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Thread: Description of Introverted Sensing Si in MBTI

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Description of Introverted Sensing Si in MBTI

    I know I've done this before, but those of you who still need convincing that MBTT is not the same as socionics, not even functionally, and that all Augusta has done is take the functional ordering as the same as MBTT (roughly), read this. It is completely different to Si in socionics.

    Proposed definition #1: You need a map

    Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is overwhelming in its complexity and patternlessness, and that the only way we can find our way through it is with a map. To make our way through the unpredictable, we need to anchor ourselves in some way, to know what, in that vast chaos, to focus on. (See Orienting.)
    Proposed definition #2: The unknown is dangerous, so anchor yourself in the known

    Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that the unknown mostly contains threats that will undermine life and order. Given the precariousness of life--so many things have to be jjjjust right--the odds of something unknown being beneficial are very low. Consequently life demands that we carefully filter the unknown before letting it into a position of influence, that we construct barriers against the unknown, etc.

    For example, in engineering, one is primarily concerned with designing systems that won't fail even though most of the exact causes of failure are not knowable in any precise way. Engineers learn many different ways in which things fail, and learn to design so that the things work, or at least major disasters don't occur, even when things go wrong--as they inevitably will. A bridge is typically designed to hold a load 6 times bigger than the biggest anticipated load, simply so it will resist unexpected troubles--shearing winds, or cracks in unexpected places, or who-knows-what that might come along and can never be fully anticipated. The full breadth of relevant dangerous factors is inherently unknowable.

    An everyday example is to allow some extra time when leaving on a trip. The reason for leaving some extra time is because the world is filled with unpredictable things that could make you late. Very few unpredictable things could come along and make you early if you left late.

    From the Si standpoint, the more you're going to depend on something, the more carefully you'd better inspect it, because you never know what unknown things might go awry, you only know that most of them are bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    It is completely different to Si in socionics.
    Who has ever claimed otherwise? Of course the functions are very different -- they must be different since the functions orderings are different while the types are the same.

    Example: An SEI and an ISFP are the same type, but the former is supposed to be SiFe and the latter is supposed to be FiSe. So the functions must be described differently in order to capture the same behaviours and the same attitudes in the same type. The SEI and the ISFP are just two different names for the exact same type. It is one type, not two.

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    Rather than about Si, it seems to me to be about lack of Ne and paranoid Ni:

    Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is overwhelming in its complexity and patternlessness, and that the only way we can find our way through it is with a map. To make our way through the unpredictable, we need to anchor ourselves in some way, to know what, in that vast chaos, to focus on. (See Orienting.)
    Proposed definition #2: The unknown is dangerous, so anchor yourself in the known

    Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that the unknown mostly contains threats that will undermine life and order. Given the precariousness of life--so many things have to be jjjjust right--the odds of something unknown being beneficial are very low. Consequently life demands that we carefully filter the unknown before letting it into a position of influence, that we construct barriers against the unknown, etc.
    And it's close to Jung's conception of Introverted Sensing; as described, it's closer to the mindset of a LSI.

    I have no doubt that SLIs can relate to it to some extent, however, again, I think the focus is rather on low Ne and Ni, rather than on Si as such.

    For instance, in socionics: "Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that the unknown mostly contains threats that will undermine life and order. " is certainly NOT how is primarily defined.

    It is, however, close to how Jung defined it, which also explains a lot of the confusion some people get into.
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Who has ever claimed otherwise? Of course the functions are very different -- they must be different since the functions orderings are different while the types are the same.

    Example: An SEI and an ISFP are the same type, but the former is supposed to be SiFe and the latter is supposed to be FiSe. So the functions must be described differently in order to capture the same behaviours and the same attitudes in the same type. The SEI and the ISFP are just two different names for the exact same type. It is one type, not two.
    Okay, I see where you're coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    paranoid Ni
    Something I need to clarify here - when people talk about "paranoid" functions, does that relate to a specific area of model A, or does it literally mean paranoid as in that individual is paranoid about things relating to that function?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
    Something I need to clarify here - when people talk about "paranoid" functions, does that relate to a specific area of model A, or does it literally mean paranoid as in that individual is paranoid about things relating to that function?
    In this case, I meant "paranoid about things relating to that function", Ni in that case; I don't think that it applies specifically to any area of model A, but it would make sense only if applied to weak functions (that is super-id or super-ego) that the person happens to have to focus on.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Ah right, I see. Thanks.
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    Does it fuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Si in MBTT
    is basically Se(/Si)-creative in socionics.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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