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Thread: How Alphas see Gammas - movies and TV

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    Default How Alphas see Gammas - movies and TV

    I think a few Alpha-created movies and TV series give a hint as to how Alphas see Gammas, as per their "villains" or otherwise "odd" or just boring characters.

    For instance.

    From Seinfeld:





    Susan - ESI



    Uncle Leo - ILI




    Frank Constanza - LIE
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    From M*A*S*H:



    "Hotlips" and Frank Burns - ESI and LIE
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    My best friend is gamma.

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    From Star Wars:




    Darth Vader (ESI) and the Emperor (LIE)

    I think the Emperor's personality in Return of the Jedi is a good exaple of how the SEI Lucas would see a LIE villain: zero , zero , obsessed with and achieving his goals through his focus ("everything is proceeding as I had foreseen"); his mastery of the dark side can be seen as a metaphor for the sinister . Besides, it is implied that he actually rules the empire in an efficient way, with a limited number of trusted cronies. He likes to spend time alone, in contemplation and reflection.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    My best friend is gamma.
    Is he like Frank Constanza, or Uncle Leo?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Is he like Frank Constanza, or Uncle Leo?
    lol.


    Uhm she's like a much much smarter version of Dory from Finding Nemo.
    Very playful and caring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    Uhm she's like a much much smarter version of Dory from Finding Nemo.
    Very playful and caring.
    Never saw that.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMime. View Post
    lol.


    Uhm she's like a much much smarter version of Dory from Finding Nemo.
    Very playful and caring.

    I think Dory is an IEE


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I think Dory is an IEE
    I was using Dory just cuz she's playful and caring.

    My best friend is an SEE.

    And whatever type Dory is she's awesome. =) My fav. character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    From Star Wars:




    Darth Vader (ESI) and the Emperor (LIE)
    You think Vader is an ESI? Seriously? Have you seen the first three films, with Anakin? Do you honestly think he as a kid, teenager and young man are indicative of ESI?

    I think the Emperor's personality in Return of the Jedi is a good exaple of how the SEI Lucas would see a LIE villain: zero , zero , obsessed with and achieving his goals through his focus; his mastery of the dark side can be seen as a metaphor for the sinister . Besides, it is implied that he actually rules the empire in an efficient way, with a limited number of trusted cronies. He likes to spend time alone, in contemplation and reflection.
    Does the Emperor contemplate? Was there a scene which showed this?

    ("everything is proceeding as I had foreseen")
    A guy on my corridor told me of a sketch or story that takes the piss out of the Emperor's tendency to excessively mention a) the Dark Side and b) something being "complete" e.g. "something something something Dark Side. Something something something complete".

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I think Dory is an IEE
    Ditzy little blue thing.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    You think Vader is an ESI? Seriously? Have you seen the first three films, with Anakin? Do you honestly think he as a kid, teenager and young man are indicative of ESI?
    Anakin is portrayed as a sort of ILE (ETA: or SLE).

    Darth Vader, in episodes IV, V and VI, is more like an ESI.

    Apart from the plot telling us that they're the same individual, they have nothing in common imo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Does the Emperor contemplate? Was there a scene which showed this?
    In episode VI, he was shown as more of a dark, contemplative figure, often alone in his throne room.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Anakin is portrayed as a sort of ILE (ETA: or SLE).
    I think SLE is more likely.

    Darth Vader, in episodes IV, V and VI, is more like an ESI.
    Where's the Fi?

    Apart from the plot telling us that they're the same individual, they have nothing in common imo.
    Understandable.

    In episode VI, he was shown as more of a dark, contemplative figure, often alone in his throne room.
    Okay, fair enough.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Holy cow. My Mum is the same type as Darth Vader. (My husband is reading this as I type, and he'd like to add that she's got a better dress sense.)

    This is a good thread. Will there be one about Gamma movies/books with Alpha villains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    Holy cow. My Mum is the same type as Darth Vader. (My husband is reading this as I type, and he'd like to add that she's got a better dress sense.)

    This is a good thread. Will there be one about Gamma movies/books with Alpha villains?
    Black is the best color. But I agree, the emperor's dark cloak is more stylish. Darth Vader's outfit is a mix of a samurai and Dr.Doom-wanna-be.

    I can't think now of Alpha villains in Gamma movies or books. Off the top of my head, perhaps some of the French nobility in the movie Ridicule.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Where's the Fi?
    I think he has to be a Se IJ, nothing else makes sense, so the choice is really between LSI and ESI. I think he's rather of a Fi than of a Fe quadra.

