How to find/recognize ENFps: characteristics, observations, and styles

[Minde]

My sister, who I believe is ENFp, has a fairly decent sense of style. At least, she has a better idea of what's going on in the fashion world than me. Though, I suppose that isn't saying much, coming from me. But, still, she always manages to end up looking cute. Sometimes she'll experiment with stuff. Like different prints, flashy/sparkly stuff, accessories, etc. Sometimes I have to remind her that certain colors don't match. But she seems more concerned with how she looks to herself, than how she looks to the rest of the world. So I don't comment too much. Besides, like I said, her sense of style is better than mine.

[Topaz]

Sometimes I wear things that clash on purpose. Im not sure why. Maybe out of boredom

[Minde]

Sometimes I wear things that clash on purpose. Im not sure why. Maybe out of boredom

Yeah, I think that's one reason my sister does it, too. I think she's decided she can't keep on buying new clothes (limited funds) so she's going instead for adventurous mixing and matching.

[Topaz]

I don't really keep up with fashion. Its not unusual for me to save an item for several years if I like it and its in good condition. I tend to wear things until they wear out. Keeping up with the latest fashions seems to take too much work and energy, not to mention money. There are more interesting things I'd rather be thinking about.

Youre no fun. Youre supposed to buy expensive items, use them a few months ( a year at the most ) and then promptly take it to a thrift store for ENFPs to scoop up. Thats how it done. Get with the program.

[mrsmith]

incoherant ramblings , sorry.

[anndelise]

Hi, newbie here.

I've been very interested in personality typing for many years especially mbti and enneagram.
I am an enfp myself would like to discuss what I have observed in myself and other enfp's as being core traits that are easy to spot once you know what to look for.

1) The silly switch. This still confuses me , I can't explain it's purpose.
One minute I'm serious , down to business...the next I'm doing the conga around the office. It sometimes scares/suprises people cause they believe that one side of me must be fake and an act.


2)Enfp's seem to neglect so called freinds and family if they are not in the immediate vacinty, ie: different city , country.
Kinda like they only love the ones they are near..!

3) They seem to bounce between interest's / obsessions where they learn all about a certain subject in a small space of time , and then later put it on the backburner and move onto the next one.


4) The split personality syndrome, aka: the two faces. One face is happy and upbeat , the other more sad and contemplative sometimes having dark thoughts. This one is a mystery to me as well .


Please discuss

thanks.

the delta portion of the forum has had a few discussions regarding the enfp's silly switch....but i just woke up and am unwilling to do the search for them. However, the silly switch is often used for a variety of purposes, including
* attempting to hide the more darker thoughts
* needing a break from the seriousness of a topic/situation/job
* relieving some stress (laughter is supposedly a great stress reliever....imo, so is the silly switch)
* attempting to help break ourself/someone else out of a melancholy mood
* etc

I'm not sure about the neglecting people not in the near vicinity. For myself, I often call those that are far away. Unfortunately, they don't call me back. Eventually I get sick of being the only one to initiate contact so I quit doing it. Most often, though, these wind up being Fe based friends/family...so I'm not sure if there's something more to it or not.

I think there have also been discussions about the bouncing from project to project and getting easily distracted thus leaving some of those project unfinished or with the intent to return to them later. An enfp's home is often filled with these unfinished projects. And enfp's often run into problems if they have a companion/partner that expects the enfp to follow through with each "goal" instead of accepting this aspect of the enfp's nature. Not too long ago, hitta (i think?) attempted to state that the enfp insists on finishing what they start. A number of enfps jumped in to try to tell him how wrong he was. Alas, they soon gave up on the attempt and thus it didn't work.

The biggest thing though, is that enfps like to explore. Not all explorations lead to fabulously fluffy affects. The Ne allows us to move from topic to topic with fantastic speed. How we feel about a topic helps develop the path of our actions...whether to continue or change direction. Due to the weak T, we have difficulty explaining ourselves, our thoughts, our ideas, etc. And often in the attempts to explain, we get ridiculed because we're not taking a "logical" or "rational" approach. Eventually it may get to the point where we keep our thoughts/ideas inside of us, and to avoid further ridicule, we'll flip the silly switch. After all, the other person is showing that they don't really want to get to know US. Often times, the more an enfp runs into this, the more they hide themselves, and the more extreme the differences. (Note: this may also affect who the enfp keeps in touch with and who they stop initiating contact with.)

A while back I did a thread about enfp images: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...t=angel#158335

most of the enfps identified with the first picture:
But most other people expect the enfp to act/be like the second picture:

I don't think many people can handle the darker aspects of the enfp mind. Particularly if they expect the enfp to be a fluffy bunny and dance around flowers and talk about butterflies all the time. So there's few people who we can even discuss the real things with, and when we discover that the person we're talking to can't really handle it, we'll flip the silly switch to lighten things up...and distract them from our error of judgment.

[anndelise]

for the record, i expect a few comments coming in about how it's actually the inxps who have the darker aspects.

and, well, yeah, i too believe that they have darker aspects of mind...stress on the -er...meaning 'more than'


oh, and i don't think having a dark side is an essential aspect of being an enfp. but it's a very common aspect that many other people don't get to see. and as i mentioned above, the more extreme the reactions the enfp gets, the more extreme the differences will be, imo. so an enfp who comes from a very supportive environment isn't going to, for example, identify with the first picture as much as an enfp who comes from an UN-supportive environment.

[anndelise]

for the record, i expect a few comments coming in about how it's actually the inxps who have the darker aspects.

and, well, yeah, i too believe that they have darker aspects of mind...stress on the -er...meaning 'more than'


oh, and i don't think having a dark side is an essential aspect of being an enfp. but it's a very common aspect that many other people don't get to see. and as i mentioned above, the more extreme the reactions the enfp gets, the more extreme the differences will be, imo. so an enfp who comes from a very supportive environment isn't going to, for example, identify with the first picture as much as an enfp who comes from an UN-supportive environment.

I'm sorry, I wasn't as clear in my wording. When I said, "dark side" I didn't mean a sad , depressed melancholy side, cause I don't think an enfp can really ever be that sad , at least not for more than 10mins. (unless under extreme stress)
But what I really meant was a "serious side" that is in contrast to the fun loving person most people know them as ...kind of like in topaz's description: "...It seems as if they give themselves away completely, but this is not quite true. The ENFP has dimensions to him or herself that are never revealed to anyone except for a very close and trusted companion. If such a companion is not found then they will feel lonely even though surrounded by good company. "

ah, yep, that makes more sense.
sorry i misunderstood

[flower]

One of the things I really like about ENFps is they very upbeat and accepting/friendly all the time, they are great to be around. They can talk and talk and talk, its a bit too much sometimes tho.....sometimes they seem to say sexual things or something on the edge of whats usually acceptable to draw attention to themselves so they can stay in the spotlight and gain attention. ESTps do this a lot to.

Heart u ENFps tho !

[xyz]

One of the things I really like about ENFps is they very upbeat and accepting/friendly all the time, they are great to be around. They can talk and talk and talk, its a bit too much sometimes tho.....sometimes they seem to say sexual things or something on the edge of whats usually acceptable to draw attention to themselves so they can stay in the spotlight and gain attention. ESTps do this a lot to.

Heart u ENFps tho !

Yes. I love this silly switch. Keeps me interested

[Ezra]

Hi, newbie here.

I've been very interested in personality typing for many years especially mbti and enneagram.
I am an enfp myself would like to discuss what I have observed in myself and other enfp's as being core traits that are easy to spot once you know what to look for.

1) The silly switch. This still confuses me , I can't explain it's purpose.
One minute I'm serious , down to business...the next I'm doing the conga around the office. It sometimes scares/suprises people cause they believe that one side of me must be fake and an act.


2)Enfp's seem to neglect so called freinds and family if they are not in the immediate vacinty, ie: different city , country.
Kinda like they only love the ones they are near..!

3) They seem to bounce between interest's / obsessions where they learn all about a certain subject in a small space of time , and then later put it on the backburner and move onto the next one.


4) The split personality syndrome, aka: the two faces. One face is happy and upbeat , the other more serious and contemplative sometimes having darker more serious thoughts in contrast to the usual upbeat happy chappie persona. This one is a mystery to me as well .


Please discuss

thanks.

This is all relevant to my IEE friend back at home.

[aka-kitsune]

I don't think many people can handle the darker aspects of the enfp mind. Particularly if they expect the enfp to be a fluffy bunny and dance around flowers and talk about butterflies all the time. So there's few people who we can even discuss the real things with, and when we discover that the person we're talking to can't really handle it, we'll flip the silly switch to lighten things up...and distract them from our error of judgment.

INFps I think, often seek this dark side out. At least that's true for me. When I discover someone who I'd initially thought was skating on the surface most of the time turns out to have this darker aspect, I tend to be MORE interested in them. In fact, it's often very difficult/frustrating because I really identify with the person and want to get closer. And sometimes that's just really not an option. (This happens with the opposite sex).

But I'm always especially honored to be their confidant. Curious how some people become so comfortable sharing with me their darker moods; this comfort also sometimes extends to sharing intimacies that end up stirring up my own feelings. I end up conflicted because I don't want to push them away, but I feel like I'm too open to them.

[anndelise]

I don't think many people can handle the darker aspects of the enfp mind. Particularly if they expect the enfp to be a fluffy bunny and dance around flowers and talk about butterflies all the time. So there's few people who we can even discuss the real things with, and when we discover that the person we're talking to can't really handle it, we'll flip the silly switch to lighten things up...and distract them from our error of judgment.

INFps I think, often seek this dark side out. At least that's true for me. When I discover someone who I'd initially thought was skating on the surface most of the time turns out to have this darker aspect, I tend to be MORE interested in them. In fact, it's often very difficult/frustrating because I really identify with the person and want to get closer. And sometimes that's just really not an option. (This happens with the opposite sex).

But I'm always especially honored to be their confidant. Curious how some people become so comfortable sharing with me their darker moods; this comfort also sometimes extends to sharing intimacies that end up stirring up my own feelings. I end up conflicted because I don't want to push them away, but I feel like I'm too open to them.

I've had easier times opening up some of the more hidden aspects of myself to INFps. But I think that it's because I tend to leave a few hints here and there. Most people don't catch on to them nor link them together. But INFps always seem to. It could also be that the INFp is more likely to notice it AND ask about it whereas another type may notice it but not ask about it...(?) Also, INFps seem more accepting to these sides, and more understanding of the need to keep it hidden so the enfp feels less judged by their hidden thoughts/moods. And, unlike the enfp, the infp is more likely to not talk about what was shared...with other people.

I think though, that there is also a difference between the dark/hidden side of an infp vs the dark/hidden side of an enfp. Like, to the enfp these thoughts/moods are dark...but to the infp, the enfp's seems kind of...shallow? and if the infp shares the infp's dark/hidden side..the enfp's eyes go round in shock at just how deep and dark it can go!! Basically, it might come down to the difference between a Victim's dark side compared to an Infantile's dark side.

[Slack]

4) The split personality syndrome, aka: the two faces. One face is happy and upbeat , the other more serious and contemplative sometimes having darker more serious thoughts in contrast to the usual upbeat happy chappie persona. This one is a mystery to me as well .

Or sometimes I think that could be only an appearance of two faces when it would be more about that its not the whole ENFP being understood or recognized. For example, one can choose to interact/relate only with the happy ENFP face and regard this as the whole person, but do this enough times and a negative feedback loop is formed and an ENFP might grow a seemingly hidden 'darkness'? The double face then is not really a double face, but more the result of not seeing the whole picture. A frustration could feed a dark side loop. As always (at least to me), it seems the ENFP is innocent in the whole process, unless manipulative - then it seems the ENFP can play a game with those who don't see the whole picture, or are even denied the whole picture. I dunno, just what I think for now. Make any sense?

[anndelise]

4) The split personality syndrome, aka: the two faces. One face is happy and upbeat , the other more serious and contemplative sometimes having darker more serious thoughts in contrast to the usual upbeat happy chappie persona. This one is a mystery to me as well .

Or sometimes I think that could be only an appearance of two faces when it would be more about that its not the whole ENFP being understood or recognized. For example, one can choose to interact/relate only with the happy ENFP face and regard this as the whole person, but do this enough times and a negative feedback loop is formed and an ENFP might grow a seemingly hidden 'darkness'? The double face then is not really a double face, but more the result of not seeing the whole picture. A frustration could feed a dark side loop. As always (at least to me), it seems the ENFP is innocent in the whole process, unless manipulative - then it seems the ENFP can play a game with those who don't see the whole picture, or are even denied the whole picture. I dunno, just what I think for now. Make any sense?

makes sense to me.

i'll add that, kind of like what you said in the second sentence, there seem to be many people that don't want to know the enfp in full....like they'll only accept parts of the enfp and if the enfp shows that there is more to them, the person wants to dismiss it or hem the enfp into a preconceived image. I run into this problem most often with FeXi. (but I would think that every type/person deals with this to some extent so I don't think it's exclusive to enfp) (this is where the silly switch can come in handy....when we attempt to show ourselves to someone, they don't respond well to that part of us, so we'll flip the switch as a stress relieving mechanism...get them laughing or something...distract them with something else...then sit there and brood internally a bit (see that first picture)).

I do feel sorry for the enfp who doesnt have at least a few people to share some of those parts with, though. A little here, a little there is far better than nothing at all...but not as good as at least one person who not only knows it all, but lets the enfp talk about it and doesn't judge them for the thoughts/moods they can't control. Being able to safely talk about it also helps to relieve any pressure that the thoughts/moods are building up. But dwelling on it is a completely different matter.

[Creepy-]

Lately I have been thinking about how people come across on the forum, and wondering about forum vs. real world interpretations of people of a certain type. In particular, IEE's.

What would you say are the most characteristic traits of IEE's in the real world? As in, if you were describing them to someone who didn't know how to recognize them in everyday situations, what would you say are easily-identifiable characteristics of IEE's, either in general or in the ones you know and have come to love?


[I know this question seems overly simplistic, and that's intentional; generalizations are welcome.]

[tereg]

A disposition of curiosity and self-reflection. You might see them clearly go in and out of daydreaming and awareness of their surroundings. Like someone seated holding a newspaper, but their eyes aren't even looking at the newspaper or not moving their eyes in a reading motion for considerable blocks of time.

In unfamiliar social events, finding a comfortable "spot" or a person they feel comfortable with and sticking to that area or person. Otherwise, apt to wander around until it is found.

A bit uptight at first in the company of unfamiliar people or unfamiliar social situations. And depending on their aptitude of the setting, either quickly able to adjust to the situation and get comfortable, or visibly grow more uptight.

[Creepy-]

A disposition of curiosity and self-reflection. You might see them clearly go in and out of daydreaming and awareness of their surroundings. Like someone seated holding a newspaper, but their eyes aren't even looking at the newspaper or not moving their eyes in a reading motion for considerable blocks of time.

In unfamiliar social events, finding a comfortable "spot" or a person they feel comfortable with and sticking to that area or person. Otherwise, apt to wander around until it is found.

A bit uptight at first in the company of unfamiliar people or unfamiliar social situations. And depending on the aptitude of the setting, either quickly able to adjust to the situation and get comfortable, or visibly grow more uptight.

Eh... really? I don't think this is something I have noticed as being usual in IEE's I know irl, especially the bolded part. Doesn't Ne+Fi lead IEE's to seek out new people to get to know and learn about? Maybe others can say....

[tereg]

Well let me put it this way. I'd say that an IEE is more apt to frequently move from circle to circle (meaning circles of conversations, attempting to eavesdrop or looking for a "proper" moment to jump into the conversation), or room to room and then finding a "spot" in the room to settle for the time being when the social gathering has a substantial amount of people there. If it's a more intimate environment with less people, probably not nearly as much moving around.

Let's say it's a party with 40 people in one house. It's kind of like consciously moving from station to station, having in mind where to go when your time at the current station feels like it's about over. Like I might go into the kitchen to see what's going on in there. I might try to blend in there or something. But I probably won't stay in the kitchen for too long, that would be sort of odd, so I'd probably have the next "stop" in mind, like, outside on the porch. Yes, these are things I consciously think about while in the setting, so I get distracted from time to time as to the actual conversation topic.

Edit: So it's basically a scanning kind of look. Looking around or thinking about where I might want to land next.

[dattebayo]

uhm, this is actually a hard question for an IEE to answer. it is prolly easier to describe another IEE.
I only know one other IEE irl. He looks like he's 12 and he's my age (26) LOL He smiles a lot (and he means it when he smiles), he's scattered and friendly and looks it too. He's always talking - about something slightly crazy most likely. Nah, actually he can be quiet too. When he's with ppl he doesn't know yet, but mostly talking. A lot and loud. Our convos tend to increase in volume until we're shouting and tend to end with us going off on some adventure, sometimes for real other times just in our heads We can have more quiet convos also. More serious I guess.
hmm what else... He prefers one on one, but when we're with others he want's to include everyone. That said he can be quite selective. Selective in terms of who he likes and who he doesn't like. I always know when he doesn't like someone cuz I can see it in his face He's very real and very honest
he gets along with most ppl. But when we're with a crowd he will try to hide his f-ness. He will on a rare occasion try to display some Se, if there is someone Se-ing him. he only let's his guard down completely, when around people he trusts, but I have never thought of him as fake.
He's not too disciplined. He will always try, though
he's long and lanky. Walks kinda clumsy
oh and he loves sport. We must have watched and played everything together

[tiny_dancer]

I haven't run into many IEEs.. I'm still trying to figure out who in my high school class could have been IEE. Even who in my entire high school.. and I'm drawing a blank. I didn't talk to many people in high school, though.

The other ones I've run into briefly - they appear calm and quiet at first blush. In a large-ish social event, I saw one in a smaller circle, but watching everyone, and I could see the mental wheels turning as he observed. Then when I started talking to him he would go from goofy to serious to sarcastic and back to goofy in a very short time frame.

