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Thread: David Beckham and Victoria Beckham

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Default David Beckham and Victoria Beckham

    let's type posh & becks! we were talking about them in a stickam chat recently, and EIE (her) and LSI (him) was suggested.



    interview with ali g
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=P842Tmi6lrc
















    Last edited by silke; 08-12-2015 at 07:55 AM. Reason: fixed links

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    jessica129's Avatar
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    I love her and i'm not sure why. My immediate thought was also EIE for her and ISTJ/P for him. Sickeningly attractive people they are.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Never really thought about their types. But then, he's always seemed a bit gentle to be ISTj, in his persona and in his way of playing soccer. At a guess I would say INFp for him and ESTp for her. I think she is the one with the drive, he wants to play football and care for his family, he seems quite an F type when he explains his decision making process, even his motivation for playing for the national team - it's all about the fans he says, he is happy when he sees their happy, could be Fe more than anything.

    She much more ambitious
    and wants to be the 'queen' of pop music, fashion, looks and such, and seems more a logical type in what i've seen of her decisions I think.

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    Perhaps..
    SEI for him
    EIE for her

    Edit: I have never really thought of him as intuitive type but trying to think out of the box...IEI is not impossible I guess. I still stick with SEI though. He seems a bit softy for LSI but then again I thought the ex formula world champion Mika Häkkinen was SEI for similar reasons when some other people thought LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    Perhaps..
    SEI for him
    EIE for her
    that might work. i don't think she's strong on the sensing somehow.
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    David always seems to talk about past performances and historical national pride and how the team is building for the future when referring to the national team. When he was talking about the move stateside he was talking about the future, making soccer really big there. This is more Ni. He could be S but then his preferred mode of conversation seems to suggest the N.

    What do you think? And why would you say the S?

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    that might work. i don't think she's strong on the sensing somehow.
    Yeah. First impression from her is intuitive. About him I'm not sure. E.g. are his weird Si fixations more a sign of role Si or leading Si. E.g. that he wears a pair of shoes only once and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    David always seems to talk about past performances and historical national pride and how the team is building for the future when referring to the national team. When he was talking about the move stateside he was talking about the future, making soccer really big there. This is more Ni. He could be S but then his preferred mode of conversation seems to suggest the N.

    What do you think? And why would you say the S?
    Could be...then I would suggest INFp. So, ISFp or INFp is my guess.

  9. #9
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    Could be...then I would suggest INFp. So, ISFp or INFp is my guess.
    INFp is what I mentioned earlier too in the thread. I think INFp is more likely, but I guess he could be ISFp, I could see it.

    I'm not sure of Si tho, although judging by his soccer playing style I would say Si is more likely than the Se, what would make you suggest the Si for him?

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    I'd say they're both Si-dominant! Maybe, JUST MAYBE, she could be IEI, but I don't see the EJ there. I don't remember EIE ever being proposed before and there's been so many threads about them.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Is anyone able to explain why he is Si dominant? And why he isn't Ni?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Is anyone able to explain why he is Si dominant? And why he isn't Ni?
    Because I saw him in some show... he was way too obsessed with each strand of hair. There was none of the Ni-dominant "observing 10 things at once". He was there, calm like someone who has nothing else on his mind and fixing his hair very meticulously.

    Mhh... maybe he's INTj? and she's ISFp. She's way too Fe to be ISTp.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Is anyone able to explain why he is Si dominant? And why he isn't Ni?
    I don't think metrosexuals are Si dominant.

    Mostly because it takes him 50 minutes to get ready on any given night. Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I don't think metrosexuals are Si dominant.

    Mostly because it takes him 50 minutes to get ready on any given night. Really?
    This is something to consider. It might be a sign of Si insecurities more than strong Si. Role Si??? Many INFps tend to put a LOT of effort into Si things because they feel insecure.

  15. #15
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I don't think metrosexuals are Si dominant.

