Udp

[Ezra]

I think it's about time to discuss UDP's type. The poll is there for archival reasons; I'm interested in getting a general consensus on whether or not he is an LSE at this time.

Personally, I'm beginning to accept it, despite the barrier of opposition he received last year as he changed from LII to LSE. Thus far, despite his highly questionable methods of reasoning, I've seen nothing that plays contrary to LSE.

I'm interested to see detailed cases for or against LSE (or another type, particularly LII) from those who are interested in UDP's case. Those who aren't, speak by all means; doesn't mean you'll be acknowledged though. But do vote; everyone's vote counts here, and I like big numbers for big issues. Even if you're not willing to contribute a case for a type, still vote.

ETA: apologies, UDP. Fucking forum rules don't allow all caps for your name.

[cracka]

I think it's about time to discuss UDP's type.

So, why's that your decision to make?

[implied]

@ifmd95 - why EJ temperament?

i can see why Ti base would be a little shakey for UDP though, heh. i do think he apparently needs or expects people to be largely more "consistent" in behavior than most. i'm not sure but i'm slowly sort of wondering if this isn't some delta ST thing i'm entirely unaware of existing. i think maybe a rational dual is what is needed, though, at any rate.

i'm curious. and i agree that the superhero business + going on about spiritual matters/making ethical "codes" or whatever doesn't strike me as particularly ESTj either. and the general focus on being a leader/in a position of leadership (there was indeed a period where UDP discussed this a lot, as i recall) doesn't really jive well with what i think delta is generally like.

i'm still open to the idea that he could possibly be ESTj, it just doesn't really strike me as likely. i'll use the argument that if he happens to be ESTj, then i really just need to expand my understanding of what ESTjs are typically like.

[xyz]

UDP is prolly an LSE. He's still a douchebag though.

[implied]

UDP is prolly an LSE. He's still a douchebag though.

yeah, perhaps i haven't run across enough LSE douchebags. i'd also point out that he seems highly ascetic, whatever his type is. at the present time i don't really see delta as a quadra of excess but nor do i see it as being a quadra which bases itself on self-denial, either.

could you post some pictures again, UDP?

[anndelise]

I'm posting this only because someone else had PM'd something to me and since I was already signed in, might as well make use of it to catch up, etc.

There's a bit of a difference between the UDP we see on the forum and the one that shows throw in his blog/IMs. (most people ARE different between forum vs blog, IM, in person)

The one on the forum comes out seeming like JP with slow moving IJ energy and T base, difficult to distinguish if TS or TN.

His blog on the other hand shows J base P creative with quite a lot of energy, much like EJ energy, as well as Te base, strength, and value and a TS attitude.

IM shows someone who's a bit unsure regarding Fi when he's consciously thinking about it, but a value and subconscious strength when he's NOT over-thinking it. ("subconscious strength" does not mean "socionics 'strong' ") Meaning that it guides him subconsciously, but trips him up when he's consciously thinking about it. IM also suggests an awareness of, but difficulty dealing with, Fe types. It's easy for me to see Fe role coming from that.

Without actually interacting with him in person, I'm unable to tell for sure of Si or Ni.


In summary, without having read his blog, TS would be the most likely choice, with TiSe being a valid option. After having read his blog and IM'd with him for a few months now, TeXi (with TS slightly over TN) is the more obvious choice.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I see no reason to doubt your self typing UDP. And on the whole I don't see anything here which couldn't be tied in with LSE.

I also don't see what relevance voting has to his typing: wether we confirm it or otherwise

[implied]

I think it's about time to discuss UDP's type. The poll is there for archival reasons; I'm interested in getting a general consensus on whether or not he is an LSE at this time.

Personally, I'm beginning to accept it, despite the barrier of opposition he received last year as he changed from LII to LSE. Thus far, despite his highly questionable methods of reasoning, I've seen nothing that plays contrary to LSE.

I'm interested to see detailed cases for or against LSE (or another type, particularly LII) from those who are interested in UDP's case. Those who aren't, speak by all means; doesn't mean you'll be acknowledged though. But do vote; everyone's vote counts here, and I like big numbers for big issues. Even if you're not willing to contribute a case for a type, still vote.

ETA: apologies, UDP. Fucking forum rules don't allow all caps for your name.

do you still believe that you and UDP are the same type/quadra/whatever?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

do you still believe that you and UDP are the same type/quadra/whatever?

