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Thread: Dualities: Dependence, Manipulation, and Deception- Oh My!

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    Default Dualities: Dependence, Manipulation, and Deception- Oh My!

    I was just thinking about how in duality relations we rely on our dual's strong functions to guide and help us cope with our weak functions- to the point where we may become dependent on our dual. IMO, this seems like a potential area of manipulation on our dual's part seeing as we kinda just take our dual's word for it- i mean, it makes sense right? We both value the same functions while devaluing the same functions, and even though our dual is competent at our valued and unvalued, weak functions, they choose to predominantly use our weak, valued functions- making us feel as if our dual's preferences were done just for us- how lucky we are! With our duals we get the feeling of playing for the same team, being on the same wavelength, being counterpoints, the yin to our yang, etc.- so of course we should trust their guidance of our weak points... right? I mean, they benefit from us in the same way that we benefit from them after all! My argument is that even though dualities can be amazing relationships, perhaps we should still concentrate on developing our weak functions so as to not completely rely on our dual for everything we suck at.

    I'm reminded of the meeting in Boston and Rick's retelling of Hitler (EIE) and Stalin's (LSI) non-aggression pact during WW2 where Stalin became so enamoured with Hitler and his seeming loyalty to their pact, that Stalin returned to the Soviet Union praising Hitler and the strength of their bond. However, when Hitler broke this pact and invaded the Soviet Union, Stalin was left embarrassed and broken.

    This example to me seems as if Hitler used his strong to charm Stalin and reel him in by exploiting Stalin's dual-seeking function. Stalin felt assured by Hitler, and because he himself was not adept at and thus did not read between the lines, and was too caught up in the promise and excitement over meeting his dual- the person he thought he could depend on- Stalin ended up getting royally screwed.

    That's an extreme example, but has a dual ever screwed u over? What do you think of this concept? What is the probability of such deception of a dual occurring? In what situations would this most and least likely occur? Do you think there are some duals that would be more likely for this to occur between then other duals?

    BTW, sorry for shitting on anyone's idealized conceptualization of duality relations haha.
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    @ the Live and the Let..

    Anyone can screw you over, dual or otherwise, although I do like to think it's less likely, at least in part for the reasons you have given. In regards your example, it's quite possible that Hitler saw the prize of the Soviet Union as more important than getting on with a dual.

    Maybe if Stalin had been of opposite sex then there could be physical and mental attraction there also. Infact it's rumoured Hitler had a long term affair with his female personal secretary. She was quiet, well organised, didn't take nonesense..infact it's quite possible she was LSI and he was already getting duality from her (more in common with her and mutual sexual attraction would lead to a strong duality bond imo)

    In regards making our functions stronger, I think there is a slightly different take to it, where it is to have confidence in our functions. For instance, someone who has strong SeFi, may not have confidence in these functions, even although they are relatively strong in the psyche, never mind the weaker ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    @ the Live and the Let..

    Anyone can screw you over, dual or otherwise, although I do like to think it's less likely, at least in part for the reasons you have given. In regards your example, it's quite possible that Hitler saw the prize of the Soviet Union as more important than getting on with a dual.

    Maybe if Stalin had been of opposite sex then there could be physical and mental attraction there also. Infact it's rumoured Hitler had a long term affair with his female personal secretary. She was quiet, well organised, didn't take nonesense..infact it's quite possible she was LSI and he was already getting duality from her (more in common with her and mutual sexual attraction would lead to a strong duality bond imo)

    In regards making our functions stronger, I think there is a slightly different take to it, where it is to have confidence in our functions. For instance, someone who has strong SeFi, may not have confidence in these functions, even although they are relatively strong in the psyche, never mind the weaker ones.
    Absolutely excellent post! I like your point about Hitler seeing the prize of the soviet union as more important than his friendship with Stalin.