    Mostly because it takes him 50 minutes to get ready on any given night. Really?
    lol. Where did his hair go? Maybe he had to cut it off due to overstyling damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Because I saw him in some show... he was way too obsessed with each strand of hair. There was none of the Ni-dominant "observing 10 things at once". He was there, calm like someone who has nothing else on his mind and fixing his hair very meticulously.
    Haha. I'm not sure if being Si means a person would obsess over their appearance. What do you make of all the Ni stuff he talks about?

    He's softly spoken as well, which can be a sign of N. S types tend to have stronger, even more melodic voices.
    Mhh... maybe he's INTj? and she's ISFp. She's way too Fe to be ISTp.
    Dunno, he seems to smile and be a bit too emotionally expressive not to have the Fe in his ego from what I've seen of him, certain decisions he's made come across more F than T by examples in the thread so far. I would say weak Se though, he's not really pushy. She's the pushy one

    She doesn't smile at all, but maybe thats because she's busy posing?

    Disclaimer: I only know about him due to the manly soccer links. It's nothing to do with a secret of buying womans weeklies tabloid magazines for all the showbiz gossip.

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    Nah...doesn't this look more Si? The "calm look".

  17. #17
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    You know, I could see her as the ESTp mirror, the ISTj. She's allegedly quite pushy about her career, often kind of serious. I think she's got that ISTj edgyness about her which you see in this type with there weak N..they're inability to handle uncertain situations for long. I think I could see her losing it like that. She's quite quiet also, suggesting more of an I than an E.

    INFp and ISTj, activity partners. Supposedly they hit it off straight away, like activators do. I could see that.

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    implied's Avatar
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    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/fe...le2643979.ece#

    she looks a little like ezra there.
    6w5 sx
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    this is getting confusing now

    But what is funny is that when you click that link implied posted you end up in a page with a picture of Victoria Beckham and under her brests there is a clickable text link which says "enlarge".

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    this is getting confusing now

    But what is funny is that when you click that link implied posted you end up in a page with a picture of Victoria Beckham and under her brests there is a clickable text link which says "enlarge".
    6w5 sx
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    they are cute
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  22. #22
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    he doesn't seem like a Vladimir Putin (Ti subtype). but having made millions and earned the limelight, i could see some other ISTj subtype "relaxing and having fun with their 8th function" (Si) as much as David Beckham might appear to be.
    And here you assume that he has wanted to earn the limelight? How do you know he hasn't been advised to accept sponsorship deals like so many before him have? To specify, since when is doing overtime (which is what he's doing really) related to Putin or anything else you say here?
    type descriptions note that the Ti subtype is more ambitious in climbing hiearchies, while the Se subtype is more likely to exercize the sensing function to maintain existing power. (POLR-related perhaps?) sounds compatable with being a pro-athlete. and i notice a lot of ISFj-Se's on my own college's soccer teams.
    What power, what hiearchies has he used Se to climb? Specifically.. why do you think that having talent and being professional and/or committed has anything to do with Se or Ti here?

    Hey.. all the types can be talented and committed.

    I know you're just putting things out there, or at least I think you are, but i'd be really reluctant to type someone along these lines, when you think about it.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 04-12-2008 at 03:32 AM.

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    He's ISTj. At quick glance, she looks ENFJ*; and that interviewer in the first video looks INFp.


    * which reminds me: still need to correct my Thandie Newton typing to ENFj-Ni.

  24. #24
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky View Post
    He's ISTj. At quick glance, she looks ENFJ*; and that interviewer in the first video looks INFp.


    * which reminds me: still need to correct my Thandie Newton typing to ENFj-Ni.
    No offense, but is this an opinion or do you have any evidence to back this up?

    For instance, I've provided plenty to show why he isn't ISTj

  25. #25
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I think if we were going to type them that way, she would be the IEI and he would be the SLE.

    talk about wanting and loving Fe!!
    No. He has it to give. If you read further on, you will see why he clearly has INFp, specifically Ni in his ego block. Then if you read further on again you will see that I think she is ISTj and they are activity partners.
    fits with Se HA imo.
    Why?
    same. in fact I can see why Si would be her PoLR, take the very first line of stratievskaya's Si in the EIE: "Basic problem of Hamlet in his constant sensation of internal physical discomfort. As if it constantly something irritates or torments." IMO this is probably one of the reasons why she is so obsessed with her appearance. she is trying to "fix" her Si problem with an Se-oriented solution maybe?
    No. She's just image obsessed. Lots of people are, especially girls in the media who aren't really all that attractive, like her.
    it is. it's a more recent thing of hers; if you go further back you see she smiles more (very big nice smile) in pictures and video and such.
    No. She's known even back in the spice girls for not being a smiler.
    they kick ass.
    They're assholes. Well she is definitely, he's sort of OK.

