Enneagram type Gilly

[Gilly]

I realize that most people probably don't give a shit by now, what with all my self-re-typing :-P but I have a few questions about the Enneagram for anyone who is sufficiently knowledgeable.

Now, my approach to all typology is (in stark contrast with those like Phaedrus) to not take the surface descriptions as holy writ, but to instead look to the underlying mechanisms in order to find out what's REALLY going on. Thus, while, based on surface descriptions, I fit neither the typical picture of a 6 nor an 8, these are the two types whose basic natures apply to me the most.

6

Type 6: I have a need to find some viewpoint to refer to for my purposes. I love the idea of finding "one steady thing" to quell my anxieties. I am a bit of a "cause" person: I tend to absorb my self in one viewpoint, one way of life, etc., and give myself over to it as a way of finding this security. I like the feeling of always being able to refer back to some standard viewpoint for reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. I once wrote in my journal that I would love to be apprenticed to someone in some skill to learn everything about it and always have an expert to refer back to when my doubts become overwhelming.

Disintegration to 3: I have a great temptation to form an "image" as a way of creating in myself this "authority," this thing, whatever it is, that I can refer back to for security and reassurance that I'm "doing the right thing." And when I fall into this hole of image creation, I tend to get paranoid and defensive because I feel the need to keep this wall up. I use my ego and circular logical justification to prop myself up and make myself feel better about doing whatever happens to seem like a good idea at the time. It sucks.

Growth to 9: This is the part I identify with the least. I don't really know what it means to me. I'm generally good at keeping the peace, although once in a while my emotions take me over and I do things I regret, like being too honest about what I think of someone, or being inappropriately abrasive for the situation at hand.


8

Type 8: I am a leader. My groups of friends, wherever I am, tend to look to me to "lead the charge," so to speak: I organize things, I bring people together, and I know how to make things happen (when I can actually get off my lazy ass to do them :-P ). It's my natural position in any group; if I can't lead, I tend to sulk in the background and feel resentful to whoever happens to be "above" me, usually trying to get power of some kind, or even defame them if I'm feeling particularly nasty. I like to be in charge. I like being the one who people come to for answers. Being in a position of responsibility, where people are depending on me to fulfill some role or accomplish something, is what I am by far the most motivated by; when someone says "George, we're counting on you!", it's going to get done. The essential emotion of type 8 is anger; I've actually taken two MMPI tests, and I tested higher for anger on a neurotic level than any other factor that the test measures both times. I'm not generally an "angry" person externally, but I definitely have controlling tendencies that I believe are fueled by pent-up anger.

Disintegration to 5: I have a strong tendency to intellectualize things and rationalize my way around obstacles (case in point: trouble typing myself ). I like an intellectual challenge, but I tend to take it too seriously/personally and I let myself be affected by things that are, in retrospect, trivial and really have nothing to do with me. This shows itself especially in psychology: I've done a lot of research on Lacan, Freud, and Jung, and I definitely have some lingering scars from taking things too personally. I tend to get lost in the "rabbit hole," if that makes sense to anyone.


Growth to 2: "And whoever shall be the chiefest, shall be a servant to all. - Mark 10:44 - This is how I try to live my life. I find helping others with their problems very rewarding. My friends have always seen me as an open, safe, and trustworthy person to come to when they need counseling or to just talk about their lives. I find that sharing my knowledge and letting my ego take a back seat to someone else's cause can be very rewarding. Sometimes I get a little carried away, hoping to solve ALL of someone's problems or seeing it as my responsibility to make sure they're "cured" once they've come to me for help, but generally I find advice giving very empowering, and supporting others instead of being Mr. Leader Man is both rewarding and humbling for me. I was elected "Group Leader" in rehab (teehee) primarily because I was a positive influence on people's recovery through giving advice and sharing experiences with my peers.

[implied]

three?

[Gilly]

I would say yes, because a lot of my behavior coincides with 3, but it's all "unhealthy" behavior. When I'm acting three-ish, it's in a way that's running from myself and trying to create an image to avoid self-acceptance.

[FDG]

You've always sounded 7w6 to me honestly.

[discojoe]

I think you're 7w6.

[aka-kitsune]

You've always sounded 7w6 to me honestly.

I agree with this.

Especially since you seem caught between 6 and 8 which are the wing types of Type 7. I can't see Gilly as anything other than part of the "head" triad.

Sevens are de facto leaders when it comes to finding the next fun thing to do, or embarking on the next adventure. People naturally are drawn to their infectious enthusiasm and crazy energy. But they're not necessarily "authoritative" in the sense that Eights are. A beneficent Eight can seem naturally organized, quietly authoritative and have the grounding that people will recognize as indicative of tacticians. They mobilize. People just look to them for direction, seek their clear judgement on topics of concern. Eights can't help but take control of groups. Sevens usually shy away from responsibility for others.

Sevens are cult leaders
Eights are generals

[Gilly]

I like having responsibility for others. It motivates me. I think it's part of 3 integrating to 6, though, to be honest. I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm either a 3 or a 6, unless I'm missing the big picture in a big way here. The thing is, I can see myself integrating to either 6 or 9, and disintegrating to either 9 or 3. Definitely not integrating to 3, though, and definitely not disintegrating to 6.


If I am a 6, I'm 6w7, and if I'm a 3, I'm 3w4. My biggest issues, as far as the enneagram goes, are with identity and compulsive thinking.

[strrrng]

you're definitely not a 3 or an 8. probably 7w6, but 6w7 is possible (so/sx maybe)

[Ezra]

I don't think you're an Eight or a Six. Nonetheless, if you're still deciding between these two types, read this. I've highlighted key differences.

Misidentifying Sixes and Eights

Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive, and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.

As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.

The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.

Both types at this Level can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally. On the other hand, average Eights are more rational: they take the odds of success into account at every move. If and when they finally do become violent, however, Eights are more dangerous than Sixes because they are more ruthless, and the momentum of their inflated egos makes them feel that they can and must press onward until their enemies are utterly destroyed. Eights eventually become megalomaniacs (and may be destroyed after they have destroyed others). By contrast, unhealthy Sixes eventually become self-defeating (and may be destroyed by their own fear). Compare G. Gordon Liddy and Mike Tyson (Sixes) with Henry Kissinger and Muhammad Ali (Eights) to understand more about the similarities and differences between these types.

[Gilly]

Sevens and Threes are each outgoing and talented and both types can be self-centered. But Sevens are scattered whereas Threes excel at focus. Threes are oriented towards success, whereas Sevens are focused on enjoyment. Threes care about the impressions of others whereas Sevens, who are often quite popular as well, will sacrifice the good opinion of others if it interferes with their desires and their own conception of what is valuable.

Points for 7.

Sevens and Six can mistype, especially if the wing is strong. Both types can be high energy and intellectual and both tend to have a quick nervous energy. Sevens, however, have a far more optimistic outlook on life than do Sixes who are generally aware of just what might go wrong. Sevens tend, overall, to be more averse to responsibility than Sixes. Sevens tend to look on the bright side whereas Sixes find it difficult to make light of their difficulties.

I am averse to responsibility when I'm really lazy and pathetic, but having a feeling of responsibility towards other people is very motivating for me. I identify strongly with both the need to distract myself, as well as the need for a source of security or higher purpose.


I dunno, the more I look at it the Enneagram just seems like it has rationalizations for everything. I can see myself as most of these types. Maybe I'm just looking too deep/expecting too much.

[strrrng]

descriptions may seem to overlap, but each type has a very specific and fundamental fixation.

the six's fixation is on security, due to a feeling that there essentially is no foundation beneath them.

the seven's fixation is on outward expansion because they are trying to 'run away' from internal pain, or the feeling of being trapped in

since those are the only two types I can see you as, I won't list any other fixations.

[Gilly]

Man, I can see either of those...

7
I definitely have a sort of inward desire for "more," but I think it really just has to do with addiction as much as anything; I just always want something. My druggy friends and I used to joke about "filling the void." Blegh.

In terms of my outward personality, I'm not really as ebullient or constantly outgoing as I see 7s being; I tend to have a lot of fluctuations in that area. I'm generally either very natural and open, or feeling anxious and forced. Generally I'm way out there and happy and outgoing and expressive, or I'm anxious and nervous, at which point I become straightforward and have a hard time relacing. This description actually captures it very well:

Type 3 Sexual/Self-pres This subtype can appear almost Four-like. They can be dramatic and appear introspective, especially with the Four wing. There is an on and off quality to these Threes. They can be very emotional and then become very business like.

