SLI-IEE duality discussion (ISTp and ENFp)

[Creepy-]

Yeah i do this type of shit all the time. Honestly i have truly given up some really good opportunities for various dumb reasons. I had my mates sister all over me one night at a party, and because everyone was watching / mates sister i let it go. She now works for a model agency here and has got even hotter. I doubt i could handle her but i should have got some when i had a chance lol. I say just service up a storm.

Another story from about a week ago.. I went out with my good ISTp friend and this girl from work. We had a fun night, plenty of booze and laughs. She seemed pretty into me, saying we were soul mates and all this stuff and being really close to me. So she suggests we got back to her house and we do. We order pizza and they eat a slice, she goes into her bedroom for a second and ISTp just follows her in there and closes the door. I hear them talking then about 1 hour later i hear them having sex, while im sitting in her lounge room watching the wizard of oz and trying to shut up her annoying cat. Anyway next morning i heard her wake up and go WHY WHY WHY NOOOO really loudly. This is what alcohol does to you folks. ISTp friend tries to convince me that they didn't have sex which i just said lol bullshit.

Anyway all is fair in love and war, but i have lost a bit of respect for both of them now. Im going to her party tomorrow night and if i get the chance, hopefully i can get with someone, hopefully one of her friends. I certianlly wont be keeping the ISTp company much.

Quick questions about the workings of the IEE mind:

What made you lose respect for them - the fact that they had casual sex, the fact that it was drunken casual sex, or some other thing?

What is the difference between what they did and what you wish you had done w model-agency girl and/or what you hope to do w drunken-sex girl's friends?


[EDIT: I just read over this and realize it could sound judgemental, but it's not - I really am just genuinely curious. Oh, and good luck, I guess, w your mission or whatever at the party... just don't break any hearts ]

[meatburger]

Quick questions about the workings of the IEE mind:

What made you lose respect for them - the fact that they had casual sex, the fact that it was drunken casual sex, or some other thing?

No worries. This is just my mind, and my mind is perhaps an odd mind. Well firstly i still tend to like to move slow normally. I dont normally just bone anyone just because i feel like it. Its half i think that she didn't even really like him, kind of liked me but did it anyway. They weren't even really attracted to one another, i think they were just delta ST's and thought with their genitals. The main difference between what didn't happen with that other girl is that i tried to do what i thought was right, even though in hindsight i kind of wish i didn't.

The main thing that really annoyed me though, was they did it in my presence. No one wants to be left in the lounge all night listening to two of his friends have sex. I would never have left him in the lurch like that. Anyway its not a big deal, its a prime example of IEE cruelty though that i will try get them back at least a little, just once

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Then, you would have asked him to join in?

[meatburger]

Then, you would have asked him to join in?

Lol nah prob not, I just wouldn't do it. Besides, he prob has some infectious diseases between you and me

[jewels]

I don't understand this cruelty thing...I don't think us ENFps are cruel. Can someone explain this?

[Creepy-]

No worries. This is just my mind, and my mind is perhaps an odd mind. Well firstly i still tend to like to move slow normally. I dont normally just bone anyone just because i feel like it. Its half i think that she didn't even really like him, kind of liked me but did it anyway. They weren't even really attracted to one another, i think they were just delta ST's and thought with their genitals. The main difference between what didn't happen with that other girl is that i tried to do what i thought was right, even though in hindsight i kind of wish i didn't.

The main thing that really annoyed me though, was they did it in my presence. No one wants to be left in the lounge all night listening to two of his friends have sex. I would never have left him in the lurch like that. Anyway its not a big deal, its a prime example of IEE cruelty though that i will try get them back at least a little, just once

Gotcha - that makes sense. And yeah, Delta ST's thinking w drunken genitals can be a bit... well, not always deserving of respect.

[Creepy-]

I don't understand this cruelty thing...I don't think us ENFps are cruel. Can someone explain this?

Yeah, I don't agree that "cruel" is an appropriate word for ENFp's either - at least not in my experience.

[Simon Ssmall]

I have been called many names, starting from "Ass" ending with "You are all I ever wanted" yet I have never been called cruel.

[meatburger]

I have been called many names, starting from "Ass" ending with "You are all I ever wanted" yet I have never been called cruel.

It was the wrong choice of words. ENFps being "mean" sometimes. Yeah thats possible.