    Your reasoning is far too flimsy Glam, and it's based on insufficient evidence. For instance, that interview could be meaningless. What were their states of mind when it was carried out, how many had they done that day. There is too much room for error using that method.

  26. #26
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I don't agree with your reasonings though. as for "why", I just think you attributing things to functions/dichotomies that shouldn't be attributed to them.
    Your entitled to your opinion of course, but how many ISTj's do you know are confident about speaking of something that is N related? I've never seen him talk forcefully or any form of confrontation after a soccer match.

    I've seen him cry when he had a sore stomach at a football match (yes, he had to be substituted and he threw up at the sidelines then started crying)

    ISTj are far too macho to be non confrontational, submissive and crying like that. Infact probably ST types all are too 'macho' to behave like a pansy.

    If anything it sounds like he could be doing with having Se rather than it currently being in his ego block.

    read some themes of Se (bolding the ones that especially apply to her): authority, influence, exterior view, will, desire, weight, readiness, force, tactics, territory, form, color. that is her hidden agenda. she is trying to fulfill it. Se hidden agenda has also been referred to before as wanting "to be wealthy." of course that's very simplified, but yeah.
    These things you've highlighted, people also use that to describe creative, or even dominant Se. You make no distinction that she is seeking these things, in fact she seems to be in possession of these traits, suggesting an ego block Se.
    so, you're saying that the reason she's image obsessed absolutely has nothing to do with some insecurities that could be type-related? how do you know that?
    Not everything has to be function related. She is not that good looking a girl, she's no 'natural looker' and she's certainly analysed her appearance, based on the image obsessed line of work she has found herself in, so I'm sure she knows that.

    Her obsession with her weight for instance, as an example, body dysmorphia has got more to do with psychological related issues that just type. You can't attribute everything to her type, or anyones. One has to consider everything before deciding what can be related to type, and then prioritise accordingly.

    Do you think she would be *as* image concious if her livelyhood didn't depend on it? I doubt she would be quite as bothered. Just about all celebrities are image concious, regardless of type. They have to be.
    well, I think she still smiled more back then, based upon what I've seen. I could be wrong though, sorry.
    No thats ok. We guys here have been subjected to them for over ten years now I would guess, so it's only natural I'll know more about them.

    You're welcome to them for a while
    um, ok. and I'm not trying to argue they are "definitely" LSI-EIE, I just agree that the current available evidence points that way.
    He could be LSI of course, but I just can't buy it. He is much too softly spoken to be LSI (which if anything is more of an N thing, introvert and N)

    He is placid and does not loose his temper or over react as ISTj's have a tendency to do. He simply has far too much patience to be ISTj. He's demonstrated this over the years.

    Funny thing is, I can't believe I'm actually talking about these two guys. What's this forum doing to us I wonder.

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    LokiVanguard's Avatar
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    I think it can be really easy to pull off a "Si" vibe.

  28. #28
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    @ifmd95, in short:

    1. Your trying to make him fit ISTj at all costs because someone else suggested it, so to do this your reasons become even more far fetched.

    2. Your comparison to Rasmussen means you are doing two things - you are assuming he's typed correctly and you are assuming this one person is the benchmark of ISTj behaviour.

    3. Your obsession with heirarchy seems more like your own views on life clouding other peoples possible views. In any event, INFp's like to be around 'important' people, so what you say has nothing exclusive to ISTj

    4. Overtime-this is what he does after soccer training-the sponsorship deals. What on earth are you actually talking about.