    If anything i stabbed my SLI friend in the back emotionally 1000 times. I always sided with my other friends against him. When he was the one being a tool i would do things like get out of the car and all my friends would leave aswell. One time at a scout camp two friends and i ran away from him and hid for like 3 hours. I also made him cry by telling him i never want to see him again once. I honestly think all up he would be much better off if he never met me. He smsed me twice tonight and i haven't even bothered to reply. Why? I dunno i cant be bothered. Wheres the magic in that? He's always been in a bad place and i certianlly dont seem to have had a healing influence on him, in fact i blame myself i think for how he is now. I dunno

    Duals of the same sex can be a bit iffy at least for me it seems
    Last edited by meatburger; 03-27-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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    Duality isn't some sort of magic relationship. Just because someone's your dual doesn't mean you have to overlook all their shortcomings and put up with being let down again and again. It might give the person the shake-up they need if you let them know that you're not going to put up with their behaviour anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    That's an extreme example, but has a dual ever screwed u over? What do you think of this concept? What is the probability of such deception of a dual occurring? In what situations would this most and least likely occur? Do you think there are some duals that would be more likely for this to occur between then other duals?
    I have been manipulated by my dual (or Fe types in general) on occasion. It's just something easy they can do to deal with me I guess. I can spot it now most of the times, but my reaction is usually "ok whatever, manipulate away".
    The opposite also happens, as they usually trust my opinion right away, without thinking about it. Not that I'd ever use this in the wrong way (c:
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    BTW, sorry for shitting on anyone's idealized conceptualization of duality relations haha.
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    Yes. At least, I suspect he was my dual. Maybe he was ILI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    Absolutely excellent post! I like your point about Hitler seeing the prize of the soviet union as more important than his friendship with Stalin.

    If anything i stabbed my SLI friend in the back emotionally 1000 times. I always sided with my other friends against him. When he was the one being a tool i would do things like get out of the car and all my friends would leave aswell. One time at a scout camp two friends and i ran away from him and hid for like 3 hours. I also made him cry by telling him i never want to see him again once. I honestly think all up he would be much better off if he never met me. He smsed me twice tonight and i haven't even bothered to reply. Why? I dunno i cant be bothered. Wheres the magic in that? He's always been in a bad place and i certianlly dont seem to have had a healing influence on him, in fact i blame myself i think for how he is now. I dunno

    Duals of the same sex can be a bit iffy at least for me it seems
    thanks for sharing that if u don't mind me asking, why do u think u treated your dual this way? i'm just curious...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit View Post
    I have been manipulated by my dual (or Fe types in general) on occasion. It's just something easy they can do to deal with me I guess. I can spot it now most of the times, but my reaction is usually "ok whatever, manipulate away".
    The opposite also happens, as they usually trust my opinion right away, without thinking about it. Not that I'd ever use this in the wrong way (c:

    That is GOOD.
    aww i'm sorry that happened to u. i went on spring break- me, an EIE and an LSI and i can see how both could be manipulated very easily. everytime the EIE asked the LSI a question (which was pretty much all the time) the EIE would just do what she said without question. i also saw the EIE on a number of occasions totally guilt trip the LSI when the LSI had a right to be mad. the LSI just kinda let it go cuz i could tell she didn't really care enough and she knew what was going down haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Yes. At least, I suspect he was my dual. Maybe he was ILI.
    would u mind giving a few examples?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    I think this is where non-socionics factors come into play. Not all of your duals are going to be healthy, well-adjusted individuals.

    I personally have not been screwed over by a dual, thank goodness. That's not to say that my dual is always right... but at least they haven't been intentionally misleading in my experience so far.
    hmmm... i agree with u, but i think that under certain circumstances (if ur dual has a grudge against u for instance) they could hurt u more than anybody else possible could.

    also- this question is for everyone- do u guys think that jealousy and/or spite could perhaps play a role in this duality deception?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    would u mind giving a few examples?
    Of his behavior or how he screwed me over?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Of his behavior or how he screwed me over?
    whatever u feel like sharing that's relevant to the thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    whatever u feel like sharing that's relevant to the thread
    I don't know everything, as I wasn't in his mental processes. Long story made short, when I began to trust him physically (in a non-sexual way; I'm picky about being touched in general), he took full advantage and steered things toward the sexual. I admit some fault in that I kept going back, but he also stated that he had been manipulating me. To make matters worse, he was messing around with our mutual friend behind my back and had refused to tell me up until then. He wanted to get some kinky sex group going (which he also had not mentioned), but he hadn't mentioned her because he knew what my reaction would be (he point blank admitted this to me). Of course, he'd told her about the group, just not that I was the other one (though she guessed it anyway). He knew I had feelings for him, and he still screwed me over.

    As far as my unsure typing of him...he was an art major, and he seemed pleasure-oriented. He was also rebellious, disregarding rules that he didn't feel should apply to him. He had that asinine viewpoint of being so informed and wise, while we were somehow thinking below his level - at least, that's the impression he gave off during a few of our later discussions. And if I didn't understand something after a few tries, he'd give up, even if I was perfectly willing to try again. There was also an incident of him expecting me to know what he had meant, although what he said looked nothing like how he'd intended it to come across. We usually got along well, but he had a few habits that I didn't appreciate, especially that "I'm enlightened and want to share my knowledge" crap. I don't mind learning, but not if the person in question thinks or projects that I am somehow lesser than he/she. Oh yeah - he wasn't overly emotional, either; I think he was a T.
    Last edited by Cuddly McFluffles; 03-27-2008 at 03:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    hmmm... i agree with u, but i think that under certain circumstances (if ur dual has a grudge against u for instance) they could hurt u more than anybody else possible could.
    I don't know if I agree with that. I mean as perfect for you as your duals may be, they always remain a bit of an enigma don't they? Hence the attraction. I don't think they would necessarily be that aware of your weak points ... when they are probably glaringly obvious to your conflictor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I don't know everything, as I wasn't in his mental processes. Long story made short, when I began to trust him physically (in a non-sexual way; I'm picky about being touched in general), he took full advantage and steered things toward the sexual. I admit some fault in that I kept going back, but he also stated that he had been manipulating me. To make matters worse, he was messing around with our mutual friend behind my back and had refused to tell me up until then. He wanted to get some kinky sex group going (which he also had not mentioned), but he hadn't mentioned her because he knew what my reaction would be (he point blank admitted this to me). Of course, he'd told her about the group, just not that I was the other one (though she guessed it anyway). He knew I had feelings for him, and he still screwed me over.

    As far as my unsure typing of him...he was an art major, and he seemed pleasure-oriented. He was also rebellious, disregarding rules that he didn't feel should apply to him. He had that asinine viewpoint of being so informed and wise, while we were somehow thinking below his level - at least, that's the impression he gave off during a few of our later discussions. And if I didn't understand something after a few tries, he'd give up, even if I was perfectly willing to try again. There was also an incident of him expecting me to know what he had meant, although what he said looked nothing like how he'd intended it to come across. We usually got along well, but he had a few habits that I didn't appreciate, especially that "I'm enlightened and want to share my knowledge" crap. I don't mind learning, but not if the person in question thinks or projects that I am somehow lesser than he/she. Oh yeah - he wasn't overly emotional, either; I think he was a T.

    WOW- i hope he didn't make u view ur dual in a negative light from now on!

    referring to his type- the whole intellectual arrogance thing and artsy thing seems to fit in with an ILI, however, maybe it's just from my experiences with the ILIs that i have met, but i can't picture an ILI initiating sex first of all (haha), nevertheless having sex with someone behind ur back (they're not that smooth IME), and THEN saying he wanted an orgy. i mean i can think of excuses as to why he's still ILI despite all of that, but it's still hard for me to believe.

    all i can say is wow... some people are messed up and it's especially not cool when they drag other people down into it. i hope that you're better now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    WOW- i hope he didn't make u view ur dual in a negative light from now on!

    referring to his type- the whole intellectual arrogance thing and artsy thing seems to fit in with an ILI, however, maybe it's just from my experiences with the ILIs that i have met, but i can't picture an ILI initiating sex first of all (haha), nevertheless having sex with someone behind ur back (they're not that smooth IME), and THEN saying he wanted an orgy. i mean i can think of excuses as to why he's still ILI despite all of that, but it's still hard for me to believe.

    all i can say is wow... some people are messed up and it's especially not cool when they drag other people down into it. i hope that you're better now.
    Nah, he didn't. Another friend of mine was similar to him; that friend was the best one I ever had, and he would not have done such a thing to me. With this guy, there was that whole stupid idea of "I'm gonna expose you to the physical pleasures of life". That's why I wondered if he was Si. He also was less rushed than I.

    I'm still mad after 8 months; I have a bad habit of holding grudges for years if someone hurts me badly enough. I had my own issues and shortcomings in our friendship, and no less serious, really. I just didn't do to him what he did to me. Of course, I left not long after, though it was through prompting, really, from another source. It was the right thing to do (I really didn't need to be in that situation, especially considering that the other girl had no plans of stopping what she was doing with him; then again, I did tell her I was backing off of him), but it hurt like everything. Doesn't really matter now. I'm coming along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Nah, he didn't. Another friend of mine was similar to him; that friend was the best one I ever had, and he would not have done such a thing to me. With this guy, there was that whole stupid idea of "I'm gonna expose you to the physical pleasures of life". That's why I wondered if he was Si. He also was less rushed than I.

    I'm still mad after 8 months; I have a bad habit of holding grudges for years if someone hurts me badly enough. I had my own issues and shortcomings in our friendship, and no less serious, really. I just didn't do to him what he did to me. Of course, I left not long after, though it was through prompting, really, from another source. It was the right thing to do (I really didn't need to be in that situation, especially considering that the other girl had no plans of stopping what she was doing with him; then again, I did tell her I was backing off of him), but it hurt like everything. Doesn't really matter now. I'm coming along.
    You have the right to be mad and to hold a grudge. BTW, (if this makes u feel better) holding grudges is something us -valuing types know all too well. Take your time and know that you are sooooooooooooo much better off and he just lost the best thing he could ever dream of having. Also, if it makes you feel any better, my money goes for ILI :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    You have the right to be mad and to hold a grudge. BTW, (if this makes u feel better) holding grudges is something us -valuing types know all too well. Take your time and know that you are sooooooooooooo much better off and he just lost the best thing he could ever dream of having. Also, if it makes you feel any better, my money goes for ILI :wink:
    As a Christian, I believe holding grudges is wrong. My mother has said I have a right to hate him. He came to care about me (as a friend, which is saying a lot for him) by the time things blew up, so something in my reaction/subsequent actions hurt him. I call that poetic justice. However, I don't want to hate him. Yeah, I really am so much better off without him. Thanks.
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    I agree with the idea of this topic. In a duality that has developed more deeply into a relationship, the psychological distance between you becomes so close. Once trust is there, you become incredibly vulnerable. The same couldn't be said of your conflictors, who tend to be kept at arms length.
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    cool topic.

    yeah, duality doesn't replace the need to do some careful foundation-laying in the beginning of the relationship. as a matter of fact the way liveandletlive is speaking about it here, it seems that it's even more important to do this with a dual than a non-dual, since you are more subject to manipulation by your dual if their relational ethics don't match up to yours.

    does this mean i can sic infpman on my evil SLE ex? lol i hope so.

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    I'm probably just echoing what others have said by now, but I think anyone can earn your trust and manipulate you if they're so inclined. Yes, dual partners are inclined to trust eachother's judgement on things pertaining to their weak functions, but I think that trust is more of a general trust of the other person, more of a consequence of the comfort of duality, if that makes sense which it probably doesn't because BL never makes sense. There there BL, the nice men in white coats will come to collect you shortly.

    I think knowing whether or not to trust someone is something that more or less comes through life experience and also how one reacts to said experience. I dunno, it's hard to give advice on this matter since everybody's different. I think one thing I can say though is that, if ever you're unsure about something pertaining to another person, even if external signs seem to point the other way.. bah fuck it I don't know what I'm trying to say. Just.. argh.. basically go with your gut instinct with people is what I'm trying to say. Always exercise some sort of critical judgement with people, especially when you don't know them quite so well. Obviously you don't have to be constant on your guard, since that would probably turn people away more than anything, but.. gah, I really don't know what to say on this. Oh well, I'm sure the collection of posts prior to this one would serve more adequately as an answer than this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    WOW- i hope he didn't make u view ur dual in a negative light from now on!

    referring to his type- the whole intellectual arrogance thing and artsy thing seems to fit in with an ILI, however, maybe it's just from my experiences with the ILIs that i have met, but i can't picture an ILI initiating sex first of all (haha), nevertheless having sex with someone behind ur back (they're not that smooth IME), and THEN saying he wanted an orgy. i mean i can think of excuses as to why he's still ILI despite all of that, but it's still hard for me to believe.

    all i can say is wow... some people are messed up and it's especially not cool when they drag other people down into it. i hope that you're better now.
    LOL @ your description of ILIs, ahaha are you serious about this? Did you actually have an experience with an ILI who asked for an orgy? I find that highly hilarious..

    ETA: Woops, addressed to Ryene I guess :S I'm confused now, *backs away*
    Last edited by ScarlettLux; 03-27-2008 at 09:48 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    referring to his type- the whole intellectual arrogance thing and artsy thing seems to fit in with an ILI, however, maybe it's just from my experiences with the ILIs that i have met, but i can't picture an ILI initiating sex first of all (haha), nevertheless having sex with someone behind ur back (they're not that smooth IME), and THEN saying he wanted an orgy. i mean i can think of excuses as to why he's still ILI despite all of that, but it's still hard for me to believe.
    It didn't go as far as sex with him and me (I don't know whether I ever asked the other girl how far they went). That's where he wanted to eventually end up, though. The big problem was that he didn't want me to put/read anything into it emotionally.
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    Duality really IS hyped up a lot, whether people want to admit it or not. I mean, I totally fall prey to this fantastical belief that one day I'll meet my dual and I'll just be so happy and complete. I don't know what my own type is yet, so I really can not comment on any personal experiences. When I thought I was an IEI, I had an SLE boyfriend for a short amount of time ... I definitely vaulted him as some Greek God just because he was an SLE and fell flat on my face because of it. It wasn't pretty, let's just say.

    I think it is really dangerous because of the possibility of dumb people like me doing stuff like that. I mean, believing someone to be perfect and infallible JUST BECAUSE they are our duals. =[

    It's like I can't act truly natural anymore .. well, I can, but especially in a burgeoning romantic relationship, I always wonder if so and so is my dual/activity/other favorable type relation. I don't know whether I actually hinder or help the process by doing so.. more often hinder. I wish sometimes that I could go back to NOT knowing about Socionics cause I really do think about it a lot and it has influenced me a lot. I'm even writing a philosophy essay on it. I'll post that later, I'm pretty proud of it.

    Anyway... yeah. I don't have much more to say.


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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You are so completely exactly 100% right and I feel so completely exactly 100% the same way.
    Ever done anything as stupid as I have because of it?


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    The World Will End Tomorrow.

    because of this fantasical belief in duals. Duals just don't exist imho.

    O:
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    I was just thinking about how in duality relations we rely on our dual's strong functions to guide and help us cope with our weak functions- to the point where we may become dependent on our dual. IMO, this seems like a potential area of manipulation on our dual's part seeing as we kinda just take our dual's word for it- i mean, it makes sense right? We both value the same functions while devaluing the same functions, and even though our dual is competent at our valued and unvalued, weak functions, they choose to predominantly use our weak, valued functions- making us feel as if our dual's preferences were done just for us- how lucky we are! With our duals we get the feeling of playing for the same team, being on the same wavelength, being counterpoints, the yin to our yang, etc.- so of course we should trust their guidance of our weak points... right? I mean, they benefit from us in the same way that we benefit from them after all! My argument is that even though dualities can be amazing relationships, perhaps we should still concentrate on developing our weak functions so as to not completely rely on our dual for everything we suck at.

    I'm reminded of the meeting in Boston and Rick's retelling of Hitler (EIE) and Stalin's (LSI) non-aggression pact during WW2 where Stalin became so enamoured with Hitler and his seeming loyalty to their pact, that Stalin returned to the Soviet Union praising Hitler and the strength of their bond. However, when Hitler broke this pact and invaded the Soviet Union, Stalin was left embarrassed and broken.

    This example to me seems as if Hitler used his strong to charm Stalin and reel him in by exploiting Stalin's dual-seeking function. Stalin felt assured by Hitler, and because he himself was not adept at and thus did not read between the lines, and was too caught up in the promise and excitement over meeting his dual- the person he thought he could depend on- Stalin ended up getting royally screwed.

    That's an extreme example, but has a dual ever screwed u over? What do you think of this concept? What is the probability of such deception of a dual occurring? In what situations would this most and least likely occur? Do you think there are some duals that would be more likely for this to occur between then other duals?

    BTW, sorry for shitting on anyone's idealized conceptualization of duality relations haha.
    That's an excellent point. I fully agree. "Duality gone wrong" can be devastating. Your dual has the power to screw you over like no other type. Your conflictor "attacks" you in areas you don't really value; your dual is strongest in the areas you are most vulnerable because you value them and counts on your dual for support.

    Other examples --

    Talleyrand (IEI) screwing Napoleon (SLE)
    Bismarck (SLE) leading Napoleon III (IEI) to his own destruction
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Your conflictor "attacks" you in areas you don't really value
    Why are conflictor relations so bad if that is the case?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Why are conflictor relations so bad if that is the case?
    Because of the lack of understanding of where your conflictor is coming from, even if both are well-meaning.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Because of the lack of understanding of where your conflictor is coming from, even if both are well-meaning.
    I don't know .... I used to be 'friends' with a guy who was my conflictor - and it seemed like whenever I was unsure of myself or feeling vulnerable he would be right there, making it obvious to everyone.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    Maybe it's not so much that they attack you in areas you don't value, but that you don't really take it as personally because you don't really value their presence as much. It's easier to say "He's just an asshole" about someone you have a larger psychological distance from, than your dual, where you're much more likely to feel a "connection."
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Maybe it's not so much that they attack you in areas you don't value, but that you don't really take it as personally because you don't really value their presence as much. It's easier to say "He's just an asshole" about someone you have a larger psychological distance from, than your dual, where you're much more likely to feel a "connection."
    good point
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    yeah kinda like how your supervisor's criticism hurts so bad, too. you connect with them via their creative and your leading, so you feel like they "know". so when they criticize you they are "right" and have a permanent advantage. conflict, you're like, wtf? who cares. they have their head up their ass.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    yup. I had an ESTj friend-of-a-friend once who would pretty much tear into me whenever our mutual friend had her around. I'd be angry about it for a little while, but then got over it really quickly. I can't see that happening if it was a dual, supervisor, or illusionary. Although with identicals it isn't so bad for some reason.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    That's an extreme example, but has a dual ever screwed u over? What do you think of this concept? What is the probability of such deception of a dual occurring? In what situations would this most and least likely occur? Do you think there are some duals that would be more likely for this to occur between then other duals?
    In the Russian write-ups re: each pair of duals, (well, at least the translations of them on the old forum,) it said that the SLI-IEE "dyad" is the most fragile... SLIs can be very touchy (and granted, to me it's charming,) and IEEs can be very blunt--vice versa too... I don't think that SLI-IEE would be more inclined to deception though, given their particular values.

