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Thread: Thoughts on Dualization

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    sigma's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on Dualization

    There is a hope promised by socionics. The hope of dualization.
    I'm talking about taking any relation and harmonizing it through understanding.

    Why is this not better documented?
    Is great to meat a dual BUT what do you do if you are in a very serious relationship and you need help?

    So... is there any information of dualization of imperfect relationships?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Not sure if there's any real information, but I do know that both people in a relationship start to imitate the partner's dual a bit.

    A long time ago I describes the relationship between me and ILI and Expat asked if I'm sure I'm not SEE. He said what I described is exactly what an SEE traditionally gives to her relationship with an ILI. Plus as odd as it sounds, the ILI said that at some point he started knowingly phrasing his sentences the way he hears from an LSI at work and said that he needs to repeat himself much less. I didn't notice the difference at all. In stead of saying, "yeah, kinda", he said, "this is so" and I didn't reply with "are you sure?" like I used to.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Not sure if there's any real information, but I do know that both people in a relationship start to imitate the partner's dual a bit.
    Imitation might work in theory... how the heck do you imitate Se?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Ok... more context.

    I've met this amazing ILE. She's what I call a high level person. Compassionate, caring, very good professional. And she is very good looking.

    We had a physical relation. It started as just "taking advantage of each other" but it later developed into something more... I care for her... and I think she cares for me too.

    Now. What should I do. Continue searching for SLE?
    I kept searching for a nice SLE and I've met some BUT some of them were this pathetic depressed, self destroying women. I don't like the idea of being near such a person. Ok, some were very very sexy... but still, that feeling fades very quickly.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    ILE would be your illusionary right? So that's not a bad relation! Personally I believe that what's most important in relationships is the health of the individuals involved. And there are other factors in attraction and compatibility. You learn over time how to meet each other's needs as best you can. And in those areas where you can't, you learn to accept it and meet them elsewhere or do it yourself.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    ILE would be your illusionary right? So that's not a bad relation!
    Yeah... I've seen it being among the recommended ones (Filatova).

    What I would love to see are the challenges and solutions in cases like this better explained.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    Yeah... I've seen it being among the recommended ones (Filatova).

    What I would love to see are the challenges and solutions in cases like this better explained.
    this relation has been pretty good between me and infpman....but not without obstacles and stumbling blocks.

    postives: both irrational, so the life flow is similar and in sync. one logical, one ethical - this works. the ethical manages the relationship, the logical strategizes life planning and such. one introvert one extratvert, this also works, the extravert initiates and the introvert responds. there's great vitality here, great attraction, great intellectual stimulation.

    negative: the main negative has to do with a lack of practicality otherwise known as sensing. both people are a little bit detached from every day reality and tend to procrastinate about the mundane aspects of life. neither one is all that good with money...ILE probably has to be the one to take on this aspect.

    but we basically are like-minded and with a great attraction.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    neither one is all that good with money...
    yeah, we both waste it like there was no tomorrow.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Duals were invented by somebody that couldn't even find love, though. So it's just a theory, all up-in-your-head mental masturbation that doesn't make much sense.

    The truth is, nobody really knows why people like or dislike others- that's the mystery and fun. You can't take away the effort to make a *relationship* work, but attraction happens naturally, but trying to base a relationship on attraction alone ends up being a nightmare. You have to find a balance and take a lot of things into consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Duals were invented by somebody that couldn't even find love, though. So it's just a theory, all up-in-your-head mental masturbation that doesn't make much sense.

    The truth is, nobody really knows why people like or dislike others- that's the mystery and fun. You can't take away the effort to make a *relationship* work, but attraction happens naturally, but trying to base a relationship on attraction alone ends up being a nightmare. You have to find a balance and take a lot of things into consideration.
    I agree with the above post.

    I wouldn't get too caught up in looking for that perfect dual... You'll probably end up missing out on a lot of cool parts of life that you can easily experience with a person of a different type. Keep with the chick you've found now and just "be happy" with it... it'll just take a bit more work than if the dual you're after just fell into your lap.

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    postives: both irrational, so the life flow is similar and in sync. one logical, one ethical - this works. the ethical manages the relationship, the logical strategizes life planning and such. one introvert one extratvert, this also works, the extravert initiates and the introvert responds. there's great vitality here, great attraction, great intellectual stimulation.

    negative: the main negative has to do with a lack of practicality otherwise known as sensing. both people are a little bit detached from every day reality and tend to procrastinate about the mundane aspects of life. neither one is all that good with money...ILE probably has to be the one to take on this aspect.
    Again, it seems like this whole thing is too much about finding sameness that meshes well together and sameness that repels, and opposites that mesh well and opposites that repel. I just don't think relationships are all about this. I can't say that I enjoy extroverts more just because the energy thing is much easier to get started. Because it can make me edgy/uncomfortable as much as it makes me feel charged. And sometimes something can be awkward/clash-y in certain situations and environments and not others. There's too many variables.