    Unlike, say, Mr Spock who's LSI imo.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    Vader's condescending attitude of disgust and irritation toward his subordinates is Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    Holy cow. My Mum is the same type as Darth Vader. (My husband is reading this as I type, and he'd like to add that she's got a better dress sense.)

    This is a good thread. Will there be one about Gamma movies/books with Alpha villains?
    There are ILE villians portrayed as mad scientist types who have no sense of ethics when it comes to human research subjects. Captain Kurotsuchi from Bleach is the most recent example I've seen of this. He's one of the creepiest characters I've seen in a long time, but he called other characters creepy when they spoke of very reasonable Fi values (reasonable from the perspective of any healthy person, I might add).
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    This is a good thread. Will there be one about Gamma movies/books with Alpha villains?
    Do Gammas make movies? Do Deltas, for that matter? Big ones, I mean, not just ones you make with your friends or for a project. (Because I have seen amateur Delta movies, at least.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Do Gammas make movies? Do Deltas, for that matter? Big ones, I mean, not just ones you make with your friends or for a project. (Because I have seen amateur Delta movies, at least.)
    Why is the LSE called "Director"?

    A better question would be, do gammas and deltas watch movies, providing the motivation to make movies for them? If they do, their Te dominants will follow that motivation.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Dr. Baltar on BSG is probably ILE... he's not exactly a villain... just a shade of darker grey. Actually I'm rather sympathetic towards his character.
    I agree, but I'm not sure they offer a Gamma perspective on him so I didn't mention it. Probably a Se perspective in the very least though. He's portrayed as weak and indecisive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Why is the LSE called "Director"?

    A better question would be, do gammas and deltas watch movies, providing the motivation to make movies for them? If they do, their Te dominants will follow that motivation.
    The Deltas I know who have made movies - writing, directing, occasional acting, and editing - are ENFp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    The Deltas I know who have made movies - writing, directing, occasional acting, and editing - are ENFp.
    Could have to do with them being amateur. And given your type, you would have an easier time finding ENFps than ESTjs.

    I dunno - maybe ENFps make good movies too. Activities aren't limited to a certain quadra - at the very least, a person could join their opposite-quadra friends in strange activities for Fi/Fe reasons.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Do Gammas make movies? Do Deltas, for that matter? Big ones, I mean, not just ones you make with your friends or for a project. (Because I have seen amateur Delta movies, at least.)
    I think Gamma moviemakers exist but they tend to be ILIs.

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat View Post
    This is a good thread. Will there be one about Gamma movies/books with Alpha villains?
    I just thought of one -- a very old one, but I guess most people will recognize it.

    The old sitcom, Bewitched, if you look beyond the silliness, it has the underlying theme of a Gamma couple having to put up with the antics of the Alpha relatives, and staying together nonetheless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Why is the LSE called "Director"?
    I guarantee this has nothing to do with the entertainment industry.

    A better question would be, do gammas and deltas watch movies, providing the motivation to make movies for them? If they do, their Te dominants will follow that motivation.
    Why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I agree, but I'm not sure they offer a Gamma perspective on him so I didn't mention it. Probably a Se perspective in the very least though. He's portrayed as weak and indecisive.
    I find Battlestar Galactica is very much biased in favour of Beta qualities... like the Admiral and the President are ISTj & ENFj respectively and they're awesome at leading everyone so long as there's a crisis but when stability re-emerges their style loses alot and things like martial law get declared to re-invent a crisis to rule over lol. But Admiral Kayne was introduced with the Beta bias and you may have noticed she was ENTj and earned the President's negative reviews, and a bunch of moral Fe'ish stuff was used against her. It's almost as if the show's creators realized this because they made that hour and a half "Razor" movie that re-introduced Kayne as a human rather than an enemy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Why?
    Source of income.

    Or have I misunderstood Te? I figured a Te (business logic) type would be the most likely to follow the market.



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    The series of police academy movies strikes me as alpha's vs. gammas. In the end alpha's win because they have their group cohesion, personality, in general Fe, something the others lacked.

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    I think Baltar is clearly ENTp, and Caprica is INFp.

    Adama and Rosalin are ESTj and INFj, respectively. Whoever thinks those two are beta is seriously mistaken.

    Starbuck is a very obvious ESTp.

    Apollo is most likely ISFj.

    Admiral Cain is ISTj, imo. Nothing else really fits.

    Anyway, I think this show is Fi > Fe, as the Fe characters are portrayed as reckless and destructive, and the Fi characters are seen as noble and wise.

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    while we're at it, what type is Poirot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    while we're at it, what type is Poirot?
    LSI.

    Clear IJ temperament. Very rigid about routine and structure.

    Excessive use of Ti in crime scene analysis. For example, after determining that it was impossible for any suspect to place poison in a cup at the time of a murder, he determined that the victim must have put it in herself. However, since she was clearly murdered, the only explanation was that someone placed a certain chemical in sleeping tonic, causing the strychnine poison to condense at the bottom in the form of tiny crystals. So when she finally was at her last dose, she tipped the bottle, emptying the fatal dose of strychnine into her cocoa. That specific scenario may not may total logical sense, but it's the kind of Ti problem solving that Poirot typically engages in. Most of the cases are complex logical riddles.

    Another indicator of his LSI type Ti is how he is very proud of his social status as a famous private detective, never responding modestly to any compliments, taking offense when his reputation hasn't preceded him, and always traveling in luxurious first class arrangements.

    He is hyper-aware of surroundings, noticing all of the people, sounds, and fine details around him. Very good at applying Se pressure to get what he wants out of people, usually to intimidate a witness into admitting something.

    Evidence for strong 8th function Si: Cooks very complex meals as a hobby. Has a good taste for and knowledge of fine food and wines. Can easily keep meticulous care of his personal hygiene. Clothes are always spotless, without any creases.

    Tends to keep the tone of personal discussions with friends jovial, infrequently touching upon any serious subject (with the exception of work-related inquiries). Enjoys interaction in Fe environments, like expensive parties, where he can share stories and offer complements and anecdotes with a large group of people.

    Clear Ne PoLR. He either takes offense or is very irritated by suggestions that there might be some "better" way of doing something (usually a comment made by Hastings directed at his extremely eccentric and idiosyncratic behavior).

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    Oh, and to top it off, he regards having a mustache as an art that any refined person should keep. He is extremely meticulous in making sure that both sides of his mustache are perfectly symmetrical. This is stereotypical LSI behavior.

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    (: that was very well written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Source of income.
    There are a lot of possible sources of income in the world. I think someone has to have a particular interest in the art of directing films in order to do it well though.

    Or have I misunderstood Te? I figured a Te (business logic) type would be the most likely to follow the market.
    Being aware of and utilizing changes in the market is a Ni + Te thing, but again, there are a lot of possible sources of income. Someone who wants to get involved in the film industry to make money but doesn't have a particular interest in directing would probably be wiser to just invest in the movie/studio/whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    (: that was very well written.
    Gracias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I think Baltar is clearly ENTp, and Caprica is INFp.

    Adama and Rosalin are ESTj and INFj, respectively. Whoever thinks those two are beta is seriously mistaken.

    Starbuck is a very obvious ESTp.

    Apollo is most likely ISFj.

    Admiral Cain is ISTj, imo. Nothing else really fits.

    Anyway, I think this show is Fi > Fe, as the Fe characters are portrayed as reckless and destructive, and the Fi characters are seen as noble and wise.
    And many of those Fi > Fe characters (and Cain) honestly drive me crazy! They are always the moral compass of the show (with the exception of Cain) no matter how stupid, dangerous, hypocritical, or irrational their decisions are. For a long time, Adama sat on a high moral horse and was seemingly incapable of doing anything immoral, which ruined the believability his character. The primary mistake of the series was humanizing the cylons to such an extent that they were defanged and declawed as a threat. Instead of showing how inhumane humanity can be and close they could be to the Cylons (who are like a force of nature), they made cylons more human (and I am not referencing their appearance).

    For the record: I characters I actively hope will live are just Tyrol, Gaeta, and Baltar. And the only character I actively hope dies a horrible painfully excruciating death is Helo.
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    I don't think Adama is LSE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't think Adama is LSE.
    What do you think he is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    What do you think he is?
    If not LSE, then SLI. Joy thinks he's ethical, but I don't see that at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    If not LSE, then SLI. Joy thinks he's ethical, but I don't see that at all.
    Neither do I. L People can be ethical and E people can be logical. But Adama seems quite .
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Adama seems quite .
    Yep.

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