    I had--and honestly, currently am having--a painful experience with my dual (SLI.) We broke up last year after a series of misunderstandings... Currently, we're not talking. It hurts like hell... I miss my dual! (:cries like a baby It's probably good for right now though, given the circumstances of the break-up.

    The story is this, (for those of you who like stories we'd been living together--some of the best times of my life--but the dual introduced a certain drug into the relationship... We were thoroughly in love, but I didn't want to us to waste time being junkies and ultimately throw our lives away... I'm in my mid-20s and just starting to get a good life going, honestly--didn't want to lose it.

    The big-time misunderstandings began when I asked my dual to move out, so that we could both detox, rehab, etc. With nowhere to go, my dual considered it a rejection I think. (Honestly, I didn't explain it very well at the time--I was kind of a mess.) For a month afterwards, the misunderstandings between us compounded. Via text, we ended up getting in a insult-match in which we tried to hurt each other's feelings... Last fall, I tried to mend fences a couple of times, but the SLI didn't respond.

    I'm hoping that we reconnect someday, (hopefully when our lives are together...) That SLI is the only person I've ever really loved.

    Conclusion: it hurts when things don't go right with a dual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Although with identicals it isn't so bad for some reason.
    Identicals don't hit you where you're vulnerable - you understand what they're doing to you, and you can fix it yourself.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yeah kinda like how your supervisor's criticism hurts so bad, too. you connect with them via their creative and your leading, so you feel like they "know". so when they criticize you they are "right" and have a permanent advantage. conflict, you're like, wtf? who cares. they have their head up their ass.
    That's exactly how I see it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post


    As I think that such qualities would be found in great intensity in unhealthy, maladjusted individuals, I would be inclined to agree with you.
    I agree but find that the line between a healthy and unhealthy individual can be easily broken and crossed in a very short period of time
    INFp-Ni

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    Duals don't work well if they:

    * Are the same gender. Despite the underneath connection duals are still very different from each other and most people tends to build friendships among people who is similar to them and only in romantic relationships they consider something different.

    * Develop the same areas of interest. Again, they look at things differently and thus one will always feel left out by the other in the same area. Duals complement themselves as long as the area of cooperation is not critical for either and concessions can be made (like in any relationship).

    * Have different backgrounds. If you've been a middle to upper class it's likely that you won't feel at home with your dual if he/she comes from the lower classes. It's simply because life style is something which gets imprinted in us while we grow up and it's difficult to shake away.

    * Intelligence level is significantly uneven. It's sad but if you're too intelligent most other people will not understand you properly and that includes your dual. While a matched dual can do wonders, a large disparity between duals can also make both feel like (friendly) aliens.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
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  40. #40
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    LOL @ your description of ILIs, ahaha are you serious about this? Did you actually have an experience with an ILI who asked for an orgy? I find that highly hilarious..

    ETA: Woops, addressed to Ryene I guess :S I'm confused now, *backs away*
    I'm open for other suggestions, certainly. As I only started researching socionics in February, and I split off from him last July, I cannot say for sure who I have known that is ILI. I also didn't know ILIs were not sexually experimental. I'm not entirely sure what he is; he shows some (we were writing a sci-fi story that was however far in the future, and he came up with some fascinating stuff for it) but also some , it would seem. Still, he doesn't come across as Gamma to me (he's not materialistic). He came up with one idea in particular, but it wasn't realized. This said, he was asking a Delta and a possible Alpha or Gamma to help him with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    No. NO. Not at all.......
    The progression of emotion in this was funny.
    Last edited by Cuddly McFluffles; 03-28-2008 at 05:33 PM.
    Johari/Nohari

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