Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: The Main Diff between Ps & Js

  1. #1
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You could use those, or just use this one:

    P's have more fun
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    You could use those, or just use this one:

    P's have more fun
    Hmmm, I think I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm a J and I like to go out, party, and have good sexy-time. [/borat voice]

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Hmm...so is there a Right way and Wrong way to have fun? Or would a J just be like that about responsibility/work/etc.?
    HellifIknow... Fun = Fun... whether it's right or wrong... well that I couldn't tell ya. I'm a J and I have my responsibility/work/etc... but I'd also say that I'm more about having fun and living an interesting life (in my point of view at least) than pretty much anything else.

  4. #4
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My fun?


    Blowing shit up.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  5. #5
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    the only thing that differentiates them is that J's have a sense, both internally and expressed, of control, no matter how subtle. anyone can be impulsive, freedom-seeking, etc....it's about how you do it. P's naturally flow.

    esper, all of those are generic and not necessarily true.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  6. #6
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i'd say you're right on.

    check this out it says almost the same thing:

    http://socionist.blogspot.com/search.../irrationality

    basically on the face of things it looks like rationals get more stuff done.

    irrationals are more likely to be assessing what really needs to get done now that _________ has happened anyway. lol

    i love being irrational, it's the beauty way to go.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  7. #7
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think Js tend to like to add structure or have a structure, whereas Ps tend to want things less structured and more spontaneous. I think this is where conflicts can arise to some extent... Js can get frustrated by Ps lack of structure or since they operate better with structure they resist efforts to make things more malleable and less structured (that would be too chaotic). Ps can get frustrated if they feel that someone else is trying to impose a particular strucuture upon them because this can feel imprisoning, or "rigid." I don't know if routines have anything to do with it. I tend to think Js can feel more comfortable with routines... but that may be a lot of nonsense.

    I imagine it might have something to do with energy in a sense... perhaps Ps tend to adapt things so that they get around to them when they feel like it whereas Js tend to have a more structured approach to getting stuff done. Ps seem to adapt to changing "structures" around them, flowing with changes... Js tend to try to organize the changing "structures" around them into an unchanging structure of their choosing...

    Maybe.

  8. #8
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    i'd say you're right on.

    check this out it says almost the same thing:

    http://socionist.blogspot.com/search.../irrationality

    basically on the face of things it looks like rationals get more stuff done.

    irrationals are more likely to be assessing what really needs to get done now that _________ has happened anyway. lol

    i love being irrational, it's the beauty way to go.
    Sunshine, let's blow shit up.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  9. #9
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    j's tend to put structures or plans in place to avoid problems, p's tend to be able to just skirt round them without the forward planning, I think.

    It looks like j's make a path and steer in the current, p's are able to make the tide work with them.

  10. #10
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    I think Js tend to like to add structure or have a structure, whereas Ps tend to want things less structured and more spontaneous. I think this is where conflicts can arise to some extent... Js can get frustrated by Ps lack of structure or since they operate better with structure they resist efforts to make things more malleable and less structured (that would be too chaotic). Ps can get frustrated if they feel that someone else is trying to impose a particular strucuture upon them because this can feel imprisoning, or "rigid." I don't know if routines have anything to do with it. I tend to think Js can feel more comfortable with routines... but that may be a lot of nonsense.
    this isn't the crux. the reason why J's appear structured is because they are idealists, in the sense of focusing on the intellect instead of the way things are. wanting reality to be in tune with your ideals typically produces a structured attitude. P's are entwined with nature as it is, which is why they seem spontaneous.

    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    They have a SENSE of control, but don't they also have a NEED for control?

    I wonder if, in the same sense, P's NEED to be able to follow their flow?

    What if two P's flow different ways?

    Or if two J's have different ideas of preferrable control or arrangement of things?

    Would that make the two Ps or two Js clash or conflict?

    Or do two Ps or two Js generally mold to eachother?
    like I said, it's an idealistic vs. naturalistic attitude. anyone can have a need for control in any context. the rest of your post makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    J's tend to put structures or plans in place to avoid problems, P's tend to be able to just skirt round them without the forward planning, I think.

    It looks like j's make a path and steer in the current, p's are able to make the tide work with them.
    the first part is generic. anyone with a brain will want to avoid problems. anyone can be forward planning...you think INTp's arent? the second part is a perfect metaphor.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  11. #11
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Sunshine, let's blow shit up.
    What about setting stuff on fire?

