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Thread: Code Geass (anime)

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Default Code Geass (anime)

    From the anime Code Geass (go google it or something),

    type the protagonist Lelouch/Zero,

    and his best friend/rival/enemy Suzaku.

    Lelouch seems Machiavellian in principle, willing to do anything including dirty tricks, sacrificing the lives of his allies, lying to people in order to achieve his goals, which are 1) to find out who and take revenge on his mother's killer, and 2) to create a world where his sister can live in peace. Lelouch has the power of Geas, or mind control, and uses it, at times ruthlessly, for his own purposes. He wants to 'live the path of carnage', as he says it, and believes that 'change won't happen if you wait'. Both statements seems Se in nature. However physically, he's very frail and weak, panting like crazy while running up a short flight of stairs. He's a genius however, his IQ is extremely high, though I believe that doesn't really have a bearing on what type he is. He enjoys chess a lot, mainly because he wins almost every single game. He doesn't take defeat well. There's also evidence that he's the serious type, disliking Fe to some extent. When killing certain members of royalty, he always tells them that he does it to 'punish' them. I used to think ISTj when I first saw him, but now it seems ISFj. The dislike of Fe, the coldness, the motive of revenge and punishment seems to all point towards ISFj.

    What do you guys think?
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    No one watches Anime around here? That's cryable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelouch_Lamperouge
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Logos's Avatar
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    LeLouch could represent the dark side to the Gamma revenge narrative, while Suzaku probably represents the idealistic Alpha/Delta. Personally my favorite characters within the 8 episodes I just recently watched have been Lloyd Asplund and his assistant Cecile.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    I've only seen a few episodes, but Lelouch seemed LSI to me. I see Ti > Fi. Not sure about his friend... IEI had crossed my mind?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I've only seen a few episodes, but Lelouch seemed LSI to me. I see Ti > Fi. Not sure about his friend... IEI had crossed my mind?
    I see Gamma of some variety with Lelouch, especially when the theme of revenge and righting-wrongs is a theme of Gamma quadra. I actually saw him as an ENTj who received some power and resources to go through with his plan.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    I'll have to watch more to offer a more informed response, but for now I'll say that the "chess" theme is very Ti > TeNi. And that so far the character has an IJ feel to him.

    And that it's very unlikely that an LIE would be so comfortable dealing out harsh punishments without (and maybe even with) an ESI there telling him that he should go ahead and do it. Remember that the dual seeking function is one of the (if not the) weakest function. Fi dual seeking + Fe Role + weak Se = being too lenient.

    The only Gamma type I could see him being is ESI, if he was really overdoing it with his role.
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    omg, I love this show!

    We're only on episode 6 now, and since I'm more interested in it I'm going to stop reading this thread until we've caught up.

    For now though I'll say that I still think the show is, overall, Beta. And that Lelouch seems more LSI than ever.
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    Lelouch inarguably is an INTJ.
    It is perceptible that he is Introverted and Judging.
    However, the middle 2 letters, which represents Lelouch's functions of his brain, are apparently N and T, instead of S/T or S/J.

    You can be certain that Lelouch when you know what Lelouch's role is in the anime, as a supreme strategist. Lelouch is capable of foreseeing the future, which is a function of the N. A person with the function of N also tends to be revolutionary, which clearly defines Lelouch. From the anime, you can also clearly tell that he is lacking S (therefore having more N), since he looks at the future so much, that he forgets about the current situation (one reason why C.C. criticizes Lelouch for being blunt sometimes). N and J working jointy also represents a person who can see future and is able to convert his thinkings quickly into actions, but can fail miserably when he encounters an occurance he was not expecting (one siginificant weakness of the J function).

    If you agree so far, then you are assuming that Lelouch is IN_J. (Note: The T/F functions is said to be flawed sometimes, and can be difficult to determine at times.) Something INJ's have in common is that they are highly intuitive, great natural leaders, and quite difficult to get to know. As you know, I implied earlier that Lelouch is a T instead of an F. Here's a counterexample, in the case when Lelouch is an INFJ. If Lelouch is an INFJ, he would be an intuitive natural leader that CENTERS the INDIVDUALS's BELIEFS, FEELINGS, and MORALS. He would prefer people's feelings over thinkings in his leadership. This would not make sense, because he does not consider his faction members' beliefs too much. This would make Lelouch an INTJ. INTJs would be logic-oriented and intuitive simultaneously. INTJs are also very individual thinkers. Lelouch is a person who would individually think over his plans over and over again, before consulting anyone else. INTJs work straight towards their goals and although they do not highly consider their followers' beliefs, etc., with their natural leadership, they still end up producing benefits to the faction. From those facts, Lelouch would presumably be an INTJ.

    Let's take relate the cognitive functions of "INTJ" to Lelouch.
    (Cognitive functions of INTJ in order: Ni, Te, Fi, Se)
    Here is how Lelouch rolls. Lelouch's...
    Primary function is Ni: Lelouch is a guy who catches unusualties and contradictions easily.
    Secondary function is Te: Lelouch logically formulates plans with his factions, usually after he uses his Ni which absorbs data.
    Tertiary function is Fi: Lelouch, nonetheless, considers people's feelings, especially in his younger sister, in his term of leadership. This function is also called the relief function, so when Lelouch is in stress and can not think straight, he relies on this function to remind himi that he's fighting for people important to him.
    Inferior function is Se: As I said earlier, he sometimes can not realize the most practical things. (One way you can fool INTJs )

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    Give me a passage of his words, and I can probably tell you. The Wikipedia article wasn't very useful, but it does give me the impression that he's a shadow type who defends his background functions against his foreground functions. Very Hitleresque, and his manner reminds me of Saddam.

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    I lost interest in the show after the episode where he uses geass on Shirley. I'm sure we'll watch it again, but now that we're through the Bleach filler, Bleach always seems like a better choice atm.
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    Lloyd Asplund: ILE
    Cecile Croomy: SEI
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    We're a few more episodes in now, and Zero still seems really damn LSI to me, btw. An ESI who's stuck on his role function would be my second choice.
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    I still see him as an LIE who finally has enough -toys to bring his plans to fruition. Oh well. Result > Process.
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    Default I changed my mind about Lelouch

    I think he's ESI and Suzaku is LSI.
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    I should add that he's not written from a Gamma perspective. And he's sort of psycho.
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    Default Code Geass

    The purpose of this thread is a far-ranging discussion of Code Geass from a socionics, information, and psychoanalytic perspective.

    In my study of personality, I prefer to compare traits of fictional characters with those of real people. One of the means by which I make these comparisons is through a process of "defancification", the elimination of fantastic events from an observed chain of events. I see this as a legitimate tool because it effectively allows me to reverse-engineer the character concept. "Superpowers" can be easily designed by taking stock of a character's exceptional talents and skills and "taking them up a notch". Correlating super powers to type, while not a foolproof approach (standardized magic defeats the notion completely), nonetheless enables one to get a stronger sense of the trait the power exaggerates, particularly what differentiates it from other such traits. Code Geass takes the notion of personality-based superpowers to a whole new level, a case I will offer later in the thread. For now, I would like to concentrate on the concrete talents and skills of the cast, particularly their dual-types. Rather than taking a character-by-character approach, as I did with the Castlevania thread, I intend to look at the characters episode-by-episode, starting with the first.


    The Day a New Demon was Born


    In this episode we are introduced to Lelouch and Suzaku. It's been proposed that Lelouch is an LSI, and his behavior in this episode is consistent with that typing. He does not seem that interested in possibilities except to the extent that he can use them to deduce the form of immediate situations. He is highly aware of his environment. He has a strong sense of social responsibility, as indicated by his decision to look for survivors in the crash of the transport truck.


    The White Knight Awakens


    In this episode we see more of Collin. She remarks about her determination to "stay strong" and prevail, a sign that beta Se is her primary focus. Suzaku exhibits strong concern for Lelouch's safety, and a determination to fight the "terrorists". Lelouch conducts an experiment on a Britannian pilot (whose name is not yet offered), for purposes of deducing the limits of his ability.

    We are also introduced to Prince Clovis. Vis a vis his emotional nature and self-described "acting", we can safely surmise he's an ENFJ. (his one-sidedness with regard to the matter of the Japanese opposition is another indicator of the same).
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-17-2011 at 04:50 PM.

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    I'm going to be holding this discussion over the next month, a few episodes at a time. Feel free to add whatever you observations you may have. My intention is make this a study at once in personality diagnosis and in minimal information: in each episode I will explain the limits of diagnosis based on the information offered about a character to that point. There are also some peculiarities of relation between the characters which are explainable by socionics, which I will be pointing out as they arise. Further, I hope we can gain new insights into the functions by scrutinizing the remarks and deeds of the characters.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-17-2011 at 04:17 PM.

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    The False Classmate





    His name is Zero





    In these episodes we are introduced to Lelouch's superb stagecraft. "The most important element of strategy is the human element" -- Lelouch reveals himself as a master of emotional warfare. He so carefully portrays the image of his alter-ego that no one realizes it is him -- he tells falsehoods without the slightest hesitation nor the slightest quiver. It is hardly a priority to be "him" -- in a world where ethics is a convenience of the moment, integrity is a convenience ill-afforded. It is the mark of an ethical relativist.

    How to reconcile the subordination of ENFJ's theatrics to ISTJ's deliberative strategems? The answer is simple: Lelouch's dual-type complex is easily described as ISTJ-ENFJ. Later in the series we will see additional confirmation of this proposition.

    Back to Suzaku, we see signs of a strong will to ethical judgment, and a striking naivete. These are the strongest signs yet that he is ENFJ -- his respect for law and order contrasts with the soldier's self-assured militarism, suggesting an ISTJ EM type.

    Shirley, in her own way, seems to have her own "cop" tendencies, as is shown by her determination to keep the champaign bottle from being opened. However, it is unclear what her EM type is at this early stage. She does, however, show notable ESFJ tendencies.

    One more note about Lelouch's stagecraft: remember the chess game against the baron in the first episode? Lelouch moved his king first, describing the move later as symbolic. However are we really to believe him? Consider the baron's reaction: he ridiculed Lelouch, yet ultimately lost the game to him. "Consider the baron's reaction" -- there is the key: the behavioral aspect (beta Ni) is directly correlated to the emotional response (beta Fe). Therefore, certain acts of behavior will trigger predictable emotional responses, which will then shape behavior. It's a double-back game: act unexpectedly; throw your opponent off guard; exploit his reckless behavior. This is the fundamental mechanic behind Lelouch's thinking, which Ti and Se respectively analyze for purposes of timely and successive exploitation.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 02-01-2011 at 10:59 AM.

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