Ezra currently types himself ESTp as per his signature. This is a different quadra than ESTj or INTj. As per Ezra's post, he's starting to believe UDP is ESTj.

[Creepy-bg]

I like UDP too much to participate in this... if he wants to discuss his type, he'll make a thread to discuss his type.

[implied]

Ezra currently types himself ESTp as per his signature. This is a different quadra than ESTj or INTj. As per Ezra's post, he's starting to believe UDP is ESTj.

ezra's opinion on his own type changes pretty frequently, as per the most recent posts where he decided he was a Fi-valuer and that, by his estimates, ISFp would be his least likely dual and most likely conflictor. hence my reason for asking. but thank you for pointing out the obvious.

[Ezra]

do you still believe that you and UDP are the same type/quadra/whatever?

I think it's possible, but there is so much I have to learn about people. I'm getting the what-you-thought-you-once-knew-you-actually-have-no-fucking-clue-about syndrome.

[implied]

I think it's possible, but there is so much I have to learn about people. I'm getting the what-you-thought-you-once-knew-you-actually-have-no-fucking-clue-about syndrome.

okay, i was curious, because i know at one point you thought the two of you could be something like mirrors or identicals. or that you two shared some functions.

[ScarlettLux]

I think it's possible, but there is so much I have to learn about people. I'm getting the what-you-thought-you-once-knew-you-actually-have-no-fucking-clue-about syndrome.

It's spreading like a pandemic!

[marooned]

I think it's possible, but there is so much I have to learn about people. I'm getting the what-you-thought-you-once-knew-you-actually-have-no-fucking-clue-about syndrome.

It's spreading like a pandemic!

This is how I feel a lot of the time about anyone's type...

[Creepy-Cyclops]

ezra's opinion on his own type changes pretty frequently, as per the most recent posts where he decided he was a Fi-valuer and that, by his estimates, ISFp would be his least likely dual and most likely conflictor. hence my reason for asking. but thank you for pointing out the obvious.

I dont quite know what you mean by Fi valueing, it seems like a vague terminology as it could refer to an IE as function in a lot of positions. However your sarcasm is noted.

[implied]

I dont quite know what you mean by Fi valueing, it seems like a vague terminology as it could refer to an IE as function in a lot of positions. However your sarcasm is noted.

let me make it more clear. ezra decided that he was ENTj in a most recent thread, which is a type which is in the gamma quadra, which is a quadra that values (as in Fi, as in introverted feeling.) i don't see what's wrong about asking ezra if his current opinion is in line with his signature. i get the idea that, although it may not be correct, unlike dee he doesn't change his signature to reflect his current thoughts on his own type every single time he changes his mind.

[Joy]

I don't think UDP is a douchebag by my means, but I don't think he's LSE, either. (Perhaps I've run across too many LSE douchebags? )

I simply do not see any evidence of unvalued Ni/Se, much less a Ni PoLR.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't think UDP is a douchebag by my means, but I don't think he's LSE, either. (Perhaps I've run across too many LSE douchebags? )

I simply do not see any evidence of unvalued Ni/Se, much less a Ni PoLR.

Why would not having evidence of this mean that he's not LSE, maybe he just hasn't provided it. I don't recall him disucssing things in past or future contexts, he seems more with the present, which if going by information aspect, would suggest Ni is not a priority for him.

He seems an opinionated, busy and an efficient person, with an ethical base (he's certainly not one for liars, which is very LSE) Do you think this sort of behaviour isn't that of an LSE?

[implied]

I don't think UDP is a douchebag by my means, but I don't think he's LSE, either. (Perhaps I've run across too many LSE douchebags? )

I simply do not see any evidence of unvalued Ni/Se, much less a Ni PoLR.

i pretty much agree with you. have you really run across that many LSE douchebags?

[Joy]

Why would not having evidence of this mean that he's not LSE, maybe he just hasn't provided it. I don't recall him disucssing things in past or future contexts, he seems more with the present, which if going by information aspect, would suggest Ni is not a priority for him.

He seems an opinionated, busy and an efficient person, with an ethical base (he's certainly not one for liars, which is very LSE) Do you think this sort of behaviour isn't that of an LSE?

I think we're caught up in too many double negatives here. Or something.

Anyways, Ni PoLR's tend to stick out to me when I'm interacting with ESxj's. Maybe I just don't know him well enough, but from the conversations I've had with him he's seemed to value Ni input.