    5. Injury- I told you what was wrong with him

    6. The way you see Si and Si base is like a cartoon carichature of it's reality. Also, Beckham is far too much a team player to be ISTp, or ISFp for that matter

    7. This Se-Ij voice thing for Beckham is nonesense, stick to what you know about him before attaching ridiculous sub-type theories to support ISTp, I refer back to point 1. (incidentally, teachers are not a good example, they often have to change the way they speak when taking a class)

    I'm not just trying to criticise you for the sake of it, but I just can't see anything worthwhile in what you've written, and I think you should re-train your typing methods. Sorry.

  29. #29
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I'll answer just now, however I must be brief, time being of an essense for the moment at this end, but I'll try put as much in as I can nonetheless;

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    How do you know why I'm trying to make him fit?
    You said other people have said ISTj so far. Why are you fixated on ISTj then? You may not mean it, but you give the impression that if most people had said another type then you would look to support that one instead.

    I'm curious tho, is it for the sake of debate or do you really think that is the best fit type?
    I do know you you musn't know much of anything about my typing history, because "at all costs" accurately describes hardly any typing I've ever made. I've even conceded typing errors to Dee of all users.
    Ok, it appears that way from some of the things you've said, is all.
    If anything I waffle too much on these. What you perceive as "at all costs" is me simply considering a large amount of data to do the best I can with a very subjective decision. If I think the data starts to tip some other direction, I will follow it. At the very least, I think what Im doing is probably more productive than this armchair BS of yours, telling me why Im doing what I do.
    Your endless waffling is armchair bullshit.
    Rasmussen appears to me as an accurate and accessible representative of all the ISTj behavior Ive observed in other typed celebrities, in type descriptions, in my own real life. Not quite my benchmark of ISTj's  that's instead a nameless concept in my head. But hes a decent approximation of it to use in trying to get across my point.
    You cannot use celebrities as your guide, or rather to do so will inevitably lead to errors; they are notoriously hard to type, because for the most part we only see them in work mode. Even proper socionists frequently disagree on celebrity typings!

    *shrug* I never implied this point was exclusive. (And I doubt you know much about my life views.) I raised the point to demonstrate inclusion  that while other ISTjs appear more hierarchically-driven, Beckham could still very well be this type.
    But it is irrelevant because it's not inclusive. Your reasons are far too foggy to narrow it down from more or less all the types.

    His wife does them too though. So maybe he does them to be with his wife, or maybe it feeds a Fe dual-seeking function of his. The point? --this might not seem like actual work to him. you say doing overtime really  that statement could cast his motives for these deals in a mercantilist light. That may not be the case.
    You have not done your homework. He did these sponsorship deals before he had even met his partner, not even married. To suggest his wife has anything to do with his career, and put it forward as legitimate in the way you do (even if you are unaware that you are doing it) is simply ludicrous.

    Again it would appear that you are over analysing in this instance, to say it is a mercantilist light. Is it too hard to accept that he does them to earn money? Thats why pretty much everyone goes to work after all.

    Even if it is to be with his wife, why is that Fe seeking, he could want to be with his wife because he loves her, or to 'seek' any of the functions.
    My stomach was sore the other day  I think I ate too much. My friends stomach was sore and he had appendicitis. Do we know the precise injury? Until then I have little idea how much pain the man was in, let alone how to type his emotional response.
    Evidently 'we' don't know, I know. It was a stomach upset. Now you know for definite also

    I think your last sentence is too caricature. I can see where Si>Se might not be "team playing"  resistance to others' pressure, perhaps unwillingness to create pressure for the sake of the rest of the team. Maybe these types might look after their own skin more?
    No. ISTp's usually do not make good team players. They march to their own drumbeat. This can get them into difficulties in other fields also, such as the corporate environment. It's not quite accurate to say they look after their own skin more, they quite moralistic, just more concerned with their own morals than others.
    Thats pretty consistent with functional description, but theres another side to the coin. When typing hockey players, Si base was chosen for Gretzky. And its been noted Si-valuing athletes tend to have a good feel of the flow of the game and spot opportunities within this (as opposed to creating them with sheer Se force, changing the flow.) true to this Gretzky is noted for identifying a lot of scoring opportunities for his other offensive teammates and setting up a lot of assists. So in this case his Si helped the team out overall. An Si type might also be less intrinsically greedy about maxing their own stats and more of a team player in that regard as well.
    Who noted this Gretzky person has an Si base?

