Mirror Relations: Stories and Experiences

[Jarno]

Well, the thing is, when two thinking resolute mirrors start to argue, the verbal spar will unlikely end soon. So, while I think it's easy to get along with your mirror, I also think that it's easy to destroy the relationship with one big bout of misunderstanding. Probably two feeling mirror types are better at getting over (or avoiding) disputes.

Yes I was thinking the same thing.

[redbaron]

I dunno, I know a few mirror marriages. Let me think here...

INTj-ENTp (married 15 years)
ISTj-ESTp (married 20+ years)
ENFj-INFp (married 11 years)

Each marriage has its own issues, but they all seem very solid overall.

My EIE aunt and I are mirrors and I absolutely love her. We get each other a lot better than the alphas in the family do, but she absolutely will not back down when it comes to any argument. So I always do. I think that might get tiring in a romantic relationship. I might eventually feel kind of squashed by her.

[tiny_dancer]

I know several mirror marriages too - the ones I know are all 'feelers'. And they do seem quite happy. My best friend and I have disagreements when we see things differently, but I'm not sure that it would be *that* much worse than disagreeing with your dual. At some point, you're going to have disagreements with any partner...

[Jarno]

I know several mirror marriages too - the ones I know are all 'feelers'. And they do seem quite happy. My best friend and I have disagreements when we see things differently, but I'm not sure that it would be *that* much worse than disagreeing with your dual. At some point, you're going to have disagreements with any partner...

Yes but mirrors have the extra bonus that they can have disputes without an ending, and in (nearly) all cases no winner, which makes both parties feel like they are not taken seriously.

But I guess most mirror couples can do fine, but the ILI - LIE mirror is prone to heavy discussions

[Bardia]

I tend to get along pretty well with both of my SEE friends. We haven't had any real arguments. It's wierd I seem to have a lot of similar opinions with both of them.

[redbaron]

I tend to get along pretty well with both of my SEE friends. We haven't had any real arguments. It's wierd I seem to have a lot of similar opinions with both of them.

okay but really now, who doesn't get along with SEEs?

[Bardia]

okay but really now, who doesn't get along with SEEs?

Hahaha true.

[calenwen]

Haha, ESFps are awesome. My first boyfriend was SEE and it was pretty much a conflict-free relationship. It was nice.

[07490]

It sucks.

Yes you are good friends, but next to that, you only quarrel, both don't understand what the other person is trying to say. You get accusations etc etc. Both think the other person is stupid.

I say it's the worst quadra relationship, both romantically as for friendship.

What are your experiences?

I would like to add that ENTj is not the easier person to get along with.

[Jarno]

I would like to add that ENTj is not the easier person to get along with.

Yes I agree, they are competitive and assertive. Two things that really fire up the disputes.

[iAnnAu]

Hm. Well, my mirror SO and I have been together for about 14 months now; living together for 10 months. We get along great.

The only time we argue about anything is when it's so trivial that we're willing to. For example, I said his couch was grey and he insisted it was green. We discussed at great length where to draw the line between the two, and finally we both pulled out our digital cameras, loaded pictures onto the computer, and compared where the color histogram came out. We had smiles on our faces the whole time because we knew it was silly, but neither of us was going to back down.

In contrast, when our opinions differ about something substantial, we will calmly and respectfully discuss it until we see closure on the issue, which might take what we both later admit was a longer time than we thought it would. I'm trying to think of an example, but until I do, I'll just mention that it happens a few times a month. Sometimes I get frustrated because it seems like we've wasted time talking about something for 30 minutes or more that in the end seemed like it should have only taken 5 ... but most of the time it actually turns out that we actually want the same thing, and we're just explaining it differently. And to be perfectly honest, it's usually my argument that I end up concluding was not succinctly presented, necessitating some hashing out of basically semantics. If I were looking for an excuse, I'd attribute it to my IP-ness.

We work together very well, possibly due to both focusing on efficiency and competency in completing tasks. We usually play well together, too, as long as I don't beat him too badly in something (for example, he won't play pool with me any more; but he shows a lot of patience with me as I learn to play hackeysack, something he's quite good at, from scratch). We share chores and bills quite equitably. And we're both fairly self-sufficient, so if one wants to do something the other doesn't, neither acts insecure about doing things apart.