  12. #12
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ha! That works well too. Smashing old printers also feels fantastic.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  13. #13
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Ha! That works well too. Smashing old printers also feels fantastic.
    2 for 1 set fire to bunch of aerosols, and watch them all blow up.

  14. #14
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    !

    Don't tempt me!
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  15. #15
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Sunshine, let's blow shit up.
    *looks around* yeah, where to start? lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  16. #16
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    J’s think there are certain ways of doing things and it is up to use to find those out and do it the right way
    P’s think that they way you’re already doing it is natural and just fine

    J's ask what is the Right way
    Ps ask what is the Natural way
    I think all the others are true, but these aren't. There's no right way to do something, just...a way which can be better suited for a given aim-purpose-whatever.

    The only difference that I see as clear between me and my P friends is changing decisions-plans-etc at the last minute (which can drive me mad). Work ethic isn't strongly type related (some ESTps and INTps can be extremely hard workers).

    However, I'm afraid we can't speak about P-J if we do not relate ourselves to the different subtypes. As things stand, an ESTp-Ti would be more alike to a J type over a P type, whereas an ENFj-Ni would be very alike to the description of a P type.

    Also, NJ type of J is different than SJ type of J which is different than NP, etc.

    As far as J qualities go, I have generally observed that, if we place temperaments on a continuum, from most P to most J, we have

    NP SP=NJ SJ

    which means that many SPs can be on the short terms as structured as an NJ, because NJ are not particularly structured on the short terms (tricky).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  17. #17
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    Hey, strrrng, what I mean is, P's want to go with what they feel is natural, but what if one P feels that in a different way than another P? Does one usually conform to flow with the other, or do conflicts arise?

    J's want to have structure, but can one J's ideal structure conflict with another J's? Do they usually find comfort in another J's structure, or are they likely to conflict, trying to impose their own structure?
    I wouldn't say that going with what one feels is natural is exclusive to P's. Everyone feels everything differently, so conflicts are always possible. yeah, a conflict between J's is intense lol.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  18. #18
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    J's pick the method they consider to be the best to accomplish the goal and stick to it
    P's pick the method they consider to be the best to suit what they feel like doing at the time and may deviate from it as their mood changes
    there is no wording that will make that idea correct
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  19. #19
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    So you are saying:

    J's pick the method they consider best suits the goal and stick to it
    P's pick the method they feel best suits their mood and deviate from it as their mood changes
    Mmm no I don't think so. It depends on what they're doing, I mean many times I do what I feel like too. It depends if there's something important, or not. If there's something important to do yeah, I tend to try to find the best method. Otherwise, no.

    But see, I will give you an example of leisure of a J and P couple. J couple: Okay, tomorrow we can do this till about 6 pm, then we can go there till about 9 pm, then we can meet with X at about 11
    Whereas I see the P couples as never deciding previously what to do. They may go out and look what's open and go.

    This is a rough outline which is good only for statistical purposes - sometimes J couples will go somewhere without any plan, but it's not their natural mode of operation.

    Btw I think that pursuing goals only when you want to is...human everybody generally does that
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  20. #20
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    So you are saying:

    J's pick the method they consider best suits the goal and stick to it
    P's pick the method they feel best suits their mood and deviate from it as their mood changes



    Yeah I can see a P with high work ethic. They want to accomplish the goal. They just wait until they FEEL like pursuing the goal and then they really attack it. ^_^ Right?

    I've always said I have good work ethic but this is exactly what I do haha. ^o^
    Hey, I can see what you mean. I think it comes down tho to get the right semantics to describe it Sometimes that's where metaphors are handy in this sort of situation, like mine earlier..vague, but precise.

  21. #21
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ethod. Otherwise, no.

    But see, I will give you an example of leisure of a J and P couple. J couple: Okay, tomorrow we can do this till about 6 pm, then we can go there till about 9 pm, then we can meet with X at about 11
    Whereas I see the P couples as never deciding previously what to do. They may go out and look what's open and go.
    And then there are the J/P couples (like me and lots of others I know) where they're on vacation and the J will say "let's have a plan for the day" and the P rolls their eyes and says "can't we just explore and see what happens?" So the compromise is: they plan one or two things that they know they want to do. The rest of the time is go with the flow.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  22. #22

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    And then there are the J/P couples (like me and lots of others I know) where they're on vacation and the J will say "let's have a plan for the day" and the P rolls their eyes and says "can't we just explore and see what happens?" So the compromise is: they plan one or two things that they know they want to do. The rest of the time is go with the flow.
    I imagine I hang out with a bunch of P people... this is how 90% of things I do tend to happen. I'll always plan a part of the day and the rest of the day is just running around doing whatever the other person wants to do...etc.

