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Thread: ILIs-INTps do you dislike expressions of excitement and positive emotion?

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    Gone. theMime.'s Avatar
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    Default ILIs-INTps do you dislike expressions of excitement and positive emotion?

    When people express excitement and positive emotion around you does it make you cringe a little? If yes, then would you mind listing specifically what kinds of things because I'm guessing there will be some positive expressions that won't bother you, like if you see someone smiling.

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    This is going to be a difficult one for me to answer, but here goes.. I think the important part is exactly how it's expressed, rather than what's expressed. It's like.. I dunno, perhaps a part of it is also about who it is who's actually getting excited or emotional or whatever. I'm not really sure how to explain it. But consider this - SEEs are known to get pretty excitable or emotional at times, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything, I find it quite cute. But I really don't know how to explain the difference between this sort of excitability and the sort that would annoy me. Perhaps others would have more useful insights than I.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
    This is going to be a difficult one for me to answer, but here goes.. I think the important part is exactly how it's expressed, rather than what's expressed. It's like.. I dunno, perhaps a part of it is also about who it is who's actually getting excited or emotional or whatever. I'm not really sure how to explain it. But consider this - SEEs are known to get pretty excitable or emotional at times, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything, I find it quite cute. But I really don't know how to explain the difference between this sort of excitability and the sort that would annoy me. Perhaps others would have more useful insights than I.

    i think i know what you mean... like you like liveliness>enthusiasm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    i think i know what you mean... like you like liveliness>enthusiasm?
    basically, i think that is what he means....basically

    ....i mean...basically ;]



    looks like it is the difference of Fe expression vs. Se expression (which is fueled by Fi (knowing what we like))
    Last edited by Khamelion; 04-26-2008 at 09:02 AM.
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    I was thinking about this this morning before I got up actually.. now I'm aware there might be unintentional bias in what I post next, so apologies to Fe-valuers since I'm not trying to demean Fe or whatever, but here goes. I think.. sort of the way I see Fe is that it's almost like.. projecting the emotion. I don't mean projecting in the sense of "I'm feeling angry, therefore I'm going to assume you're the one being angry", since I don't think that's necessarily type or function related. When I say projecting.. the best analogy I can think of is the same way a singer would project his or her voice forward to the audience. From my perspective, based on what understanding and experience I have with Fe, that is how it appears to me, and it's that sort of emotionality that would make me feel uncomfortable. Well, if it were positive emotion it would probably make me feel uncomfortable, if it were negative emotion (such as anger) I'd probably feel intimidated. I'm not really sure how to describe this difference between Fe and Se with Fi, but it definitely doesn't feel the same way from SEEs. It's a very subtle difference and I think that unless you were to see examples of the two different types in action, it would be difficult to understand exactly how they're different. Again, I know Fe-valuers might see Fe differently here, and like I say, I'm not trying to demean or ridicule Fe or anything like that, this is just what limited understanding I have of the function based on observing Fe-dominants in real life (I don't really notice the same from Fe-creatives, but I haven't really socialised with any Fe-creatives outside of work apart from a couple of work outings, so I don't know how that would manifest differently).
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    When people express excitement and positive emotion around you does it make you cringe a little? If yes, then would you mind listing specifically what kinds of things because I'm guessing there will be some positive expressions that won't bother you, like if you see someone smiling.
    No. I just don't know how to deal with it.
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    i feel as though i might have the perfect way to explain it but i can't get the words out =\
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
    This is going to be a difficult one for me to answer, but here goes.. I think the important part is exactly how it's expressed, rather than what's expressed. It's like.. I dunno, perhaps a part of it is also about who it is who's actually getting excited or emotional or whatever. I'm not really sure how to explain it. But consider this - SEEs are known to get pretty excitable or emotional at times, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything, I find it quite cute. But I really don't know how to explain the difference between this sort of excitability and the sort that would annoy me. Perhaps others would have more useful insights than I.
    i basically agree with this.