[Simon Ssmall]

I can be very mean If I'm hurt, sometimes for no real reason also. Passive-aggressive added with a dash of honesty and proper mind-fucking along with high morals. Yep, I can certainly see myself as a real ass sometimes, one of those you can't really blame about anything, the worst kind. Thank God it happens very rarely as it is really not something I'm proud off.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

No worries. This is just my mind, and my mind is perhaps an odd mind. Well firstly i still tend to like to move slow normally. I dont normally just bone anyone just because i feel like it. Its half i think that she didn't even really like him, kind of liked me but did it anyway. They weren't even really attracted to one another, i think they were just delta ST's and thought with their genitals. The main difference between what didn't happen with that other girl is that i tried to do what i thought was right, even though in hindsight i kind of wish i didn't.

The main thing that really annoyed me though, was they did it in my presence. No one wants to be left in the lounge all night listening to two of his friends have sex. I would never have left him in the lurch like that. Anyway its not a big deal, its a prime example of IEE cruelty though that i will try get them back at least a little, just once

This isn't type related. I know of two ENFp's who would do this and more.

Also to add, ENFp's can be cruel like anyone else. Infact if they want to be they can be really good at it, like Simon's comment ;D

[meatburger]

I can be very mean If I'm hurt, sometimes for no real reason also. Passive-aggressive added with a dash of honesty and proper mind-fucking along with high morals. Yep, I can certainly see myself as a real ass sometimes, one of those you can't really blame about anything, the worst kind. Thank God it happens very rarely as it is really not something I'm proud off.

Yeah i know where your comming from man

This isn't type related. I know of two ENFp's who would do this and more.

I do agree that any type could do this and perhaps certian behaviours could not be said to be type related. I see absolutely no reason why ISTp's wouldn't think with their genitals more than ENFp's though. Ive seen it time and time again. They are sensing types who can more easily repress their feelings. It makes sense to me but doesn't really mean they are bad people. Of course as always with socionics its possible that my own limited experiences are not representative of ISTp's or ENFps in general.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I do agree that any type could do this and perhaps certian behaviours could not be said to be type related. I see absolutely no reason why ISTp's wouldn't think with their genitals more than ENFp's though. Ive seen it time and time again. They are sensing types who can more easily repress their feelings. It makes sense to me but doesn't really mean they are bad people. Of course as always with socionics its possible that my own limited experiences are not representative of ISTp's or ENFps in general.

You could be right. Interestingly i've found ESTj's sleeping around more than ISTp's. I sometimes wonder if ENFp's who do it do it for fun without wanting to think about the possible consequences.

Sex drive plays a part as well ;D

I'm sorry to hear about that girl though, I assume you like(d) her?

[meatburger]

Sex drive plays a part as well ;D

I'm sorry to hear about that girl though, I assume you like(d) her?

True! Man ESTj's are totally up there i agree.

Yea bro. Its like Thomas Edision would have said. Im not failing, im just finding heaps of girls who aren't right

[consentingadult]

I sometimes wonder if ENFp's who do it do it for fun without wanting to think about the possible consequences.

Not likely. The problem in this respect is, imho, Ne with Fi. For me, screwing around is not an option because I'm afraid it will be discovered. I think this might be projection by the IEE. We assume other people can see what we can see, thus will find out.

If I had my way, I would have a harem and be open and honest about it. Honest!

[tiny_dancer]

while im sitting in her lounge room watching the wizard of oz and trying to shut up her annoying cat.

This visual made me laugh. The Wizard of Oz??

I just don't have any inclination to sleep with someone I don't know or am not interested in. Not sure why. Meh. No thanks.

[tiny_dancer]

For me, screwing around is not an option because I'm afraid it will be discovered.

There might be some truth to this. I've been party to far too many dinner-table conversations where people are discussing who slept with who and laughing over the details. Admittedly, some of the stories are funny, but no way am I voluntarily putting myself up for that.

[Sirena]

I just don't have any inclination to sleep with someone I don't know or am not interested in. Not sure why. Meh. No thanks.

Same here. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why there was any regret here about having missed an opportunity to sleep with a random person. I just don't get how having slept with someone one night would have the potential of being so satisfying that it would be a cause for regret later on. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it. Anyone can do whatever floats their boat. I just don't understand how not doing it would be of much significance. I mean, it's supposed to be "casual" for a reason, right?

[consentingadult]

Same here. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why there was any regret here about having missed an opportunity to sleep with a random person. I just don't get how having slept with someone one night would have the potential of being so satisfying that it would be a cause for regret later on. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it. Anyone can do whatever floats their boat. I just don't understand how not doing it would be of much significance. I mean, it's supposed to be "casual" for a reason, right?

