Mirror type differences: SEI-ISFp and ESE-ESFj

[Cheesy]

The ESE is the one who is up in the kitchen helping. The SEI is the one standing next to the table, eating. lol Bad stereotype but you know what they say--it's a stereotype for a reason.

and although it's funny it's a very accurate distinction. An ESE will be restless and more of the upbeat concerned mother type while the SEI will have their eyes on the chips. There's always something creative to do in the food department. SEIs will have an exceptionally good time with food and some people cracking up crazy stuff. The ESE will be more conscious of proper behavior and less edgy. Both know how to have a good time but the ESE is just more organized and less "insane".

[redbaron]

and although it's funny it's a very accurate distinction. An ESE will be restless and more of the upbeat concerned mother type while the SEI will have their eyes on the chips. There's always something creative to do in the food department. SEIs will have an exceptionally good time with food and some people cracking up crazy stuff. The ESE will be more conscious of proper behavior and less edgy. Both know how to have a good time but the ESE is just more organized and less "insane".

Yeah, the ESE is more conscious of proper behavior, I agree. And restless. And making sure you're getting enough to eat and watching to see where they can help the hostess. The ESE is one of the last to go home because they're helping clean up. The SEI is one of the last to go home because they're talking a blue streak about their childhood. Or the latest movie or concert they attended or showing you their design project. lol But I love 'em. I love SEIs and ESEs. So sweet (SEI) and helpful (ESE). So gentle (SEI) and concerned (ESE). I could go on but I'll stop now.

[redbaron]

And I'll throw this in too: If you're striving to be a certain way because you need to be or feel you should be, that's not your natural temperament.

[Cheesy]

Yeah, the ESE is more conscious of proper behavior, I agree. And restless. And making sure you're getting enough to eat and watching to see where they can help the hostess. The ESE is one of the last to go home because they're helping clean up. The SEI is one of the last to go home because they're talking a blue streak about their childhood. Or the latest movie or concert they attended or showing you their design project. lol But I love 'em. I love SEIs and ESEs. So sweet (SEI) and helpful (ESE). So gentle (SEI) and concerned (ESE). I could go on but I'll stop now.

You described the differences extremely well. That totally describes my ESE and SEI friends.

[cracka]

I think Redbaron has pointed out the differences almost perfectly.

I'm ESE so I can just relate to what's been said more than give you any real insight to your own type.

The conscious of proper behavior thing is spot on, I'm usually the person who will act a bit goofy some times, but I'll be quick to straighten up myself or others if it gets "too much" or if I feel it's not the right time to act that way.

As far as working goes, I'm the one who will try to set up everything to take care of itself before leaving it to someone else, it's my way of helping, but also making sure things are done correctly. I'm very much a person who lives by the phrase, "if you want it done right, do it yourself." Even though, it's not that I don't think others can do the same work as myself, it's more like... I know I can do it more efficiently and make sure it's done correctly. (disclaimer about efficiency: Not all people think the ESE is very efficient though, I've just done what I do for a long time and know all the in's and out's of the job so I have that ability.)

I had my 10 year high school reunion the other day and at the beginning of it, when everyone was still getting there, I was the one setting up all the sound equipment and tables so everything would be "ready" when the actual time for the reunion was going on. At the end of the night, I was one of the few people tearing everything down and cleaning up the place. With myself, there seems to be that willingness to help at all times. For some reason, I could see that being a difference that may be easy to see between the two types.

[redbaron]

I know I can do it more efficiently and make sure it's done correctly. (disclaimer about efficiency: Not all people think the ESE is very efficient though, I've just done what I do for a long time and know all the in's and out's of the job so I have that ability.)

I had my 10 year high school reunion the other day and at the beginning of it, when everyone was still getting there, I was the one setting up all the sound equipment and tables so everything would be "ready" when the actual time for the reunion was going on. At the end of the night, I was one of the few people tearing everything down and cleaning up the place. With myself, there seems to be that willingness to help at all times. For some reason, I could see that being a difference that may be easy to see between the two types.

This just makes me laugh, you are so much like my husband. He's obsessed with efficiency. He gets mad at cabbies when they take him a way that he doesn't deem fastest. He's always talking about how the traffic lights could be timed better for greater efficiency, etc. He's the one taking down the tables at the end of the parties--there's always that willingness to help along with the ability to jump in and just do it without even being asked. But I do I think an SEI would be drained at the end of the night and less likely to jump in and help. So I agree with you--that might be a difference between the types that would be easy to see.

[Blaze]

But I do I think an SEI would be drained at the end of the night and less likely to jump in and help. So I agree with you--that might be a difference between the types that would be easy to see.

.....basically lazy.....lol

[redbaron]

.....basically lazy.....lol

yeah, basically. I'm the same.