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    yeah..."projecting" emotion is a good term for it. I will sometimes feel that twinge when friends act overly smiley, cutesy, giving hugs, etc. with no apparetn outside cause, especially if there is the implied demand of 'why don't you reciprocate to help me enjoy my good mood?' If I'm not feeling an emotional high myself, I guess I respond with more sarcasm/detachment than usual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I feel the same way. sometimes people being emotional is annoying, sometimes it's not.

    -shrug- does this make me Fe polr too?
    maybe its a different sort of annoying for you? when you get annoyed, is it normally because the person in question is reaction more emotionally than you are and therefore getting whatever so of attention Fe dominants get?

    -OR-

    perhaps you are INTp as opposed to INFp (that is what you think you are right?)

    on one hand i havn't really conversed with you enough to notice your Fe, on the other hand i have noticed that you're rather cynical
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    if it's genuine, non-pressured, and not interested in getting others to express the same emotion, it's generally fine.

    an example of what i do not tolerate:

    -happy birthday!!!

    -hm?

    -why aren't you happy? it's your birthday!

    -uhhhm....i'm ok.

    -smile, its your birthday!

    -so, what? leave me alone.

    (basically, obligatory happiness is stupid)
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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    if it's genuine, non-pressured, and not interested in getting others to express the same emotion, it's generally fine.

    an example of what i do not tolerate:

    -happy birthday!!!

    -hm?

    -why aren't you happy? it's your birthday!

    -uhhhm....i'm ok.

    -smile, its your birthday!

    -so, what? leave me alone.

    (basically, obligatory happiness is stupid)
    I agree with this assessment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
    I was thinking about this this morning before I got up actually.. now I'm aware there might be unintentional bias in what I post next, so apologies to Fe-valuers since I'm not trying to demean Fe or whatever, but here goes. I think.. sort of the way I see Fe is that it's almost like.. projecting the emotion. I don't mean projecting in the sense of "I'm feeling angry, therefore I'm going to assume you're the one being angry", since I don't think that's necessarily type or function related. When I say projecting.. the best analogy I can think of is the same way a singer would project his or her voice forward to the audience. From my perspective, based on what understanding and experience I have with Fe, that is how it appears to me, and it's that sort of emotionality that would make me feel uncomfortable. Well, if it were positive emotion it would probably make me feel uncomfortable, if it were negative emotion (such as anger) I'd probably feel intimidated. I'm not really sure how to describe this difference between Fe and Se with Fi, but it definitely doesn't feel the same way from SEEs. It's a very subtle difference and I think that unless you were to see examples of the two different types in action, it would be difficult to understand exactly how they're different. Again, I know Fe-valuers might see Fe differently here, and like I say, I'm not trying to demean or ridicule Fe or anything like that, this is just what limited understanding I have of the function based on observing Fe-dominants in real life (I don't really notice the same from Fe-creatives, but I haven't really socialised with any Fe-creatives outside of work apart from a couple of work outings, so I don't know how that would manifest differently).
    As an Fe-creative type I think I might know what you mean and don't see any reason why you should even bother trying not to offend people. Is it like you're irritated by Fe when it's coming off as "fake sympathy" so to speak, when someone pretends to care about something that they don't actually care about? Also maybe like telling someone something just to make them feel good, even if it's blatantly not true? or I guess when you feel like someone's actively trying to force you (directly/indirectly) to feel something that you just don't feel? These are examples of things that can annoy me as well, it's like undeveloped Fe

    I'm asking because the way I see it every function seems different when used responsibly vs. with ulterior insincere motives. For example I only feel "Te-PoLR'd" when Te is used against me in a manner I find insulting and stupid - it's as if the person doing it is just doing it for their own vanity i.e. correcting me/telling me I'm wrong but just for the sake of doing it and with no inclination to explain why. On the other hand I actually seek Te critiques when I trust the person and their ability to articulate themselves (i.e. critiquing/correcting my resumee which I know is crap). I was wondering if you distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' Fe so to speak in a similar manner?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misutii
    don't see any reason why you should even bother trying not to offend people.

    thats what i told um

    i think you're on to something in your second paragraph there
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post

    ETA: If glamourama turns out to be a Gamma I wouldn't find it totally surprising.
    there is like 0.1% chance of glamourama being Gamma as I get the same annoyed feeling she expressed in regards to Fe sometimes and there's like 0.09% chance I'm gamma

    The thing is that when IEIs like glamourama or I say something like "Fe can be annoying" it's different than when an Fe-PoLR type states it - for them it's not just something annoying that they can brush away, like a fly buzzing around a meal, but rather something potentially harmful that can leave a mark psychologically, more like poison hidden in a meal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Excitement and positive emotion is totally fine until they expect me to get involved
    I wonder if this is the norm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Excitement and positive emotion is totally fine until they expect me to get involved, which will only make me bored or irritated depending on how close I am to the person.

    ETA: If glamourama turns out to be a Gamma I wouldn't find it totally surprising.
    If you were wrong in this case, I wouldn't find it surprising either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    If you were wrong in this case, I wouldn't find it surprising either.
    I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't surprised that you weren't surprised about her being un-surprised about you being un-surprised about her being un-surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    As an Fe-creative type I think I might know what you mean and don't see any reason why you should even bother trying not to offend people. Is it like you're irritated by Fe when it's coming off as "fake sympathy" so to speak, when someone pretends to care about something that they don't actually care about? Also maybe like telling someone something just to make them feel good, even if it's blatantly not true? or I guess when you feel like someone's actively trying to force you (directly/indirectly) to feel something that you just don't feel? These are examples of things that can annoy me as well, it's like undeveloped Fe

    I'm asking because the way I see it every function seems different when used responsibly vs. with ulterior insincere motives. For example I only feel "Te-PoLR'd" when Te is used against me in a manner I find insulting and stupid - it's as if the person doing it is just doing it for their own vanity i.e. correcting me/telling me I'm wrong but just for the sake of doing it and with no inclination to explain why. On the other hand I actually seek Te critiques when I trust the person and their ability to articulate themselves (i.e. critiquing/correcting my resumee which I know is crap). I was wondering if you distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' Fe so to speak in a similar manner?
    I'm so curious to hear the responses to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't surprised that you weren't surprised about her being un-surprised about you being un-surprised about her being un-surprised.
    Well that's unforeseeable.
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    Oh wait, I mean surprising! Shit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Oh wait, I mean surprising! Shit!
    It wouldn't surprise me that you were surprised at your mistake.
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    We're not very surprising people are we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    We're not very surprising people are we?
    Are you surprised by that?
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    This joke is getting surprisingly old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    hahaha. =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    yeah. I think I'm kind of a bitch though. lol k not really, I just... I dunno... I think I'm depressed, might have something to do with it... but I'm actually pretty optimistic about my life and future and such, even though I do bitch a lot sometimes (:


    that sounds like how i used to be, maybe you're SEE? muahahaha

    juuust kidding.
    i was kinda nuts too, and spoke of things i knew nothing of.


    who am i kidding? im still nuts and do that ;]
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    I do not see why that would make you have a Fe-PoLR. Fe is about reading the underlying internal dynamics that in social contexts usually translates as emotions. If you are reading these emotional broadcast signals of happiness as being fake or obligatory, then I think that it could be just as bad if not worse for someone with Fe in their ego as you would be the one best able to tell (apart from maybe someone with Fi in their ego who would also have strong Fe). The misconception that Fe = fake or obligatory happiness or insincerity needs to end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post

    yes, I've typed myself as INFp.

    yeah. I think I'm kind of a bitch though. lol k not really, I just... I dunno... I think I'm depressed, might have something to do with it... but I'm actually pretty optimistic about my life and future and such, even though I do bitch a lot sometimes (:
    The describes me pretty well too, except that as a male I suppose others would view me as an "asshole" or "conceited prick", as they would serve as better nouns than bitch, but really, as far as I'm concerned, people that have had such views of me have either possessed double digit IQs or are so psychologically deformed that when I'm near them I feel like I have a Phd in clinical psychiatry(a feeling that takes most people 7 years of social isolation doing hard academic labour to achieve lol suckers), which makes me content enough to give them the good old Betan STFU goodbye
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    You all suck.
    Please tell us how you really feel about us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    ?
    I was being facetious.
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    It's funny to me how the question asked in the first post is still not adequately answered (or at least not imo) Only blauritson actually made a truly detailed attempt.

    I would really like to know what exactly it is about vs. that makes "all the difference" to ILIs. I observe SEEs (or um, myself? If I'm SEE) ... and well, they are always cheery, bubbly and LIVELY. That IS the perfect word to describe them. It's more like in their own world sort of emotion. dominants... well... they want to influence the moods of others. Maybe it's just influencing that bothers the ILIs?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    I really doubt it. Have you ever been to a party with group activities in which many people willingly joined in with the merriment? They hardly seem like an unusual phenomenon.
    Wait what? lol.

    Oh I meant the norm for INTps.

    But I dunno there are many other types (maybe all other types in fact) that wouldn't join in with the merriment for whatever reason. Like if I was in a bad mood then no I wouldn't join in with the merriment either.

    This whole thing just came about because Niffweed mentioned in his vid that certain emotional expressions really make him (and other ILIs) cringe and I wanted to understand that better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    It's funny to me how the question asked in the first post is still not adequately answered (or at least not imo) Only blauritson actually made a truly detailed attempt.

    I would really like to know what exactly it is about vs. that makes "all the difference" to ILIs. I observe SEEs (or um, myself? If I'm SEE) ... and well, they are always cheery, bubbly and LIVELY. That IS the perfect word to describe them. It's more like in their own world sort of emotion. dominants... well... they want to influence the moods of others. Maybe it's just influencing that bothers the ILIs?
    Is that really an accurate portrayal of Fe-dominants or SEEs though? My original (albeit roundabout) point with the thread is that NO ONE wants insincere emotional displays, which is what seemed to be implied with talk of Fe.

    Fe-PoLRs may have difficulties interpreting and deciphering Fe signals that are being sent. So they may misinterpret Fe signals as being signs of Fi. That is not to say that the Fe signs are somehow insincere (though they of course can be), but that they are misconstrued as something they are not, which can be emotionally damaging to those with Fe-PoLRs when they are expecting something else (Fi). So those with valued-Fi may see Fe as something that is reserved for the few with whom strong relational bonds have been formed (Fi). But in Fe-valuing contexts, the Fi emotional bonds are formed gradually following from Fe and are seen as being in a constant state of dynamic flux and change. Often in Fe-valuing quadras, Ti-dominants have little ability to gauge the extent of Fi-bonds, so they rely upon outward signs of Fe to "close the gap of understanding" and establish where they stand in relation to a person at a given moment, while the Fi-bond may be taken for granted or go unnoticed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    It's funny to me how the question asked in the first post is still not adequately answered (or at least not imo) Only blauritson actually made a truly detailed attempt.

    I would really like to know what exactly it is about vs. that makes "all the difference" to ILIs. I observe SEEs (or um, myself? If I'm SEE) ... and well, they are always cheery, bubbly and LIVELY. That IS the perfect word to describe them. It's more like in their own world sort of emotion. dominants... well... they want to influence the moods of others. Maybe it's just influencing that bothers the ILIs?
    it's not a simple question to answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    This whole thing just came about because Niffweed mentioned in his vid that certain emotional expressions really make him (and other ILIs) cringe and I wanted to understand that better.
    give me some more time to mull it over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Oh, my bad.



