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Thread: P Stands for Phenomenon by Sergei Ganin

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Default P Stands for Phenomenon by Sergei Ganin

    From:

    http://socionics.com/articles/phenomenon.html

    ------------
    If you normally decide on someone's type by going - E or I?, S or N?, F or T?, J or P?, then you MUST know this: P types have a misleading habit of showing off their J capabilities to new people. I wonder if this is something P types do without realising they are doing it or they really have a "sinister" plan in mind. In any case there is always a show off period, which fades away gradually as P types become more familiar with you. Of course, lots of what's been said depends on a person, but this pattern keeps popping up persistently.

    At the beginning P types do what they say they would and keep their promises and come on time and show that they can be trusted, etc. They do it in incredibly believable way, if you don't know that you've got a P type in front of you, you would never question their trustworthiness.

    Then time passes and they slip. First they slip just a bit, tiny little bit just to check how you would react to that. There is always an excuse, ALWAYS! Then they do it a bit more, and a bit more, and gradually as they feel they know you better, they let it go and before you know it all turns into one huge P mess. Endless excuses, poor time management, broken promises, unfulfilled contracts, cancelled jobs - you name it! This is the time when you really should start deciding on J/P bit, unlike the E/I bit that is more obvious at the first contact. So here is the rule:


    E/I - the first preference in the type acronym - should be decided upon first, while the impression from the first contact is still fresh.

    j/p - the last preference in the type acronym - should be decided upon last, after the first "run into" impression has settled and you begin to see the real McCoy.
    ---------------

    hahahaha.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    Endless excuses, poor time management, broken promises, unfulfilled contracts, cancelled jobs - you name it!
    Sucks to be P.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Endless excuses, poor time management, broken promises, unfulfilled contracts, cancelled jobs - you name it!
    Sucks to be P.
    Who will end up doing all the boring work?

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    From:

    http://socionics.com/articles/phenomenon.html

    ------------
    If you normally decide on someone's type by going - E or I?, S or N?, F or T?, J or P?, then you MUST know this: P types have a misleading habit of showing off their J capabilities to new people. I wonder if this is something P types do without realising they are doing it or they really have a "sinister" plan in mind. In any case there is always a show off period, which fades away gradually as P types become more familiar with you. Of course, lots of what's been said depends on a person, but this pattern keeps popping up persistently.

    At the beginning P types do what they say they would and keep their promises and come on time and show that they can be trusted, etc. They do it in incredibly believable way, if you don't know that you've got a P type in front of you, you would never question their trustworthiness.

    Then time passes and they slip. First they slip just a bit, tiny little bit just to check how you would react to that. There is always an excuse, ALWAYS! Then they do it a bit more, and a bit more, and gradually as they feel they know you better, they let it go and before you know it all turns into one huge P mess. Endless excuses, poor time management, broken promises, unfulfilled contracts, cancelled jobs - you name it! This is the time when you really should start deciding on J/P bit, unlike the E/I bit that is more obvious at the first contact. So here is the rule:
    This makes it sound like we consciously set out to deceive people. I think it's more a case of yeah - trying to be all J-like in certain situations that call for that sort of thing - and just not being able to handle the stress of it after a while. You know - good intentions and all that.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Who will end up doing all the boring work?
    Often, nobody.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    <<insert eyeroll here>>

    Pul-eease. This description is quite OBVIOUSLY an egregious overstatement of P-ish tendencies. Starts off innocent enough, but then devolves into some kind of damning warning like we can't hold a regular job, have complete disregard for schedules, are constantly defaulting on our loans, missing deadlines, running after our repossessed cars, breaking the hearts of any and all who depend on us.

    "Those Ps!!! How irresponsible and directionless they are!! *SOB*!!!"

    Gimme a break. Ps readily let things slide when they don't deem them important, or otherwise wish to procrastinate or postpone. We're loath to force ourselves to do things we don't want to and are generally averse to the concept of doing something out of sheer "duty". Ps generally aren't stiff upper lip types.

    But of course, there's a continuum, people! P does not automatically a derelict or dissolute make...
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    This makes it sound like we consciously set out to deceive people. I think it's more a case of yeah - trying to be all J-like in certain situations that call for that sort of thing - and just not being able to handle the stress of it after a while. You know - good intentions and all that.
    But you have to keep in mind that the article is written from a rational's J perspective. Even if our intentions are sometimes misinterpreted or not understood correctly, it doesn't change the fact the content of the article is correct as far as the described actual behaviour is concerned.

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    I'll cop to poor time management... and a pitiful lack of self-discipline. But the other stuff just don't apply.

    I'm capable and responsible when I want to be-- the drawback is that I resist taking on too much responsibility (because people then want to load you up like one of those little burros) and dislike what I deem "obligations" (defined by things I should do, rather than things I want to do).
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I remember looking at this some time ago. A rather good article I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    I'll cop to poor time management... and a pitiful lack of self-discipline. But the other stuff just don't apply.

    I'm capable and responsible when I want to be-- the drawback is that I resist taking on too much responsibility (because people then want to load you up like one of those little burros) and dislike what I deem "obligations" (defined by things I should do, rather than things I want to do).
    Ganin's main point is still correct. J types tend to perceive us the way described. Why be upset about it? You could easily write an equally correct article about all the negative sides to being J type.

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    Anyone typing like that would end up mistaking me for P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Anyone typing like that would end up mistaking me for P.
    If you are sure about that, then you are mistyped. You cannot be an INTj if what you say here is true. How can you be sure that people would mistake you for P?

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Anyone typing like that would end up mistaking me for P.
    Interesting. The behaviour described in the article describes any j p divide of the people that I can recall off the top of my head at present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Interesting. The behaviour described in the article describes any j p divide of the people that I can recall off the top of my head at present.
    Yes, the difference between rationals and irrationals is one of the most easily spotted type dimensions in real life. Once you know what to look for, you can quite accurately observe it in the people you meet and also connect it with typical facial and body structures.

    If a person is clearly P according to Ganin's outline, then that person is almost certainly also an irrational type. This is a biological phenomenon, a life rhythm phenomenon that manifests itself in many typical ways in the people's behaviours.

    (Maybe this can explain why I tend to understand and agree with labcoat to a greater extent than I do that in my debates with other "INTjs" on this forum.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Ganin's main point is still correct. J types tend to perceive us the way described. Why be upset about it? You could easily write an equally correct article about all the negative sides to being J type.
    I just dislike stereotypes, despite the obvious pitfall of bumping into them frequently when discussing personality typology.

    Catch-all categorizing is just so unimaginative...
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    I would say than often I have used a P reclutance to do something as a signal that the thing was not really worth doing. In this sense Ps can be "useful" to Js
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    as an irrational, i do only the bare minimum of what has to be done to get by. "good enough" is my calling card. lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    as an irrational, i do only the bare minimum of what has to be done to get by. "good enough" is my calling card. lol
    P types can be perfectionists though - extremely so
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    P types can be perfectionists though - extremely so
    Yes, certainly.

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    LOL! I agree with most everything the other p's have said in this thread. We can be responsible but only when we really care about it. And I'm often of the "good enough" camp like Sunshine.

    FDGs comment was really interesting--that he uses p's reluctance to do something as an indication that it might not be worth doing.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Endless excuses, poor time management, broken promises, unfulfilled contracts, cancelled jobs - you name it!
    Sucks to be P.
    That's not P, that's your dual.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    That's not P, that's your dual.
    Don't make me get my dual to supervise you.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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