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    Default what type is phaedrus

    discuss

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    theoretical focus, seems structuralist...INTj
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Phaedrus is LSI.

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    LSI. I don't know what my second choice would even be because I think he's rational.
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    If he said he was ISTj or INTj then people would just say he was INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    If he said he was ISTj or INTj then people would just say he was INTp
    He may be ILI, but LII is quite hard. Pheadrus thinks he's always right, like most LSI's or ILI's.

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    Default what type is phaedrus

    discuss.

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    Default what type is phaedrus

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    The type that performs fellatio on animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's common for SLI's to think they're always right, and in a way for LSE to be that way also. Why not just let him be ILI?
    Yeah, the only reasonable type among the Te's is ENTj
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    On another note, I am clearly less logical than Phaedrus so therefore INFj is a more likely type for me than INTj. Though because I'm an INFj, my logic is bound to be wrong, so I may actually be an INTj.
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    Phaederus' Model A looks like this:




    :wink:

    "Angry Superior Sad-overt"

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    HE'S NATTA FAKKIN BAYDUH
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    Those of you who think that I am ISTj or INTj, which famous person(s) do you think is/are most similar to me in behaviour(s) and attitude(s)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Those of you who think that I am ISTj or INTj, which famous person(s) do you think is/are most similar to me in behaviour(s) and attitude(s)?
    Stalin

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Stalin
    If you are serious, elaborate. Which exact attitudes and behaviours do you see in Stalin that you think I also have? In exactly what sense are we similar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    If he said he was ISTj or INTj then people would just say he was INTp
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, the only reasonable type among the Te's is ENTj
    I agree, though I think it's FAR more likely that he's LSI. Or even LII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Those of you who think that I am ISTj or INTj, which famous person(s) do you think is/are most similar to me in behaviour(s) and attitude(s)?
    You remind me of a Beta ST I know irl. I know that this isn't much help to you because you can't really argue over his type, but it's true. The resemblance in behavior and communication style is incredible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    No.
    It was half in joke. I think some people would, tho from what you're saying here, not you.

    You remind me of a Beta ST I know irl. I know that this isn't much help to you because you can't really argue over his type, but it's true. The resemblance in behavior and communication style is incredible.
    Maybe you mistype her also But this is interesting (wether you type her correctly or not) how do you perceive Phaedrus' behaviour?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It was half in joke. I think some people would, tho from what you're saying here, not you.
    You're probably right that some people would.

    Maybe you mistype her also But this is interesting (wether you type her correctly or not)
    Him.

    how do you perceive Phaedrus' behaviour?
    I'd rather not get too into it, but I'll say is that I think he's rational, that I cannot see someone with an IP temperament putting up such a fuss so much of the time (and just generally being so stubborn and insistent), and that he seems to have no concept of how to explain things to (or even interact with) Ti PoLR types.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I'd rather not get too into it, but I'll say is that I think he's rational, that I cannot see someone with an IP temperament putting up such a fuss so much of the time (and just generally being so stubborn and insistent),
    No worries. Maybe he just feels passionate about what he talks about here?

    I think it's interesting to note tho that the ISTp is probably the most stubborn of all types for instance, and they be IP dudes/dudettes.
    and that he seems to have no concept of how to explain things to (or even interact with) Ti PoLR types.
    Ok. I don't know how he interacts with Ti PoLR types..presumably those Ti PoLR types in his quadra? We would need to ask him for that info I suppose.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 04-21-2008 at 11:59 PM.

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    In reality, I have to assume that the Phaederus knows himself better than any of us knows him. Any of the traits that have been described thus far could be attributed to any number of factors unrelated to sociotipy: upbringing, worldview, social enviroment, etc.

    Until he gives me a really good specific reason to doubt his self typing of ILI, I'll assume he knows more about himself than I or anyone else who has never really met him does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    If you are serious, elaborate. Which exact attitudes and behaviours do you see in Stalin that you think I also have? In exactly what sense are we similar?
    I can't tell if you either don't have a sense of humor, or if you have a really complex sense of humor--the kind that plays along like it isn't there but then it jumps up and BITES you when you aren't looking.

