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Thread: Ne and Visualization

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Default Ne and Visualization

    Is visualization associated with ? Is this valid? Like if you can turn around 3d objects in your head, or read a math equation and see the graph or shape it describes... or if you see all sorts of images in your mind representing abstract concepts? Is this all associated with ? If so, why? Why wouldn't it just involve being "visual" or "right-brained"? eh?

    (I'm not sure this association exists... I simply had a slight reason to suspect it)

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    Well, that's probably my favorite way of thinking or piecing things together, not that that's proof or anything. To be honest, sometimes when I really try to wrap my head around something new it helps for me to shut my eyes so I can see. I guess I had always pictured this as being what Ne would be. I'm curious if there's any real correlation though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    it's not unlike looking at datapoints in a time series and trying to fit a curve to it.
    It can be. I would call that "visualization". Like maybe you observe things happening with your feelings or with things in your life, and in your mind you get a sudden image of a curve moving over a coordinate plane about how your feelings are changing or what direction things are moving in (how they are changing).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    maybe some sort of "personal knowledge" usage then, plus ethical functions.

    i still think it's more Ti than Fi, but then Ti is your hidden agenda.
    Oh well with me specifically it probably has something to do with taking *a lot* of math and several calculus courses.

    But in general I'm wondering about more than any other function here.

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    ^tee hee. I think I see what you're saying now, and am therefore happy.

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    I don't know if its necessarily related to (although I imagine it has something to do with it), but my spatial sense is off the chain. I never get lost. Also, I due tend to visualize abstractions very well. But I think it's a combination of the to quickly identify fundamental aspects of objects, and the ability to put them in place conceptually.

    Spatial reasoning is likely one of the many ways that makes itself known, since spatial metaphors are typically considered useful ways to explain concepts. It's the "fundamental, conceptual" element that is focused on. IEEs are great at identifying fundamentals of relationships, and I've known them to use spatial metaphors as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    For Ne:
    I simulate almost everything I can conceive of in this fashion:

    It is a operating mechanism of some sort, either a engine or a program or a model. I also see this more in 3 dimensions...

    I think Ni is more multi-dimensional, as in over time and such.

    Now what I can do in my mind is stop the operation of the engine at a fixed moment and inspect it from different angles and perspectives. In fact my gesticulations are often related to this.. my hands are moving a phantom model that's in my head around so I can see a different angle.

    If my hands are gesticulating wildly in conversation, it's not because I'm excited.. it's because I'm spinning the model in my head.
    I agree about the gesticulation. It's like I'm trying to show you what the model looks like in my mind.

    JRiddy
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    Hmm... it would be interesting to hear from other types... especially those with in the super-id.

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    What has been described here makes sense as my creative function. I don't always imagine the things I'm trying to understand, but when I do, it's usually very geometric, focused on the parts that are moving according to a set pattern that can be seen throughout the system. For instance, when I was learning Socionics, I sometimes imagined duality as two stone tablets, one coming down on top of the other, each engraved with one of the Model A figures. The really important thing was that when those two tablets came together, the complementary functions would meet, which was very important in a way that the visualization didn't quite explain. I finally decided that the tablets (I scrapped the stone bit) had holes matching the shapes of the complementary elements on the backs. This was all meant as a way of explaining the concept to someone else - I planned out how I could make a movable model that could be arranged to illustrate duality for any type, and could not be arranged (without damaging it) to show a type that did not exist according to Model A, but I never actually did it.

    I don't usually gesture, but I will sometimes, if I feel that the model in my head is especially appropriate.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    You don't know the power of Ti.
    I think he was just trying to be fair and unbiased.



    LII-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Hmm... it would be interesting to hear from other types... especially those with in the super-id.
    Good luck...those types seem to avoid the theoretical threads. We'll have to trick them with a thread like:

    aLpHA and DelTa PAAARTYYYY!!!!!!!!11 lolz

    But when they get inside it's all about gesticulation and pontification. Riddy out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    aLpHA and DelTa PAAARTYYYY!!!!!!!!11 lolz
    That would only work for the SEIs. Any standard SLI would be readily repulsed by such a title. Might I suggest for them something along the lines of ¨Fix my car.¨
    Classical socionics: (), ILI-Ni
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    How about creating a new thread entitled " types please respond" with a concise question that hints at things mentioned in this thread and doesn't force them to figure out which part of their thinking is ? We can discuss the answers in this thread, if there's anything theoretical to discuss.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    wow, we're getting all methodical up in here

    JRiddy
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    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

    it just occurred to me in more depth... admittedly I have an ulterior motive... I think I'm biased. I think I actually want to disprove that has some sort of monopoly on visualization... I think I'm too tired to think. Bye!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    I don't know if its necessarily related to (although I imagine it has something to do with it), but my spatial sense is off the chain.
    Funny you should say that. We did a simple experiment in a uni lecture once where people were asked to close their eyes and point towards the library from where our theatre was. I opened my eyes and was dumbfounded how far people were off. Like people seemed to be pointing towards the door because they navigate on like some pathing system, were i can just tell where i am in relation to other landmarks. I imagined the uni like a topographical map and worked it out that way. I asked my mum to point to our local westfield shops once and she pointed totally wrong?

    That being said, i wouldn't say my direction sense is 'that' good. ISTp's, ISTj, ESTj's to me all seem to have far better sense of direction than me so maybe its related to Te or Si or something??
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    my sense of direction is pretty terrible

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    If my hands are gesticulating wildly in conversation, it's not just because I'm excited.. it's because I'm spinning the model in my head.
    I gesticulate as well.
    Except that for me, I'm pointing to where the thought is in relation to my body. Kind of like there's some kind of projected hologram(nor sure if that's the right word) around me, and as I'm talking,
    • Something I saw before will be an image to my right, above my head,
    • something I heard will be a wave of my right hand off to my right side,
    • a related feeling will be whoosh of my hand towards my lower left,
    • some stupid possible scenario that just entered my head will be upper left and I'll do sort of weird thing where it's like i'm pulling that stupid scenario out of my head and tossing it away
    • something referencing the past will usually have some kind of wave behind me, sort of like i'm pushing the thought/whatever into the past.
    Any kind of visualizing, for me, is pretty much visualizing scenarios where there's interactions involved, a person interacting with another person, or with an object, or conversing about some idea. The actions that person takes "needs" to be consistent with the kinds of behavior that the person shows. Like, if in the imagined scenario, the person does something totally outrageous and against any kind of behavior they've ever shown a tendency towards, I'll have to stop, rewind a little, and play it again where they take a different action that is more consistent with their own behavior potential, or behavior that other people I've observed have shown.

    These kinds of scenarios serve the purpose of problem solving. Like, I pop myself or another person into a mini-scenario where there is one or more problems that they have to deal with, and then figure out how I/they would solve/overcome the problem(s).

    The problem is, when it comes time to actually write the solution out,
    • either everything falls apart,
    • or I'll forget the sequence/chain/flow of the solution that worked so well,
    • or I'm demotivated to actually writing it out since I already have a "clue" as to where it will go, or what will happen.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    i looked in the archives for this thread because visualizing is a huge thing i do, but in many different ways. i am constantly "seeing" in my mind's eye...

    i am an eagle that "looks" down on everything. one, for direction. great at direction. not when i'm in myself, but when i become the eagle. next, i can see the big picture of people's actions. i visualize what's going on from that eagle eye perspective of their lifespan and behaviors.

    i also visualize my dreams and they come true. i run a movie in my mind of what i desire, intend and that is powerful in making it come true.

    i also visualize energy, swirling energy in and through everything. i can see the energy in my mind's eye. i can manipulate it in my visualizations.

    i am also a huge visualizer in the physical. i can see and remember a person's face from meeting them once and i can pick them out of a line up years later and tell them exactly what they've done differently with their hair, etc. i am constantly noticing when someone changes hair, clothes, etc.

    if something is not in the path of my physical vision, i forget it exists. but, close my eyes and everything exists there. i can then see what's in every cupboard and drawer and whatever...i can visualize any scene from the past or person.

    i can take anything and visualize it 3D in my mind's eye. i can turn it around and see the other side, well, it's more like my eyes go to the other side to see it from over there.

    i have been a pretty good realistic artist from a young age. i can see the dimensions of objects and draw them as 3D looking on the 2D format. It's not very fun to do that though. I was praised for it but I longed to be able to emotionally express myself instead of doing realistic stuff, which came more naturally.

    my thoughts on visualization for me....

    love,
    kj

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