    I think that, among other things, Fe-PoLR types may be consistently bored (or in some cases irritated) by people trying to get them involved in the merriment.



    In the case illustrated in niffweed's video, I think it's that the abundant positivity clashes with the more pessimistic world view typical of ILIs.
    Right. With ILIs it might be that it's much more consistent and frequent and with other types it might be more of an exception/rarity for them to not want to join the merriemnt.

    I dunno. Is that it though? Are all ILIs really pessimistic though?...Isn't it more of just an awareness of probable negative outcomes instead of actual pessimism?

    Need more data...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Fe-PoLRs may have difficulties interpreting and deciphering Fe signals that are being sent. So they may misinterpret Fe signals as being signs of Fi. That is not to say that the Fe signs are somehow insincere (though they of course can be), but that they are misconstrued as something they are not, which can be emotionally damaging to those with Fe-PoLRs when they are expecting something else (Fi). So those with valued-Fi may see Fe as something that is reserved for the few with whom strong relational bonds have been formed (Fi). But in Fe-valuing contexts, the Fi emotional bonds are formed gradually following from Fe and are seen as being in a constant state of dynamic flux and change. Often in Fe-valuing quadras, Ti-dominants have little ability to gauge the extent of Fi-bonds, so they rely upon outward signs of Fe to "close the gap of understanding" and establish where they stand in relation to a person at a given moment, while the Fi-bond may be taken for granted or go unnoticed.
    Obviously I can't really judge what you've written for Ti-ego types, but I definitely agree with what you said about Fe-PoLR types. Even with knowledge of Socionics, if someone's polite or friendly towards me, I always (by default) interpret that as a sign that they have good intentions towards me and that they're essentially starting to form a bond with me, such as that of friendship for example. I'm very easily charmed for this reason. Which can be extremely detrimental if someone has negative intentions towards me but masks it with friendliness or whatever...I dunno, I get the feeling I'm not really describing anything exclusive to Fe-PoLR here, but what I'm trying to get at is that I find it very difficult to.. "see through the ruse" as it were. I dunno, I think I've veered away from Fe-PoLR specific now and am just describing general social naïveté here, which obviously isn't completely type-related. I dunno. I definitely agree with what you said though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    I dunno. Is that it though? Are all ILIs really pessimistic though?...Isn't it more of just an awareness of probable negative outcomes instead of actual pessimism?
    I think in my case at least, I tend to have a more pessimistic outlook by default, but I'm in no way restricted to that. I think it's just that I can easily look at something in several ways and, perhaps because of negativism (not sure how much faith I put in that dichotomy personally), it just defaults to focusing on the negatives, so to speak. A good example I can think of is if someone I care about is worrying over some sort of issue, perhaps something they did for example, I can easily flip it over to show them the bright side, provided I deem it appropriate. I dunno, I'm not confident when I write this stuff purely because I'm not confident that it's all type-related, I keep thinking of other possible psychological reasons why I might do this. I'll have to think on this more. Which I blatantly won't because I'll forget all about this post as soon as I hit submit and close the tab since I'm so easily distracted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    Right. With ILIs it might be that it's much more consistent and frequent and with other types it might be more of an exception/rarity for them to not want to join the merriemnt.

    I dunno. Is that it though? Are all ILIs really pessimistic though?...Isn't it more of just an awareness of probable negative outcomes instead of actual pessimism?

    Need more data...
    i think it's exactly as i explained: ILIs are pessimistic because they dislike effecting displays of positive emotions, not vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i think it's exactly as i explained: ILIs are pessimistic because they dislike effecting displays of positive emotions, not vice versa.
    wait what?
    OH.
    Ok so you're saying that ILIs are pessimistic because they don't want to create displays of positive emotion?

    Are you simplifying? I thought it was that ILIs were PRONE to pessimism not that all ILIs ARE pessimistic.
    Last edited by theMime.; 04-29-2008 at 01:21 AM.

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