If you think he has an ethical base, why would you think he's LSE? Unless you meant that you think he values Fi, and if that's that case, it would be a good idea to just say that (Alpha and Beta have ethical values as well).

[Joy]

i pretty much agree with you. have you really run across that many LSE douchebags?

Probably less than half a dozen or so, and only a few of those were serious douchebags, but I didn't particularly get along with any of them.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think we're caught up in too many double negatives here. Or something.

Anyways, Ni PoLR's tend to stick out to me when I'm interacting with ESxj's. Maybe I just don't know him well enough, but from the conversations I've had with him he's seemed to value Ni input.

If you think he has an ethical base, why would you think he's LSE? Unless you meant that you think he values Fi, and if that's that case, it would be a good idea to just say that (Alpha and Beta have ethical values as well).

Sorry, when I said ethical base I didn't mean he was dominant F (forgetting the terminologies don't cross over ) What I meant was that from what I've read of what he's said, he's not got time for liars, or deceptors (not decepticons from transformers...I mean more like deceivers haha ) and he wants people to tell the truth, and for him to do likewise.

Thats the sort of thing I've noticed in ESTj's, and also that they don't make particularly good liars themselves, so tend to come across as honest people (I don't know about his lying skills of course, but I thought I would add that part in as I think it sort of applies)

[Joy]

Sorry, when I said ethical base I didn't mean he was dominant F (forgetting the terminologies don't cross over ) What I meant was that from what I've read of what he's said, he's not got time for liars, or deceptors (not decepticons from transformers...I mean more like deceivers haha ) and he wants people to tell the truth, and for him to do likewise.

Thats the sort of thing I've noticed in ESTj's, and also that they don't make particularly good liars themselves, so tend to come across as honest people (I don't know about his lying skills of course, but I thought I would add that part in as I think it sort of applies)

I tend to think these are more individual things than type related things. I've certainly known an LSE liar (pretty bad, actually). And I know an SLE who wouldn't lie to save her life.

[munenori2]

And I know an SLE who wouldn't lie to save her life.

Yo momma!

[implied]

I tend to think these are more individual things than type related things. I've certainly known an LSE liar (pretty bad, actually). And I know an SLE who wouldn't lie to save her life.

same. by that criteria, i'm ESTj as well!

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I tend to think these are more individual things than type related things. I've certainly known an LSE liar (pretty bad, actually). And I know an SLE who wouldn't lie to save her life.

Well, as I said, LSE's don't make good liars, which sounds like the LSE that you've known. I don't think its an individual preference here, some people are good liars, but choose not to.

In regards to the honesty thing, here's a quote, which is from type description of ESTj by Gulenko

LSE find it difficult to cheat making it easy to catch them out and as a result they generally have an honest reputation. ESTjs do not stand for lies forgery and fraud. They do not like shallow, frivolous or thoughtless people. They also observe customs.

How does this not tie in with ESTj being honest, straightfoward people who prefer not to lie?

[xyz]

I think it's possible, but there is so much I have to learn about people. I'm getting the what-you-thought-you-once-knew-you-actually-have-no-fucking-clue-about syndrome.

I think this is a common result of "thinking about it too much", or "expecting humans to behave to rigid definitions 100% of the time"

[aestrivex]

recent conversations with UDP have led me to be absolutely confused. trying to engage him in a conversation about Fi is extremely difficult and leads me to wonder about why an LSE would act like that, but talking to him about other things leads me to see an Si focus, an overall lack of interest in Ni, and -- though this is mostly by his own account, as its hard to engage him in any emotionally-based conversation, a very minimal apparent interest in Fe. the latter could conceivably be staged due to lack of understanding what Fe really is, but i tend to doubt it.

[implied]

recent conversations with UDP have led me to be absolutely confused. trying to engage him in a conversation about Fi is extremely difficult and leads me to wonder about why an LSE would act like that, but talking to him about other things leads me to see an Si focus, an overall lack of interest in Ni, and -- though this is mostly by his own account, as its hard to engage him in any emotionally-based conversation, a very minimal apparent interest in Fe. the latter could conceivably be staged due to lack of understanding what Fe really is, but i tend to doubt it.

would you extrapolate a little bit? i find it hard to believe him anymore as he's changed his mind so many times about "who he is" that i doubt that there's any way of gleaning a straight story from UDP about "who UDP is." it's a lot like ezra.

[Mediator Kam]

UDP usually has a hard time understanding my Fe jokes and sentence structure, so Fe role makes sense to me. Always talking about bettering himself is Si to me. Some things he has told me about the future suggest a defenite unvalued Ni, which is more extreme than my own.

I talk to him tons about spirituality and working on toning down sexual references to women. From what I can see, he seeks explanations in both these fields and enjoys extrapolating on available information in these fields. Fi imo.

Overall, I believe that ESTj makes the most sense for him.

[aestrivex]

would you extrapolate a little bit? i find it hard to believe him anymore as he's changed his mind so many times about "who he is" that i doubt that there's any way of gleaning a straight story from UDP about "who UDP is." it's a lot like ezra.

well, that's a large part of why i didn't come out of it feeling very confident for or against LSE. obviously, if UDP says "i use a lot of Si" without backing that up, i'll just ignore it. i was more asking him to talk about himself rather than asking him any kind of specific questions.

what i got out of him was that: he's takes a very rationalistic approach to everything he does and he doesn't socialize much nor does he appear to see the value in doing so. problems motivating himself are an absolute non-issue and he doesn't like focusing on the bigger picture, or if he does, he doesn't like thinking about it too much. he says he's not interested in motivating people and doesn't know why people need to be motivated in order to complete tasks.

seems to always need to be active; he talked about the summer where he did nothing and hated it. certainly much more active than i am.

also talked about the importance of keeping his environment clean, which seemed to be motivated more by Si than Se, by my estimation.


everything seemed to point to LSE as a possibility (although most of it doesn't preclude LSI; LSE just fits better). then there was the Fi thing, in which he absolutely, pointedly, was not able to discuss his personal relationships in any meaningful fashion, which made me seriously wonder how Fi DS is possible.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

UDP usually has a hard understand my Fe jokes and sentence structure, so Fe role makes sense to me. Always talking about bettering himself is Si to me. Some things he has told me about the future suggest a defenite unvalued Ni, which is more extreme than my own.

I talk to him tons about spirituality and working on toning down sexual references to women. From what I can see, he seeks explanations in both these fields and enjoys extrapolating on available information in these fields. Fi imo.

Overall, I believe that ESTj makes the most sense for him.

I agree. ESTj is the best type fit.

Some of the replies doubting his 'ESTj'-ness are actually in support of it.

[implied]

I agree. ESTj is the best type fit.

Some of the replies doubting his 'ESTj'-ness are actually in support of it.

extrapolate please.

[Mediator Kam]

then there was the Fi thing, in which he absolutely, pointedly, was not able to discuss his personal relationships in any meaningful fashion, which made me seriously wonder how Fi DS is possible.

I have never had that problem with him. He might not openly reveal his personal life or even explain it very well when you do ask him, but when I did ask him a bit about his personal life, he explains it. Sometimes he comes out and discusses conversation with his dual in detail.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

everything seemed to point to LSE as a possibility (although most of it doesn't preclude LSI; LSE just fits better). then there was the Fi thing, in which he absolutely, pointedly, was not able to discuss his personal relationships in any meaningful fashion, which made me seriously wonder how Fi DS is possible.

Perhaps this is because he is seeking guidance in that matter, as would be expected for the dual seeking function. It suggests that he's looking to get some Fi influx.. He's accepting it, not producing it.

[implied]

UDP usually has a hard time understanding my Fe jokes and sentence structure, so Fe role makes sense to me. Always talking about bettering himself is Si to me. Some things he has told me about the future suggest a defenite unvalued Ni, which is more extreme than my own.

I talk to him tons about spirituality and working on toning down sexual references to women. From what I can see, he seeks explanations in both these fields and enjoys extrapolating on available information in these fields. Fi imo.

Overall, I believe that ESTj makes the most sense for him.

well, taking a cyclops-esque approach, there are also several ESTj descriptions which describe them as having really good manners, acting "gentlemanly" which would probably not include referring to women in an overtly sexual fashion or having to be repeatedly prompted to do this. that just seems like bad form, but probably not really what i expect from Te-EJ either. for example, i can barely imagine expat having issues with this.

[marooned]

then there was the Fi thing, in which he absolutely, pointedly, was not able to discuss his personal relationships in any meaningful fashion, which made me seriously wonder how Fi DS is possible.

Maybe he wasn't comfortable talking about it... I don't see why that would rule out Fi dual-seeking?

[ScarlettLux]

We get along pretty well, contrary what you guys might believe based on our interaction in the forum, lol.