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Thread: Off-the-wall ISTj looking to expell me from school

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    No offense meant, but some of you guys are being awful hard on tcaud...

    Remember that this just happened to him, and that it takes usually awhile to gain crystal clear perspective re: what's happened in one's life--for most of us, including me and probably most of you too...

    He's an intelligent guy who will figure it out in one way or another... There is no need to try to force him to 'take a look in the mirror' or put him on the defensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    You'd better offer a reason to expect it then. And, you'd have better already made every effort to make the experience as easy as possible -- that is, if it's difficult at all, then it had better be because no one could think of a way to make it easier. INTjs will accept nothing less. We -- but such should only be demanded when there is no other way. Anything less is utter arrogance. (Machintruc calls ISTjs narrowminded for a reason, you know!)
    What were you saying about arrogance?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I know that not all ISTjs really prize unnecessary effort -- not all ISTjs are alike.

    It's been said before: INTj respect is earned, never acquiesced. The burden for my respect is respect for my logical sensibility.
    Your response is a good example of why you're in this predicament.

    You're so intent on justifying your stance that you lose all focus on a practical solution to your problems and when offered one, the same situation arises again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    It's been said before: INTj respect is earned, never acquiesced. The burden for my respect is respect for my logical sensibility.
    Yeah, apparently much more so than whether what you say has any reality, or whether it is effective or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    Your response is a good example of why you're in this predicament.

    You're so intent on justifying your stance that you lose all focus on a practical solution to your problems and when offered one, the same situation arises again.
    Mhm

    Maybe he should spend less time trying to justify your logical sensibility and just focus on what you need to do to move forward.


    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    No offense meant, but some of you guys are being awful hard on tcaud...

    Remember that this just happened to him, and that it takes usually awhile to gain crystal clear perspective re: what's happened in one's life--for most of us, including me and probably most of you too...

    He's an intelligent guy who will figure it out in one way or another... There is no need to try to force him to 'take a look in the mirror' or put him on the defensive.
    You bring balance to the force. That is why the world needs people like you



    What I needed to see, when I was in Tcau's situation (which I was) was a little of both. I needed someone to be stubbornly an ass to me and make sure I saw what I did wrong, AND understanding as well. So both reveal the way to blossoming.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Yeah, apparently much more so than whether what you say has any reality, or whether it is effective or not.



    Mhm

    Maybe he should spend less time trying to justify your logical sensibility and just focus on what you need to do to move forward.



    You bring balance to the force. That is why the world needs people like you



    What I needed to see, when I was in Tcau's situation (which I was) was a little of both. I needed someone to be stubbornly an ass to me and make sure I saw what I did wrong, AND understanding as well. So both reveal the way to blossoming.
    UDP, you have become one ARROGANT son-of-a-bitch. (no offense to your mother)

    Now you're saying I'm out of touch with reality. At least some people here disagree with you. Tell us, UDP. Tell us more about "reality".

    I can already tell you're projecting your hero-complex against me. Really smart dude. Lemme tell ya, "to know true light, you must first know darkness". (that's a quote from Sword of Mana, FTW)

    Lemme tell ya, the light shining inside the darkness is a lot more illuminating that the light outside of it. Just ask Cecil Harvey. ;-)

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    Ah, cheer up. Let's write a three-word story about pencils in a supermarket.

    Let's see... One



    LII-Ne

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    12 pencils $1.29

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    One 12 pencils $1.29... um... I can't think of any way to make that grammatically correct.

    So I'll just add:

    um... I can't



    LII-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    UDP, you have become one ARROGANT son-of-a-bitch. (no offense to your mother)
    I'm only sorry I deceived you for so long. I do not mean to show my true colours too abruptly so as to warrant much alarm. I happen to like being called an arrogant SOB so I'm putting that in my sig lol

    Now you're saying I'm out of touch with reality. At least some people here disagree with you. Tell us, UDP. Tell us more about "reality".

    I can already tell you're projecting your hero-complex against me. Really smart dude. Lemme tell ya, "to know true light, you must first know darkness". (that's a quote from Sword of Mana, FTW)

    Lemme tell ya, the light shining inside the darkness is a lot more illuminating that the light outside of it. Just ask Cecil Harvey. ;-)
    I'm out of touch with those quotes. But I will take your word on them being of a high caliber in terms of true wisdom.

    As far as reality, apparently you're suspended. That's the bottom line, isn't it? Good luck with everything. As it was said, you're smart. You'll find your way.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

  9. #49
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    Tcaud, whats your next move? (Also: I take it being suspended means you'll go back eventually-like some sort of temporary punishment, or does being suspended in this instance mean you are refused entry until someone decides *if* it is to be moved to the permanent status of expulsion?)

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    Witness such gems as "the Lusitania sinking DID NOT contribute to U.S. suspicions of hostile intent by Germany" and "Darwin's theory of Natural Selection DOES NOT imply survival of the fittest". To INTjs... this stuff is trivial. That's the point though: I'm being discriminated against on basis of both my creativity -- which the instructor fears -- and my beliefs.
    Hmmmm ... I would agree that those questions are very trivial.

  11. #51
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    Most of the stuff I learned at school and uni seemed trivial to me. I like learning stuff, but I hate education. More often than not it's boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Most of the stuff I learned at school and uni seemed trivial to me. I like learning stuff, but I hate education. More often than not it's boring.
    Yes but you see they think they have to educate us INTjs in all of these other ways. I'm not sure if this is hypocritical or not, because I'm sure non-INTjs look at -Ti/-Te roots of scientific analysis as something kind of magical or even arbitrary....

    As for what happens next, my first priority is wrapping up the rest of my classes. I've got three papers to finish by the end of the week. I've got a disciplinary board hearing (a kind of jury trial) on Saturday, during which well, what more can I do but state my case? I'm not the type to take the offense, but it's my instinct to retaliate if treated unfairly. (does calling someone arrogant amount to aggressive retaliation?) The real problem lies with the institution, which admittedly is one of the more conservative public institutes in the country. On the other hand, just the blemish of being suspended on a charge carries with it problems. I've been thinking that given my superb understanding of U.S. History, I can just CLEP my way through that class and avoid having to retake it. In the meantime though, I need to get that class dropped somehow or another. I've got an 'A' in World History, so that's definitely in my favor.

    I sincerely hope that the instructor in question talks as much at the hearing as possible. Every single word she says is a vote in my favor.

    I am disadvantaged in that I don't have the resources to hire a lawyer who could seriously tear her up, though.

    In the end, the real loser is the idea of institutional equity in academia. If I get suspended for this, then it's pretty well proven that there is a kind of selection process going on to "vet" up-and-coming leaders in the sciences. This will do harm to the idea that anyone with the will to learn can accomplish their dreams in the eyes of many progressives.

    I wonder if Ohio progressives should all just pack up and head back to Antioch.

    For the record, I have decided on trying out a tactic of activating the transcendent function to deliberate and then to deactivate it when actually phrasing the assertion. Using the transcendent function heightens your instincts and makes you seem more... how to say, jerky. (if you've ever took on a stance where you were just totally determined and ready to respond to anything that came at you, that's the transcendent function at work: it mobilizes your entire subconscious against whatever threatens you. To put it in perspective, without the transcendent function I'm a klutz; with it, I'm much more focused and can usually catch anything thrown at me without even thinking about it, taking up just the right position to intercept it). This seems to me disingenuous, nor do I think it'll go unrecognized for long, but we'll see what happens....
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 04-29-2008 at 02:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    it's the way you talk tcaud... you're too political and theoretical to not be seen as a threat by normal God fearing Uhhhmericans. try to just smile and nod more. not every interaction demands the exposure of raw truth.
    Yah I think it's something along these lines too, academia these days is a stupid institutionalized circle jerk, the wisdom of the elders, so to speak, is fading as they die off, leaving the Baby Boomers in control of everything. Baby boomers are basically the most socially irresponsible, selfish, greedy, lazy generation this earth has ever seen. If the economy crashes and all their savings disappear it will be fucking hilarious.
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    gay sex
    Last edited by istpunk; 07-17-2008 at 08:39 AM.

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    @tcaudilllg:

    Once my father, a LII like you, gave me a book of Lin Yutang. I don't remember the title of the book, but it was a brilliant exposition of humility. He said, among other things, that as impressive as intelligence may be, it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. He preferred a reasonable person over a rational one.

    I've read a lot of your posts and I have no doubt that you're quite intelligent. But maybe you're overestimating your own intelligence and assuming that you can judge everything and everyone and always be right about it. From time to time think that you might be wrong, no matter if you understand you error or not. And that the mistakes we don't understand are the ones which affect us the most.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Yes but you see they think they have to educate us INTjs in all of these other ways. I'm not sure if this is hypocritical or not, because I'm sure non-INTjs look at -Ti/-Te roots of scientific analysis as something kind of magical or even arbitrary....

    As for what happens next, my first priority is wrapping up the rest of my classes. I've got three papers to finish by the end of the week. I've got a disciplinary board hearing (a kind of jury trial) on Saturday, during which well, what more can I do but state my case? I'm not the type to take the offense, but it's my instinct to retaliate if treated unfairly. (does calling someone arrogant amount to aggressive retaliation?) The real problem lies with the institution, which admittedly is one of the more conservative public institutes in the country. On the other hand, just the blemish of being suspended on a charge carries with it problems. I've been thinking that given my superb understanding of U.S. History, I can just CLEP my way through that class and avoid having to retake it. In the meantime though, I need to get that class dropped somehow or another. I've got an 'A' in World History, so that's definitely in my favor.

    I sincerely hope that the instructor in question talks as much at the hearing as possible. Every single word she says is a vote in my favor.

    I am disadvantaged in that I don't have the resources to hire a lawyer who could seriously tear her up, though.

    In the end, the real loser is the idea of institutional equity in academia. If I get suspended for this, then it's pretty well proven that there is a kind of selection process going on to "vet" up-and-coming leaders in the sciences. This will do harm to the idea that anyone with the will to learn can accomplish their dreams in the eyes of many progressives.

    I wonder if Ohio progressives should all just pack up and head back to Antioch.

    For the record, I have decided on trying out a tactic of activating the transcendent function to deliberate and then to deactivate it when actually phrasing the assertion. Using the transcendent function heightens your instincts and makes you seem more... how to say, jerky. (if you've ever took on a stance where you were just totally determined and ready to respond to anything that came at you, that's the transcendent function at work: it mobilizes your entire subconscious against whatever threatens you. To put it in perspective, without the transcendent function I'm a klutz; with it, I'm much more focused and can usually catch anything thrown at me without even thinking about it, taking up just the right position to intercept it). This seems to me disingenuous, nor do I think it'll go unrecognized for long, but we'll see what happens....
    I thought about various things I could say, but bottom line is your clever guy..if it don't work out..as one door closes another door opens (things such as the occasionial academia never stopped Einstein, eg.) hey, if you want my indepth advice (if you think it may be of benefit) drop me a pm
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    @tcaudilllg:

    Once my father, a LII like you, gave me a book of Lin Yutang. I don't remember the title of the book, but it was a brilliant exposition of humility. He said, among other things, that as impressive as intelligence may be, it doesn't necessarily make you a better person. He preferred a reasonable person over a rational one.

    I've read a lot of your posts and I have no doubt that you're quite intelligent. But maybe you're overestimating your own intelligence and assuming that you can judge everything and everyone and always be right about it. From time to time think that you might be wrong, no matter if you understand you error or not. And that the mistakes we don't understand are the ones which affect us the most.
    This sounds reasonable. Perhaps worth a read? (have you read it already?)

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    Any reason proposed by mikemex is probably well beyond my comprehension.

    I've come to perceive that whatever happens Saturday, I have may have a much larger problem to deal with besides. One of the reasons I tried to stand up to this professor is because this would have been the third class in a row that I'd failed or just barely passed (with a D-) due to the demands of the professors that I think like them. ("critical thinking", as I discussed in another thread). These classes have brought down my GPA to something like a C-; it would probably be a B- otherwise. Adding an F to what looks to be a something around a C+ average this semester will probably lower it to a D.... That threatens my financial aid. I may or may not have failed had I not confronted her (perhaps she would have had "mercy" as the other two did and given me a D-), but again that's hardly better.

    If anything, these grades prevent me from competing seriously for scholarships. But, I guess that's what the system is tailor-made to do, to make things as tough on people with controversial ideas as possible.

    Or maybe... actually wait, I think I get it now. The system expects that I should "ask around" about professors before taking their classes? Seems a little biased towards extroverts.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 04-30-2008 at 03:25 AM.

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    Want it simple? Stop thinking like a robot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Want it simple? Stop thinking like a robot.
    Please, stop thinking altogether.

    To those of you who still disagree with me about how I acted, considering the following scenario should help you walk a mile in my shoes, so to speak. Imagine signing up for an important class, only to realize that Phaedrus is the instructor. It is too late to drop the class, and you must now write a paper for him about the differences between MBTI and socionics.

    Need I say more?
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 04-30-2008 at 04:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Please, stop thinking altogether.

    To those of you who still disagree with me about how I acted, considering the following scenario should help you walk a mile in my shoes, so to speak. Imagine signing up for an important class, only to realize that Phaedrus is the instructor. It is too late to drop the class, and you must now write a paper for him about the differences between MBTI and socionics.

    Need I say more?
    Tcaudillg, you need to learn the art of sacrasm and irony. Keep it very subtle though. In this way, it becomes easy to give the instructor what they want. Be sure to use 'feigned stupidity' and say it with a smile too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_(military)
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

  21. #61
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    Well, whatevers been the cause of it, I hope you get it fixed, or something else in it's place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Please, stop thinking altogether.

    To those of you who still disagree with me about how I acted, considering the following scenario should help you walk a mile in my shoes, so to speak. Imagine signing up for an important class, only to realize that Phaedrus is the instructor. It is too late to drop the class, and you must now write a paper for him about the differences between MBTI and socionics.

    Need I say more?
    Every class is about finding out how to give the teacher what they want. It doesn't matter who the teacher is.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Any reason proposed by mikemex is probably well beyond my comprehension.

    I've come to perceive that whatever happens Saturday, I have may have a much larger problem to deal with besides. One of the reasons I tried to stand up to this professor is because this would have been the third class in a row that I'd failed or just barely passed (with a D-) due to the demands of the professors that I think like them. ("critical thinking", as I discussed in another thread). These classes have brought down my GPA to something like a C-; it would probably be a B- otherwise. Adding an F to what looks to be a something around a C+ average this semester will probably lower it to a D.... That threatens my financial aid. I may or may not have failed had I not confronted her (perhaps she would have had "mercy" as the other two did and given me a D-), but again that's hardly better.

    If anything, these grades prevent me from competing seriously for scholarships. But, I guess that's what the system is tailor-made to do, to make things as tough on people with controversial ideas as possible.

    Or maybe... actually wait, I think I get it now. The system expects that I should "ask around" about professors before taking their classes? Seems a little biased towards extroverts.
    As usual, I'm hesitant to respond to you because of our history, but I really do think there are some things you need to hear for your own good. How you can have this history and blame the institutions instead of yourself if beyond me. Perhaps it's because you're intelligent and think, "No way can I be failing! It must be the teachers!" but I mean, come on... the only constant here is an arguementative student who refuses to accept the rules of how things work in the world. Unless you want to waste that intelligence of yours being a bitter fuck working in wal-mart for the rest of your life (or something worse) it's time to learn how to play the game. Nobody says that you have to live the game, just learn it enough to stop failing classes over personality clashes. I'd much rather provide sympathy here, but I truly think it's brutal honesty you need. sorry.

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    2nd transcendent function?

    Sorry, I looked it up since you mentioned it, and it struck me as related to your current situation. Are you trying to deliberately control the development of your 2nd transcendental function to gain an advantage? Or were you referring to the first, or perhaps something else entirely?



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    Here's what I would do:

    Just quit and just take some time off life for awhile. Part of you wants to be expelled and to fight and be angry with the world. For some reason you are clearly self-sabotaging yourself here. Deep down you want to see what happens if you 'didn't have to go at all.'

    You remind me of myself so much kinda, though you really have no choice here but to let the bitch have her way.

    And hey if you do end up working at Wal-Mart I wouldn't mind. Some of the Wal-mart guys there can be surprisingly hot, just make sure you try to not smell too white trash.

    I really think people are giving you bad advice. I am quite afraid you actually *are* going to blow up and actually hurt yourself or others here. Beat up a pillow, watch some good porn, throw shit around to get your anger out. This is obviously a pattern with you here.

    You need to unleash your rage. You don't need advice - even what I just said right there, ignore that. All you were doing was really expressing yourself and seeing if anybody could relate, and people gave you advice on the thread. I think they were being idiots there, but it's just easy to do to somebody in a vulnerable emotional position.

    Quite simply man, college is pretty easy even if you're not all that smart. If you are getting Cs you just don't want it badly enough that's all it is. It's just not important to you, and you need to be doing something that is important to you- it's a basic human need that you're not getting. I just think you need to find somebody that can value you more than anything else. It sounds like you don't have many real life friends though, not to feel sorry or condescend to you or anything.

    I know nobody's goal in life is to get As on tests (and if it is, they are really pathetic) sooo what do you really want at the end of the tunnel? Honestly? I think you don't want to tell other people because it's far from socially acceptable- but you still need to do it if it's going to make you happy. Social status is stupid and not worth the trouble for me.

    Just keep on staying connected with people but there's nothing wrong with taking a hiatus. If you are anything like me, you need somebody to kinda come right there and rescue you for a bit, you need a breather so you can get back on the horse and just let all this go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    As usual, I'm hesitant to respond to you because of our history, but I really do think there are some things you need to hear for your own good. How you can have this history and blame the institutions instead of yourself if beyond me. Perhaps it's because you're intelligent and think, "No way can I be failing! It must be the teachers!" but I mean, come on... the only constant here is an arguementative student who refuses to accept the rules of how things work in the world. Unless you want to waste that intelligence of yours being a bitter fuck working in wal-mart for the rest of your life (or something worse) it's time to learn how to play the game. Nobody says that you have to live the game, just learn it enough to stop failing classes over personality clashes. I'd much rather provide sympathy here, but I truly think it's brutal honesty you need. sorry.
    Tcaud, I think this sounds like very good advice.
    I had a class my first semester of college where I KNEW I should have an A - as in, I did every bit of work, and saw all my grades, and my average was well above 90. But do you know what final grade my prof submitted?
    D.
    Unfortunately, he kept all the copies of my homework, labs and tests, so I had nothing with which to prove my case. I spoke to every person in the administration I could get to, and could get nowhere. I have some suspicions about why the prof did what he did, but when I finally went to him and plead my case, he was extremely evasive and finally sent me away with the infuriatingly unsatisfying explanation that every single other member of my class had failed, so he couldn't give me too much better a grade.
    This is the ONLY example of curving grades DOWN I have ever heard.
    The main reason I got blocked from challenging the grade is because my prof also happened to be the head of the department, and it took the approval of the head of the department to get a hearing. Too bad for me.
    I bitched and whined to many of my fellow students, and pretty much got in response, "Yeah, well, welcome to college."
    I withdrew at the end of the semester (which was my first). Luckily, I had some pretty marketable skills, so I just lived in the working world and learned what life handed me as well as what I taught myself (libraries and the world wide internet).
    I have since tried to go back to college twice, and each time, even though I've aced all my classes, I get thoroughly discouraged by all the bullshit. After this third time, I think I'm not going back again.
    You DON'T need a college degree to get ahead in life. If you need a degree to go into a field for which you feel a passion, then you need to temper that passion with the awareness that you DO need to play the game to get the degree.
    Please notice that I'm not telling you that you're wrong in your current situation.
    But I am telling you that in your current situation, being righteous is shooting you in the foot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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