I'm actually thinking of one time in particular where I ran into one in a beach bodega - he looked rather detached until I ordered my sandwich and asked him for directions - then all of a sudden he launched into a story about how that morning he slipped in his bathroom and accidentally tore the toilet tank off the wall. Water began pouring out, and he thought he could fix the problem by turned off the valve. Nope. The pipe was broken below the valve. So water flooded his apartment... aaaand.. that's that. The crazy gestures and facial expressions ended and he went back to calmly making my sandwich and giving me very detailed directions - two different ways to get to the same bridge, including why the two roads were named differently, etc. All-in-all it was too much information..about the bridge, I mean. I enjoyed the toilet story. haha

Sometimes it seems like they have something they want to say, but don't.

You might see them clearly go in and out of daydreaming and awareness of their surroundings.

I do this a lot.

[tereg]

Sometimes it seems like they have something they want to say, but don't.

omg, this.

[dattebayo]

if I daydream, I'm not aware of it. I never thought of my self as a day dreamer, but thinking about it, I might be. Big time

[xyz]

omg, this.

Looks like you wanna say something here tereg.

[Park]

Looks like you wanna say something here tereg.

[meatburger]

Eh... really? I don't think this is something I have noticed as being usual in IEE's I know irl, especially the bolded part. Doesn't Ne+Fi lead IEE's to seek out new people to get to know and learn about? Maybe others can say....

I agree with what he said totally. I went to an old work function with 100's of people the other night. There were groups smattered everywhere but i found myself sticking to one or two particular groups of people i knew. I could to go to any group and i could talk to them, i dunno i just didn't want to. I dont find it easy to shoot the breeze for very long (talking about just crap with people). I do very much like it when others know people i dont know and i can follow them into the fray. I like meeting people in personal settings like when someone brings a new friend over and i can get to know them.

I know a tall good looking enfp and hes what someone else says he just seems calm and quiet. Wheras im a little more rambunctious. I often say things in the presence of others that skirt along the borders of wrong but not quite. I dont mind joking to people in controlled circumstances like behind a shop counter. Like the other day at the movies i said about my friends freezie "it looks a bit like a poo", and my mate said "as long as it doesn't taste like it" and the girl behind the counter said "did you hear about the hotel staff that put poo in the persons icecream? (recent news story)" im like "yep i hope that wasn't you lisa". I think the last part she didn't like quite as much actually lol. Also at the same cinema when asked where we want to sit my friend said "how many people are in the cinema?" and she said two. So im like "sit us right next to them, on either side, lets really creep them out". She seemed to think this was a marvellous idea

Or when we were at wine tasting and everyone was all serious and quiet, i just cant help laughing and fucking the atmosphere up. Like everyone is trying to act all sophisticated and proper "ooh yes that has a woody taste", and i just said "It tastes like im skydiving on the moon, like im running through a field of rasberries or something". My ESTj friend and INFj girlfriend just glared at me and that just made me laugh more. I really hate people acting posh or stuck up.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I view real-life IEEs as being pretty people friendly and sociable, and understanding how all systems work in a general sense, so they're really able to help others discover where they belong. They seem to be drawn to introverts- feel safe to counsel them. Want a sense of human realism and emotionality. They seem to enjoy political correctness, and people getting along- they can really envision the best in a person. They do very well in an academia setting. They want a sense of 'humanity' in their chosen occupation. Even though they are indeed tolerant and liberal, they still do not quite like it when somebody does something off-the-wall in my experience. If somebody is 'too much' of something, they'll try hard to get them to see the objectivity of their actions. They prefer self-reflections that are hopeful. They greatly admire an individual's need to redeem themselves.

They're quite adapt at sticking up for the mistreated/victims in society.

They want people's inner world and how society sees them to match in the most harmonious way possible, so they try to get the bussinessman and the artist to compromise as much as they can. Despite wanting to be very diplomatic and a people-putter-together, they're still of course more drawn to the darker outcasts in society then not. I say their area of personal growth is to take a more decisive, direct stand on things. They say they're against mind controlling and people having free minds, which is all well and good- but then it seems like they go ahead and mind control people themselves (not realizing it) or being too kinda uppity/bland with their views.

They're probably drawn to quiet, self-reflective people because those people can teach them where they really stand on things. What they really want out of life, and what they truly value. Instead of being a 'ghost' that has to diplomat, and see every possible outcome.

[tereg]

I went to an old work function with 100's of people the other night. There were groups smattered everywhere but i found myself sticking to one or two particular groups of people i knew. I could to go to any group and i could talk to them, i dunno i just didn't want to. I dont find it easy to shoot the breeze for very long (talking about just crap with people). I do very much like it when others know people i dont know and i can follow them into the fray. I like meeting people in personal settings like when someone brings a new friend over and i can get to know them.

I identify with this so much. Absolutely true for me as well.