We're quite obviously not what socionics models as a dual pair, but I like the way the relationship is going. If I were to make any predictions on upcoming friction, I would wonder if he's going to get frustrated by how unfocused I am in my ambitions (which again I could make excuses for by claiming IP-ness), and/or if I might get frustrated that he's so ginger he's practically afraid of the sun and thus unlikely to play outdoors as much as I like (which got nuttin' ta do with type, probably). But the future never turns out the way we anticipate anyway ...

[Jarno]

Sounds good.

thanks for your input.

I'm seeming to get along a bit better lately with my mirror, now I'm focussed on not letting the discussion get out of hand. Although we still sometimes have this thing, that we misunderstand eachother slightly. It's weird. We both mean to say good things, but the other person assumes it's meant as a bad thing, a serious remark when it's a joke. etc.

[07490]

no.

at all attracted to ENTj female then?

[Slacker]

I have several friends in mirror marriages. They seem to be pretty happy from what I can tell. I don't think I've ever dated an EII though.

[1981slater]

I've noticed most mirror couples are ethical. What do you think about this?

[Warlord]

at all attracted to ENTj female then?

Hehe just not in relationship with one I know my answer was kinda vague, because I thought it would be funny to say that.

[Slacker]

I've noticed most mirror couples are ethical. What do you think about this?

Now that you mention it, all the mirror couples I know are ethical. I hadn't noticed that before.

[Warlord]

I guess you deserve a serious answer.

I don't see why INTp-ENTj relationship wouldn't be possible, there's probably lot more of those in practice than INTp-ESFp relationships.

I generally like ENTj's. And of my personal experience with ENTj girls. There was a ENTj girl at my old workplace, and she seemed to be happy and interested in talking with me, maybe more with me than with other people in general. It was bit taxing though, because it was like both were waiting for the other to connect on deeper level, but neither made an iniative. She was the one who was engaging the conversations though. There was also another ENTj girl that talked with me on MSN, it was quite similar. These descriptions could be all in my head though, I'm not sure at all about this type of stuff. So I don't know what they really thinked about me and the situation.

[Wynch]

Now that you mention it, all the mirror couples I know are ethical. I hadn't noticed that before.

That's because only ethicals can get in relationships. Logicals are too busy being idiots...

;_;

[calenwen]

Yes, I was in one. Good experience overall. We never quarreled and even though it ended about three years ago, we still talk amiably.
I'm not sure what else you want to know...?

[Jarno]

has anyone been in one?

Yes, couple of months ago, I made a thread about it, how our disputes were a bit to agressive. She was LIE-ni

[07490]

Yes, I was in one. Good experience overall. We never quarreled and even though it ended about three years ago, we still talk amiably.
I'm not sure what else you want to know...?

People think that it would not work, it was just be to quiet and nothing really happening.

[Banana Pancakes]

That's because only ethicals can get in relationships. Logicals are too busy being idiots...

;_;

Well logical people clash. You don't see two logicals in a relationship much.

It's usually ethical/logical or ethical/ethical.

And it's the ethical's job to do the "relationship" bullshit. I'm tired of trying to do their jobs.

[Mattie]

Well logical people clash. You don't see two logicals in a relationship much.

It's usually ethical/logical or ethical/ethical.

And it's the ethical's job to do the "relationship" bullshit. I'm tired of trying to do their jobs.

Interesting you say that, all "relationship bullshit," as so eloquently put, is usually defered to me in my group of friends (I have mostly T friends), and I'm starting to find it is the case with what is growing between an ISTp and I. It seems that everything is fine until I bring something up, or relationships stay the way they are until I initiate something. I'll have to think more about this.

Relating to topic, I haven't been in any mirror relationships, though I think I would consider it. I haven't met an INFj that caught my attention. But what is interesting is that my best friend, an ENTp, was just in one, and while it seemed like they were great on paper, they had no real lasting intimacy. Whenever you saw them together, you couldn't tell they were intimate whatsoever, but they had an active and healthy sex life. Strange.