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    These 'type phaedrus' threads are jokes--the seriousness of the responses thus far has been enjoyable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    These 'type phaedrus' threads are jokes--the seriousness of the responses thus far has been enjoyable.
    Poop. I went with the joke at first, but then I just went with the flow to seriousness. Everything in this forum seems to combine some form of humor and serious discourse anyhow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    No worries. Maybe he just feels passionate about what he talks about here?

    I think it's interesting to note tho that the ISTp is probably the most stubborn of all types for instance, and they be IP dudes/dudettes.
    They're stubborn in that if they don't want to do something, they simply won't do it and there's nothing you can say or do to change that. That's not the type of stubborn I was talking about though.

    Ok. I don't know how he interacts with Ti PoLR types..presumably Ti PoLR types in his quadra? We'd need to ask him I suppose.
    It doesn't matter. The only way talking to SEE's like that would be different than talking to IEE's like that is that SEE's are more likely to become aggressive when they're provoked as such. I can't imagine him interacting with an SEE in a peaceful or pleasant way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    You remind me of a Beta ST I know irl. I know that this isn't much help to you because you can't really argue over his type, but it's true. The resemblance in behavior and communication style is incredible.
    Can you describe his attitudes and behaviours? Do you have an example of something he has written?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    In reality, I have to assume that the Phaederus knows himself better than any of us knows him.
    That's not the only thing he knows better than all of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    Any of the traits that have been described thus far could be attributed to any number of factors unrelated to sociotipy: upbringing, worldview, social enviroment, etc.
    I think this is a good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    Until he gives me a really good specific reason to doubt his self typing of ILI, I'll assume he knows more about himself than I or anyone else who has never really met him does.
    I think that what everyone questions is his understanding of socionics, not so much his understanding of himself.

    But lately I've been wondering... why *can't* Phaedrus be ILI????

    Let's say Phaedrus (as he himself attests to) has spent a lot of time learning about Socionics, MB typology, and other typing systems... he hasn't derived any new ideas about these systems, but has found a way to put all the pieces together in his mind in a way that makes clear sense to him. And now has a clear and refined understanding as the final end of this process.

    At first, perhaps, back in the early days when he didn't know much about these typing systems, there may have been many uncertainties, things that didn't quite add up or make sense... and it took him a long time to go through it all and try to make sense of all of it... and now... he finally has... the doubts have been cast away leading to a certain clear image. Now all he needs to do is articulate this image to others... which he has difficulty doing. His meaning is probably misunderstood a fair amount of time on the forum.

    This is a long process of sorting truth from falsehood with a huge emphasis on seeking objective truth.

    How is this contrary to ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    Poop. I went with the joke at first, but then I just went with the flow to seriousness. Everything in this forum seems to combine some form of humor and serious discourse anyhow.
    i think you're cute

    for what its worth, i think phaedrus is unlike any ISTj i have met in real life and talked to online. Compare to potato spirit. Just my two cents

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I'd rather not get too into it, but I'll say is that I think he's rational, that I cannot see someone with an IP temperament putting up such a fuss so much of the time (and just generally being so stubborn and insistent)
    You seem to believe that only a type with a rational base function can be stubborn and instent about what to think, about truth and knowledge. You don't seem to think that the main difference between a logical IJ and a logical IP type is manifested in their temperaments and behaviours. Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    and that he seems to have no concept of how to explain things to (or even interact with) Ti PoLR types.
    Shouldn't we expect a leading type to be better at explaining things? You seem to think that an INTp would be better at explaining things than an ISTj or an INTj. Why is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    They're stubborn in that if they don't want to do something, they simply won't do it and there's nothing you can say or do to change that. That's not the type of stubborn I was talking about though.
    They're stubborn in their opinions also, according to what i've seen and type descriptions. What sort of stubborness do you mean?

    It doesn't matter. The only way talking to SEE's like that would be different than talking to IEE's like that is that SEE's are more likely to become aggressive when they're provoked as such. I can't imagine him interacting with an SEE in a peaceful or pleasant way.
    Yeah. I mean, he seems to focus his arguments on assimilated facts, which seems kinda Te, and it does say in the function description on wiki for instance that ILI's can be a bit scathing to those they think lack necessary intelligence or understanding (or whatever) In regards to Phaedrus, I could imagine an SEE's Fi taking the edge off his occasionial abruptness (understanding of moods and such effects on possible inner feelings etc), and the SEE Se telling him to effectively shut up if necessary

    Of course we're all entitled to our opinions on it, but still, factually, ILI makes sense, plus he says he's ILI, which makes the whole typing have even more sense. It's like, why would he want to say he's something he's not (it wouldn't be of any benefit to him IRL or on the forums either I'd imagine)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let's say Phaedrus (as he himself attests to) has spent a lot of time learning about Socionics, MB typology, and other typing systems... he hasn't derived any new ideas about these systems, but has found a way to put all the pieces together in his mind in a way that makes clear sense to him. And now has a clear and refined understanding as the final end of this process.

    At first, perhaps, back in the early days when he didn't know much about these typing systems, there may have been many uncertainties, things that didn't quite add up or make sense... and it took him a long time to go through it all and try to make sense of all of it... and now... he finally has... the doubts have been cast away leading to a certain clear image. Now all he needs to do is articulate this image to others... which he has difficulty doing. His meaning is probably misunderstood a fair amount of time on the forum.

    This is a long process of sorting truth from falsehood with a huge emphasis on seeking objective truth.

    How is this contrary to ?
    All this sounds very ILI to me. In fact, the other suggestions don't make that much sense. LSI makes no sense because Phaederus hates . , and his logic is more of an accumulation, not a structuring, more like than . SLI might make a little more sense, but he seems to be very skeptical of new ideas, and always wants dry, logical proof, making an unlikely candidate for the super-id.

    Also, we are all ILIs because we spend too much time on our computers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post
    All this sounds very ILI to me. In fact, the other suggestions don't make that much sense. LSI makes no sense because Phaederus hates . , and his logic is more of an accumulation, not a structuring, more like than . SLI might make a little more sense, but he seems to be very skeptical of new ideas, and always wants dry, logical proof, making an unlikely candidate for the super-id.

    Also, we are all ILIs because we spend too much time on our computers.
    The highlighted part, definately. Also, there seems to be a confusion among certain people over the difference between first and second placed Te.

    Interestingly, re the general confusion, it's lead some people here and there within the forum to think i'm Ti ego also.

    (Just to confirm, I also agree with your overall post here tooooo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Can you describe his attitudes and behaviours? Do you have an example of something he has written?
    Sorry, but it's a colleague and I don't want to cross professional boundaries. And I don't want to get caught talking shit about a professional colleague on a public forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    You seem to believe that only a type with a rational base function can be stubborn and instent about what to think, about truth and knowledge. You don't seem to think that the main difference between a logical IJ and a logical IP type is manifested in their temperaments and behaviours. Why is that?
    It's not that they're not insistant. It's that they're insistent about different things in different ways.

    Shouldn't we expect a leading type to be better at explaining things? You seem to think that an INTp would be better at explaining things than an ISTj or an INTj. Why is that?
    It's not a matter of who's better at explaining things, it's a matter of who's better at explaining things to ExFps and who's better at explaining things to ExFjs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    They're stubborn in their opinions also, according to what i've seen and type descriptions. What sort of stubborness do you mean?


    Yeah. I mean, he seems to focus his arguments on assimilated facts, which seems kinda Te, and it does say in the function description on wiki for instance that ILI's can be a bit scathing to those they think lack necessary intelligence or understanding (or whatever) In regards to Phaedrus, I could imagine an SEE's Fi taking the edge off his occasionial abruptness (understanding of moods and such effects on possible inner feelings etc), and the SEE Se telling him to effectively shut up if necessary

    Of course we're all entitled to our opinions on it, but still, factually, ILI makes sense, plus he says he's ILI, which makes the whole typing have even more sense. It's like, why would he want to say he's something he's not (it wouldn't be of any benefit to him IRL or on the forums either I'd imagine)
    My only comment is that I think the way an EIE would tell him to shut up would be better received and more effective with him than the way an SEE would tell him to shut up.
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    More or less importantly, what Phaedrus is type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    My only comment is that I think the way an EIE would tell him to shut up would be better received and more effective with him than the way an SEE would tell him to shut up.
    Well, if thats your only comment (despite the IP thing you said earlier which didn't really make sense) i'm sure you gotta see that it's just an opinion more so, and something also to consider..he'll probably not be having discussions or debates with often hostile people about socionics IRL with his SEE.

    Something else to note, on the face of it, I don't really see how an ESFp would take kindly to Niffweeds approach either, but clearly do, or they must.

    Each 8 duality pairing is different. So they get on differently .. They complement each other as per how their model A is constructed blah blah blah etc - you know the drill

    The boys Gamma.

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    I think joy doesn't want Faildrus in her quadra. And i dont blame her
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Loki
    Let's say Phaedrus (as he himself attests to) has spent a lot of time learning about Socionics, MB typology, and other typing systems... he hasn't derived any new ideas about these systems, but has found a way to put all the pieces together in his mind in a way that makes clear sense to him. And now has a clear and refined understanding as the final end of this process.

    At first, perhaps, back in the early days when he didn't know much about these typing systems, there may have been many uncertainties, things that didn't quite add up or make sense... and it took him a long time to go through it all and try to make sense of all of it... and now... he finally has... the doubts have been cast away leading to a certain clear image. Now all he needs to do is articulate this image to others... which he has difficulty doing. His meaning is probably misunderstood a fair amount of time on the forum.

    This is a long process of sorting truth from falsehood with a huge emphasis on seeking objective truth.

    How is this contrary to ?

    All this sounds very ILI to me. In fact, the other suggestions don't make that much sense. LSI makes no sense because Phaederus hates . , and his logic is more of an accumulation, not a structuring, more like than . SLI might make a little more sense, but he seems to be very skeptical of new ideas, and always wants dry, logical proof, making an unlikely candidate for the super-id.

    Also, we are all ILIs because we spend too much time on our computers.
    Out of curiosity, I went back in time to see what I said in my very first posts on SG's forum. That's where it all started, and here's a part of my first discussion (on February 15, 2006):

    Prometheus (Phaedrus): You're probably right. Why should an ENFJ be phlegmatic? And an ENTJ is certainly not melancholic. Socionics and Keirsey Temperament Theory are two different things, but many sites seem to get it all wrong when they try to explain David Keirsey's ideas on the subject. How does the socionics site you had found explain the differences between their view and Keirsey's at wwww.keirsey.com? According to Keirsey, NTs are phlegmatic, NFs choleric, SJs melancholic, and SPs sanguine. There might be a problem here since socionics P- and J-types are not exactly the same as Keirsey's and MBTI's, but it's obvious that for example the socionic types ISTj, ISFj, ESFj and ESTj belong to the Guardian group, which Keirsey identifies as the melancholic temperament. Maybe he's wrong about them being melancholics, but he is right about them being Guardians (traditionalists). It's still a mystery.

    Being an INTP myself according to Keirsey and MBTI and most likely an INTj according to socionics (though that mighgt be open for a debate), I feel mostly phlegmatic and entirely Rational which is Keirseys name for the phlegmatic temperament.

    This is an interesting subject which has not been investigated enough yet, in my opinion.

    time is being: i wonder what the value would be in overlaying this other system onto socionics. what is the point? would the resulting profile be any more insightful? socionics seems to be a coherent system of interrelated parts, and i don't see the value of throwing a wrench into the system. perhaps socionics could be expanded, just as the 16 type system was followed through to include the relations between the types to create socionics in the first place. perhaps socionics could not only predict relations between 2 types, but groups of types. but i just don't see any reason to impose the 4 temperaments/12 mixtures system.

    Prometheus (Phaedrus): The point is that at least one system is incorrect and based on false assumptions. They could both be partly wrong.

    Types and temperaments can be observed empirically. They seem to be parts of an objective reality, and our job is to try to explain this phenomenon the best we could. Socionics may be a coherent system of interrelated parts, but MBTI seems to be coherent too, so from the fact that both the descriptions of ISTJs and the descriptions of ISTjs clearly refer to the (empirically) same type we can deduce that at least one of these two systems is mistaken on a theoretical level, since an ISTJ (SiTe) is not the same type as an ISTj (TiSe).

    The problem with my own type is slightly different. An INTP could be almost the same type empirically as an INTj, though not clearly so. They are more alike on the "molecular" level since they are both TiNe, but where does the asymmetry come from? How come an ISTJ is almost identical to an ISTj empirically but not theoretically, and an INTP almost identical theoretically but not empirically (at least not to the same degree)? Surely there is something rotten in Denmark ...

    My general point is that we can't be sure we have arrived at the correct theory yet. And until we do I think it's relevant to critically consider inputs from many different perspectives.

    A system can be cool and logical and still be false. You can also "use" a false system, astrology for example, for many practical purposes. Many users of systems are not very interested in the question of whether the system they depend on for their living as professional psychologists is true or false. They see it first of all as a practical tool. At least that's true of many users of MBTI, a fact which can be partly explained by the fact that the most common personality type among MBTI users and psychologists in general is ENFp (ENFP).

    I'm not really trying to incorporate temperaments into socionics theory, but if there really exist recognizable temperaments out there in the world, there must also exist a correlation between temperaments and personality types. Wouldn't it be interesting to know how they correlate?

    SG: What do you mean by "false" system? System is a system, it is the system because of a system.

    System:

    # A group of interacting, interrelated, or interdependent elements forming a complex whole.
    # A functionally related group of elements, especially:

    1. The human body regarded as a functional physiological unit.
    2. An organism as a whole, especially with regard to its vital processes or functions.
    3. A group of physiologically or anatomically complementary organs or parts: the nervous system; the skeletal system.
    4. A group of interacting mechanical or electrical components.
    5. A network of structures and channels, as for communication, travel, or distribution.
    6. A network of related computer software, hardware, and data transmission devices.

    # An organized set of interrelated ideas or principles.
    # A social, economic, or political organizational form.
    # A naturally occurring group of objects or phenomena: the solar system.
    # A set of objects or phenomena grouped together for classification or analysis.
    # A condition of harmonious, orderly interaction.

    And what do you have against astrology?



    Prometheus (Phaedrus): Okay, maybe I falsely assumed we all talked about "system" meaning roughly the same as "theory", i.e. in the sense "an organized set of interrelated ideas or principles". But we could use the word "theory" instead to avoid confusion. A theory is a set of propositions having a truth value - either true or false. And surely both socionics and Keirsey's temperament theory - or astrology - make statements about the world that are true or false. So by a "false system" I simply mean a theory (set of propositions) in which there are at least one objectively false proposition.

    I have nothing special against astrology other than that it is a false theory of the world. Or you could put it this way: If astrology is a true theory, then both socionics and MBTI (or actually MBTT - Myers-Briggs Type Theory) are false theories, because astrology is logically inconsistent with them. If you compare their type descriptions you'll see why.

    SG: You make no sense whatsoever!

  39. #39
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I think joy doesn't want Faildrus in her quadra. And i dont blame her
    I don't think she's bothered. She's already pretty much said she wouldn't disagree with his type just because she disagrees with him, or more or less something like that..ie I said if Phaedrus said he was ISTj, others would say he was INTp, and she said she wouldn't do that.

    Hey.. Would you?

  40. #40
    Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Well, if thats your only comment (despite the IP thing you said earlier which didn't really make sense) i'm sure you gotta see that it's just an opinion more so, and something also to consider..he'll probably not be having discussions or debates with often hostile people about socionics IRL with his SEE.

    Something else to note, on the face of it, I don't really see how an ESFp would take kindly to Niffweeds approach either, but clearly do, or they must.

    Each 8 duality pairing is different. So they get on differently .. They complement each other as per how their model A is constructed blah blah blah etc - you know the drill

    The boys Gamma.
    Time to agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I think joy doesn't want Faildrus in her quadra. And i dont blame her
    It's nothing like that. In fact, I think the second most likely type for him is probably LIE. (But he's not LIE.)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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