    Also what you say here, if this ties in with Beckham? .. If he is Si base, how do you explain him having a big picture view of things in his life? And then his public displays of emotion? It doesn't tie in with ISTp, and then not with ISFp either, but it could tie in with INFp.
    What makes your analysis of voice and type any better?
    Mines is based on the work carried out by professional socionists who have viewed thousands of the types, probably most in real life. Yours seems to be based more or less on your maths teacher.

    He almost always talked that way. I knew the guy well because he managed some after-school activities too. It was kind of funny because by visual appearance you could tell he was a tough cookie but the voice was kind of out of place. An ISTj-mixed classmate of mine was pretty similar too, for whatever my words worth.
    No thats interesting. Just remember that people often behave differently when their involved with their work. They gotta be professional when dealing with clients, public and students. Your teacher may behave differently with his friends. Your friend might have been insecure as he's still growing up. To have a correct opinion it's got to be formed on lots of observations, preferrably lots in real life, or you can rely on some things from the established socionists, Ganin, DeLong, Gulenko, for instance.

  30. #30
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    So do I waffle endlessly or do I make it fit at all costs?
    Yes, both.
    How about we just stick to the points? If you had done that instead of telling me my own motives, there would be at least one less point to argue.
    Then make your points clearer with less waffling. The fact that you do not suggests you are not sure of your points, although I'm reasonably sure that isn't the case. It's perhaps more suggestive of some Ti type, maybe even attached with N, but thats another conversation.
    Fair enough. This could have been stated a post earlier though.
    It was, at least pretty much.

    I meant these as two separate possible motivations. The wife as one thing. Then secondly, maybe the increased celebrity these deals feeds his DS function.
    You have failed to explain to me why this is Fe dual seeking.

    Admittedly, my homework is limited to what Ive briefly heard on TV and a few summaries like Wikipedia. But the most significant deals Im seeing occurred in the 2000s, years after he met the wife. So maybe he gets into small deals for pretty leisurely reasons and follows the wifes lead into bigger things.
    Of course, he simply cashed in on his increased stature as a footballer, and the extra publicity from dating a pop star. He was cashing in on what he had before then. This is standard for all soccer players. It is not exclusive to him. You are going on about something every European soccer player does. Perhaps then they are all Fe dual seeking or whatever it is you somehow attach to this.

    You think???
    Yes.
    But some types more so than others. ISFps in particular, having ignored Te and Se, might be expected to forgo wealth for relaxation. If Beckham were obviously wealth-seeking significantly against his comfort elsewhere, that would cast some doubt on alpha values and especially the ISFp.
    People work to put food on their table and keep a roof over their heads. People therefore need to earn money in order to have the things they need to relax. The fact is footballers earn more, but over a shorter period, and as most have a shelf life, they know they have to take it while it's going.

    His wife is far more interested in doing what she does to be a success and admired than he is. It is clear she is the more Se type, using this approach.
    The users Rocky and Gilly seem to have reached that conclusion pretty independently of each other. As a search will reveal, Rocky is pretty seasoned at typing athletes. and Gilly made a lengthy [and imo cogent] post on his observations of Si/Se in athletics where Gretzky he discussed. I also concluded this independently myself.
    Thats fine, but it still doesn't really relate to Beckhams overal persona, and that INFp still remains the best fit.
    If an INFp can indulge in some Si things (like idiosyncrasies about shoes) then maybe an ISFp  with Ni as their role function  could easily communicate some general vision of things. First and foremost he was a sportsman though.
    No it is not. It is a well known fact that INFp's are asthetically pleasing. It is actually uncomfortable for one to use their role function like Beckham must be doing for years. Especially when you take into account that the best interviews with him occur post match, when he is tired and perhaps on the defensive after loosing a match. In these circumstances people always revert to their dominant function, and it's often here we get a better idea what he's about.

