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Thread: What do you call an Enneagram type 3 who ...

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    Default What do you call an Enneagram type 3 who ...

    What do you call a 3 who cares far more about freedom than (s)he does about being impressive?
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    a seven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What do you call a 3 who cares far more about freedom than (s)he does about being impressive?
    Can't Threes care about freedom ? Especially when they have ?

    You know, Threes aren't slaves.

    Or maybe, I was right when I wrote you were CP6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What do you call a 3 who cares far more about freedom than (s)he does about being impressive?
    .. A free number? ... A Phree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    a seven?
    Shows that you should stop talking about the enneagram altogether.

    Joy, maybe a 2w3.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Why would a 2 care any more about freedom? At their best they're still "servants" and once you get lower than level 2 they're undermining the independence of others.

    (That sounds worse than I intend it to sound but I don't know how I can soften it)

    If it "must" be close to 3 then I would say that 4w3 is more likely than 2w3, but I think the average 8 can resemble a 3 especially in terms of being success-oriented and so may be confused for each other. 8s are also focussed very much on their own freedom and independence, they may also be mistaken for 3s in that they may care somewhat about being impressive if they think it will further their goals (as opposed to being impressive being the actual goal as it is for a 3).
    exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Shows that you should stop talking about the enneagram altogether.
    Shows that you didn't get the joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Can't Threes care about freedom ? Especially when they have ?

    You know, Threes aren't slaves.

    Or maybe, I was right when I wrote you were CP6.
    3 is far more likely for me than 6

    (The types least like me are 2, 6, and 9.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    3 is far more likely for me than 6

    (The types least like me are 2, 6, and 9.)
    What do you think of E1, E5 and E7 ?

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    What do you think of E1, E5 and E7 ?
    8 > 3/5/1 > 4/7 > 6 > 2/9

    E1 isn't bad, it's just missing a whole lot... and I'm only like that when I'm super stressed.

    E5 isn't bad, but I'm only like that when I'm sorta depressed.

    E7 I don't relate to a whole lot for the most part, but it's not horrible.
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    Well? Still waiting to hear about these 3's that care far, far more about independence and freedom than image and being impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Is someone claiming that you're a 3?
    I claimed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Why?
    Because she's not hostile enough to be Eight.

    Besides, Eights are stupid. Joy is not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post
    Neither of those make her a 3, particularly the point about hostility. :-
    I forgot : Threes are stupid too, because they're liars. Joy is a liar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    What do you call a 3 who cares far more about freedom than (s)he does about being impressive?
    A Seven.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    thanks niffweed
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    A 3 wanting to impress people and an 8 wanting to have freedom in order to make his own way translates into:

    3=achievement, esteem, status, personal status of achievement, others' status of achievement
    8=power, autonomy, control, personal destiny, others' destiny

    A 3 wants the status symbol (feeling/image triad); an 8 wants the status (of control--gut/instinctive triad).

    To explore the outspoken 8w7 vs. 3w4...: (which is what I have had experience with; I know there are different versions of the E types)

    8w7s, IME, are more earthy, grounded, outspoken and boistrous like a bull-in-a-china shop, lustful, lazy (other than when it comes to something that will actually gain them power; its the maverick/entreprenuer effect); tends to be less achieving in work or at school unless if it gives him power directly over people--striking a deal, etc.

    3w4s, IME, are more professional/dorky, practical and methodical in practice, outspoken and boisterous like an unaware self-promoter, diligent to work, relationships, or hobbies where achievement and symbols of status are promised (becoming accomplished in some obscure teaching or practice, watching 'artsy' movies, dating people who are viewed by others as attractive or valuable)

    The specific points alone could relate to many different types, but I'm trying to mash them all together to give more a feel of this kind of 8/3, one of the areas where they can be confused.
    I don't know about 3w4's, but the bit about 8w7's sounds pretty good. (I'm not sure I'd use the term "lazy" though. )
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    Best way to tell the difference between an Eight and Three practically, is to look at how they express themselves and their anger. First off, the Eight's anger is an issue, just like it is for the One and the Nine. It's not for the Three, but that doesn't mean they don't get angry. They do. Eights aren't just dominating and controlling; this can apply to Ones too. They do this aggressively (which can, in some ways, be likened to the One, except that the One is far more repressed in their anger). When the Eight is angry, they express it freely and directly. They don't lose it and throw a hissy fit, like a counterphobic Six. Nonetheless, in the 8w7, because people are so accustomed to the Eight's aggressive manner of speech, when they get angry, it's nothing new. The 8w7 looks and sounds angry all the time (unless healthy); people are used to their forcefulness. And with me, especially, I find people's reactions are little different when I raise my voice and am genuinely angry than when I'm just trying to get what I want; say, for example, I'm sat in a room, I want to watch TV, and my brother comes in and plays guitar. I'll tell him to play it upstairs or put headphones on. If he was here first he'll say "No, fuck off, I was here first". Eventually, it'll descend into "get the fuck upstairs, you piece of shit". A Three would never descend into this kind of talk with people. It's completely unthinkable. However, an Eight would, and so would a Seven (my brother's a 7w6, probably an SEE). Threes are diplomatic, charming individuals. They know how to get what they want without descending into instinctual aggression. People are far more likely to react positively to the Three's desires than they are to the Eight's, regardless of whether or not the Three is lying or being deceitful. The Eight may not get what they want through pure usage of aggression and force, especially not the 8w7, who will normally adopt this approach throughout their entire life, because it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, but they're not thinking about the fact that it doesn't. (An 8w9 is a different case, by the way; I won't go into this because it doesn't matter right now - you're not asking whether you're an 8w9 or another type, you're asking about 8w7 or another type.)

    Read this Eight/Three misidentification for more information. I've not found a better one yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riso & Hudson

    Misidentifying Threes and Eights

    Threes and Eights are both assertive (PT, 433-36), although the confusion between them centers on the competition found in average Threes and a similar competitiveness in average Eights.

    In general terms, both Eights and Threes are ambitious and competitive: both types want to rise above others. The difference is that average Eights are self-assertive and want others to give them their way immediately so they do not have to waste time and energy fighting with people–not that they are afraid to do so. Eights compete for material and sexual dominance, less over purely social or status issues. For instance, Eights usually do not spend a lot of time comparing themselves with others, and certainly never to the degree that Threes do. For the same reason that Threes confuse themselves with Sevens and Fives (because they are looking for a flattering identity), it is far more likely that Threes identify themselves as Eights rather than vice versa.

    Despite some superficial similarities, the differences are profound: Eights are leaders, deal makers, and power brokers who want to make the world conform to their personal vision. They want to have a large impact, to build and accomplish great things, possibly something that will live as a testament to the greatness of their audacity and will. Strong and implacable, they can be ruthless when something or someone gets in their way. They have large egos, and achieving some form of glory is important to them. Money is both a form of power and a means to amass more of it. Achieving personal power is the dominating drive in Eights*, and there is nothing ambiguous, much less furtive or duplicitous, about them.

    By contrast, power is not the key motive of Threes; achieving success and prestige and basking in the admiring attention of others is. (By contrast, Eights do not care about popularity; they do not care about the goodwill of others, so long as they get their way.) If Eights are natural leaders, Threes are natural managers and technicians. If Eights do not fear failure as such, Threes fear failure deeply because they see it as a personal humiliation, a potential occasion for being rejected, their deepest fear. By contrast, Eights see failure as an opportunity to learn something and come back stronger. If Eights are too busy achieving their purposes to worry about public opinion, Threes live and die on the opinions of others and desperately want to be in demand socially. If average Eights are combative and intimidating and can "take the heat", despite a certain bravado, average Threes will back down or be driven to deviousness: they cannot take pressure for long or exposure for a moment. In short, even average Eights are the "genuine article," whereas average Threes are an imitation of it. Contrast Eights such as Telly Savalas and John Wayne with Threes such as Sylvester Stallone and Burt Reynolds.
    *I just want to point out that although the sentence above it might make you think "wow, LIE and Eight are a perfect fit", just in the same way Salawa and Expat believe that Fe base is a better fit than Te base for Three, so too do I believe that based on the boldened sentence, Se base is a better fit than Te base for Eight.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    This is why there's no possibility that I'm 3 > 8.

    By contrast, power is not the key motive of Threes; achieving success and prestige and basking in the admiring attention of others is. (By contrast, Eights do not care about popularity; they do not care about the goodwill of others, so long as they get their way.) If Eights are natural leaders, Threes are natural managers and technicians. If Eights do not fear failure as such, Threes fear failure deeply because they see it as a personal humiliation, a potential occasion for being rejected, their deepest fear. By contrast, Eights see failure as an opportunity to learn something and come back stronger. If Eights are too busy achieving their purposes to worry about public opinion, Threes live and die on the opinions of others and desperately want to be in demand socially. If average Eights are combative and intimidating and can "take the heat", despite a certain bravado, average Threes will back down or be driven to deviousness: they cannot take pressure for long or exposure for a moment. In short, even average Eights are the "genuine article," whereas average Threes are an imitation of it.
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    And then there's this...
    Type 8 The Challenger
    Ignore physical needs and problems: avoid medical visits and check-ups. Indulging in rich foods, alcohol, tobacco while pushing self too hard leads to high stress, strokes, and heart conditions. Control issues central, although alcoholism and narcotic addictions are possible.
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    Nobody can say "I'm an E3" because it's a paradox :

    E3 = liar

    "I'm an E3" = "I'm a liar"

    But didn't you lie while saying you were a liar ?

    Then, nobody can say "I'm an E3".

    lololol

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    k then
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