[jason_m]

I've noticed most mirror couples are ethical. What do you think about this?

I'm not sure, but I have a theory: mirrors in relationships are usually ethical types because ethical types are better-skilled in love and relationships. Because of this, I would suspect that ethical types have been in more relationships, and are more capable of getting into a relationship - they have a better understanding of the relationship "game." If you put two logical types together, you will often find that neither warms up enough to the other for a relationship to take place. For this reason, I would expect plenty of mirror friendships between logical types, and perhaps even more work relationships amongst them (because logical skills go together nicely in a work setting).

Jason

[meatburger]

I haven't met an INFj that caught my attention

I totally agree with that statement. I am often not that sexually attracted to INFj's. Theres an INFj with a room across from mine and shes always walking around in short shorts etc. People often say wow at her and say im lucky lol. I can tell shes actually very good looking but it feels like looking at my sister for some reason (i dont have a sister). This is not saying anything about INFj's i think they are cute and gorgeous i just instinctively know we should be friends instead.

I knew an ENTj-INTp couple. The ENTj girl would always say how much she loved INTp and was very affectionate in public. They seemed to get on quite well. I think at this point its close to 5 years. INTp was just his rock solid normal self and she seemed to dig it. Then she decided she wanted to move back home into the bush as she was a speech pathologist and he said he didn't want to as hes a lawyer in a very good firm. So they just broke up. They are kind of trying right now to get back together but last i heard he had moved out, and in with an ENTj friend of ours. He was actually going to propose to her when they went on holidays but they broke up a few months before. They still ended up going together as they had spent the money. He said to me there were more issues than just the moving thing. One of them if i recall was that she felt they sat at home and watched tv too much and perhaps didn't do things. seeking related? INTp seemed to be perplexed by this he was happy to try to do more things but she was bringing up even more issues. He said that he doesn't have much confidence in their relationship if she was willing to leave (very logical approach i thought). I dont really mind lol, i dont like her because she is too in your face and annoying. He is a good looking awesome Lawyer INTp. ESFp women probablly already have his scent, they are closing in like hyenas as we speak.

[Slacker]

Oh yeah. I forgot. My brother (ISFj) was in a dual marriage but they divorced.

[redbaron]

one of my best friends is INTj married to ENTp. They have a solid marriage. But she has had some issues with his lack of outward expression of affection for her. She really wants to be told that he loves her. And from what I gather, although he expresses it in actions, he rarely expresses it in words (being married to an ESE, I can hardly imagine this. My husband tells me several times per DAY). This has been a sore spot for them. I don't know what his issues are, if any. But they have lots of common interests and are very good friends and great parents to their children. The sex? Not great.

[iAnnAu]

has anyone been in one?

There's been at least 2 threads on this topic that I've responded to, so I will try to not repeat what I've already mentioned. FTR, he's LSE & I'm SLI.

My SO & I weren't going to date at first; just be friends-with-benefits. But we kept hanging out more and more often, and eventually we were showing affection to each other (like holding hands) even in public, and when people asked if we were dating, it became official. Things have progressed very naturally since then, with matters like how to divide paying for things, moving in together, hanging out with our nonmutual friends, meeting family, and going on long trips not being discussed at length except as the need arises.

Overall, we have a very comfortable coexistence with lots of mutual respect and general silliness. The roughest parts of the relationship are in communication, because we tend to say very similar things in such different ways that we can spend minutes just figuring out that we don't disagree. Sometimes it's amusing; other times it's frustrating because each of us likes being efficient. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often, and it has yet to trip us up in a time-sensitive situation.

There's been a few situations where I thought to myself that we could really use some an Fi-type around ... but overall, I think we relate to each other just fine, and he is great with other people, so as long as he doesn't afterwards subject me to a lecture about it, I let him handle all the "I'm doing great today, thanks!" kind of interactions (and grateful to be able to do so!).

[Creepy-male]

My ESE friend is seriously the best thing since sliced bread.