I am "future oriented" like a 7: I have to know that what I am doing is accomplishing something if I'm to do it well; I have a hard time staying motivated just for work in and of itself. I'm always working on some idea of what I would like to do with my life, tweaking it with the new things I'm learning about the world and myself.

I feel bad when I miss out on something really special or exciting. My task in life is to keep my mind occupied, or else it drifts to unhealthy thinking.

6
I definitely identify with the 6's sense of a need for something "higher," something to show the way. I tend to latch onto causes and ideologies and sortof let myself embody them as a way of feeling more assured that what I'm doing is right. I remember one time discojoe described me as seeming "adrift," so I guess that could be a point for 6.

I think I project some anxiety like a 6, but I have been pretty emotional unstable for most of my life so I've not really been "dedicated" to anything other than my various causes and, especially, my friends, to whom I am extremely loyal, often to the point of self-detriment. I have a hard time saying no to people I care about. I want some kind of security out of life; I see life as a struggle, and I really don't want to always be struggling with the world. I want peace, both for my inner conflict and the world at large. These are things I'm coming to terms with as I mature; for most of my life I've been basically an escapist, driven by fears of nonacceptance and lack of a real identity.

3
As for being a Three, well, I generally glom onto the interests and ideal personas of those I tend to be hanging around with. I see this as an extremely unhealthy tendency; I feel anxious when people notice this about me and I become defensive about it. It was hard for me to hear my mother say that I "became a different person" when I was really into the cocaine culture; I was only able to accept that that person wasn't "me" after rehab. I had this expensive looking Ralph Lauren coat that I liked to wear when I did coke...she said I seemed like a "different person" when I wore it; I acted differently, looked at myself in the mirror (even!) more and strangely, I was more arrogant, etc. And this was even when I wasn't actually ON cocaine.

Don't do drugs, kids :wink:

A point for the 4 wing: I have really intense delusions of being special or having some purpose. I really take it to the limit when I'm feeling off; earlier today I sought my "special purpose in life" in a video about the evolution of life on earth called "Genisis" narrated by this African Griot dude. I was trying to rationalize the video's perspective on evolution to think about a way in which I could advance human consciousness or our approach to life. I have the ability to be candid about it, like now, but sometimes I really get wrapped up in it. Pathetic, but true.

So most of my 3/4 stuff is really unhealthy and mostly due to negative experiences in the past. Probably not a good basis for my "healthy" type.


Other general stuff...I'm narcissistic about my intelligence and looks. Don't compliment or deride me about either, or you will either inflate my already bloated ego or be on my bad side for a while, although I generally do my best to not show it, because I don't like thinking poorly of people, and I know that I have judgmental tendencies. When I'm in a good mood I like to include people and make them feel comfortable. I really appreciate it when people are willing to be open vulnerable with me, because I generally feel vulnerable to the world at large. Catch me on a good day, and I'll be happy, engaging, and probably one of the nicest and most fun-loving people you know; on a bad day, I'll either be depressed, sullen, and trying to pretend that I'm happy just so people will leave me alone, or I'll antagonize everything you say, tear you down in any way I can, use your deficiencies to make myself feel better, be anxious, reactive, angry, provocative, and generally someone you will probably never want to meet again.

I'm usually never the same person for more than a week in terms of these variances in outward behavior (as anyone who has been here on the forum for a while can probably see).

Here is my sister's description of me:

George According to Liz
-Most comfortable using logic and reason; likes to think and talk analytically about emotions but has trouble with the actual experience of emotion in self and others
-Really appreciates hugs and physical affection
-Very good at talking about art, generous with both praise and specific constructive criticism, good at explaining what he sees, placing art in context, making links between what he sees and what he thinks the artist is experiencing; same goes for behaviors/phenomena he sees in individuals and groups
-In some ways highly empathetic and aware of others’ moods, but also has a hard time seeing how his own behavior or moods affect others
-Moody, gets bored and distracted easily, often retreats from social interaction, but can focus for hours and hours on something he’s really interested in or challenged by
-Spends a lot of time on the internet, likes to communicate with others virtually, but can sometimes be hard to draw out into actual communication in the physical world; but once you’ve got him communicating, he’s a great conversationalist and a great listener, and is genuinely interested in people and “how they work”; doesn’t judge people, likes to analyze and observe individuals and relationships
-As a young kid, prone to emotional outbursts, cried easily and was very sentimental about objects and places, got very angry and physically violent when teased, but was also really fun and goofy and game for any kind of play, especially creative play involving pretending, costumes, silly voices and characters, and would sometimes break into spontaneous interpretive dance when music was playing
-Wants to leave the path and make his own trail
-Can be self-centered and often wants to know what others think about him; thinks he’s smarter than most people and wants to be naturally good at everything (if he’s not naturally good at it, he doesn’t do it)
-Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether he’s really “present” in a situation, then later you’re surprised to hear that he was actually having fun/likes people/was paying attention, etc.
-Strong sense of honor for himself and others, vehemently hates unfairness and prejudice
-Generous and giving; wants to be able to pay for things, take care of himself, and treat others, but sometimes has a hard time “being responsible” and keeping things together
-Sometimes loses things or forgets to do things
-Willing to admit his weaknesses, but sometimes can’t see when they are getting him in trouble, or when he’s out of control
-Has a hard time seeing how his behavior in the present will affect what happens to him in the future, and making decisions based on that understanding; present satisfaction trumps future consequences (definitely would grab the marshmallow)
-Magnetic, but elusive…often causes drama in his family and is often the topic of conversation, is always the center of his friend group
-Very dedicated to people; would never ditch a friend or forget to include them
-Likes soft things

[aka-kitsune]

7. 77777777777777777777777777.

Trust me. I know you have no reason to, but you might say I've specialized in seeking out relationships with 7s. I have a brother who is a 7, and a long laundry list of partly unrequited romantic relationships with 7s. I'm currently infatuated with YET ANOTHER 7.

I have a *secret* desire to be a 7. (Because 4s envy others, esp. 7s who always seem to be having more fun then us... )

[Gilly]

What stands out to you as particularly 7-ish?

Your avatar is really cool, by the way.

[aka-kitsune]

What stands out to you as particularly 7-ish?

Hmm... well, frankly it's usually the addictive personality that I notice first. Not that I think other types don't certainly deal with this, but 7s are particularly prone to it. It's not difficult to look carefully at any type 7 and see somewhere that they're throwing themselves into an experience without regard for their health, dignity, better judgement, etc. Most often, it's drug or substance related, but sometimes, it's more situational, like an unhealthy relationship. Apparent compulsive quality...

I also think 7w6s are usually either SEE or IEE, so there's almost always a pronounced or focus on collecting experiences, and simultaneously avoiding pain or emptiness. It's a frenetic "monkey mind" quality -- they're usually bursting with kinetic mercurial energy... at times silly, funny, often contagious energy. Outgoing, usually easily social, seem to have endless social contacts and groups that they somehow maintain and frequently travel between. 7w6s, being double head types, can be sharp-witted and occasionally edgy. Since they're primarily mental, they're often ungrounded. Airy, but with a sensitivity underneath. Idealists and positivists that generally give everyone the benefit of doubt and potential. They're usually undaunted and bounce back quickly from disappointments by "reframing" situations to put a positive spin on them.

Not to mention, all 7s are Tricksters. That's their primary archetypal energy, along with that of the puer -- eternal youth. They're impossible to pin down or capture. They defy definition.

Your avatar is really cool, by the way.

Thanks! I especially love the colors myself...

[aka-kitsune]

-Strong sense of honor for himself and others, vehemently hates unfairness and prejudice

I was trying to figure out how to say this in my description. I've noted this trait in all 7w6s I've come across. There's a general unwillingness to criticize others not present, a kind of "red flag" that goes up when conversation crosses into a negative/unfair zone. ie: I have a 7w6 friend that gets really fidgety and visibly uncomfortable when group convo turns to complaining or carping about someone in particular.

He also has a very strong ethical social sense. Can't tolerate rudeness, selfishness, thoughtlessness, or social irresponsibility (ie: strangers littering!). My brother is likely a 7w8 and he also won't hesitate to confront strangers and call them on their antisocial behavior.

[Gilly]

7w6 it is.

Now, the hard part: Socionics type

What would you guess, aka?

[Ezra]

What would you guess, aka?

You know it will end up being ILE. Then you'll know you should've trusted your original judgement; you know, the one you had before I even made my first appearance here.

[aka-kitsune]

7w6 it is.

Now, the hard part: Socionics type

What would you guess, aka?

I see you're generally pegged as an ENTp/ILE around here by those who self-style themselves socionicists...

I don't have major qualms with that typing, but I'd say it's not out of the realm of possibility that you've got in the creative position, so SEE and IEE aren't totally far-fetched a speculation. A lot of your sister's description calls to mind various elements of my comprehension of . I'm not that familiar with various descriptions of ILEs. I know one off-hand who generally has no difficulty being sharp intellectually, but is prickly to most all except close friends. He's not friendly, and not comfortable being friendly per se. You seem more open and less cynical than I imagine most ENTps to be.

There's also a great deal of typing by quadra "values" that I think has questionable validity, FWIW.

[Gilly]

See, at this point I really just have no clue. I can't analyze myself candidly, so really I just want to hear people's opinions, and I'm pretty much going with whatever makes the most sense to me.

SEE is out of the question, I think. IEE isn't, though. I am about 99% sure of being intuitive, unless I'm still really, really mentally fucked up. I am also probably an extrovert, and probably irrational. T/F, I really have no idea at this point, so intuitive subtype of something is most likely, I guess.

[Joy]

I see you're generally pegged as an ENTp/ILE around here by those who self-style themselves socionicists...

Probably because that's what his first (and most frequent) self-typing was.

[aka-kitsune]

You know that inherently not knowing who you are is primary triad issue, and as this is such a pervasive issue for you it makes more sense for you to be 3, 6 or 9.

I think a considerable 6-wing influence can account for this.

[aka-kitsune]

See, at this point I really just have no clue. I can't analyze myself candidly, so really I just want to hear people's opinions, and I'm pretty much going with whatever makes the most sense to me.

SEE is out of the question, I think. IEE isn't, though. I am about 99% sure of being intuitive, unless I'm still really, really mentally fucked up. I am also probably an extrovert, and probably irrational. T/F, I really have no idea at this point, so intuitive subtype of something is most likely, I guess.

I'd lean toward IEE as most appropriate for an intuitive 7w6. I tend to think ILE has more of an associated gravitas and cutting cynicism, rather than the lighthearted facility with and you seem to display.

Sevens in general have difficulty with experiencing "real" emotion. I believe they feel it might pull them down and trap them into dependence, so this lightness is often quite compulsive. Feeling anything too deeply sets off the warning bells.

[Gilly]

Probably because that's what his first (and most frequent) self-typing was.

^Truth.

I don't really see ILEs as being cynical; this strikes me as more of a negativist thing in general. Playfully sarcastic, yes (which I am). But they don't usually come across as jaded or cynical in my experience. Not sure what you mean by "associated gravitas," but I don't really see them as having gravitas as a common trait, either. I think you might be thinking more of Gamma NTs or SLEs. ILEs tend to be more up in the air, lofty, go-with-the-flow, even, I daresay, happy-go-lucky type people, IME.

I don't really have trouble experiencing real emotion...sometimes it's TOO real. I have trouble with my feelings, but it's more about them leading my mind to places I'd rather it not go, me not understanding them fully, or being unrealistic about situations.

[Lotus]

I am about 99% sure of being intuitive, unless I'm still really, really mentally fucked up. I am also probably an extrovert, and probably irrational. T/F, I really have no idea at this point, so intuitive subtype of something is most likely, I guess.

Um... doesn't that mean ILE?


(Because IEE just seems... eh)

[Gilly]

I guess it seems "eh" to you, but I am still considering it. I am also considering both Beta NFs. And ILE, of course.

[theMime.]

I guess it seems "eh" to you, but I am still considering it. I am also considering both Beta NFs. And ILE, of course.

I had similar reactions to you and Ezra but of course that has to be taken with a grain of salt. And you strike me as more of a logical type but that also has to be taken with a grain of salt. I could add more but by then you'd have a whole salt shaker! =P

[Gilly]

I like salt

I definitely agree that Ezra and I are a lot alike. Care to elaborate?

[discojoe]

A while back, George, you said that I was 6w5. I denied it at the time, but recently I've come to agree with you. In fact, I think it's pretty obvious that that's my E type.

My point is that your self-confidence shouldn't be as damaged as it seems to be lately.

[discojoe]

You are not all that similar to Ezra...

There are similarities, but not enough for me to describe the two as similar.

[aka-kitsune]

You are not all that similar to Ezra...

There are similarities, but not enough for me to describe the two as similar.

Agreed. In fact, it actually never occurred to me.

[Ezra]

I definitely agree that Ezra and I are a lot alike. Care to elaborate?

I think you and I are alike, but Expat - having met us both - pointed out a few differences. Firstly, that you come across as far more nervy than I do, but also as more friendly, open, and jokey (conversely, much like Fabio, apparently).

From my own point of view, I think that you're less decisive than I am. Although it looks like I'm jumping around everywhere considering this type and that type, I can assure people that this is not the case. When I stick stupid types in my signature like "LIE 7w8 blah blah" or "EII" this is clear joke to me. Whether or not others see it is up to them. I'm not jumping around because every day things become firmer. Notice how when I came here I was clueless. Then I managed to narrow it down to LSE, LIE and SLE. LSE became out of the question as time moved on and my knowledge base increase. LSI came up. For a long time, that stayed, and stayed past LIE's disappearing from the list of possibilities. This is because I recognised the similarities between LSI and SLE, and my view of the type had changed (less MBTT-plagued). Shortly thereafter I confirmed that Ti base was unlikely, as was IJ temperament, so I ruled that out. I simply didn't have the demeanour for LSI. Then a new one came up, only previously thrown out there in earlier conversations: SEE. This brought new insight with it. And that's where we are now.

See, people, there is method and decisiveness to my reasoning. Anyway, with you, Gilly, you seem to be hopping around looking for answers. Not only this, but you also invest in others' counsel, which I tend not to do. I'd put this down to your being either a Six or a type with a Six wing e.g. a 7w6.

[Ezra]

Gilly is also uh... effusive. Ezra is rather restrained.

Funny you should say that. It's rare that anyone's told me that.

[Ezra]

Gilly seems to be "reacting" most of the time, or else playing the clown/exhibitionist and trying to get a reaction from everyone else, and only serious as an afterthought. You're really the opposite of that, and much more similar to me or Expat in that regard.

You're also much more chaotic than Gilly, regardless of whatever type he is, you are the one who is more obviously "irrational" in giving the appearance of being more mentally scattered, abandoning trains of thought half-way through, etc.

I'm not sure where people see any significant similarities between you two, honestly.

You're basically implying that Gilly is strong in Fe, or at least Fe valuing, whereas I have weak Ti, and probably don't value it.

[Gilly]

A while back, George, you said that I was 6w5. I denied it at the time, but recently I've come to agree with you. In fact, I think it's pretty obvious that that's my E type.

My point is that your self-confidence shouldn't be as damaged as it seems to be lately.

Thanks, Peter. That actually means a lot coming from you.

You are not all that similar to Ezra...

I'm not sure where people see any significant similarities between you two, honestly.

...Srsly?

The way I see it, I am more similar to Ezra than anyone else on the forum, and I would say he is more like me than anyone else here as well. We both tend to be people surrounded by controversy. We both have fairly large egos. We have considered many of the same types. We both have trouble settling on a type. We both went through the "ugly duckling" phase at the beginning of forum participation of disagreeing with people right off the bat and doing a lot of "learning as we go," sharing our opinions about ourselves or others without hesitation whether they were informed or not. We both like to argue for argument's sake. We are both know-it-alls. We were both even considering the same degree to pursue the same occupation! And, above all, I just feel a very distinct similarity, connection, or what have you with him; I sympathized with his opening phase to the forum because he reminded me so much of myself.

All of this together is a little too much to ignore, IMO.

I think you and I are alike, but Expat - having met us both - pointed out a few differences. Firstly, that you come across as far more nervy than I do, but also as more friendly, open, and jokey (conversely, much like Fabio, apparently).

I am obviously intuitive, and you are more likely a sensor, which is probably the main suspect there.

From my own point of view, I think that you're less decisive than I am.

I won't deny this. Again, intuition, I would say.

Anyway, with you, Gilly, you seem to be hopping around looking for answers. Not only this, but you also invest in others' counsel, which I tend not to do. I'd put this down to your being either a Six or a type with a Six wing e.g. a 7w6.

I do obviously hop around a lot, but mostly because I think a lot and am always keeping an eye out for new things that are signals to my type.
There is a method to my madness, I assure you. I don't just "not think" about my decisions; there is a lot of actual thought that goes into it. I just have a complete lack of perspective. I seem to easily forget where I've already been and where my train of thought is leading me, and how my current situation is like those I've been in before. This seems, to me, to be a failing of Ni. I tend to jump into the moment and lose perspective, thinking that what's going on NOW and what I'm experiencing NOW and what I'm seeing as relevant to my type NOW is of paramount importance. I am the quintessential "boy who cried wolf," if you will (although I assure you my intentions are good, or, at least, innocent ).

So points for an Ne/Si quadra.

And yes, I do invest in others' council now, but if you look at my history, this has only recently become the case. And mostly, now as before, the only council I ever place equal to or above my own is Tanehem's (in case you hadn't noticed, aka-kitsune's case is really just one that reinforces my own longest-running Enneagram type self-diagnoses: 7w6 sx/so).

Gilly seems to be "reacting" most of the time, or else playing the clown/exhibitionist and trying to get a reaction from everyone else, and only serious as an afterthought. You're really the opposite of that, and much more similar to me or Expat in that regard.

Heh, funny you say this...I am, most naturally, a clown and exhibitionist but in real life I tend to be somewhat reserved and polite until I get a feel for people; I don't open up very easily unless I feel a natural connection and a lot in common with a person, and even then it feels awkward for me to be open with them.

You're also much more chaotic than Gilly, regardless of whatever type he is, you are the one who is more obviously "irrational" in giving the appearance of being more mentally scattered, abandoning trains of thought half-way through, etc.

I think I am almost definitely irrational. The only reason I would consider a rational type (EIE) would be because everything else makes plenty of sense.

I am leaning more towards IEE 7w6 sx/so lately, fwiw.

[Ezra]

Sure, but is it not an accurate contrast?

Not sure. Maybe.

The way I see it, I am more similar to Ezra than anyone else on the forum, and I would say he is more like me than anyone else here as well. We both tend to be people surrounded by controversy. We both have fairly large egos. We have considered many of the same types. We both have trouble settling on a type. We both went through the "ugly duckling" phase at the beginning of forum participation of disagreeing with people right off the bat and doing a lot of "learning as we go," sharing our opinions about ourselves or others without hesitation whether they were informed or not. We both like to argue for argument's sake. We are both know-it-alls. We were both even considering the same degree to pursue the same occupation! And, above all, I just feel a very distinct similarity, connection, or what have you with him; I sympathized with his opening phase to the forum because he reminded me so much of myself.

Yeah, I agree with most of this.

I do obviously hop around a lot, but mostly because I think a lot and am always keeping an eye out for new things that are signals to my type.
There is a method to my madness, I assure you. I don't just "not think" about my decisions; there is a lot of actual thought that goes into it. I just have a complete lack of perspective. I seem to easily forget where I've already been and where my train of thought is leading me, and how my current situation is like those I've been in before.

The bold resonates with me.

I am leaning more towards IEE 7w6 sx/so lately, fwiw.

Ne quadra I can dig. Ti PoLR would perhaps explain the jumping around; more so if we discover that I too am Ti PoLR (although I have already explained my rationale, and I think it's quite consistent, regardless of whether or not others follow it).

[strrrng]

The way I see it, I am more similar to Ezra than anyone else on the forum, and I would say he is more like me than anyone else here as well.

ya, you're both narcissistic attention-seekers.

[Gilly]

ya, you're both narcissistic attention-seekers.

Ah, that's the word I was looking for. Well spotted. Attention seeking, too, but definitely narcissistic.


Glad you agree, Ezra. I was beginning to think I was just being crazy but I know that we are definitely similar in some key ways.


From Socionics.com:

These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities.

Understanding between partners is usually good. Collaboration between them may be very fruitful especially if partners feel a mutual attraction. When partners loose their feeling of sympathy for each other through anger or any other reason, they can apply pressure to their partner's vulnerabilities. This can sometimes be really unexpected and unpleasant for both partners.

Arguments in Look-a-like relations are not common practice. The partners usually try to help each other, or at least feel when their partner requires some form of assistance. However, in many cases the help is not effective enough because partners have similar problems. Look-a-like relations have an average degree of comfort. Partners do not have anything against each other but also nothing for which to struggle. These relations can normally bring a feeling of satisfaction from interaction with an equal and not boring partner.

Any thoughts, Ez?

[strrrng]

Any thoughts, Ez?

you guys are so gay, lol.

[strrrng]

I guess it seems "eh" to you, but I am still considering it. I am also considering both Beta NFs. And ILE, of course.

you're obviously over-analyzing. there's no way you're a beta NF, nor are you IEE. gamma is out of the question lol...ILE is obvious...