Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Niles and Frasier Crane

  1. #1
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Niles and Frasier Crane

    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...e&search_type=

    Certain beyond much doubt as far as I'm concerned: extrovert + judging

    Running themes through the shows: keeping up appearances, chasing after passions, seeding drama, ideosyncratic humor and the damage it does to themselves

    makes me think accepting Fe. ENFj to be particular.

    Are there other views on the issue?

  2. #2
    Gone. theMime.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have no clue but I'm also really curious about the types of those characters.

  3. #3
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They remind me of the A-team's Murdock somehow. (Frasier in particular)

    They are rather adept at balancing politically unprovocative behavior (or, lacking that, a rather marked intention for it) with ideosyncracy. The first can be read as accepting Fe, the latter as merry + intuition (as per Gulenko's +/- interpretations).

    But I'm still working exclusively from my own viewpoint here, so some outside input would be good.

  4. #4
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I adore the show. The writing is so clever, the acting is so good, the staging is like you're watching a play. Anyhow I'm thinking ENFj also for Frasier. I think I see Niles as an introvert. He was always so reluctant to reveal his feelings for Daphne. INTj??

    They just don't make shows like that anymore.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  5. #5
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    I agree with those who say "good show!"

  6. #6
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I adore the show. The writing is so clever, the acting is so good, the staging is like you're watching a play. Anyhow I'm thinking ENFj also for Frasier. I think I see Niles as an introvert. He was always so reluctant to reveal his feelings for Daphne. INTj??

    They just don't make shows like that anymore.
    yeah, when i saw the thread i thought EJ for Frasier and IJ for Niles. but Niles is so....punctilious.....yet they are both so status conscious....

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  7. #7
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    I <3 this show, or is that <2 ? Seein as I may be cool, or even better..may be alpha

  8. #8
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I <3 this show, or is that <2 ? Seein as I may be cool, or even better..may be alpha
    <2 is for me and allie... pick another letter

  9. #9
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    Frasier Crane ENTp
    Niles Crane ISFp
    Martin Crane ISTj

    The dog ISFp
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  10. #10
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I see Niles as an introvert. He was always so reluctant to reveal his feelings for Daphne. INTj??
    Certainly does make sense. I might come to agree with that.

  11. #11
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Certainly does make sense. I might come to agree with that.
    Would you say that Daphne was ESE?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  12. #12
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is interesting because many people here put the show under "Delta", and I don't really like it that much nor do I see the Delta-ness...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  13. #13
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is it really considered a Delta show? I don't see it either.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  14. #14

    Default

    Frasier seems like ENTj to me, but maybe it's just the actor. I haven't seen that many episodes though.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  15. #15
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Is it really considered a Delta show? I don't see it either.
    Yeah, that's the opinion of many folks on here, including Expat. I was sort of surprised, but yeah, I don't really see it. Perhaps I could see a slight Ne/Si bias in the way the show is made up and produced, but that would only make it potentially Alpha-esque (on the surface). I can't really make any connections with Delta though.

    And I might be fine with the ENFj suggestion.
    Last edited by Park; 03-31-2009 at 06:02 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  16. #16
    Smilingeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,228
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Yeah, that's the opinion of many folks on here, including Expat. I was sort of surprised, but yeah, I don't really see it. Perhaps I could see a slight Ne/Si bias in the way the show is made up and produced, but that would only make it potentially Alpha-esque (on the surface). I can't really make any connections with Delta though.

    And I might be fine with the ENFj suggestion.
    Well... given that Expat is quite delta himself while he considers himself as gamma, I think that should be interpreted as "not same quadra as me" therefore not delta. But whatever. I don't have any opinion on the show.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

  17. #17
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I must admit I know the show only in a very superficial way so what I say about Frasier is what I pick up from him just by looking at some dissociated instances of his behavior.

    Frasier's Father (Martin Crane) looks like a rather clear ISTp. This would mean conflict between him and Frasier, which should be rather easy to detect. Now I remember one episode in which Niles and Frasier compete with this man over the favor of some writer by taking very different approaches to getting into social contact with said writer, which seems to match what I'd expect in a conflict relation. I'm wondering wether this is the consistent pattern, though. Anyone here familiar enough with the show to tell?