Like everyone is trying to act all sophisticated and proper "ooh yes that has a woody taste", and i just said "It tastes like im skydiving on the moon, like im running through a field of rasberries or something". My ESTj friend and INFj girlfriend just glared at me and that just made me laugh more. I really hate people acting posh or stuck up.

This made me laugh a lot.

I'm right there with you meatburger.

ooh yes that has a woody taste ... rofl... so good. I don't know why that phrase is so funny to me, but it is. I can hear this phrase being said in a mockingly high-pitched posh British accent.

Anyway, I identify with the whole thing a lot actually. Sort of understanding how to mess around with people like that. I like that.

[Creepy-]

Well let me put it this way. I'd say that an IEE is more apt to frequently move from circle to circle (meaning circles of conversations, attempting to eavesdrop or looking for a "proper" moment to jump into the conversation), or room to room and then finding a "spot" in the room to settle for the time being when the social gathering has a substantial amount of people there. If it's a more intimate environment with less people, probably not nearly as much moving around.

Let's say it's a party with 40 people in one house. It's kind of like consciously moving from station to station, having in mind where to go when your time at the current station feels like it's about over. Like I might go into the kitchen to see what's going on in there. I might try to blend in there or something. But I probably won't stay in the kitchen for too long, that would be sort of odd, so I'd probably have the next "stop" in mind, like, outside on the porch. Yes, these are things I consciously think about while in the setting, so I get distracted from time to time as to the actual conversation topic.

Edit: So it's basically a scanning kind of look. Looking around or thinking about where I might want to land next.

Gotcha. The way I read it the first time, the word that came to mind was "clingy," which ime is not the way IEE's are at all. But the way it's explained here - and in meatburger's post - makes more sense to me. FWIW

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

An unhealthy IEE is an ambivalent, wishy-washy nightmare that can't make any decisions themselves and is totally 'lost out in space.' Going back and forth trying to keep everybody happy- they actually end up taking the side of the cruel/wrong in society doing this, their worst fears realized. They are unconfident about what they do know (or worse, they think knowing is everything), so they pry and ask too many personal questions or they give advice that's so 'by the book' it's laughable. They 'Bisexualize' everything and it's ANNOYING.AS.HELL. They think they know something, but really they're just replaying out their insecurities. Instead of their Ne seeing the best in people, they end up seeing worst case scenarios. They end up getting jobs in the worst prisons and really fucked up institutions, and end up becoming a prisoner themselves.

Average IEEs are more grounded. They start to feel comfortable about their personal views, and they're a bit more direct/real with people. They give their patients more direct commands instead of always wanting to be in a personal journey with them inside their heads. (I say this is more of a healthy level though...average IEEs are still pretty ghost/mediator like) I would say Average IEEs, are simply comfortable in what they do know and they stop self-sabotaging themselves.

Healthy IEEs help people beautifully and naturally, they are confident in their knowledge and tell people things more directly, instead of trying to make everybody happy. They begin to feel confident in their own, unique view of the world. They still enjoy the company of the quiet artist type (instead of being co-dependent or secretly self-guilty), but they let each other breathe more and the relationship becomes more free. Other people listen to the IEEs advice because they can sense the confidence and like they really know what they're talking about. It's like they're beautifully 'selfish and selfless' all at once, integrating their over-diplomacy with a more grounded sense of self-confidence. Their light and dark sides merge, and you get their True Selves.

Because of this, the Psychologist get hired in much better systems that are truly more free, open and expressive. Feel confident in their unique, liberal views of the world- but understand they can't save everybody.

[meatburger]

Wow i like that healthy description. I will have to work towards it Bullets..

Anyway, I identify with the whole thing a lot actually. Sort of understanding how to mess around with people like that. I like that.

Yeah i identify with most of what you always say lol. It's just funny seeing the people you know well act like they are multi-billionaire wine tasters the second they get into the winery. It has to be stopped!!!

[Creepy-]

I view real-life IEEs as being pretty people friendly and sociable, and understanding how all systems work in a general sense, so they're really able to help others discover where they belong. They seem to be drawn to introverts- feel safe to counsel them. Want a sense of human realism and emotionality. They seem to enjoy political correctness, and people getting along- they can really envision the best in a person. They do very well in an academia setting. They want a sense of 'humanity' in their chosen occupation. Even though they are indeed tolerant and liberal, they still do not quite like it when somebody does something off-the-wall in my experience. If somebody is 'too much' of something, they'll try hard to get them to see the objectivity of their actions. They prefer self-reflections that are hopeful. They greatly admire an individual's need to redeem themselves.

They're quite adapt at sticking up for the mistreated/victims in society.

They want people's inner world and how society sees them to match in the most harmonious way possible, so they try to get the bussinessman and the artist to compromise as much as they can. Despite wanting to be very diplomatic and a people-putter-together, they're still of course more drawn to the darker outcasts in society then not. I say their area of personal growth is to take a more decisive, direct stand on things. They say they're against mind controlling and people having free minds, which is all well and good- but then it seems like they go ahead and mind control people themselves (not realizing it) or being too kinda uppity/bland with their views.

They're probably drawn to quiet, self-reflective people because those people can teach them where they really stand on things. What they really want out of life, and what they truly value. Instead of being a 'ghost' that has to diplomat, and see every possible outcome.

An unhealthy IEE is an ambivalent, wishy-washy nightmare that can't make any decisions themselves and is totally 'lost out in space.' Going back and forth trying to keep everybody happy- they actually end up taking the side of the cruel/wrong in society doing this, their worst fears realized. They are unconfident about what they do know (or worse, they think knowing is everything), so they pry and ask too many personal questions or they give advice that's so 'by the book' it's laughable. They 'Bisexualize' everything and it's ANNOYING.AS.HELL. They think they know something, but really they're just replaying out their insecurities. Instead of their Ne seeing the best in people, they end up seeing worst case scenarios. They end up getting jobs in the worst prisons and really fucked up institutions, and end up becoming a prisoner themselves.

Average IEEs are more grounded. They start to feel comfortable about their personal views, and they're a bit more direct/real with people. They give their patients more direct commands instead of always wanting to be in a personal journey with them inside their heads. (I say this is more of a healthy level though...average IEEs are still pretty ghost/mediator like) I would say Average IEEs, are simply comfortable in what they do know and they stop self-sabotaging themselves.

Healthy IEEs help people beautifully and naturally, they are confident in their knowledge and tell people things more directly, instead of trying to make everybody happy. They begin to feel confident in their own, unique view of the world. They still enjoy the company of the quiet artist type (instead of being co-dependent or secretly self-guilty), but they let each other breathe more and the relationship becomes more free. Other people listen to the IEEs advice because they can sense the confidence and like they really know what they're talking about. It's like they're beautifully 'selfish and selfless' all at once, integrating their over-diplomacy with a more grounded sense of self-confidence. Their light and dark sides merge, and you get their True Selves.

Because of this, the Psychologist get hired in much better systems that are truly more free, open and expressive. Feel confident in their unique, liberal views of the world- but understand they can't save everybody.

Thanks for these, B&D - these are interesting and I think you make good points. And it's cool to see these from the perspective of a Beta... I'd be interested to see what you had to say about other types as well, taken one at a time like this, if you have the inclination to write them....

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed that. I love the Healthy/Average/Unhealthy thing in enneagram, and I think socionics should have something like that.

Socionics has a much better intertype relationship system, and enneagram has a much better umm solo/self-improvement system, so I think there needs to be some work done to balance that.

I'll try to whip up something for the other types too.

[meatburger]

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed that. I love the Healthy/Average/Unhealthy thing in enneagram, and I think socionics should have something like that.

Socionics has a much better intertype relationship system, and enneagram has a much better umm solo/self-improvement system, so I think there needs to be some work done to balance that.

I'll try to whip up something for the other types too.

I totally agree and it helps you type when you understand that some people actually are unhealthy.

[Creepy-]

I totally agree and it helps you type when you understand that some people actually are unhealthy.

This is something I've only recently become aware of. It may help with typing in some ways, but it can definitely complicate things in others... so much to consider.

[iAnnAu]

Also at the same cinema when asked where we want to sit my friend said "how many people are in the cinema?" and she said two. So im like "sit us right next to them, on either side, lets really creep them out". She seemed to think this was a marvellous idea

So, do they assign seats for movies in Oz? My SO & I went to watch a movie in Saigon, and were surprised to find we had seat #s.
When we got in, an usher showed us to our assigned places, and as soon as he turned away, I asked him if he wanted to move. "Are you kidding? We came in here for the air conditioning. Don't do *anything* that might get us kicked out!" I laughed at him, because there were maybe a dozen other people in the entire theatre - and besides, I can't imagine the staff would give a shit.

Or when we were at wine tasting and everyone was all serious and quiet, i just cant help laughing and fucking the atmosphere up. Like everyone is trying to act all sophisticated and proper "ooh yes that has a woody taste", and i just said "It tastes like im skydiving on the moon, like im running through a field of rasberries or something". My ESTj friend and INFj girlfriend just glared at me and that just made me laugh more. I really hate people acting posh or stuck up.

That's just fucking awesome. I would have *appreciated* you doing that.
It's funny, because my SO (who's LSE) gets more and more off-the-wall as you get to know him - to the point that now he's so comfortable with me that he'll do things to deliberately try to embarrass me - but until you have earned various hidden level of trust, he can be formal and businesslike. I could totally picture your friend expressing his disapproval for disrupting the atmosphere!

[tiny_dancer]

like im running through a field of rasberries or something

OMG this made me laugh so hard. Running through a field of raspberries would be the worst experience ever. Raspberries grow on canes with thorns. ahahahahaha

[consentingadult]

An unhealthy IEE is an ambivalent, wishy-washy nightmare that can't make any decisions themselves and is totally 'lost out in space.' Going back and forth trying to keep everybody happy- they actually end up taking the side of the cruel/wrong in society doing this, their worst fears realized. They are unconfident about what they do know (or worse, they think knowing is everything), so they pry and ask too many personal questions or they give advice that's so 'by the book' it's laughable. They 'Bisexualize' everything and it's ANNOYING.AS.HELL. They think they know something, but really they're just replaying out their insecurities. Instead of their Ne seeing the best in people, they end up seeing worst case scenarios. They end up getting jobs in the worst prisons and really fucked up institutions, and end up becoming a prisoner themselves...............

Ignoring a few 'bad' sentences of minor importance: excellent work!

[meatburger]

hehe thanks guys

So, do they assign seats for movies in Oz?

Only recently at our main cinema and i share your annoyance with it. They have allocated us seats when we are the only ones there lol. It just means the lines are 5 times longer because people are standing there trying to decide if they want row K or J . We are going to see bond on friday though and at least allocated seats mean there wont be a huge line outside the theatre and rush to not get the front.

It's funny, because my SO (who's LSE) gets more and more off-the-wall as you get to know him - to the point that now he's so comfortable with me that he'll do things to deliberately try to embarrass me

Yeah i have known this guy since we were 5 years old and i have seen the goofy side of him very often. Typically all i have to do is be stupid and he escalates to a whole new level of stupid all by himself. I think the reason why he reverted to serious is that he comes from a wealthy family and he does like the whole formality of wine tasting. We also happened to be at a premiere place at the time with really expensive wine bottles etc lol so he didn't want to be perceived as a pleb. My ISTj and ISFj parents are really down to earth though and that combined with me being an ENFp means i dont care about airs and graces much at all. I think his father is an ESTj (doctor) aswell and they both can appear a bit arrogant.

It was funny like everyone was talking differently, holding their wine glasses differently. Its Amazing what social conditioning can do to ya. I personally think wine tasting is stupid, there are people who dont even have food on their table yet we think we are awesome enough to debate about how good different types of wine are. My dad went to a work function once and he said some prat was talking about wines, so they switched them when he wasn't there. He kept on raving on about the shitty wine lol.

[iAnnAu]

Only recently at our main cinema and i share your annoyance with it. They have allocated us seats when we are the only ones there lol. It just means the lines are 5 times longer because people are standing there trying to decide if they want row K or J . We are going to see bond on friday though and at least allocated seats mean there wont be a huge line outside the theatre and rush to not get the front.

I just thought it was interesting that here we were in a third-world country but they were formal enough to assign seats for a movie. I wanted to tease him that the communists would storm the theatre and disappear our arrogant American asses, but really I was so relieved to get out of the blinding heat myself that we stayed where we were.

Yeah i have known this guy since we were 5 years old and i have seen the goofy side of him very often. Typically all i have to do is be stupid and he escalates to a whole new level of stupid all by himself. I think the reason why he reverted to serious is that he comes from a wealthy family and he does like the whole formality of wine tasting. We also happened to be at a premiere place at the time with really expensive wine bottles etc lol so he didn't want to be perceived as a pleb. My ISTj and ISFj parents are really down to earth though and that combined with me being an ENFp means i dont care about airs and graces much at all. I think his father is an ESTj (doctor) aswell and they both can appear a bit arrogant.

It was funny like everyone was talking differently, holding their wine glasses differently. Its Amazing what social conditioning can do to ya. I personally think wine tasting is stupid, there are people who dont even have food on their table yet we think we are awesome enough to debate about how good different types of wine are. My dad went to a work function once and he said some prat was talking about wines, so they switched them when he wasn't there. He kept on raving on about the shitty wine lol.

Fuck yes! My evil brain comes up with mischief like that all the time, but I rarely act on it. I had an SO who spent a lot of time touring wineries and building up a wine collection, but almost every single red he poured me tasted like every other, and similar with the white. While I don't doubt that some folks have actually bothered to develop their palates to a sommelier's extent, I think most people who aren't sommeliers are fucking fooling themselves.
As Charles Bukowski wrote, "As long as the bottle pours."