    The bolded  I can accept that correction. Occasionally, that may be problematic if the ISTps ethics conflict with the organizations. Otherwise, I still think youre ignoring how ones own drumbeat can help the team out a lot in the right circumstances.
    Maybe, but you need to have a pretty understanding manager for that to occur (and understanding colleagues), as managers want to be the managers. They are paying the wages. You must be the one to accommodate them doing their job.

    Well why cant Beckham have similar professional standards for himself? Or maybe hes not so comfortable dealing with the stage and camera (i bet ethical functions may be just as if not more important than sensing for confidence on camera.)
    It is less likely, as it is the English medias intention to put people under pressure. Interviewing someone after a football match when he hasn't even changed, is much more that scenario than a pre-planned studio, nice suit and relaxed, perhaps even pre-planned questions, as I touched on earlier in this post.

    It was an anecdote. When pressed, I gave yet another anecdote. Mostly to illustrate how this sort of thing might play out. More importantly -- before that, I gave a functional explanation of why creative Se may be more subdued  that itself is the bread and butter of my argument.
    Ok. Nonetheless you did ask the question. I'm a little suprised then as to why.

    In general, creative Se is less subdued than dominant Se, it is also more clumsy. Either way one or two people are irrelevant if you wish to be accurate, which I'm sure we agree on. It is not good practice to compare to a handful of people. If you new of scores of people of the same type, and they were correctly typed, then it would have more weight.

    More importantly, if you are giving him a 'Ti' sub-type, why does he demonstrate poor Ti for instance?
    I thought ISTj was more likely than most other types and so I wanted to keep the door open and see what more discussion might uncover. As it happens, I think ISFp now, although less so because of the discussion and more so because of watching a few more interviews. He really frequently lets the wife handle most things Se, an imbalance even greater than what Id expect in mirrors. (though Im not convinced its weak Se yet  so maybe the 7th function.) and Im not hearing much Ti out of him either.
    It's a bit of a running joke in the UK that his logic is poor.

    Re seventh function Se in ISFp, if memory serves, 'it' enjoys the physical confrontation, and I have to say from watching him play soccer, he's one of the least physically confrontational player I know.

    He's often been not as fit as many of the other players-often demonstrated by not being as fast a runner and tiring easier. He has to watch his fitness does not slack off too much. That may be genetic of course, or it may be related to weak S. He has proved sometimes he can be fitter, so he has shown he's genetically capable ... He struggles to maintain it - it gone up and down in the past.
    I think celebrity typings should not be used in vacuo but are nonetheless important. because short of meeting with proper socionists in person and typing people together, there is a lot of information you cant get out of a theory or a type description that you can out of celebrity multimedia.
    Thing about decent type descriptions tho, is their formed by socionists with the correct credentials, from their personal interaction with at least hundreds of people, just as Ashura developed her interpretation of functions and socionics, from interviewing hundreds of people.

    We seem to be in agreement that the room for error in typing a celebrity is greater than those we have met, or at least someone we can interview ourselves.

    So unless or until we have met hundreds or thousands of people, I think the is empirical data of the good type descriptions must be at least, if not more reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    They're assholes. Well she is definitely, he's sort of OK.
    Speaking of such, do you really think Posh takes it up the bum, as the song says? Do you really think she'd be able to tell Becks no? She does seem like one of those prudes about such things, but, someone who is willing to get a boob job and other glamorous things like that probably doesn't mind tooooo much.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    well, when you see them together she is definitely the dominant one. I imagined victoria was an Ni/Se quadra and that David was the introvert in a dual pair or complimentary pair. He is very..... very submissive in my eyes. I thought INFp was a good type for him. Victoria Vi's to me a little like an Se dominant, but I'm not sure. I was thinking perhaps ESFp because she is famous for never smiling and I think ENFjs smile much more than a person in gamma would. this is weaker, I know. .. well enfjs can be angry but they are much more "showy" with this emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    well, when you see them together she is definitely the dominant one. I imagined victoria was an Ni/Se quadra and that David was the introvert in a dual pair or complimentary pair. He is very..... very submissive in my eyes. I thought INFp was a good type for him. Victoria Vi's to me a little like an Se dominant, but I'm not sure. I was thinking perhaps ESFp because she is famous for never smiling and I think ENFjs smile much more than a person in gamma would. this is weaker, I know. .. well enfjs can be angry but they are much more "showy" with this emotion.
    ENFJ's smile much more?? That's a massive understatement.
    (KRISTIINA)

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    I haven't read this thread because i dont care one bit about either of them. I did see them in an interview once though and Jane is right Beckam was incredibly shy and introverted. Victoria was covering and even talking for him sometimes.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I haven't read this thread because i dont care one bit about either of them. I did see them in an interview once though and Jane is right Beckam was incredibly shy and introverted. Victoria was covering and even talking for him sometimes.
    I think beckam's a frigging metro tosspot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I think I am done with this thread BTW. (take this reply for whatever its worth.) Too time consuming. But Cyclops, whether or not we can agree entirely on the conclusion  I must tip my hat to you for much else.
    I agree with being done on this thread.

    However, fwiw, I think you have made some good points as well, but also I think you've allowed yourself to get too engrossed in certain aspects of the theory, which is why I think it has been a somewhat time consuming on both our parts.

    Your current approach is not necessarily a bad thing, it can at times within certain circumstance be advantageous of course, but it's worth keeping this in mind, not least as it's something INTj 's are prone to do. (yes-i am pretty sure your INTj )

    Overall, it's important to know which parts to focus on when typing and which parts can (if we need to) be looked at later, but I entirely expect that this sort of thing will come to you in time.

    (Your Ti is quite apparent, so apparent I really think it's dominant, you have a style of debating characteristic with INTj's and I can't see your dominant Ti being backed up with Se. I say this as a short summary, if you are still looking to identify your type-you may of course know it, but your signature suggests that you perhaps don't)

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    I am probably the only person who doesn't have a special interest in David Beckham.

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    I think he's INFp and she's ESTp.
    fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    I am probably the only person who doesn't have a special interest in David Beckham.
    -_- not true
    INTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    No offense, but is this an opinion or do you have any evidence to back this up?

    For instance, I've provided plenty to show why he isn't ISTj
    Over the last ten years or so, I've been close to a few people definitely of the same type as he. They test as ISTJs, vi like ISTjs on many standard socionics sites; fit the profiles; they also fit the MBTI profiles perfectly; the functional analysis makes sense for them (eg Ni HA, Fe POLR, etc.). And I've compared their relations to people of many other types and seen intertype relations affirmed (eg, they warm up to and need Fe, especially from beta NFs). Then contrasted with ISTps I've known. The specific reasons why I say ISTj are far, far too many to list here. The task to do so feels overwhelming. But, a few remarks:

    This is the type of individual who generally aims to be polite and inclined toward proper behavior and etiquette when interacting with others, sometimes to a point of extreme formality and genteelism. Yet, they are ever-willing and sometimes, eager, to receive the Mentor guidance of a "Dear Abby"-ish ENFj who always has advice on how to improve such things. (Advice from any other source is typically treated as suspect.) To imply that one may somehow be falling short of their parental responsibilities, for example, can be a horrifying insult to them. At the same time, it can be easy for this type to get so locked into their daily duties that, to many types, they may appear to neglect any special, out-of-the-ordinary nurturing for their relationships.

    They are strong-willed and sober-minded individuals. The first hint of any emotionality from them is probably a flare-up of anger. Tears in the average type are extremely rare. You will much sooner see strength and aggression in the face of adversity from them than any passivity or giving in.

    Their primary orientation in daily existence: meeting their (logical) obligations. In professional environments, these are the quiet "yes men" who may appear to bend over backwards to get the job done right by perfecting their methodology and following the rules to a T. And they are most chagrined when others find ways to circumvent practical procedures which, to them, is clearly the law. Although it may seem they even take on too many tasks, their hard work and perserverance usually pays off; employers are typically fond of their reverance for the company's logical prcedures and politics, and proven achievements, so as to promote them and reward them with good salaries. This type works hard, but in time, usually has the means within them to provide well for themselves and their families per the typical employment norms within society. It is not so much that they are capable of workaholism, so much as a highly strong dedication toward their role(s).

    Details regarding their work tends to be a favorite topical theme of their conversations.

    It is common for these types to gravitate toward methodical, procedural/administrative, detailed-oriented work that is behind-the-scenes. The type is often gratified by the concept of reaching a level of professional achievement and acknowledgement of their abilities such that they have been given the task of now teaching their skilled information to a group. This sort of prospect (as an indavertant admiration of their dual's typical strengths) can inspire and gratify them. While the idea of having a few employees report to them seem personally appealing, their are typically not managerial types. They have genuine little interest in overtly directing and managing the activities of others. It is more natural for the to verbally pass judgment instead on the quality of others' performance. They might feel themselves to be a natural gauge as such in their work environments.

    In their private lives, their outward personas can change appear to radically, as they go from the business-suit-and-tie professionalism to now, a charming character who indeed does not seem to let member(s) of the opposite go unnoticed. In their minds, it is quite clear when they're around coworkers and superiors IN the office, versus AFTER working hours at an after-party. Their appreciation for beta NF whimsy and nonsensical imaginations MAY even manifest - however, they are mostly the receivers and happy spectators, not the generators of such nonsensical humor. A good example of their humor style: The Adventure of Baron Munchausen. Yet, even during these personal hours, they remain gentle(wo)men, ever displaying a strong degree of restraint in their relations, as well as an ongoing awareness of every individual's social role and how this impacts any immediate situation.

    Complaints, depending on the individual's life circumstances, may include: not feeling close to others and part of the group (esp. if they've let themselves become very unhappy and isolated). This occurs if they're not receiving frequent doses of emotionally expressive contacts (eg, expressions such as frequent phone calls, cards, etc.) and do not feel experience regular comradery of some kind.

    They are the quickest to point out when someone has performed a task incorrectly, but if it is a direct confrontation it is "taught" to the other person in a most respectful way. If they're on the phone with a friend after work, however, they will freely express their anger and anxiety over such-and-such tasks which were mishandled in the office, etc.

    Dual-affirming behavior: if they wish to express affection for a loved one, it is through the accomplishment of regular tasks and chores. If they are feeling especially inspired, they will compliment their loved one on their own performance of such a task with a lighthearted, "good job!" in a way which some types may receive as puzzling, obvious, or parental. However, their dual will warm up to this positive affirmation. ISTjs need a lot of positive affirmation and recognition themselves.

    Their sexual drives are, on average, somewhat low. In good health, they have a good amount of energy. Some may take a particularly strong interest in adventures such as surfing, skiiing, hiking, or rafting. If so, they may pursue one or two of interest several times a year, taking careful preplanned trips. The courageous ESTps can especially make great companions for them on these occasions, as the two go off to face their new adventure of skill and conquest. Thoroughly planning and organizing such events for small groups of comrades can feel particularly.

    This type may have a special "psychological" issue regarding religion, belief systems, or general matters of faith. They may greatly admire persons who have some type of strong faith, and wish to establish their own, yet continually find it difficult to do so, as they are still seeking logical reasoning to base it on to begin with (or so it appears).

    If someone (preferably a beta NF) creates an emotional scene of some kind, the ISTj's attention is grabbed and they exhibit a sincere concern for the situation, and (usually) sympathy for the one undergoing distress.

    These are the people who, on average, appear as the dutiful, stuffed shirts who will meticulously iron their clothes before work every day and strive to act proper in all circumstances (yet commonly missing true empathy and understanding completely). They can be delightful people to be around, for certain - however, I've had my share of clashes with them, too.

    I could go on, but since you asked - these are just a few remarks based on many observations over time. I've seen this type often have their instinctive attractions and closest relationships with other betas (ESTp, INFp, ENFj) (and the reverse as well).

    So there. A few thoughts. I have often considered whether this type I have described may in fact be an ESTj-Si, an ISTp, or even ESTp - or even ISFj. But upon consideration of the observations I've made of these and other types, and relations, and profile standards, I am content with my instincts of what an ISTj is, for now. (I have a lot more reasons and observations inside me than expressed here.)

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