    Sorry, not too big a fan of socioncs anymore. In fact, I'm a lot happier now that I don't think about things so much LMAO.

    I think I like making socionics parodies better than the actual "science" itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Again, it seems like this whole thing is too much about finding sameness that meshes well together and sameness that repels, and opposites that mesh well and opposites that repel. I just don't think relationships are all about this. I can't say that I enjoy extroverts more just because the energy thing is much easier to get started. Because it can make me edgy/uncomfortable as much as it makes me feel charged. And sometimes something can be awkward/clash-y in certain situations and environments and not others. There's too many variables.

    Sorry, not too big a fan of socioncs anymore. In fact, I'm a lot happier now that I don't think about things so much LMAO.

    I think I like making socionics parodies better than the actual "science" itself.
    meh, yeah i guess i see what you mean....i kinda phrased things in a socionic kinda way when i could have just used IRL examples, but you know the question is on a socionics forum....and sigma seemed like he had questions about illusionary.

    but yeah the information metabolism is only one aspect of any relation...there's a lot of other stuff that clouds around it. for sure.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Dual couples have easier relationships IME but that doesn't mean you can't have a good relationship with someone who isn't your dual. I know tons of happy non-dual couples.

    I'm married to my dual and my curiosity about why our relationship is so easy is what drew me to Socionics. Not my curiosity about why our relationship is better, or more loving, or anything like that, because I have no way to compare my relationship to someone else's in that way. I was curious about why our relationship is easy - why we don't fight. That is the thing I notice most between my relationship with my husband and non-dual couples. They don't naturally get along all the time. But just because they have to work on communication doesn't mean that overall they are less happy. Most non-dual couples seem happy too. I haven't seen yet any dual couple friends divorce, but that might just be because people are less likely to end easy relationships, not because the relationships are overall happier. I don't know. I'll have to think more about that. So from what I've seen in my life, the concept of duality is real, but it doesn't mean that if youl find your dual you'll live happily ever after, or that you can't live happily ever after with someone else. Anyway, life isn't a fairy tale.

    I really think people should just let their relationships happen pretty naturally. If you meet someone at some point who is your dual, then fine go on a couple of dates and see how it goes. But don't live your life based on a theory. Do what feels right when it feels right.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    So... is there any information of dualization of imperfect relationships?
    No. Beware, find your dual or your life will be misery. Socionics takes no prisoners; repent of your illusionary ways.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I really think people should just let their relationships happen pretty naturally. If you meet someone at some point who is your dual, then fine go on a couple of dates and see how it goes. But don't live your life based on a theory. Do what feels right when it feels right.
    I already have a relationship with a supervisor ending 3 weeks prior to the wedding. I don't ever wanna cause as much pain as I caused back then.

    I have been accused of paying too much attention to this "socionics nonsense", of thinking too much and living too little. A lot of people told me to just go with the flow. Unfortunately my conscience doesn't let me do that anymore.

    I've been in dual relationships, I've seen the good part. The reason I didn't staid with any of those girls is the fact that there are so many other aspects. I cannot stay with a person I cannot respect and admire (one of the duals was like that) nor with a dual that I'm not really attracted physically (there is a big difference between "let's have sex" and going like that wolf from cartoons).
    Last edited by sigma; 04-23-2008 at 08:11 AM.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Dualization happens because your dual-seeking function is very, very intrinsic to your nature. It's intrinsic in more ways than can really be described. Your dual-seeking function needs stimulus and for this in needs your dual. You need your dual-seeking function because it directs your base function. (that is, the most confident side of yourself). The alternative to duality is sustained neurosis, because you will always feel uncomfortable wholly committing to a non-dual partner -- your dual-seeking function is wanting something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Dual couples have easier relationships IME but that doesn't mean you can't have a good relationship with someone who isn't your dual. I know tons of happy non-dual couples.

    I'm married to my dual and my curiosity about why our relationship is so easy is what drew me to Socionics. Not my curiosity about why our relationship is better, or more loving, or anything like that, because I have no way to compare my relationship to someone else's in that way. I was curious about why our relationship is easy - why we don't fight. That is the thing I notice most between my relationship with my husband and non-dual couples. They don't naturally get along all the time. But just because they have to work on communication doesn't mean that overall they are less happy. Most non-dual couples seem happy too. I haven't seen yet any dual couple friends divorce, but that might just be because people are less likely to end easy relationships, not because the relationships are overall happier. I don't know. I'll have to think more about that. So from what I've seen in my life, the concept of duality is real, but it doesn't mean that if youl find your dual you'll live happily ever after, or that you can't live happily ever after with someone else. Anyway, life isn't a fairy tale.

    I really think people should just let their relationships happen pretty naturally. If you meet someone at some point who is your dual, then fine go on a couple of dates and see how it goes. But don't live your life based on a theory. Do what feels right when it feels right.
    seems cool

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