People do all kinds of intimate things together, just because they enjoy it. Why not sex?

Actually, this is not a real question. I know from experience that having sex with random stangers doesn't satisfy, because 9 out of 10 times, there is no sexual click (e.g. because you don't know each other emotionally). But then there are still all those people that you do know better to some extent.

And obviously, on a more statistical level, men and women are different in their attitudes.

[tiny_dancer]

I just don't get how having slept with someone one night would have the potential of being so satisfying that it would be a cause for regret later on.

I think that's a male - female difference. And maybe some type stuff mixed in too.

People do all kinds of intimate things together, just because they enjoy it. Why not sex?

I went to dinner once with a guy who tried to convince me that we should become fuck buddies because having a consistent sexual partner was so much better than going to a prostitute. "It's so much more intimate that way." Gee, just what I want to do in my spare time. Save him from going to a prostitute.

I decided it wasn't polite to laugh my ass off right then and there, so I let him pay for the check and lost his number instead.

[Creepy-]

I went to dinner once with a guy who tried to convince me that we should become fuck buddies because having a consistent sexual partner was so much better than going to a prostitute. "It's so much more intimate that way."

Not only is it infintitely more intimate, but it's also a lot less expensive.

Maybe you should be a little more considerate, TD. In these times of economic distress, some people are being forced to cut down on their monthly prostitute expenditures. Clearly it is your responsibility as a friend to help him out.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think that's a male - female difference. And maybe some type stuff mixed in too.



I went to dinner once with a guy who tried to convince me that we should become fuck buddies because having a consistent sexual partner was so much better than going to a prostitute. "It's so much more intimate that way." Gee, just what I want to do in my spare time. Save him from going to a prostitute.

I decided it wasn't polite to laugh my ass off right then and there, so I let him pay for the check and lost his number instead.

At least he is being more honest about things than you.

[tiny_dancer]

*sigh* You're right, dual. I'm such a bitch. I should have directed him over to Piedmont Ave. I'm certain he could find a well-priced hooker there.

He was quite the money-grubbing type. He also tried to convince me to do some architectural work for him at less than half of what my firm bills me out for.

What a great date. lol

[tiny_dancer]

At least he is being more honest about things than you.

Honest? Not so much. Anyone that has a pretense of wanting to get to know you and then suggests that you sleep with him and also do work for him for free is not honest.

I consider the check an 'inconvenience charge.' He had no interest in me at all as a human being, just using me for whatever he could get out of me.

-edit-
Okay - I see your point. I guess he was being 'honest' in the sense that it was blatantly obvious that he was just looking for someone to use. He didn't come right out and state it, but it was direct enough.

I guess I should have just said, "You're an idiot. Fuck off." That would have been much more honest, yes. Next time I will do that.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

*sigh* You're right, dual. I'm such a bitch. I should have directed him over to Piedmont Ave. I'm certain he could find a well-priced hooker there.

He was quite the money-grubbing type. He also tried to convince me to do some architectural work for him at less than half of what my firm bills me out for.

What a great date. lol

I was joking, eh, but I suppose I do have a point. He could have led you on into thinking he wanted a 'proper' relationship with you, and in the end you would feel hurt and stuff after he dumped you. He was honest that he just wanted a friends with benefits, fair play to him.

You on the other hand kept quiet about it all for the sake of just a free meal.

I'm just saying he was honest in his intentions, and maybe you were being a little deceptive by playing along for the sake of a free meal. Why didn't you just tell him and split the cheque like an adult?

That's IEE cruelty!

Edit: Just to add I see you've responded to me in a different quote. I quoted this one thinking it was in response to mine, as it appeared directly under it.

[consentingadult]

I think that's a male - female difference. And maybe some type stuff mixed in too.



I went to dinner once with a guy who tried to convince me that we should become fuck buddies because having a consistent sexual partner was so much better than going to a prostitute. "It's so much more intimate that way." Gee, just what I want to do in my spare time. Save him from going to a prostitute.

I decided it wasn't polite to laugh my ass off right then and there, so I let him pay for the check and lost his number instead.

hahaha, I wish I had the nerve to propose things like that. Except for the prostitution part, which is really the most stupid and self-centered argument I ever heard. Who believes that such an argument would get them into a woman's panties?

[tiny_dancer]

You on the other hand kept quiet about it all for the sake of just a free meal.

