SLE/ESTp: observer or dominator social roles and getting cold shoulder

[Ezra]

I'm finding I'm getting a lot of the cold shoulder, especially from members of other quadras, and from those who are particularly averse to me, in any given social situation. I'll often try to ease it and take a step back from domination of the conversation, but I still feel like people are threatened by me. I have two social modes: observer and dominator. It's really difficult for me to find a balance between the two; I have to control myself a lot, and it's straining. It's far more natural to either take a back seat or go full on - on or off. So when I'm off, people find me boring. When I'm on, people find me to be "too much"; someone they need to get away from. I suppose I'm getting better at finding a balance, but it's still a struggle. My natural atmosphere I'll rarely find and be content with.

Is this particularly evident in you (if you are an SLE) or people you know to be SLEs?

[olduser]

I don't have this problem, and neither do any of the SLEs I know.

I think part of it is that you need to get rid of the whole "Rar I'm a tuff guy see me dominate" mindset. Nobody likes to hang out with someone who dominates every conversation and thinks that this makes them likable. I don't think you're intimidating them per se, but more that they find it annoying when you take on that role. Basically, a good rule to follow is that you shouldn't take on the attitude of the "dominat0r tuff guy" unless you're playing rugby or someone pulls a knife on you. If I were you, I'd think up of ways to be interesting without being aggressive. It worked for me and it should work for you to if you work at it a bit.

good advice. not that i doubt your situation ezra, but perhaps stop thinking about your relations to others and the power struggle and focus on saying what you think regardless of others and their reactions.

[zenbrat]

Everybody seems to love SLE's. I can't think of one that I dislike. Some can be a bit hyper & sarcastic, which may put off quieter types, but it's still just good-natured, all-out, playful aggression. Kinda like an overzealous puppy, even when being "tough" with someone .

Maybe you're ENTp? Here's a post from one who describes the same thing --> http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/member.php?u=369

I know a guy (whom I now suspect is ENTp) who feels like people don't really like him either, no matter how he tries to be "nice", inclusive, engaging, and "socially receptive". In the background, we all think he's "ok" but he tries too hard to be something and puts people off by being too... resistant. He's a bit caustic, sneering and condescendingly aggressive when people disagree with him or fail to recognize his superiority [complex]... which sorta explains the reaction from others.

This dude automatically assumes rejection, feels victimized/disliked and compelled to appear tough/cool/aggressive so people won't openly make fun of him - he couldn't handle it. It's effective - hardly anyone ever says "hey, you're being a jerk" to his face. I do, but as tactfully as possible (and we only get along when I don't point out that he's being a jerk). To me, it seems like everyone else just tolerates this behavior, moves out of his way, and prefers to stay silent to avoid his backlash. So, we try to understand that this is just him, and he needs friends like everybody else. Take the good with the bad I suppose.

I'd say, just relax. Hang back. Respond naturally. Relate openly. If that natural state puts people off, well, then you're weeding out the incompatible factions in your environment.

[UDP]

I'm finding I'm getting a lot of the cold shoulder, especially from members of other quadras, and from those who are particularly averse to me, in any given social situation. I'll often try to ease it and take a step back from domination of the conversation, but I still feel like people are threatened by me. I have two social modes: observer and dominator. It's really difficult for me to find a balance between the two; I have to control myself a lot, and it's straining. It's far more natural to either take a back seat or go full on - on or off. So when I'm off, people find me boring. When I'm on, people find me to be "too much"; someone they need to get away from. I suppose I'm getting better at finding a balance, but it's still a struggle. My natural atmosphere I'll rarely find and be content with.

Is this particularly evident in you (if you are an SLE) or people you know to be SLEs?

I related to the bolded very much.
Though probably not in the same way you meant it, I have a very strong switch, and I am either totally immersed in the situation and dictating things - how I am in many meetings, influencing and moving things along. Or I am just on the outside, watching.


The main factor seems to be just how well I know the situation, and what is going on. The more I know the more active I am in facilitating, otherwise, I don't care or I am learning, depending on its utility.


It can be a struggle at times. If you yourself are E8, remember that they grow into E2, so, being aware of other people's needs and stuff come into play.


I imagine being an irrational EP type though, it is more a matter of your "internal state", that is, sometimes you're just feeling it- being more dominant. Other things not so much. But trying to find a middle ground there can be difficult too.

[FDG]

You should both learn being civil. It's easy enough, really.

[Kristiina]

I also identify with the two modes: too much or too little. I'm afraid of having a strong linear inconsiderate EJ attitude. I hate other people for their EJ traits, so I try not to be like that.

I've also noticed that ESTps tend to be too much for people of other quadras. That's because they talk about things (problems, etc), but never listen to any advice. Some ESTps are too much all the time and everyone loves them for it. Like this one ESTp who has SO much energy. He's always teasing people and making stupid half-personal jokes. But people know this and they don't take his comments seriously. Every once in a while when you're alone with him, he becomes very wise and considerate. It's very odd. He doesn't make any such jokes in a private conversation. He gives genuine advice and he is very easy to talk to. He never repeats it in public.

It is extremely annoying when people are very dominant in the me-me-me mode. But it's called "being very energetic" when you include other people. When you feel becoming too energetic in a group situation, talk about what other people do and like. They will apprechiate the energetic interest in them. (PFFFFF one ESTj goes into energetic me-me-me mode to talk about her granny's cat for ten minutes without letting me add any ideas to the conversation!)

[Mariano Rajoy]

dominat0r

lol

[aka-kitsune]

Something about you, Ezra, that always reminds me of a guy I was once involved with that I'd venture was an ESTp. Life of the party when he wanted to be (er... but that might've been the alcoholism), observant, clever and intelligent, but didn't want to bother being "intellectual". He also had this interesting chivalric side about him that contrasted sharply with a very often abrasive personality.

People used to have reactions to him, usually varying between the enthusiastic, "Hey, he's really entertaining!" and the disgruntled, "Geez, he's a total asshole!". He did sort of range between extremes most of the time. On and "in your face" or off and in vigilant mode.

Generally, though people would be put off by his domineering; he even got fired from his job for being difficult and unapproachable. It seemed like he was defensive quite a lot and provoked unconscious reactions from people who found him overbearing.

Psychologically, I'd say it sounds like you're uncomfortable unless you're controlling the situation, by either passively monitoring or actively commanding. Probably just immaturity, inexperience. Of course, most social situations are give-and-take. Charm helps immensely. If you can't finesse a conversation, many people will be put off if you're too domineering. Argumentative, inflexible, haughty, overly caustic or critical will usually get you the cold shoulder from most people, no matter why type you are.

Don't approach every conversation as a point you have to drive home, or a small country you have to conquer. Think of it as a mutual exchange.

[Ezra]

I think part of it is that you need to get rid of the whole "Rar I'm a tuff guy see me dominate" mindset. Nobody likes to hang out with someone who dominates every conversation and thinks that this makes them likable. I don't think you're intimidating them per se, but more that they find it annoying when you take on that role. Basically, a good rule to follow is that you shouldn't take on the attitude of the "dominat0r tuff guy" unless you're playing rugby or someone pulls a knife on you. If I were you, I'd think up of ways to be interesting without being aggressive. It worked for me and it should work for you to if you work at it a bit.

Herzy, you talk as if I actually seek to dominate; as if it doesn't come naturally to me. I wouldn't be complaining if I could switch it off in an instant. The problem is that my nature conflicts with everyone else's. I'm too loud, too confrontational, too much for anyone around me.

good advice. not that i doubt your situation ezra, but perhaps stop thinking about your relations to others and the power struggle and focus on saying what you think regardless of others and their reactions.

But that is my problem. I do say what I think regardless. That's not a good thing. It's completely inconsiderate.

You should both learn being civil. It's easy enough, really.

Yeah, for a Seven.

Something about you, Ezra, that always reminds me of a guy I was once involved with that I'd venture was an ESTp. Life of the party when he wanted to be (er... but that might've been the alcoholism), observant, clever and intelligent, but didn't want to bother being "intellectual". He also had this interesting chivalric side about him that contrasted sharply with a very often abrasive personality.

People used to have reactions to him, usually varying between the enthusiastic, "Hey, he's really entertaining!" and the disgruntled, "Geez, he's a total asshole!". He did sort of range between extremes most of the time. On and "in your face" or off and in vigilant mode.

Generally, though people would be put off by his domineering; he even got fired from his job for being difficult and unapproachable. It seemed like he was defensive quite a lot and provoked unconscious reactions from people who found him overbearing.

Psychologically, I'd say it sounds like you're uncomfortable unless you're controlling the situation, by either passively monitoring or actively commanding. Probably just immaturity, inexperience. Of course, most social situations are give-and-take. Charm helps immensely. If you can't finesse a conversation, many people will be put off if you're too domineering. Argumentative, inflexible, haughty, overly caustic or critical will usually get you the cold shoulder from most people, no matter why type you are.

Don't approach every conversation as a point you have to drive home, or a small country you have to conquer. Think of it as a mutual exchange.

The thing is, I'm not even that domineering in social situations around people I don't know, or know only vaguely, or those who I'd consider to be 'acquaintances'. It's when I'm around my family and those closest to me. That's when it starts to get a bit heated. I can't satellite around my family. I just can't do it. It's so straining to do this.

[Blaze]

ezra: face it like it or not you are ETP...learn it live it love it. lol

you go through enough consequences with your Fi polr and you'll learn it. oh boy will you learn it.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think part of it is that you need to get rid of the whole "Rar I'm a tuff guy see me dominate" mindset. Nobody likes to hang out with someone who dominates every conversation and thinks that this makes them likable. I don't think you're intimidating them per se, but more that they find it annoying when you take on that role. Basically, a good rule to follow is that you shouldn't take on the attitude of the "dominat0r tuff guy" unless you're playing rugby or someone pulls a knife on you. If I were you, I'd think up of ways to be interesting without being aggressive. It worked for me and it should work for you to if you work at it a bit.

+1. Seriously, great post.

Guys have it tough though since if you aren't this way, you will get bullied until about your senior year in high school when guys mature or when you head off to college and boys don't mind that you're submissive because they want to all of a sudden experiment on you sexually now.

Or put it this way, just cause something is hot in porn and is fun to jerk off too doesn't mean it works well in real life. So many guys need to get that! It's a FANTASY people.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Herzy, you talk as if I actually seek to dominate; as if it doesn't come naturally to me. I wouldn't be complaining if I could switch it off in an instant. The problem is that my nature conflicts with everyone else's. I'm too loud, too confrontational, too much for anyone around me.

Bend over. You're going to get on your knees, and go in that corner- and I'm going to fuck you in the ass right now. Do it.

[JRiddy]

I'm ILE, so I have the same PoLR as SLEs (). Being largely unaware of how people feel about you is par for the course, I'm afraid. I too, will tend to dominate or do nothing, although my "domination" is always a very abstract kind of thing, whereby I try to prove that my ideas kick ass compared to everyone else's.

My brother is an SLE and people tend to see him as domineering most of the time. Even when he's "relaxed", he's studying everything around him to look for weaknesses to exploit.

[FDG]

My brother is an SLE and people tend to see him as domineering most of the time. Even when he's "relaxed", he's studying everything around him to look for weaknesses to exploit.

Sounds like an hard life!

[UDP]

Sounds like he's insecure.

[Ezra]

Sounds like he's insecure.

How?

[Mea]

uhh. Ezra, perhaps you're over-thinking it? like in your eyes, it may be exaggerated?
i have a neighbor whom i'm pretty close with, and he's SLE.
he can be pretty quiet at times, and dominate conversations at others, but it's never extreme.

i dunno, does EVERYONE around you dislike this aspect of you? It could be just that group of friends right? if so, what about... not speaking so soon so you'll appear less confrontational, like if there's no point in saying something, don't...?

[Ezra]

Rethinking on this. It's an expression; a release of energy, as opposed to the actual content.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Ezra, do the world a favor and stop posting your bullshit. You are not a dominating male asshole and you never will be. They're upset with you because you're trying to be somebody you're not. Anybody that participates in an online message board is naturally a subordinate male.

You're just feeding your ego when you think people are upset at you because you seem to be some macho jerk. NO - we're mad at you that due to your own insecurities, you think you're this tough dominating guy when you're clearly and most obviously not. I don't know what poor male role model bullied you into thinking you have to act that way, but whoever they were- they were an ass, and I feel sorry for you for listening to them. What the hell is it man? Why does it give you such a rush pretending to be this way?

How many real friendships/real girlfriends have you had Ezra? You come across as an insecure boy that hasn't had much experience in anything to tell you the blunt truth.