LSE and taking the ethical initiative

[UDP]

I do not think we can. Or at least, I cannot. I fail, greatly, at this. It seems like I have to follow other people's leads in terms of what is acceptable. I've been trying to come up with my own idea of a code of what's right and wrong, some sense of what to work towards. For the last 3-4 years.

And in every instance, I have essentially failed, and seem almost entirely dependent on the influences of others.


It's kind of pathetic, but I suppose it make sense. I understand now why NFs are actually important.

[jewels]

I do not think we can. Or at least, I cannot. I fail, greatly, at this. It seems like I have to follow other people's leads in terms of what is acceptable. I've been trying to come up with my own idea of a code of what's right and wrong, some sense of what to work towards. For the last 3-4 years.

And in every instance, I have essentially failed, and seem almost entirely dependent on the influences of others.


It's kind of pathetic, but I suppose it make sense. I understand now why NFs are actually important.

I'm really curious what you mean by "acceptable". And also what types of ethical situations you're talking about. Could you give some hypothetical examples? It's making me wonder about some ESTj friends I have and if they face similar stuff...

[idolatrie]

I do not think we can. Or at least, I cannot. I fail, greatly, at this. It seems like I have to follow other people's leads in terms of what is acceptable. I've been trying to come up with my own idea of a code of what's right and wrong, some sense of what to work towards. For the last 3-4 years.

And in every instance, I have essentially failed, and seem almost entirely dependent on the influences of others.


It's kind of pathetic, but I suppose it make sense. I understand now why NFs are actually important.

I understand what you're saying about being influenced about others, but I don't feel that personally I have failed at coming up with my own moral code. I just don't think it is something, um, 'organic' but rather something that I've put together based on all the influences in my life.

I have a very strong sense of what is right and wrong, but I see that as being a standard for me - as in, these are the things I find acceptable or not. I cannot apply my standards to other people to judge them. Because those standards are not universal, they are measures I've come up with based purely on ideology I've chosen to accept. So to take this from the theoretical and give an example, I don't want to have casual sex. That's a decision I've made because of my family background, and my values as a woman in my particular context. But at the same time, I *cannot* judge other people for having casual sex from a moral point of view. My certainty of values doesn't extend beyond me.

I hear you on being influenced. But I think we take those influences, internalise them, and process it into our own moral code. So while I follow other people's lead, I don't think this is a 'blind' process. Like, my music taste has been heavily influenced by my INTp friend. Initially, I rarely questioned her taste, to the extent of taking much of it on myself. Then, when I became more confident in exploring music, I have no problem branching out and finding other bands I like, but many of the 'standards' she uses to judge music still influence me and my taste. But, the only reason I would accept this level of influence is because I 1) respect her as someone who knows about 'good' music (and I personally responded to that music, I'm not talking about brainwashing myself into liking something I didn't have any reaction to) and 2) as one of my best friends, I trust her completely.

I don't think I'm easily influenced by sources outside ones I trust and value. So yeah, my ENFp best friend is someone who I depend on immensely, but that's because she's my best friend, not because she's a delta NF?

[force my hand]

...

This is very general, but I think I get the essence of what you're talking about. I used to be very flexible and dynamic in social/ethical situations, but it comes across as very hazy and you never hit your stride. I find personal independence is the foundation if you will. It can cause a bit of friction at first, but it's a good starting point to branch out from. I think it streamlines the sum of your relationships too, giving you a bit more context about how to act.

[UDP]

don't worry about making sense of this too much; I am realizing how ethically undeveloped I am/have been.

[mikemex]

Like an SLI I know that brags about getting out with being lazy at work and stealing materials from the shop. I simply showed disappointment on him and after a week he stopped with both.

[necrosebud]

Lol at “I understand now why nfs are actually important”

yeah I expect Fi suggestives to be like this, and it doesn’t bother me because we usually end up being on the same or similar enough pages regarding the ethics stuff