LOL. No, it wasn't for the 'sake' of a free meal. Trust me, if he had propositioned me sooner, I would never have gone on the date with him. Honestly, it was trying to get me to do work for him that really pissed me off. If people want to have a casual sexual relationship - fine. Not my cup of tea, but it's not that big a deal. He definitely could have approached it in a far smoother manner than saying that he's too cheap to pay for a prostitute, would you sleep with me instead? lololol

But don't insult my intelligence by offering to hire me for less than you pay your pool boy because you think I'm dumb enough to accept such a ridiculous offer.

At that point, I don't give a damn if I'm being 'deceptive' or not. He can kiss my ass. lol

[Creepy-Cyclops]

LOL. No, it wasn't for the 'sake' of a free meal. Trust me, if he had propositioned me sooner, I would never have gone on the date with him. Honestly, it was trying to get me to do work for him that really pissed me off. If people want to have a casual sexual relationship - fine. Not my cup of tea, but it's not that big a deal. He definitely could have approached it in a far smoother manner than saying that he's too cheap to pay for a prostitute, would you sleep with me instead? lololol

But don't insult my intelligence by offering to hire me for less than you pay your pool boy because you think I'm dumb enough to accept such a ridiculous offer.

At that point, I don't give a damn if I'm being 'deceptive' or not. He can kiss my ass. lol

No probs. I don't know anything about the money/work situation. He could have handled things better re the friends with benefits from what you are saying. Essentially though, it doesn't sound like he was intentionally trying to piss you off, so in effect you were passively-aggressively punishing him because you just didn't like who he was as a person, even though he wasn't intentionally or doing anyone any harm?

I'm asking because i'm genuinely curious how your Fi works in this situation. Am I correct?

[tiny_dancer]

it doesn't sound like he was intentionally trying to piss you off

No, he wasn't.

you were passively-aggressively punishing him because you just didn't like who he was as a person

Passive-aggressive in that I allowed him to pick up the check, but decided I didn't want to see him again? Meh - the check is a cultural thing - maybe even Southern thing? I've offered to split the check a million times, and guys don't let me. They usually do after we've been dating a while. I've given up trying for the first few dates. But I will say that I wasn't fighting over it on this one. I just wanted the whole thing over with.

I didn't deliberately make him pay because I didn't like him, though. That really wasn't my thought process. I was being facetious earlier when I joked about the check because I was remembering how much he irritated me. I told him very clearly I wasn't interested in that kind of a relationship and I didn't want to work for him either. I did not 'play along' with any of THAT so he could pay the tab.

Passive-aggressive because I didn't just get up and walk out? I don't know. Should I have done that? I think that would be really rude, even if I didn't like him.

he wasn't intentionally or doing anyone any harm?

Mmm - right at that moment, he wasn't. But his intention was for me to allow him to use me for as long as he found necessary in a 'business deal' that placed me in an unfavorable position. He was just pushing it as far as he could to see when and if I'd bite. That kind of thing bothers me a lot.

I'm sure he viewed the sexual relationship as a 'fair deal' that we'd both get something from, despite the fact that I found his approach distasteful.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

No, he wasn't.



Passive-aggressive in that I allowed him to pick up the check, but decided I didn't want to see him again? Meh - the check is a cultural thing - maybe even Southern thing? I've offered to split the check a million times, and guys don't let me. They usually do after we've been dating a while. I've given up trying for the first few dates.

I didn't deliberately make him pay because I didn't like him, though. That really wasn't my thought process. I was being facetious earlier when I joked about the check because I was remembering how much he irritated me. I told him very clearly I wasn't interested in that kind of a relationship and I didn't want to work for him either. I did not 'play along' with any of THAT.

Passive-aggressive because I didn't just get up and walk out? I don't know. Should I have done that? I think that would be really rude, even if I didn't like him.



Mmm - right at that moment, he wasn't. But his intention was for me to allow him to use me for as long as he found necessary in a 'business deal' that placed me in an unfavorable position. He was just pushing it as far as he could to see when and if I'd bite. That kind of thing bothers me a lot.

I'm sure he viewed the sexual relationship as a 'fair deal' that we'd both get something from, despite the fact that I found his approach distasteful.

Ok thanks. It's just that you were initially saying you allowed him to pay as a form of compensation to you. It's not that big a deal the guy was an ass anyway, in at least as much as how he handled it. I wanted a peep at the reasoning!

I recall being out on a date before and I really felt it wasn't working out. We went for some drinks and a chat. Half way through it I said that I felt it wasn't working out and that I was sorry and thanked her for her time, and I offered to make sure she got in her taxi safely. (we weren't driving as we'd decided to meet for drink and a chat in the evening.)

Always tricky these situations to see how to proceed best!

[tiny_dancer]

It's just that you were initially saying you allowed him to pay as a form of compensation to you.

No - I was joking about that. It was crude, but I was joking. The guy ticked me off, that's all.

[jewels]

what a hideous guy TinyDancer!! I'll bet you're glad you don't have to see that one again!! eek. And this was a first date??

I've had guys ask me "back to their place" on a first date, but never have I heard of a guy proposing a friends w/ benefits thing as better than a hooker, sheesh. Actually, I did tell one guy there was no chemistry once (on a first date) and said we could be friends. And he asked if that meant friends with benefits. I was like "no."

I agree that what is worse though, is when they pretend to be your boyfriend and you later figure out that they are essentially doing the friends w/ benefits thing w/o telling you. That's not nice. It's also bad when they pretend to be your friend and then propose the FWB thing out of the blue. I had one guy tell me he had to marry someone of his race, but he'd like to pretend to be "in a relationship" with me so we could sleep together....geez, I hate guys like that! *end rant*

[tiny_dancer]

Actually, I did tell one guy there was no chemistry once (on a first date) and said we could be friends. And he asked if that meant friends with benefits. I was like "no."

I agree that what is worse though, is when they pretend to be your boyfriend and you later figure out that they are essentially doing the friends w/ benefits thing w/o telling you. That's not nice. It's also bad when they pretend to be your friend and then propose the FWB thing out of the blue. I had one guy tell me he had to marry someone of his race, but he'd like to pretend to be "in a relationship" with me so we could sleep together....geez, I hate guys like that! *end rant*

And people wonder why I don't date much. Gee, I'm missing so much.

(Actually, that was the second date. The first date he appeared relatively normal.)

[Satan]

And people wonder why I don't date much. Gee, I'm missing so much.

(Actually, that was the second date. The first date he appeared relatively normal.)

If you only attract losers. Then reject the losers. And you may start to attract people who don't like hanging around losers.

[implied]

Not only is it infintitely more intimate, but it's also a lot less expensive.

Maybe you should be a little more considerate, TD. In these times of economic distress, some people are being forced to cut down on their monthly prostitute expenditures. Clearly it is your responsibility as a friend to help him out.

lmao!

god this is the worst thing i've ever read, but wow. yeah, this is why dating is so bad.

[Kristiina]

I dunno, it can be down to personal perspective. It can be said that the ENFp tries to use emotional manipulation on their duals (as can any F type) but the ISTp becomes callous enough not to give a shit. Yes ENFp's can jump around at the next sight of interesting things, but ISTp's can withdraw for no real reason also.

Basically, imo, what we have to remember is that some things aren't type related, in that you may be same type as someone else, but it still depends on the person for how you behave/respond/use your functions and your personality.

cute post.

[3RainbowSprinkles]

I am an ENFP and my currently love interest is an ISTP. When we were high school sweet hearts and after 5 years of dating (one year long distance for college). Things ended very, very badly. We went from seeing/talking to each other everyday to nothing. Complete silence for a year and change. We were young and made basically all the mistakes you can possibly make in a relationship with another person--and even spent so much time together we knew what it would feel like to live with each other--so relationship wise, we were pretty developed. But because of all those mistakes, they rolled up and we ended very very badly. it makes me sad just thinking about it.

Well, over the year and change we had apart i tried to train myself to believe that we were never going to be together when in my studies of psychology/socionics, i learned that my ex was my dual--which explained why after so long I still longed to talk to him. It made me go after trying to talk to him again and finally we talked recently and things have been going fantastically! We met up and talked for hours and he asked to see me again. Nothing was awkward--even silences. It's like we were meeting the adult version of our kid selves...craziness how life works huh? :] Things are slow now--which is fine. Slow and steady wins the race--but I’m having a bit of a problem.

It’s very strange because I usually like to go after men that I am interested in...but I feel like I’m constantly waiting for my sweet ISTP to make the first move and I’m sometimes confused about whether he feels the same way for me as I do for him--and then there it goes--those ‘little’ things ISTPs are famous for. I understand that my ISTP partner isn’t going to be comfortable making the first move ( i wonder if he’s waiting for me to do something or wondering how much i like him?) so i’d like to try to make more of an effort.

Since day one of talking to him I’ve had my guard up. I can feel it because i actually think about what I want to say to him before i say it (the rest of my life seems to flash by and my mouth just pours things out) and i draw a blank when we’re talking too....strange behavior for me. Even some of the men that I’ve dated in the past year or so have told me that i’m a tough shell to crack...How should i go about letting my guard down? What should i open up to the ISTP about myself without ruining he mystery of what might happen tomorrow? How should I get the ISTP to open up to me more? Any advice?

thanks guys :]




Helpless romantic ENFP<3

[duality is cringe]

If you feel like making a move, and you know that's what you want, do it. You don't need anyone's advice, and whoever tells you "do this because ISTps are like this" make sure it makes sense not just mentally, but instinctively also, because they don't know your ISTp or you, or any of the nuances that you're tuned into. Follow your own lead and you'll do great.

Yes to this!

[Slacker]

Someone PM'd me asking me to describe me and my husband when we were younger. Since I didn't meet my husband till my mid- to late-20s, I don't know if I can get to as "younger" as that person wanted, but I'm happy to talk about when we first met.

I'd just broken up with an LIE guy two weeks earlier. I was at a party, and initially I just heard his voice, which is very soft and low, and he has an Australian accent, and I was interested. So I found him and started talking to him. He was a bit drunk and therefore probably more open than usual. We decided to get together the next day. He was visiting a friend of his who had studied abroad in Australia and he wouldn't be in town long.

So we got together the next day, and he was completely silent and hardly even grunted a few words out when we were together. I thought the date went very poorly and thought he didn't like me, which I felt badly about because, although he was silent, I felt very comfortable with him and would have liked to get together again. But I wasn't so impressed by him that I thought it was that big of a deal.

Imagine my surprise when he called me later that same night to ask if we could get together again. So we did, and again he was pretty silent but didn't seem as angry. We talked a lot. No, actually I talked a lot and he watched me talk. I would say he listened but I don't think I could tell if he was really taking it in. Anyway, it went OK but still I wasn't sure if he liked me. He seemed very mysterious. But I didn't really think too much because he lived in Australia so the relationship couldn't go anywhere anyway.

So he kept calling and we kept going out while he was in town, and he kept being quiet and I kept wondering why he wanted to go out all the time if he didn't like me. Before he went home to Australia he fixed my computer (which was always messed up in those days) and got me to stop using American Online and to start using what I called "the regular internet", which at the time intimidated me. In those days, AOL was completely separate - you couldn't get to "the regular internet" if you had AOL. I thought it was so he could email me but I later learned he could have emailed me when I was using AOL. I think he just put his nose up at AOL in retrospect. I also had a Mac and he put his nose up at that too.

He talked about visiting me and I thought he was just talking, but then he actually did visit me. And when he was visiting that time he talked about moving to the US, but in a weird way. Like he said that he should visit in the winter to make sure he could handle the winters. And he'd look at help wanted ads to see if he'd be able to get work. And he'd look at houses for sale and talked about how much he hated my apartment. (No garage.) At least him working here would have required us getting married, although I don't think he actually said anything about marriage and I didn't make that connection at the time. And I wasn't sure if I should take him seriously at this point. I kind of didn't, and after he left I dated other guys.

Then he came back in the winter and asked if I wanted an engagement ring, and I said that I'm not really into jewelry and I probably wouldn't wear it, and he said he'd come back on a fiance visa in the spring and the way it worked, he could stay for three months and either we'd have to get married or he'd have to leave. So if we got along after being together so long, we'd get married, and if not he'd just head home. He also told me that if I dated anyone after he left he would NOT come back, and he was not at all happy that I'd dated anyone else when he was gone because he thought I understood how serious he was. But he hardly talked, and if he did it was just about practical matters and not directly about wanting to marry me. He started calling me on Friday and Saturday nights to see when I would get home. And overseas phone calls were very expensive back then. I felt guilty that I'd gone out with other guys because it was obvious at this point that he did want to get married all along and I really wanted to as well, and if I'd known that I wouldn't have gone out with anyone when he'd been in Australia earlier.

So he came back and brought money for a down payment for a house, because he HATED my apartment. And we ended up getting married after two months instead of three. But he really never actually asked me if I wanted to marry him. Or maybe the asking if I wanted an engagement ring was his way of proposing? Though I said I didn't want one and that didn't make him think I didn't want to get married. I don't know how that worked in his head.

[Ritella]

that is SO cute!
oh my god, please help me find an LSE.