[Blaze]

yeah, basically. I'm the same.

yeah....so is infpman.

[redbaron]

Cool, I'm glad you figured it out!

[Rubicon]

The ESE is the one who is up in the kitchen helping. The SEI is the one standing next to the table, eating. lol Bad stereotype but you know what they say--it's a stereotype for a reason.

I object! :-) Both of us help in the kitchen - it's just that the ESE is all efficient about it, puts all the dishes away in correct cupboards and all that - whereas the SEI leaves things to dripdry and may start a tea towel fight.

Also, the ESE will try and get people to eat the leftovers so that they can wash the bowls, whereas the SEI will secretly be glad that there are leftovers so they don't have to wash the bowls.

[redbaron]

I object! :-) Both of us help in the kitchen - it's just that the ESE is all efficient about it, puts all the dishes away in correct cupboards and all that - whereas the SEI leaves things to dripdry and may start a tea towel fight.

Also, the ESE will try and get people to eat the leftovers so that they can wash the bowls, whereas the SEI will secretly be glad that there are leftovers so they don't have to wash the bowls.

[Mediator Kam]

I like food lotz and we show it off.

[taz]

I drive the ESE nuts sometime cause I eat the food while making sure it set up even though to them it not nice and neat, lol. But I like there reaction.

[cracka]

I drive the ESE nuts sometime cause I eat the food while making sure it set up even though to them it not nice and neat, lol. But I like there reaction.

I don't think I understood what you said here?

taz
Location: U.S.A.

Really? lol.

[taz]

I don't think I understood what you said here?

Really? lol.

lol, sorry bad English. Most my ESFJ's friends, can be naggy, picky. I tend to grab little of each tray to taste the food as I'm setting the tray out to table. The ones I know react by squealing, shreek, come and slap my hand (Which I don't expect cause they seem really nice and sweet), when I grab food to taste or mess something up. When to them, I'm not suppose to (to me it really funny). Then at end of day the ESFJ's usualy make me take the leftover food home whether I want it or not. I just think ESFJ's are funny by the way they react when ya mess something up (to them) and you don't even know it.

[redbaron]

This acquaintance of mine is definitely alpha SF but I cannot for the life of me tell if she's SEI or ESE. I'm pretty sure her husband is ILE. But don't rush to assume that this makes her SEI, as it very well could be an activity relationship and I don't usually see them interact together--we're not couple friends, I'm just friends with her and I know him.

Okay so... first of all she's very chatty and friendly with everyone. She doesn't seem like an introvert. But she's older (maybe 50) so it could just be that she's come out of her shell over time. I didn't know her when she was younger. She's overweight (her husband is thin --looks a bit like a bald Nicholas Cage) and waddles (like they talk about in the SEI v.i. descriptions) when she walks. She's musical and pretty quick to point out when something's being done wrong during rehearsal (I'm in a group with her) which makes me think Ej>Ip. She's quick to volunteer to help (classic enneagram 2 I suppose, which is also making me think ESE). I can tell that she sort of expects everything to be open and inclusive with everyone. In other words, she's not someone who would tell you anything in confidence usually. Everything is open and democratic. She always notices what I'm wearing and is usually the first person to comment. She loves this bag I have that has lots of sparkly colors on it. Last time I saw her, she grabbed it and said she wanted to keep it. lol She likes sparkly jewelry and has this diamond tennis bracelet she likes to kind of show off. Not obnoxiously but the way she holds her arm is sort of like she's hoping it will get noticed. She knows lots of people. She's preoccupied with her house, decorating it and stuff but I don't like her taste. She sort of seems like she's bragging when she talks about it. When two other people are talking, she'll occasionally butt in and start talking to both of them, as if she's assuming the conversation is open and not private. Which can be sort of awkward, even though her intentions are good. When she's not talking about her house, she talks about her family, upcoming plans, vacations, etc. She gets along pretty well with my SEI friend but I think they bore each other after awhile or they don't quite see eye to eye the way that the SEI and I do.

What do you think? ESE?

[ArchonAlarion]

uhg. Sounds like ESE.

You didn't really give any counterpoints to ESE, so by that I go with ESFj.

Also because it sounds like I'd hate her, whereas I kinda find SEI's amusing.

[redbaron]

yeah ok. I guess as I was writing the description, it kind of became clearer. lol

[redbaron]

uhg. Sounds like ESE.

You didn't really give any counterpoints to ESE, so by that I go with ESFj.

Also because it sounds like I'd hate her, whereas I kinda find SEI's amusing.

well my main counterpoints were that she looks a bit like an SEI and kind of has that stereotypically chubby appearance, which I realize can be true in any type but it just made me wonder. And then I keep thinking that she's pretty fixated on Si things. Then since I don't often see her talking to her husband in public, I had the thought that maybe they're duals since they say that duals sometimes ignore each other in public. I dunno. Those were just lame doubts in my mind I guess. After writing all of that though, I do think she's ESE.

[Mediator Kam]

She def sounds ESE to me.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Um.. I dunno redbaron, I was kinda thinking ISFp. But heh..could be ESFj ! Maybe you could look at the socionic intertype relation with you and her and see which one adds up? Are you her supervisor or look-a-likes?

[717495]

Here are sections from wikisocion about the ESE and the SEI. But please do one thing for me, and take these following with a grain of salt. Everyone argues against something or other about them. Thank you.

ESE


The individual is always in tune to the emotional flow surrounding him, and responds to it spontaneously and directly. He seeks out and creates activities where people are totally engaged in what they are doing. Something's value is directly tied to how much it arouses his (or another's) passion.
He is highly proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers ideal to a given situation. He may, for example, try to cheer people with jokes if he sees that they are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. Nevertheless, he believes emotions should be expressed as honestly as possible.


The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and making sure people are calm and enjoying themselves, but displays this behavior and skill when he sees a specific need for it rather than doing it automatically, all the time. The individual does not place emphasis on being calm and balanced all the time, as opposed to those with as a leading function.
The individual is attuned to people's tastes (personal preferences) and likes to do things for or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure. For example:
creating a comfortable, clean, and spacious setting in the home
taking them out to do something they enjoy
finding opportunities and people with whom they can pursue their hobbies

SEI


A strong ability to recognise internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states.
Individuals who possess as a base function are drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical experience. Whenever base function individuals are taking part in something that involves recognising, recreating, or analyzing physical states, they feel a great deal of personal power and enthusiasm.
The avoidance of discomfort is one of the primary motivations of these types. Feelings of internal discomfort can arise from a tense psychological atmosphere, working too hard and sapping the body's resources, being pressured by other people or by numerous "things to do," and from unsatiated or oversatiated physical needs. These types tend to quickly recognize and be quite vocal about discomfort that arises and either take clever measures to dissipate it or simply get out of whatever is bothering them. They are very receptive to other people sharing feelings of discomfort with them and can help alleviate the tension and offer good solutions.
Si leading types are constantly adjusting themselves to their environment (which includes the people around them), and rarely have any fixed ideas about what is "appropriate" to desire in a given situation. Thus they are willing to accommodate other people's needs in an ad hoc manner. It is enough for something to "feel right" for them to justify doing it. This behavior may seem random to outside observers, since it is concomitant with weak .


The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view. For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively.

[717495]

The last part is about the PoLR function. The PoLR function is the least valued, least regarded function, and you're bad at using it too, even though you don't even want to use it. It can cause certain problems though.

ESEs PoLR is (here is a simple transcription from wikisocion)

The individual prefers to focus on immediate tasks, taking things as they come, rather than try to evaluate the outcome of present trends. Inclination to tell stories or narrate events on a sequential basis, rather than outlining how one event led to another.
He perceives time in an undifferentiated manner: the past, present, and future are all perceived as being in or near the present. When talking about the future (especially one's longer-term plans), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first.
He generally has a poor sense of how long things will take and what the best amount of time to spend on things is. Therefore it is difficult for him to stay on schedule without extensive (even total) pre-planning.

SEIs PoLR is (here is a simple transcription from wikisocion)

The individual is skeptical of basing beliefs, arguments, and actions on external sources of information. For instance, a SEI will rather trust the expertise of someone who seems to have hands-on experience, even if limited, than of someone who demonstrates to have read many books on the same subject. IEIs (who also have this PoLR) will base their opinions and views on their own personal insights and be, again, skeptical of "second-hand" factual information that contradicts it. "Don't trust everything you read" is a typical sentiment, especially when applied to sources of information otherwise seen as neutral and reliable, such as encyclopedias and handbooks. He also dislikes dealing with issues involving efficiency, productivity, and factual accuracy of statements; statements are made according to input from other functions, not from double-checks against external facts which are seen as of lesser relevance to the issue at hand. He lacks confidence in his ability to find relevant information in outside sources.

And you might want to go back to Rick Delong's website and look at which one seems more PoLR to you. Most of this material is vague in my opinion.

[717495]

Another thing if you're up to it, is if you want to know the difference between the "dominant" function, and the "creative" function, this page explains them all in its own way, and much of what's there seems basically true. Functions - Wikisocion ---> just scroll down to leading and creative.

[Joy]

The ESE's I know are always telling me to stop doing shit because I'm gonna hurt myself (or advising me on how not to hurt myself), buying/bringing me food, telling me how to eat or what food/drink is awesome, etc. Sometimes even laundry and shit.

wtf. I'm well aware of how likely it is that I'm going to hurt myself and know how to minimize risk of injury in a worst case scenario. And no I don't always eat right and yes it causes me problems and yes you may bring me food, but idk... okay fine, food is awesome. But anyways, I'm not gonna end up in the hospital, just chill.

Erm, the point of the topic was to ask how SEI's approach Si differently than ESE's. They're less proactive with random people I'm sure (okay fine maybe the ESE's I'm referencing don't see me as a random person, but whatever), but also more focused on it... so how does that translate to their interactions? How do SEI's provide Si to people they're close to, people they like but aren't close to, and just random people?

[Suz]

The ESE's I know are always telling me to stop doing shit because I'm gonna hurt myself (or advising me on how not to hurt myself), buying/bringing me food, telling me how to eat or what food/drink is awesome, etc. Sometimes even laundry and shit.

wtf. I'm well aware of how likely it is that I'm going to hurt myself and know how to minimize risk of injury in a worst case scenario. And no I don't always eat right and yes it causes me problems and yes you may bring me food, but idk... okay fine, food is awesome. But anyways, I'm not gonna end up in the hospital, just chill.

Erm, the point of the topic was to ask how SEI's approach Si differently than ESE's. They're less proactive with random people I'm sure (okay fine maybe the ESE's I'm referencing don't see me as a random person, but whatever), but also more focused on it... so how does that translate to their interactions? How do SEI's provide Si to people they're close to, people they like but aren't close to, and just random people?

Actually SEIs do plenty of that too... my mom for example... She's def not Ej so i really dont think she's ESE > SEI. And she does exactly what you said in your first sentence. EXACTLY. Maybe her being in "mom" mode contributes to the behavior, who knows... Yeah it drives me crazy too!!

[Creepy-Snaps]

How do SEI's provide Si to people they're close to, people they like but aren't close to, and just random people?

ESE - Fe+Si - Reaching out to people and helping them, Fe, by using their sense of what is physically healthy, comfortable, long-term, Si. (Using the creative function, changeable, to support the goals of the leading function, which is unchangeable.)

SEI - Si+Fe - Creating a comfortable, relaxing atmosphere around them, Si, and reaching out to people if need be, Fe, to influence the relaxing atmosphere. (Again, the creative function can be used when need be, to support the goal of the leading function.)

So, Joy, in one sentence: SEIs don't bother to teach people helpful skills, as much as ESEs, because Fe isn't their leading function. SEIs aren't as good as ESEs with affecting other people with happiness, but are better and more knowledgeable at maximizing comfort.

Is this making sense? That's the basic explanation. A more detailed one would include the differences between Ej and Ip temperament, how Ej normally want to enact more change in their external environment anyway, etc.

Another nuance I'll mention, cause you've also been studying socionics for years, not to confuse the new people, but: SEIs are slightly more polite in their approach to people... tough to notice, but with Si, they don't want to disturb anyone, and can be some of the most laid-back, easy to get along with people. To contrast with ESEs, who can downright seem aggressive with helping people... everyone on this forum knows I'll give advice quickly, if I think it'll help someone, regardless of whether or not they're ready to accept it, or it'll be comfortable to hear.

Another distinct nuance... going along with that mindset... I'd rather make someone a bit uncomfortable now, using Si creatively, if I think it'll maximize comfort in the long-run. (Creatively using Si to ultimately help people, Fe) And vice versa, SEIs preferring to maximize comfort first and foremost, Si, want any helpful approach to be comfortable, accepted... their goal isn't to help people, but to help make things comfortable... advice in the long run, helping people, isn't as important as helping people relax, in the here and now... the nuance I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph, being, that this corresponds with the Reinin dichotomies, with ESEs being farsighted, and SEIs being carefree...

This should help clear things up for you.

[1981slater]

SEI: brings food and tells you to "be more social"
ESE: does sth that makes you smile and then tells you to "be more physical"

[Mediator Kam]

If I am close to someone, I will try to make them more comfortable. Giving them pillows, handing them their jacket, asking if they want anything to drink, going out of my way to do these things. If it is someone who I don't know well or is in some way not my equal, I am not going to suppose that they need my help.

[Khola aka Bee]

All of this cements my self-typing of ESE further.

[Joy]

Okay, so SEI's aren't as intrusive. Makes sense.

[Joy]

hi felafel!

[Nowisthetime]

When I think about it I don't feel that I "provide Si" at all. My natural social behaviour is to very softly cheer things up and make things light and less dull. So I guess that's Fe creative. I do this automatically, I usually don't think about it, but that's basically what gives a social situation it's meaning. If I cannot do this, I get bored or feel insecure.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

If it is someone who I don't know well or is in some way not my equal, I am not going to suppose that they need my help.

how convenient

[Absurd]

[717495]

Happy Happy Joy Joy Song