He's like, ENERGY. LET ME GIVES YOU IT. And I'm like LET'S GO ANNOY OUR SLI FRIEND. And he's all like WOOT!

And that's how I woke up with butter on my head.

EDIT

He's also a 7w6. He needs a TV show. "Mr Rogers on Comedy".

[Cheesy]

That's interesting. The EIEI-Fe could be ESE but I'm not sure if ESEs are as honest with their real feelings. The EIE-Ni description doesn't give me an idea of a certain type..

I think mirror relations can be nice but sometimes boring and annoying. I find that my mirror is a very admirable person but at times seems stiff and lacking spontaneity. It can get on my nerves but I try to understand. Sometimes I just want to shake her up. Everything takes days with my EII friend. If I want to do something with her I have to let her know at least a week in advance.. I usually feel like I want to hang out with a certain person at that certain time so I like people that I can randomly hang out with. It does make my time with her more exclusive I guess.

the main irritation comes from the different temperaments.

[Creepy-male]

the main irritation comes from the different temperaments.

Well, true.

Take playing WoW. The ESE wants to get through things as quickly as possible and race ahead to level. The SLI wants not to strain (but still level quickly) and I want to wander around smelling the roses/getting lost/getting killed/messing around with my latest shiny new spell.

So, there's an element of strain when I want to jump off cliffs and take screenshots or read the quest text, while the ESE wants to race around killing things nonstop so we can level.

[Wynch]

MysticSonic and I had a conversation about our mirror relationship. Our most noticeable thing was that we could talk and go from one topic into something totally unrelated and never lose track of each other. We kind of build on each other at warp speed. On topics that we're both comfortable with, we're very agreeable, don't have trouble seeing eye-to-eye and can shift to other conversations with complete fluidity. When we get on those trains of conversation, it's pretty much endless. We can go on forever talking.

However we both have similar blind spots where when we get into those topics, our conversations becomes something like this:

"Yeah wtf is up with that?"
"Man, I don't get it."
"Neither do I, like, what are you supposed to do?"
"Fuck if I know."
*five more minutes of ranting*
"...."
"...."
*Conversation dies*

Mostly those involve people who live in a world of complete certainty and trying to sort out or relationship issues. If we keep it objective, we can sort of get somewhere, but typically it ends like above.

[Wynch]

Do you find it easier to talk with mirrors than identicals? How would you compare the two relations?

Not sure I understood the rant part....?

With identicals we kind of mutally ramp up the ridiculous levels until we implode. It's a very comfortable mind-reader kind of relationship.

I think the really noticeable thing is looking at agendas. With my identical there's almost an Fe competition. Who can be the most Ne/Fe? Which is why I say we kind of build until we implode. It's incredibly fun when it happens. I have a LOT of fun with ILEs because we have absolutely no reservations with each other and we turn into a combination of shit show/nerd fest/arguing for the sake of arguing.

With mirrors it's more relaxing. Rather than revving each other up, we sort of balance each other out. LII provices pseudo-Si and I provide pseudo-Fe. I draw conversation out of LIIs, they give me an energy sink. It makes conversation more relaxing and congeneal, but we also hit walls where we just can't help each other. And when we hit those spots, rather than talking about mutual issues and relating about how much we suck in that regard (like BP and I) we end up giving each other half-assed advice then kind of shrugging and saying "Well what the fuck do I know?"

[Bardia]

I think mirror relations can be nice but sometimes boring and annoying. I find that my mirror is a very admirable person but at times seems stiff and lacking spontaneity. It can get on my nerves but I try to understand. Sometimes I just want to shake her up. Everything takes days with my EII friend. If I want to do something with her I have to let her know at least a week in advance.. I usually feel like I want to hang out with a certain person at that certain time so I like people that I can randomly hang out with. It does make my time with her more exclusive I guess.

the main irritation comes from the different temperaments.

Yea I have the opposite view from this problem lol. I find my ESFp friend can be too erratic and sponteous sometimes. I don't require to plan a week ahead but i like to have a general plan for tomorrow. For example, lets go to the beach sometime tomorrow. To me this is: we are most likely going tomorrow; to him i think it is: this is what i feel like doing tomorrow but that can easily change. I mean changing plans doesnt bother me too much it is cancelling them all together that irritates me. And I just try to understand that he likes spontaniety. Spontaniety is not all bad though I actually really enjoy it every once in a while cuz he takes me crazy places or we do crazy stuff that I wouldn't normally do.

MysticSonic and I had a conversation about our mirror relationship. Our most noticeable thing was that we could talk and go from one topic into something totally unrelated and never lose track of each other. We kind of build on each other at warp speed. On topics that we're both comfortable with, we're very agreeable, don't have trouble seeing eye-to-eye and can shift to other conversations with complete fluidity. When we get on those trains of conversation, it's pretty much endless. We can go on forever talking.

However we both have similar blind spots where when we get into those topics, our conversations becomes something like this:

"Yeah wtf is up with that?"
"Man, I don't get it."
"Neither do I, like, what are you supposed to do?"
"Fuck if I know."
*five more minutes of ranting*
"...."
"...."
*Conversation dies*

Mostly those involve people who live in a world of complete certainty and trying to sort out or relationship issues. If we keep it objective, we can sort of get somewhere, but typically it ends like above.

This is a lot like how me and my ESFp friend talk when it is just us. We can talk for forever. Our blind spot conversations usually have something to do with wishing we are more effecient at something like paper writing or wish we knew more about some topic.

I think overall its a great and fun friendship but we have definitely had some conflict because of our different temperments.

[redbaron]

hmmmm. My aunt is EIE (not sure on subtype) and I find that we're usually together in a group (of our families) and whenever one of us says something, the other one is sometimes the only other person in the room to immediately understand. (we're the only betas other than my daughter in the entire family) So that's really cool. She knows where she stands on any and every issue. I don't often have that strong of opinions but I remember one time when I had a hugely strong opinion regarding c-sections, based on my own experience, we butted heads and she would not back down and neither would I. We just kept going and it got a bit heated! I don't often understand where all her energy comes from and how she can keep pounding out her stances on various political issues. I sort of admire it and discount it at the same time. I do love her though. And I love that she "gets" me in a way my (delta) mom never has or will.

I have another friend who is either IEI-Fe or EIE-Ni. She's a lot more laid back than my aunt. But still does most of the initiating in our relationship and has more energy than I do for friendships and getting out and doing things. She's stronger than I am with Fe. Uses it more. But there's definitely Ni also. I do think the Ni is probably in service of the Fe rather than the other way around. So probably EIE. Anyway, we see eye to eye on most things other than politics. I got slightly annoyed with her during the election because she was acting like Obama was the savior of the universe and I didn't feel like talking about it. To me, he's just another politician. I mean, I respect that she feels so strongly about it but it's hard for me to stomach. (I'm kinda anti-government). ANYway... it does get boring after awhile with her if we don't have some problem to discuss. She's really good at listening to relationship issues and helping me figure things out in that area. In one way only is mirror easier for me than identical--and that's because Ejs tend to stay in touch and initiate getting together more than Ips. However, with my IEI friends, we always have immediate understanding from the moment we're in contact again, even if we go months without talking.

[Jarno]

i once had a mirror relationship.

Actually had a thread about it.

We were really understanding, but when we got discussions, the 'hot disputes' part of the relationship became pretty evident. We broke up because of that.

But I think the NT's are more prone to discussions and therefor disputes...

[redbaron]

One of my best friends is INTj, married to ENTp and they've been married for 15 years and never, ever fight. They never even disagree. Or rarely. There's little to no turbulence (and in the same way, little to no passion). It's a very calm relationship. But perhaps they tend to hold one another at arm's length.

[The Exception]

How does subtype play a role in mirror relations? I've seen stuff written about subtype's role in activity and dual relations but nothing on the mirror relation. For instance, would an LII-Ne subtype typically prefer ILE-Ti or ILE-Ne? Or is there a difference?

[Jarno]

From my own personal experience it's most fun to have corresponding subtypes.

So both producing in my case.