  23. #23
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    I imagine I hang out with a bunch of P people... this is how 90% of things I do tend to happen. I'll always plan a part of the day and the rest of the day is just running around doing whatever the other person wants to do...etc.
    Yea and actually my ESE husband is pretty flexible when it comes to this kind of thing. He's more willing than some to take a wait and see approach. He doesn't bug me about not planning every minute of every day. We get along well when traveling.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  24. #24
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    i love being irrational, it's the beauty way to go.
    Take off! aye!

  25. #25
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ps do have more fun.
    asd

  26. #26
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    TIM
    ESE
    Posts
    3,535
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Hmmm, I think I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm a J and I like to go out, party, and have good sexy-time. [/borat voice]
    You sound like my husband.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  27. #27
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    xxxj's like to hang out only on Saturdays whereas xxxp's can quickly decide to go out and have a drink any day of the week. I find j's behaviour irritating! They are robots! Who cares if it's Tuesday, let's go let's go let's go!
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  28. #28
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,122
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    xxxj's like to hang out only on Saturdays whereas xxxp's can quickly decide to go out and have a drink any day of the week. I find j's behaviour irritating! They are robots! Who cares if it's Tuesday, let's go let's go let's go!
    You're not supposed to drink on the weekdays.

  29. #29
    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxhell TN
    Posts
    987
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    And then there are the J/P couples (like me and lots of others I know) where they're on vacation and the J will say "let's have a plan for the day" and the P rolls their eyes and says "can't we just explore and see what happens?" So the compromise is: they plan one or two things that they know they want to do. The rest of the time is go with the flow.
    When my little sister (whom I think is ENTp) and I traveled to Australia & New Zealand, she didn't want to do any of the planning - but she *wanted* to have an itinerary. I mainly wanted to roam and get a feel for things, but I knew she'd be bored off her ass and eventually turn to abusing me for it. So I did a bunch of research on the internet, came up with way more than we could possibly do in a stay thrice as long, and told her to pick her favorites. Then, according to the location & expected amount of time we'd spend on each activity, I chose likely hostels to stay in.
    When we actually got there, we'd pick what we wanted to do that day from off the list - we also tried to choose according to several things that were close to one another. There were several times when we found something along the way that hadn't come up in the internet research (naturally), and so we vetoed the plan in favor of the unknown. We were traveling in the off-season, so it was always easy to book a hostel with little or no advance notice (also, OZ & NZ have a huge backpacking industry and fairly cater to tourists, even in smaller towns), and in NZ we bought a bus pass that allowed us to hop a ride with as little as two hours' notice (we traveled to five diff cities that way!).
    All in all, I feel like I had to plan more intensively than I would have preferred, but our trip went incredibly smoothly, and Sarah only got truly bitchy one time when I booked a hostel that turned out to be a further walk from the bus station than we initially thought. There were tons of things that we didn't get to do, but we knew it'd be that way anyway ... and we both enjoyed deviating from the plan when an opportunity presented itself.
    Ironically, trying to make sure Sarah was pleased & occupied probably kept me a little more motivated to do more, too ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

  30. #30
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    And then there are the J/P couples (like me and lots of others I know) where they're on vacation and the J will say "let's have a plan for the day" and the P rolls their eyes and says "can't we just explore and see what happens?" So the compromise is: they plan one or two things that they know they want to do. The rest of the time is go with the flow.
    Yeah, I used as an example J-J and P-P because in that case the differences were more clear.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  31. #31
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater
    xxxj's like to hang out only on Saturdays whereas xxxp's can quickly decide to go out and have a drink any day of the week. I find j's behaviour irritating! They are robots! Who cares if it's Tuesday, let's go let's go let's go!
    that is a stupid generalization
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  32. #32

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    that is a stupid generalization
    No doubt.

    I go out way more during the week than on Fridays and Saturday...lol

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    xxxj's like to hang out only on Saturdays whereas xxxp's can quickly decide to go out and have a drink any day of the week. I find j's behaviour irritating! They are robots! Who cares if it's Tuesday, let's go let's go let's go!
    Umm. I make it a point to hang out every Saturdays.
    I am a xxxp robot.
    INTp
    sx/sp

  34. #34
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,866
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    To Jessica129: I know, but in Spain you can do whatever you want as long as you don't fuck with others

    To strrng: Yes, a stupid generalization but it works x % of the time
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •