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Thread: These two political ads

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    Default These two political ads

    McCain's:



    Obama's:



    They're both rubbish, (though McCain's is much, much more tasteful imo) but I think they're an interesting example of a difference between and .

    In McCain's video, the focus is on looking back at history in order to inspire a sense of duty, and determination, and honor. It mentions unyielding, never giving up, the idea that evil "must" be vanquished.

    In Obama's video, a major element is the crowd, and getting you roused and in the mood. The "chorus of millions". He mentions the change happening between two distant geographic points, giving the impression of a widespread revolution across a vast distance.
    Last edited by discojoe; 03-13-2008 at 02:27 AM.

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    check them before you post, the obama video is not working
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian View Post
    check them before you post, the obama video is not working
    I did, and it is. Moron.

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    I saw chemtrails in the sky on that McCain ad

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    obama gave a speech at my university and i yelled at all the tards who were waiting 5 hours to see him. seriously, that was the nicest day of the year yet and all these dorks are outside with blankets and chairs sitting around.

    and i think discojoe's analysis of the ads is very accurate. Fe in obama, all about the group and how we we we we we we we we we can do it.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I did, and it is. Moron.

    Last edited by discojoe : Today at 01:27 AM.


    guess who is the moron??? after u edited it, it works, jack s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian View Post
    Last edited by discojoe : Today at 01:27 AM.


    guess who is the moron??? after u edited it, it works, jack s
    It worked before I edited, and all I changed was a small grammatical mistake.

    Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

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    yeah right
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    Both commercials are sorta Ni/Se heavy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    McCain's:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_A53PAxeR8

    Obama's:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsrgYvx7KJE

    They're both rubbish, (though McCain's is much, much more tasteful imo) but I think they're an interesting example of a difference between and .

    In McCain's video, the focus is on looking back at history in order to inspire a sense of duty, and determination, and honor. It mentions unyielding, never giving up, the idea that evil "must" be vanquished.

    In Obama's video, a major element is the crowd, and getting you roused and in the mood. The "chorus of millions". He mentions the change happening between two distant geographic points, giving the impression of a widespread revolution across a vast distance.

    incidentally I like your comments. Although the history bit is Ni not Fi IMO.

    what do you think are their types?
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    I think Obama is ENFj and McCain is ISTp or ESTj.

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    I agree with SLI as possible for McCain, but I think Obama, despite the focus of his campaign tactics, is more likely EII. He talks a lot like my dad, they both have that same under-enthusiastic enthusiasm thing going on; I'm pretty sure an EIE would be more overtly enthusiastic unless he had a big reason not to be, and since I think this is one of Obama's problems in reaching parts of the populace, especially the younger crowd (which he seems to doing regardless), I somehow doubt that it's a ploy. But after that I would maybe think about EIE; he definitely seems NF and rational to me, but I think his values are pretty much automatically obscured by his campaign.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
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    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
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    Under cerulean skies...

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    Yes, something about EIE for Obama is just very off... I agree that I would have expected a "real" EIE to be MUCH more enthused, and actually much more charismatic than he supposedly is. When watching his "Yes, we can!' speeches, I'm left pretty dry... ?

    I personally like McCain's video MUCH more. It was stylish and artistic, nice music in the background. Just put together well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    They're both rubbish, (though McCain's is much, much more tasteful imo) but I think they're an interesting example of a difference between and .

    In McCain's video, the focus is on looking back at history in order to inspire a sense of duty, and determination, and honor. It mentions unyielding, never giving up, the idea that evil "must" be vanquished.

    In Obama's video, a major element is the crowd, and getting you roused and in the mood. The "chorus of millions". He mentions the change happening between two distant geographic points, giving the impression of a widespread revolution across a vast distance.
    I agree with your analysis, although personally I didn't like the reference to Churchill.

    But yeah, the first one is focusing in a "solitary" way in McCain's own character. Obama's video goes out of its way to make Obama "disappear" as being just the "voice of the movement for change" or whatever.

    McCain's gives the impression of a guy who'd do everything alone if he could. Obama's gives the impression of a guy who can't even conceive of being on his own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian View Post
    Although the history bit is Ni not Fi IMO.
    It's Ni too, but the melancholic and and urgent way it was presented was Fi, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I agree with your analysis, although personally I didn't like the reference to Churchill.
    Because they're not historically parallel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Because they're not historically parallel?
    Because it's pretentious. That "never surrender" speech was made in the context of Britain standing alone against Hitler, after France had fallen and before the US entered the war, and with a real possibility of being overrun.

    The fact that McCain himself endured a lot as a PoW makes it just acceptable, imo, but, still, I didn't like it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Because it's pretentious. That "never surrender" speech was made in the context of Britain standing alone against Hitler, after France had fallen and before the US entered the war, and with a real possibility of being overrun.

    The fact that McCain himself endured a lot as a PoW makes it just acceptable, imo, but, still, I didn't like it.
    Ehh... I think WW2 happened long enough ago that it's okay to reference it even when it's not entirely relevant or appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Ehh... I think WW2 happened long enough ago that it's okay to reference it even when it's not entirely relevant or appropriate.
    Obama himself reported in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he was put in his place (rightly, he says) by a reviewer for giving the impression, in a piece he wrote elsewhere, that his life paralled Lincoln's. That's even longer ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    They're both rubbish, (though McCain's is much, much more tasteful imo) but I think they're an interesting example of a difference between and .
    It's interesting that a Fi valuer would use footage of a Fe valuer for campaigning purposes. It was a bit rousing (I can understand why people would go "ALRIGHT!!! McCain for president!", but nothing like that ever really gets me upstarted.

    Obama's was shit, FTR. It looked amateur, and his Fe and the crowd's reaction to it makes me recoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Obama himself reported in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he was put in his place (rightly, he says) by a reviewer for giving the impression, in a piece he wrote elsewhere, that his life paralled Lincoln's. That's even longer ago.
    I may be scolded for this, but I think WW2 is different. It's strongly associated with corny black and white footage with poor audio and speeches with antiquated dialog, that it's almost the same as using movie footage. It's more of a legend than a reality in many people's minds, especially in American pop culture (e.g., video games). It may be a bit pretentious (especially to history buffs) but I don't really see the problem with it.

    Lincoln is more of a mythical figure, so comparing one's self to him is like a personal comparison with Jesus.

    Anyways, these political ads are all garbage, regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Obama's was shit, FTR. It looked amateur, and his Fe and the crowd's reaction to it makes me recoil.
    They made a music video from that speech. All participants are on my death list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I may be scolded for this, but I think WW2 is different. It's strongly associated with corny black and white footage with poor audio and speeches with antiquated dialog, that it's almost the same as using movie footage. It's more of a legend than a reality in many people's minds, especially in American pop culture (e.g., video games). It may be a bit pretentious (especially to history buffs) but I don't really see the problem with it.

    Lincoln is more of a mythical figure, so comparing one's self to him is like a personal comparison with Jesus.

    Anyways, these political ads are all garbage, regardless.
    I wouldn't scold you. As I said, I didn't like it, but it's not a major issue for me or something.

    I preferred McCain's to Obama's - perhaps obviously so - because, despite the corniness, it does transmit the information referring to McCain's "resume" in Vietnam etc.

    Obama's video's message is sort of circular -- there is a "movement for change" around Obama, and Obama is important because he's in the center of this "movement for change" --
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    They made a music video from that speech. All participants are on my death list.

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    Just a reminder for anyone who was possibly influenced by McCain's message: he is going to start a war in Iran. Just for the record.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I think McCain's ad is sickeningly over-dramatic; not sure how it can be called tasteful at all, beyond the fact that talks about McCain being a veteran, which even in and of itself is exaggerated to a pointless extent; this makes it completely tasteless IMO, although in artistic terms I would say it does top Obama's, whose is bland and boring and doesn't say anything of substance whatsoever. Poor Fe and underused Te/Si, respectively.

    I can't really say anything about Obama's ad. He just doesn't say anything whatsoever beyond "I'm the shit because I've become famous fast and therefore you should believe that I will change the world if you elect me." Stupid. Decent use of Fe, blatant disregard for Ne, zero Te.

    But what McCain does say...some of it, I mean, come on: "We are America, and we will not give in; they will!"...? What? The country that gave up in Vietnam, that hasn't fought a war on it's own turf in how many years? shows any kind of tendency for resolution, is doubtlessly going to fight until we have what we seek, compared to people who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause and refuse to give an inch in their stance at large even when two of their most powerful countries have been demolished, including one that has been essentially turned into a puppet? Please. Poor attempt at Se with complete ignorance of Te and Ne.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    McCain's video is completely contrived and unbelievable. Nothing about it seems to come from an honest portrayal of McCain. It is far too slick to suit his style.

    And,

    Terry Atlas blogs for U.S. News and World Report with "6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran." They are: Fallon's resignation, Cheney's trip to the Middle East, the Israeli airstrike on Syria, U.S. warships off Lebanon, Israeli comments and Israel's war with Hezbollah.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Just a reminder for anyone who was possibly influenced by McCain's message: he is going to start a war in Iran. Just for the record.
    Has he said this? I haven't been paying attention to all this stuff, aside from the passing mention on the news.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Has he said this? I haven't been paying attention to all this stuff, aside from the passing mention on the news.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Hm. So what are his reasons for bringing the troops home?
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    Which troops? We're talking about the guy who said he'd stay in Iraq for 100 years.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Which troops? We're talking about the guy who said he'd stay in Iraq for 100 years.
    Oh. I was confusing him with Ron Paul. Dang, I gotta keep up with these guys.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Oh hell no. Ron Paul is the shit. Like you said, he's all about bringing the troops home; for all I know, McCain's election could end up in a struggle for world domination
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I think McCain's ad is sickeningly over-dramatic; not sure how it can be called tasteful at all, beyond the fact that talks about McCain being a veteran, which even in and of itself is exaggerated to a pointless extent; this makes it completely tasteless IMO, although in artistic terms I would say it does top Obama's, whose is bland and boring and doesn't say anything of substance whatsoever. Poor Fe and underused Te/Si, respectively.

    But what McCain does say...some of it, I mean, come on: "We are America, and we will not give in; they will!"...? What? The country that gave up in Vietnam, that hasn't fought a war on it's own turf in how many years? shows any kind of tendency for resolution, is doubtlessly going to fight until we have what we seek, compared to people who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause and refuse to give an inch in their stance at large even when two of their most powerful countries have been demolished, including one that has been essentially turned into a puppet? Please. Poor attempt at Se with complete ignorance of Te and Ne.
    Exactly. It's the same vague fear mongering, "we will never surrender to the enemy," we should be sooooo proud to be American, blablabla bullshit I have heard since 9/11. Same rhetoric. I am so sick of it. It's all about making people fearful so they want to be protected and proud so they want to vote for someone who is your "real, proud, unwavering, brave" American president. Feed people's fear and patriotism and they will not ask for facts and solutions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Exactly. It's the same vague fear mongering, "we will never surrender to the enemy," we should be sooooo proud to be American, blablabla bullshit I have heard since 9/11. Same rhetoric. I am so sick of it. It's all about making people fearful so they want to be protected and proud so they want to vote for someone who is your "real, proud, unwavering, brave" American president. Feed people's fear and patriotism and they will not ask for facts and solutions.
    Seriously. What do people think having a particularly "brave" president will actually do? Stand on the front lines with our troops? I wish. McCain's experience in combat has infinitely less to do with the actual practice of the presidency than Obama's law degree by any sane man's measure; if anything, having actually fought in a war and having seen the horrors of combat should make him hesitate to go to war, not make him want to pursue it for a hundred years Utter foolishness, if you ask me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Exactly. It's the same vague fear mongering, "we will never surrender to the enemy," we should be sooooo proud to be American, blablabla bullshit I have heard since 9/11. Same rhetoric. I am so sick of it. It's all about making people fearful so they want to be protected and proud so they want to vote for someone who is your "real, proud, unwavering, brave" American president. Feed people's fear and patriotism and they will not ask for facts and solutions.
    It's a political commercial. If it focused on facts and useful information it wouldn't be as popular.

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    Right. Unfortunately most people, or at least the ones who are targeted for viewing, are really just there to be susceptible to emotional manipulation, as far as the commercials are concerned.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  38. #38
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    Mccain's ad is obviously playing towards my parents generation. they eat that shit up.

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