglect the overall mental support of having someone to rely on. For example as a single non dualised person, i can only really rely on myself. Some could argue that would make a person independent and self reilant. It certianlly toughens you up but the cost is emotionally you feel drained and out of energy a lot. Not to mention lonley etc. A person who is with an incompatible intertype relation i would imagine would waste a lot of their energy doing things not natural to them.

I wonder if being with your dual actually weakens your functions because they take care of all that for you, or actually strengthens them becuase you can observe their proper use all the time?

On the vunerability side, i must admit i have never ever seen my ESTj friend more shaken an in distress when he found out his INFj girlfriend had a new boyfriend. She went to america on au-pair and he cheated on her(earlish in the relationship), so she reciprocated and hooked up with this dude. I vividly remember how he was acting and it was not good. I wasn't being hugely supportive of him even though he is my best mate, because i thought he was partially getting what he deserved. My friend met her at the airport and they got back together. The poor dude that followed her all the way from america got dropped lol.

[Brilliand]

Yes. If a LII focuses on , he'll think of at the same time.

Does this mean that developing necessarily develops (for LIIs)?

I don't think that makes sense. There are plenty of examples of eccentric geniuses out there who have clearly focused and relied on their leading functions and completely neglected the others.

Neglecting doesn't mean not being able to use it, it just means not using it.

[Rubicon]

I'm speaking out of experience here, because I haven't experienced much in the way of dualization, but I'd imagine (from a theoretical standpoint) that exposure to a dual actually allows you to specialize more in your Ego functions. The presence of a dual satisfies your super-id needs, giving you the ability to deal more exclusively in the realm of your Ego.

Mental energy is a limited resource. We may not use all of it all the time, but there is a limit to what can be used. If everyone could allocate this mental energy efficiently across all types of information, everyone would have very similar personalities, discounting behaviorally developed traits. But the socionic model predicts that we can use our Ego and Id functions at a lower marginal cost* than the Supers. The "valued" blocks could be described as functions for which we have a high marginal utility.*

For example, an LSE produces , , , and very easily, but has to sacrifice a lot of one of those to produce just a little , , , or . Since the LSE has a high marginal utility for and , he has to give up a lot of his other functions to use that kind of information, or remain unsatisfied. When an EII comes along, the LSE can specialize in producing what he is good at and likes (, ), and leave it to the EII to produce what he is not good at and likes (, ), and vice-versa for the EII. With both individuals now producing information in their respective areas of efficiency, they have become more productive and well-rounded as a pair.

* Marginal cost in this case represents the amount of energy it takes to divert your thoughts to another information aspect. A more technical definition is the amount of resources it takes to produce an additional unit of output.
* Marginal utility is the additional amount of usefulness or benefit derived from consuming one more unit of a resource.

Ok - I think I get what you're saying. That using your weaker functions just means expending more mental energy, and that being with your dual enables you to put this energy to more efficient use. Delegating responsibility. So as a pair, you may be unbeatable - but I was just thinking that overexposure to your dual may make you less balanced of a person as an individual. Because you're so used to the other person covering for you and ignoring your weaknesses .... Idk.

[Brilliand]

I wonder if being with your dual actually weakens your functions because they take care of all that for you, or actually strengthens them becuase you can observe their proper use all the time?

I think it gives you the freedom to weaken or strengthen them as you see fit.

Ok - I think I get what you're saying. That using your weaker functions just means expending more mental energy, and that being with your dual enables you to put this energy to more efficient use. Delegating responsibility. So as a pair, you may be unbeatable - but I was just thinking that overexposure to your dual may make you less balanced of a person as an individual. Because you're so used to the other person covering for you and ignoring your weaknesses .... Idk.

Since the unbeatable pair is so much better than each individual taken alone, I'd say the first thing to do when you lose a dual is find a new one. Patching up your weaknesses is preparing for the worst, not making something great out of yourself. It's certainly not worth giving up being unbeatable to function in a way you aren't built to function anyway...

[Rubicon]

Does this mean that developing necessarily develops (for LIIs)?



Neglecting doesn't mean not being able to use it, it just means not using it.

Yeah, but they may grow rusty with non-use. :-)

[Brilliand]

Yeah, but they may grow rusty with non-use. :-)

I think for the superego it's a case of becoming less harmful, not less useful.

[Rubicon]

I think for the superego it's a case of becoming less harmful, not less useful.

So you think it's not really possible to use the superego functions in an effective manner?

[Brilliand]

So you think it's not really possible to use the superego functions in an effective manner?

I think it's possible to get good results from their use, but I think the more you use them, the worse they get... as if they need a rest.

[Rubicon]

I think it's possible to get good results from their use, but I think the more you use them, the worse they get... as if they need a rest.

food for thought ...

[Joy]

Are people who are not in regular contact with their duals more well-rounded people?

It's mostly dependent on one's level of health and wellness, but it's a lot easier to be well and see personal growth in your life when your dual seeking function is being fulfilled.

Is working at developing your weaker functions a worthy undertaking or a fruitless endeavour?

Yes. It's like Chinese finger cuffs. Just allow yourself to be well and it will naturally be much less of a problem for you. ("you" meaning whoever)

Does this make these people therefore less attractive to their duals?

Your dual won't have much patience for an overactive Role, but that's just how duality works in model A (the interaction between the 3rd and 7th functions in duality).

How does dual-seeking manifest itself in someone apart from the obvious attraction-side-of-things?

I think some people tend to act out when their 5th function isn't being fulfilled.

Does having a long-term relationship with your dual make you a more dependent and vulnerable person in their absence? Or does a dual's leading and creative functions 'rub off on you' so to speak?

Yes.

Again, it's more dependent on health. Once you've been with your dual though it's difficult to be without one.

Should we try and develop our personalities?

Just allow personal growth. Focusing on this theory too much will make you unhealthy in and of itself.

[mikemex]

Socionics is like racism. People believes that skin color makes a big difference, while in fact is just a few genes, like 5 in 20,000, what makes you different.

Once you understand what a function is about, there is little trouble following that path. It's just a matter to be ready to ignore the feelings that you're wrong; because, after all, anything which is opposite to your usual way to be is perceived as negative.

[Exodus]

Yes, I agree completely.

Me too. Very well-said; dualization gives you lots and lots of freedom to develop your Ego, and the rest of it essentially just falls into place. But complementary relations have to be a constant input, or else you'll easily go back to unhealthy behavior patterns. I'm kind of experiencing this right now, in fact.