    Skip to 5:11 in this video for Martin Crane:


  18. #18
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Something of conflict moment between Frasier and Martin at 2:15...

    edit; more conflict at 3:02 ; Martin ruins Frasier's evening by asking him to customarily walk his dog...

    Martin telling some ESTp guy that his kids hate him at 6:46...

    Last edited by krieger; 04-02-2009 at 12:39 AM.

  19. #19
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    4:28 ; something that can be interpreted as Ni/Se vs. Si/Ne difference of outlook on getting "bullied".

    More relevant stuff on this at 6:20

    7:08 ; Frasier: "nepotism! Hah! This problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger."

    Quote Originally Posted by socioniko.net ENFj description
    1. To be or not to be? A serious person focused on global problems. Sees the world in dramatic, even tragic colors. Expects all kinds of trouble. Beethoven's four notes—the theme of fate —sound like the theme of his life. He takes personal problems and addresses them on a global scale. Meanwhile he often also strives to give something back to mankind.

  20. #20
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Frasier's Father (Martin Crane) looks like a rather clear ISTp. This would mean conflict between him and Frasier, which should be rather easy to detect.
    Their relationship seems too easy and conflict-free, but I don't know...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  21. #21
    kensi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Ab, Canada
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    YouTube - frasier crane

    Certain beyond much doubt as far as I'm concerned: extrovert + judging

    Running themes through the shows: keeping up appearances, chasing after passions, seeding drama, ideosyncratic humor and the damage it does to themselves

    makes me think accepting Fe. ENFj to be particular.

    Are there other views on the issue?
    dont watch the show, but from what i can tell ENTp and to a lesser extent ENFj seem plausible for frasier. Seems somewhat detached in his views.
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

  22. #22
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From Wikipedia:

    Crane is well-to-do, with upper class and intellectual tastes and a snobbish, uptight demeanor. He is something of an epicure, and enjoys the finer things in life, such as wine, good food, and expensive tailoring. He is very well versed in the realm of literature, frequently alluding to legends such as Shakespeare, Edmund Burke, Henry James, Rudyard Kipling, O Henry, and Lord Tennyson, among others. He is also an aficionado of the arts, including opera, classical music, theatre, and antiquities, and possesses some esoteric and obscure interests, such as Mongolian throat singing and African artifacts. His large ego, coupled with his Harvard and Oxford education, make him extremely confident in the advice he gives on his radio show (where he comes across as much calmer and thoughtful than in his personal life). He is also somewhat self-absorbed and narcissistic, a consequence of his lonely childhood. He is extremely pompous and verbose, prone to making grand, melodramatic declarations regarding his intentions and making the most of every opportunity to make a speech. Frequently, his pomposity and snobbery is undercut and belittled by the other characters he encounters, and is often the cause of many of the misfortunes and crises that occur in his life.
    I think the first bit of bolded text is a clear indication of some kind of Si ego type and the second some indication of being ethical; SEI just doesn't seem to fit. I'm more inclined to see him as a LSE than a SEI.

    So I type Frasier as a ESE.
    Last edited by leckysupport; 06-26-2009 at 06:32 PM.

  23. #23
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lilith Sternin, Frasier's ex-wife.

    From wikipedia:

    A remarkably unemotional and restrained woman (her hair usually tightly pulled back in a severe bun), she has exceptionally pale skin, a monotonous voice, and dresses almost exclusively in drab, conservative clothing. She tends to express herself in long-winded, exacting, technical sentences suffused with psychological or medical jargon. Upon greeting the expecting Daphne and Niles, she congratulates them on "the successful co-mingling of their genetic material."

    Regarding herself as quite an intellectual, Lilith takes her chosen profession, psychiatry, very seriously; forming elaborate psychological profiles to explain even the most ordinary events is an activity she frequently engages herself in, alone, or with Frasier, though she is a firm behaviorist, which sometimes leads to clashing with his strong psychoanalytic, Freudian stance.
    Pretty much everything about this description points towards gamma NT - monotonous voice, conservative, long-winded technical sentences, serious about profession etc.

    ILI>LIE IMO. Relationship with Frasier might be a good example of conflict.






  24. #24
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think the first bit of bolded text is a clear indication of some kind of Si ego type and the second some indication of being ethical
    I see those mostly as Ni ego traits. Si is more related to practical aesthetics than to art and poetry.

    By the way, this in particular is ENFj > ESFj. ESFjs can be loud, but they're rarely pompous or melodramatic:

    He is extremely pompous and verbose, prone to making grand, melodramatic declarations regarding his intentions and making the most of every opportunity to make a speech.
    ILI>LIE IMO.
    I agree.

    Relationship with Frasier might be a good example of conflict.
    Then it would be strange they were ever lovers. Also all of the characters hate her, so the conflict isn't indicative of a relation between her and Frasier. Otherwise we might as well type them all as ESFjs.

    I think Daphne is a better example of an ESFj in the series than Frasier is.

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,834
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I can totally see ENFj for Frasier, INTj for Niles (or at least IJ) and maybe ESFj or Daphne.

    I also agree that the father is prob ISTp, because for instance, he keeps that ugly (comfortable) chair that Frasier would rather throw away right out there in the living room. And the father and Daphne get along OK. The dad and Frasier do conflict a lot too.

    I wonder what type Niles's ex wife, Merris would be. Maybe INFj?

    and on second thought, ENTp seems likely for Frasier. Probably more so than ENFj.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

  26. #26
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    INTj for Niles (or at least IJ)
    I think that's possible, but INFp should be considered too. He engages in a lot of things that look frivolous from an INTj's perspective (this is an INTj speaking ), and he is very socially active.

    The dad and Frasier do conflict a lot too.
    Conversations between the two tend to run along a repeating pattern:
    - Frasier makes some hyper-serious remark on a distant, abstract topic such as mongolian throat singing, psychoanalysis, opera, etc.
    - Martin relates what is said to something in his private life such as the dog, his work as a security guard, etc.
    - both think "what on earth is he talking about?!"
    - the audience laughs and the two drop the issue

  27. #27
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,428
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I see those mostly as Ni ego traits. Si is more related to practical aesthetics than to art and poetry.
    I don't believe these traits are mostly Ni ego related, art and poetry are forms of self expression, so I would lump them under ethical. Maybe the more avant-garde stuff is related to Ni. But that's not the point.

    All of the interests mentioned in the first bolded part of the Frasier wiki extract allow Frasier to give off an impression of a pampered and decadent man of refined tastes. Think of a stereotypical Frenchman and bon vivant. Which is an alpha SF thing, but I have seen traces of this trait in some Delta STs, so I vaguely relate this kind of behaviour to Si.

    Then it would be strange they were ever lovers.
    Well, both Lilith and Frasier are of the same sort of class, they both are psychiatrists and they are both intelligent and intellectuals. Put that together with being physically attracted to each other and I guess it would make sense that they could fall in love.

    Also all of the characters hate her, so the conflict isn't indicative of a relation between her and Frasier. Otherwise we might as well type them all as ESFjs.
    You're right.

    ESFjs can be loud, but they're rarely pompous or melodramatic
    I'm not sure about this.

  28. #28
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada's Prairie Farmland
    TIM
    C-LII
    Posts
    2,647
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think Niles and Daphne are probably LII and ESE, possibly H-LII and C-ESE (I'd have to watch the show again; it's been a while). I agree with SLI for Martin (certainly Delta ST, anyway), and Gamma NT for Lilith. As for Frasier... hard to say. I would guess a Creative subtype, anyway. I can't rule out EIE at this point, so maybe. If Lilith were ILI and Frasier EIE, that would be a relation of Supervision, with Frasier Supervising. Does that match the evidence?
    Quaero Veritas.

  29. #29
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Haha. I saw The Real Howard Spitz with Kelsey Grammer just the other day. I think he was playing some sort of Te Ego character there.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  30. #30
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    Ne-LII, 5w6
    Posts
    3,648
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I love this show! I agree with the following typings:

    Niles - LII (pretty obvious imho)
    Daphne - ESE (if not, SEI)
    Frasier - EIE works
    Martin - ISTp
    Lilith - ILI
    Bulldog - ESTp
    Roz - IEI?
    Last edited by Pa3s; 04-09-2011 at 10:00 AM. Reason: (This guy isn't ISTj)
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  31. #31
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Niles - LII
    Daphne - ESE
    Frasier - ILE
    Martin - ESTj
    Lilith - ILI
    Bulldog - ESTp
    Roz - IEE
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •