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Thread: Off-the-wall ISTj looking to expell me from school

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    Default Off-the-wall ISTj looking to expell me from school

    I got a bad grade on a test (thanks to the total Ne incompetence of my instructor), and after saying a few unkind words to her face ("I can't believe you failed me on this. I think I'm going to drop the class after this (a feasible option because only two exams are graded in the class, and a failing grade in one). Idiot.") she has decided to recommend my suspension from Miami University. I was quite angry about the grade -- considerable levels of bias were leveled in the critique of my test. Beyond that, this is HISTORY for crying out loud: INTjs DO NOT fail history as surely as Ni and Te are lodged in their id and directing toward every historically relevant bit of data out there.

    Witness such gems as "the Lusitania sinking DID NOT contribute to U.S. suspicions of hostile intent by Germany" and "Darwin's theory of Natural Selection DOES NOT imply survival of the fittest". To INTjs... this stuff is trivial. That's the point though: I'm being discriminated against on basis of both my creativity -- which the instructor fears -- and my beliefs.

    What's really going on, is that I in my naive, trusting way, approached her about the possibility of Saddam Hussein having had strong progressive instincts, something that most of you here know I've researched carefully and believe has considerable merit. She didn't like this at all and apparently thinks I've got to be stopped.... It may have been over the top to insult her, but hey, we're all adults... aren't we?

    Stature? Well the first thing she can do is get off her high horse. I'm taking this very seriously though: if I get expelled from Miami, that'll go on my record and it may prove difficult to re-enroll anywhere. And, a suspension effectively merits expulsion because I've already made a loan for $2250 that is due six months after I "leave" college. Which means, I can't just back down. Even if I am suspended/expelled, I've got to do something to change their minds somehow.... As you all know, I'm all too politically resourceful.... Set +Ti behind +Te and let 'er rip! The unknown quality, which I'm actually more worried about, is the age of the board members, because if they're "over the hill", so to speak, Jung says they have a completely different thinking style that is all too accepting of proposed punishment for "upstart youngsters"....

    Anyway, what to do about ISTj bitch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Anyway, what to do about ISTj bitch?
    Suck it up.
    LSI

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    maybe try apologising for insulting her
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Make an official complaint that you'd like the test reviewed by another teacher. make it extremely polite and avoid any contact with that ISTj teacher. If you do have contact with her, be very calm and dry and polite, but not dismissive. Just very official. Also be willing to admit that you lost your temper and told her things which are unappropriate to say to a teacher. Make sure that higher powers know that it's a simple personality clash between two individuals and not a good reason to end a student's studies in the university.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    It may have been over the top to insult her, but hey, we're all adults... aren't we?

    expulsion because I've already made a loan for $2250 that is due six months after I "leave" college. Which means, I can't just back down.
    Funny post.

    Your student loans can be post-poned for ages. All you have to do is provide proof of absence of income and a signature, and you get 6 additional months. Rinse, repeat.

    Meh. You can get into a university somewhere. Give it a bit of time and one of em will give you another chance, or just go to Tech school. And $2250 can be paid back very quickly.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I got a bad grade on a test (thanks to the total Ne incompetence of my instructor), and after saying a few unkind words to her face ("I can't believe you failed me on this. I think I'm going to drop the class after this (a feasible option because only two exams are graded in the class, and a failing grade in one). Idiot.")
    ...
    Anyway, what to do about ISTj bitch?
    If you know so much about socionics I find it hard that you are so easy to blame others functions for your problems. We've seen you go off the handle here before. Let me ask you a question, does it really make you feel better to blame this problem on the instructor's perceived polr? I'd be wary of using that as a major cop out. I'm sure you are mature enough to get that, but based on the nature of your post, looks like you were asking for someone to say it to you.


    The last sentence should be, what should I do about my inability to deal with this situation (which I created) in the best way, and prevent this from happening in the future.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Apologise to her. Basically she's doing a job and she doesn't need you insulting her, regardless of her type.

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    Yeah I kind of agree with the people who are saying to apologize. Even if you don't feel sorry. You have to just back down and let her be who she needs to be so that she doesn't expel you. just my humble opinion. I've had to learn when to let go of my need to be right. It's just not worth it sometimes. But only you can decide if this is one of those times.
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    ...
    Last edited by Suomea; 09-27-2008 at 11:32 PM.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    If you know so much about socionics I find it hard that you are so easy to blame others functions for your problems. We've seen you go off the handle here before. Let me ask you a question, does it really make you feel better to blame this problem on the instructor's perceived polr? I'd be wary of using that as a major cop out. I'm sure you are mature enough to get that, but based on the nature of your post, looks like you were asking for someone to say it to you.


    The last sentence should be, what should I do about my inability to deal with this situation (which I created) in the best way, and prevent this from happening in the future.
    Oh, scared of a little +Ne bearing down against -Ne, are we? That settles it: you're ISTj.

    I will never yield to fear. Ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Oh, scared of a little +Ne bearing down against -Ne, are we? That settles it: you're ISTj.

    I will never yield to fear. Ever.
    If he was istj (and you are intj) you would be comparative and there would be no real problem there.

    Anyway..

    Dude, no need not to yield to fear, but you know there is a point in UDP there..for instance..remember how you spoke to Jessica when she was just doing her job. It seems like you've possibly did pretty much the same thing with your teacher.

    Maybe your teacher is wrong. Thing is you know your not gonna get anywhere by speaking like you do, or at least you should/could have realised you won't - in this particular situation. Aren't you clever enough to not keep making same mistake? Hey we all say things then realise we shouldn't, then it's time to (usually) apologise. Bottom line here though-you run the risk of getting kicked out of college over something you could have handled better.

    I don't think your not giving in to fear..I think you are just being childish. However dude, way to look at it (and i'm trying to help) is to say you are not going to give in to your fear of admitting you might have made a mistake.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 04-25-2008 at 06:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Oh, scared of a little +Ne bearing down against -Ne, are we? That settles it: you're ISTj.

    I will never yield to fear. Ever.
    Then I guess you'll be the toughest dude working at Starbucks.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    Then I guess you'll be the toughest dude working at Starbucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I got a bad grade on a test (thanks to the total Ne incompetence of my instructor), and after saying a few unkind words to her face ("I can't believe you failed me on this. I think I'm going to drop the class after this (a feasible option because only two exams are graded in the class, and a failing grade in one). Idiot.") she has decided to recommend my suspension from Miami University. I was quite angry about the grade -- considerable levels of bias were leveled in the critique of my test.

    It may have been over the top to insult her, but hey, we're all adults... aren't we?

    Stature? Well the first thing she can do is get off her high horse. I'm taking this very seriously though: if I get expelled from Miami, that'll go on my record and it may prove difficult to re-enroll anywhere. And, a suspension effectively merits expulsion because I've already made a loan for $2250 that is due six months after I "leave" college. Which means, I can't just back down. Even if I am suspended/expelled, I've got to do something to change their minds somehow....

    Anyway, what to do about ISTj bitch?
    I transferred from my first college for a very similar reason. It was a tiny college, (Bard College, if anyone wants to know or gives a damn,) and this administrator, also an ISTj, developed a thorough disliking of me and proposed my expulsion... I thought the same as you, i.e "hey, we're all adults." Fact of the matter is, adults can sometimes behave like idiotic brats, especially when angry...

    Frankly, a lot of humanities professors, in my experience, aren't very mature... Oftentimes while pursuing their phDs, they live in academic bubbles--sometimes well into their thirties, while most other ppl are developing otherwise... After they become employed, they sometimes have a very limited and strange relationship w/the non-university world... This has been my experience anyway, as a post-grad in the humanities.

    What it sounds like, in your case, is you've insulted this prof's competence--in my experience, that makes them especially vindictive... She may have deserved it, and that's maybe why it stung her so badly, (which it clearly did.) If your goal is to prevent expulsion, which I imagine it is, you should plan your moves based on that goal. E.g., if you believe that an apology will solve the situation and prevent you from being expelled, do it... If dropping the course will solve it, do it. If not, I believe that it would be best, if possible, to bring this up in an administrative capacity before she does, so that she's on the defensive from the start... After this, just act very reasonably, civally--especially during any administrative meetings--essentially take the high road... Her behavior will suffer by comparison and I doubt you'll be expelled.

    In my case, I transferred to Northwestern U, where I was treated like an actual person, to my delight... Miami U (of Ohio, right?) is public--it's often much more difficult to be expelled from a public institution than a private institution... You've got that going for you.

    Good luck dude, seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Oh, scared of a little +Ne bearing down against -Ne, are we? That settles it: you're ISTj.

    I will never yield to fear. Ever.
    And so, we see how Robespierre "led" a totally unsuccessful "revolution".



    Just because I don't say "there there" and tell you how great you are doesn't mean I'm your enemy, nor say anything about your type.
    Last edited by UDP; 04-25-2008 at 11:53 PM.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Oh, scared of a little +Ne bearing down against -Ne, are we? That settles it: you're ISTj.

    I will never yield to fear. Ever.
    Regardless of whether there is fear or not, there are still consequences. Reality is not emotional like you and I. If I were you, I would first put this into perspective and then deal with it more logically.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Look to your own PoLR. It isn't fair for you to mistreat her any more than it was for her to mistreat your . So consider where your common ground is () and work from there. That professor isn't in charge of the university... work within the system.



    LII-Ne

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    I had a hearing today, in which I was summarily suspended. I had previously had a dispute with a smart-alec financial aid advisor, which was taken into account also.... I had deliberately toned down my approach since then (the dispute was resolved), and had thought I was safe in my chosen approach (no gestures this time); far be it from me to suspect that universities gave their teachers nigh dictatorial power over their teaching and assessment. The instructor, who had uncanny aptitude for remembering the sequence of events as they happened... (nevermind, I think she wrote them down after I left) said about as much about my "unkempt" physical appearance (I was sporting a light beard and long, curly hair at the time) and my habit of coming in late to class (but attending!) as she did about the encounter. Clearly she wanted to portray me in as negative a light as possible; particularly, she tried to paint me as "weird" and "disturbing".

    What's interesting about the judgement, is that I was cited on a very vague charge: other physical or mental harm.

    What is that? A clause after the handbook entry suggests that it is a means by which the university can impunge people who have been accused of sexual assault/molestation but were later cleared of the charges: that's right, the institution is so extreme that it does not even respect the findings of its own investigative processes as a basis for justice! But more to the point, this charge is one of those "the administration looks out for its own/we don't know how to really deal with this so we're going to just suspend you and be done with it rather it is just or not" kinds of procedual ambiguity. This ambiguity is intolerable and I demand justice.

    Good news everyone! Extremist practice in academia is something supersocion theory allows us to directly comprehend and confront. I don't figure I've anything to lose by asking difficult questions at the hearing... I'll absolutely question the wisdom of allowing fringe instructors to insult by the tip of their grading pen those beacons of tomorrow they disagree with, something that can be demonstrated as artificially lowering grade averages for those students who are unlucky enough to be stuck having them. By any degree of logic, the personal opinion of an instructor of a student should NEVER be a factor of their grade: demonstrated understanding of knowledge should itself be the exclusive criterion. With an accurate model of the dynamic underlying extremism in hand (function oppression), we can finally argue for rules mandating that teachers who have a history of conflict with their students only grade their students by standardized testing. Measures should be implemented to make the reporting of conflict-prone teachers as stress-free as possible. Grades will rise and university communities will become more wholesome. The extremists will think it unfair, but they hate themselves anyway so why lose sleep over it? Sucks to be them, but we didn't write the genome and it would suck a lot more for the majority to leave them be!

    People of all political stripes -- conservative, progressive, liberal, communitarian, traditionalists (the paleo-political types as defined in political science), . Finally the individualist revolutionary is free from the fanatical zealotry of the traditionalist stalwart; the liberal is free from the close-mindedness of the conservative fringe; the conservative is free to attest to their beliefs in the face of the liberal radical; and the traditionist who upholds time tested standards of activity is free to prove their academic metal in the face of the rebel-without-a-cause, whatever the campus and whatever the institution. These concerns may not be of particular concern to a majority of college students, many of which devote themselves to an unprofessional, arguably time-wasting enterprise of getting inside their professor's heads; but to a small minority of particularly outspoken -- and moreover, creative -- individuals, they are imperative; for it is these same creative people who feel they are responsible for seeing to it that given the opportunity, their fellows need not embark on useless endevor.

    Of late top employers have said they look more carefully at 'B' students who took time out from their studies to hone their insight than they do 'A' students who gave every last energy to meet their educational institution's highest standards, whatever that meant. (and I caution, the meaning of such is again, getting inside the professors' heads). The question arises, why aren't the 'B' students 'A' students also? The answer lies with the extremists and their arbitrary tyranny. Cast down the extremists, and America's GPAs will rise.

    The linchpin to the argument that extremists can be depended on to oppress certain types (the confli. In fact, much of the argument has its root in extremism: ESFp-INTj relations, for example, can be quite tame if there is mutual respect and consideration between the partners. (and that is indeed possible) However, when either of the partners is an extremist the relation invariably earns its "conflict" name.

    ISTj-INTj relations are comparative, sure... but there is more to these relations than meets the eye. INTj and ISTj share functions of shadow archetype, which lends itself to projections of the worst nature. -Ti always feels threatened by +Ti just as +Ti is threatened by -Ti. In as much as INTj and ISTj would seek to defend their suggestive functions, -Ti is on guard against +Fi on behalf of -Fe, even as +Ti disdains -Fe for +Fi. Again, when there is mutual respect between the two these hostilities can be mitigated, but when either side feels the victory of its antithesis in imminent, the relationship will regress into negative projection as the ego uses whatever it feels it has at its disposal to fight off the aggressor. (real or imagined)

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    tcaud, i'm glad you're being suspended. you don't belong anywhere near academia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    ISTj-INTj relations are comparative, sure... but there is more to these relations than meets the eye. INTj and ISTj share functions of shadow archetype, which lends itself to projections of the worst nature. -Ti always feels threatened by +Ti just as +Ti is threatened by -Ti. In as much as INTj and ISTj would seek to defend their suggestive functions, -Ti is on guard against +Fi on behalf of -Fe, even as +Ti disdains -Fe for +Fi. Again, when there is mutual respect between the two these hostilities can be mitigated, but when either side feels the victory of its antithesis in imminent, the relationship will regress into negative projection as the ego uses whatever it feels it has at its disposal to fight off the aggressor. (real or imagined)
    It doesn't matter how you analyze this tcau

    You fucked up

    You got suspended

    You did something wrong

    Just accept it. It's not socionics' fault, its your own
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    People of all political stripes -- conservative, progressive, liberal, communitarian, traditionalists (the paleo-political types as defined in political science), . Finally the individualist revolutionary is free from the fanatical zealotry of the traditionalist stalwart; the liberal is free from the close-mindedness of the conservative fringe; the conservative is free to attest to their beliefs in the face of the liberal radical; and the traditionist who upholds time tested standards of activity is free to prove their academic metal in the face of the rebel-without-a-cause, whatever the campus and whatever the institution. These concerns may not be of particular concern to a majority of college students, many of which devote themselves to an unprofessional, arguably time-wasting enterprise of getting inside their professor's heads; but to a small minority of particularly outspoken -- and moreover, creative -- individuals, they are imperative; for it is these same creative people who feel they are responsible for seeing to it that given the opportunity, their fellows need not embark on useless endevor.

    Of late top employers have said they look more carefully at 'B' students who took time out from their studies to hone their insight than they do 'A' students who gave every last energy to meet their educational institution's highest standards, whatever that meant. (and I caution, the meaning of such is again, getting inside the professors' heads). The question arises, why aren't the 'B' students 'A' students also? The answer lies with the extremists and their arbitrary tyranny. Cast down the extremists, and America's GPAs will rise.
    Sounds like you might like Wesleyan...

    Seriously though, this does seem overly reactionary on Miami U's part. It sounds like this prof tried to paint you as a potential Virginia Tech... Good thing is though, if you want to continue on at Miami U., they only suspended and didn't expel you... Also, as I'm sure you know, there are plenty of universities that might be a better social fit (from an administrative stand-point, at the very least...) If you want to stay in Ohio, Oberlin might be one to check out, or even Earlham College.

    Also, in response to what you wrote about tyranny and extremist practices, I'll just say that your view is idealistic, and noble in that way--that said, I believe you'll find (if you haven't already) that there's a critical mass of dicks and fools at most places, including at many companies and universities, even the "good" ones. Thus personal opinion, favoritism, (including: colleagues who 'got each otha's backs' to an unreasonable degree,) and other unjust mindsets/practices influence things that ideally, they shouldn't... It's the way of the world.

    I wish you luck, tcaud, sincerely... Small consolation: I've found that life will often throw this kind of stuff at someone at times when it's most helpful for that person to evolve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Sounds like you might like Wesleyan...

    Seriously though, this does seem overly reactionary on Miami U's part. It sounds like this prof tried to paint you as a potential Virginia Tech... Good thing is though, if you want to continue on at Miami U., they only suspended and didn't expel you... Also, as I'm sure you know, there are plenty of universities that might be a better social fit (from an administrative stand-point, at the very least...) If you want to stay in Ohio, Oberlin might be one to check out, or even Earlham College.

    Also, in response to what you wrote about tyranny and extremist practices, I'll just say that your view is idealistic, and noble in that way--that said, I believe you'll find (if you haven't already) that there's a critical mass of dicks and fools at most places, including at many companies and universities, even the "good" ones. Thus personal opinion, favoritism, (including: colleagues who 'got each otha's backs' to an unreasonable degree,) and other unjust mindsets/practices influence things that ideally, they shouldn't... It's the way of the world.

    I wish you luck, tcaud, sincerely... Small consolation: I've found that life will often throw this kind of stuff at someone at times when it's most helpful for that person to evolve.
    I'm open to evolving my personality, but before I can do that a case must be made as to why, and it can't be just "because that's the way it is". I never change on basis of reactions like UDP just had, because those aren't clear thinking. If it doesn't fit in the system, it doesn't stick.

    Thank you for your support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I'm open to evolving my personality, but before I can do that a case must be made as to why, and it can't be just "because that's the way it is". I never change on basis of reactions like UDP just had, because those aren't clear thinking. If it doesn't fit in the system, it doesn't stick.

    Thank you for your support.
    Maybe your ISTj teacher feels the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    It doesn't matter how you analyze this tcau

    You fucked up

    You got suspended

    You did something wrong

    Just accept it. It's not socionics' fault, its your own
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I never change on basis of reactions like UDP just had, because those aren't clear thinking. If it doesn't fit in the system, it doesn't stick.
    It doesn't fit in the system?
    Well, good luck mate.

    Maybe you can fit direct accountability into your system someday.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    it's the way you talk tcaud... you're too political and theoretical to not be seen as a threat by normal God fearing Uhhhmericans. try to just smile and nod more. not every interaction demands the exposure of raw truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    it's the way you talk tcaud... you're too political and theoretical to not be seen as a threat by normal God fearing Uhhhmericans. try to just smile and nod more. not every interaction demands the exposure of raw truth.
    Yup. Smiling and nodding can get you pretty far actually. No really.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    this is America, it can make you president.


    "I'd rather have a beer with GWB" - that is why people voted for him.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    tcaud, when Socionics explains that you will have a problem with certain types of people, explains the root of the problem and shows what can be done to diffuse it... why do you not make use of that? You are stubbornly incompatible with a large class of people who have no more impetus to change than you do. But so long as you are not willing to remedy this, you cannot complain that they refuse to.



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    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    It doesn't fit in the system?
    Well, good luck mate.

    Maybe you can fit direct accountability into your system someday.
    Direct accountability to what?

    Did I mention that this instructor is a woman? The previous arguement problem I had was with a woman, also.

    I'm seeing a kind of silent double-standardizing in effect here, that is running below the radar of conscious reason. If I confronted a man like such, I would have been told, "disagree with me if you like. You can drop the class if you prefer." I highly suspect that the reason the instructor reported me is because she was a woman who felt victimized by a man.

    If women can't stand the heat... then we should respect that openly and consider that in our rulemaking, to whatever effect comes of that. Barring what for men is a natural means of assessing another's position in situations of conflict just so that women can feel more at ease, is a step too far. They want equality, then they'll have to settle for the same.

    I also warn you UDP: in your youth and ignorance of the transcendent experience, you are projecting. You aren't being fair to me at all.

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    equal =/= same

    I don't agree that carrying on and insulting people is the "man" way to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Direct accountability to what?

    Did I mention that this instructor is a woman? The previous arguement problem I had was with a woman, also.
    What on earth is that supposed to prove?

    I'm seeing a kind of silent double-standardizing in effect here, that is running below the radar of conscious reason. If I confronted a man like such, I would have been told, "disagree with me if you like. You can drop the class if you prefer." I highly suspect that the reason the instructor reported me is because she was a woman who felt victimized by a man.

    If women can't stand the heat... then we should respect that openly and consider that in our rulemaking, to whatever effect comes of that. Barring what for men is a natural means of assessing another's position in situations of conflict just so that women can feel more at ease, is a step too far. They want equality, then they'll have to settle for the same.
    Do you ever stop rationalizing things?
    So now it is not only a socionics matter, but a Male Female issue.
    Come on now.

    What are you going to say next, she is a lesbian?
    She is from a different religious or ethnic background from you?
    She doesn't like people with your hair color?


    I also warn you UDP: in your youth and ignorance of the transcendent experience, you are projecting. You aren't being fair to me at all.
    Well I'm glad I missed whatever experience that was. You trying to hold yourself as above my remarks, based on your knowledge of socionics? You keep squirming...

    I don't see how this has anything to do with being fair. I'm telling you (apparently) things you are not seeing, I'm not passing judgment on you.



    So let me ask you a question,
    do you, personally, have ANY fault what so ever in this situation?
    If so, what is it?

    Or is this all because that person is another type, and another gender - and thus the conflict is what it is. Is she just out to get you, and you have done nothing wrong nor had any part in this. IS that what it is?

    I'll try to be fair, so tell me what you think.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    equal =/= same

    I don't agree that carrying on and insulting people is the "man" way to do it.
    Then on a cultural level that distinction must be made clear. Feminists at least argue for both and treat them as equivalent.

    And I would argue that "equal pay" for women does equate to "same pay". Do stop and consider your Te here, hmm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    What on earth is that supposed to prove?



    Do you ever stop rationalizing things?
    So now it is not only a socionics matter, but a Male Female issue.
    Come on now.

    What are you going to say next, she is a lesbian?
    She is from a different religious or ethnic background from you?
    She doesn't like people with your hair color?



    Well I'm glad I missed whatever experience that was. You trying to hold yourself as above my remarks, based on your knowledge of socionics? You keep squirming...

    I don't see how this has anything to do with being fair. I'm telling you (apparently) things you are not seeing, I'm not passing judgment on you.



    So let me ask you a question,
    do you, personally, have ANY fault what so ever in this situation?
    If so, what is it?

    Or is this all because that person is another type, and another gender - and thus the conflict is what it is. Is she just out to get you, and you have done nothing wrong nor had any part in this. IS that what it is?

    I'll try to be fair, so tell me what you think.
    If I have any fault at all in this, it is that I didn't plan my next step before initiating the encounter. I remember thinking afterward, "well I would like to get this resolved... but I'm not sure that I left her any real window to do so". I certainly wasn't able to cognize any rationale under which I could apologize, because I felt convicted in my actions. I had planned to approach her about a voluntary withdraw (which I needed her signature for) this weekend, but she had already gone on the offensive.

    Another thing I observed in retrospect, is that she may have baited me in the encounter through calculating manipulation, perhaps surmising that presenting me with a negative -Ne happening -- the failure of my exam -- would bring out the worst in my character. (that's how +Fi-Ne superego works, after all). When people bait me like that, I do usually take it simply because I see such manipulations as evil. Need to work on it, no doubt....

    It's a habit of extreme professors to try to... sabotage up-and-coming leaders they believe dangerous. And rest assured, a lot of people think typology-aware thinking is very dangerous. (I did talk to her about this a bit, to my chagrin). Especially ISTjs, who see the +Ne substance of typology as an imminent threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Look to your own PoLR.
    EXACTLY.

    If you want an ISTj to reconisder you:
    1. Recognise that we value hard work and determination --> go out of your way to provide EVIDENCE that you embody those qualities AND be consistent

    2. Respect their authority/ have some humility --> be honest about your faults and demonstrate ways in which you try to overcome them (refer to 1)

    Adhere to both these points and they'll put you in the most favourable position given the circumstance.

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    I think you're too black and white with this evil thing Tcaud. I mean there's nothing wrong with seeing the world like that, except that really it's all shades of grey. your teacher wasn't inentionally being Evil... she just has a different way of doing things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    EXACTLY.

    If you want an ISTj to reconisder you:
    1. Recognise that we value hard work and determination --> go out of your way to provide EVIDENCE that you embody those qualities AND be consistent
    You'd better offer a reason to expect it then. And, you'd have better already made every effort to make the experience as easy as possible -- that is, if it's difficult at all, then it had better be because no one could think of a way to make it easier. INTjs will accept nothing less. We -- but such should only be demanded when there is no other way. Anything less is utter arrogance. (Machintruc calls ISTjs narrowminded for a reason, you know!)

    I know that not all ISTjs really prize unnecessary effort -- not all ISTjs are alike.

    2. Respect their authority/ have some humility --> be honest about your faults and demonstrate ways in which you try to overcome them (refer to 1)

    Adhere to both these points and they'll put you in the most favourable position given the circumstance.
    It's been said before: INTj respect is earned, never acquiesced. The burden for my respect is respect for my logical sensibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    You'd better offer a reason to expect it then. And, you'd have better already made every effort to make the experience as easy as possible -- that is, if it's difficult at all, then it had better be because no one could think of a way to make it easier. INTjs will accept nothing less. We -- but such should only be demanded when there is no other way. Anything less is utter arrogance. (Machintruc calls ISTjs narrowminded for a reason, you know!)

    I know that not all ISTjs really prize unnecessary effort -- not all ISTjs are alike.



    It's been said before: INTj respect is earned, never acquiesced. The burden for my respect is respect for my logical sensibility.
    instead of always focusing on what you can't do and why you can't act different you should explore what where you CAN bend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    instead of always focusing on what you can't do and why you can't act different you should explore what where you CAN bend.
    I do, this point simply isn't one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I do, this point simply isn't one of them.
    fair enough

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    I think you're a great example of someone who needs their dual very much, a confident one that you wouldn't scare the shit out of when you talk to them. They'd most likely stop you and just shake the shit out of you before telling you to chill the fuck out and be a bit more rational about your predicament.

    Shitty things in life are much easier to blame on other people but most of the time you need to refocus your little lens on reality and see, oops... I fucked up there... and then fix the situation, even if you have to sacrifice a little pride to do so.

    Seriously though, and I'd rather not put this the wrong way but there's no other way for me to say it... and of course I know you'll just attack the shit out of me for saying it. BUT... You seem to have some MAJOR issues when it comes to dealing with people... You can be the most intelligent person in the world, and reeeeeally think so like you obviously do... but when it comes down to it, that won't help you out in any way if nobody will take you seriously. Now, the problem... is that you come across as "serious" in all the wrong ways. Which, as you pointed out... scared the hell out of your professors and makes them want to "get rid of you."

    It's really sad though, because I already know what your reply will be to this, and i'm sure there will be a you're not intelligent to be in this convo, or you don't know what you're talking about, or some other defensive remark telling me I'm full of shit and you're right because of x, y, z reasons... and deep down... this is your problem, it's much bigger than just this incident with school too though... I just hope that at some point you realize it.

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