Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 42

Thread: Erwin Rommel

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Erwin Rommel


  2. #2
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Perhaps LSI.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  3. #3
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The introductory section is worth a read; gives some basic insight into him. Admirable person. The rest is all fact-based and simply elaborates on the first section using said facts, and so would provide no opinion of him, more just what he's done, where he's gone, who he's been around etc.

  4. #4
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    was he the nazi that liked playing with tanks?

  5. #5
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    was he the nazi that liked playing with tanks?
    In giant sandboxes, yes.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  6. #6
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    He wasn't a Nazi. He wasn't even a fascist. Just a fantastic military commander.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It would have been more admirable for him to not wage war on behalf of Germany.

  8. #8
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    It would have been more admirable for him to not wage war on behalf of Germany.
    It would have been more admirable if there was not a war to fight in at all and when we do not have a choice as to where we are born, good people find themselves seemingly arbitrarily assigned to opposing sides. Virtue or admiration should not be devalued or valued by the side, but by the man and the life.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  9. #9
    Dioklecian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    4,304
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Esfj was my decision last time I tried to type him. I will try again.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  10. #10
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian View Post
    Esfj was my decision last time I tried to type him. I will try again.
    try again.

  11. #11
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ST, Beta > Delta. Thinking ISTj. Unfortunate way to go.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  12. #12
    Dioklecian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    4,304
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    try again.
    I am happy actually. It's either INTJ or ESFJ, ESFJ is it I think.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  13. #13
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Alpha? Why Alpha? I thought excellent military commanders were, by definition, Se valuing.

  14. #14
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Alpha? Why Alpha? I thought excellent military commanders were, by definition, Se valuing.
    No.

  15. #15
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Alpha? Why Alpha? I thought excellent military commanders were, by definition, Se valuing.
    I think strong Se types of Alpha and Delta can also be excellent military commanders. For instance, I think Dwight Eisenhower was LSE (how "excellent" he was is another discussion) and I'm convinced that Ulysses Grant was SLI.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  16. #16
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    No.
    Explain yourself then. Otherwise your contribution is pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    For instance, I think Dwight Eisenhower was LSE[...].
    He's another example of an MBTT INTJ typed as an LSE (Schwarzenegger being the other). Perhaps there's something fruitful in this idea.

  17. #17
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Explain yourself then. Otherwise your contribution is pointless.
    There is no more point in saying that all excellent military commanders are by definition Se valuing than saying all intelligent people are by definition NT types. For example ESTjs would easily be excellent commanders. As do ESFjs. Even if they don't value Se. Any type can make an excellent military commander. Their style of leadership would just be very different. And their motivations for becoming a military commander would be different. E.g. an INTj wouldn't likely be a military commander because they want to conquer people for fun but for some deeper ideological reason.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    It would have been more admirable if there was not a war to fight in at all and when we do not have a choice as to where we are born, good people find themselves seemingly arbitrarily assigned to opposing sides. Virtue or admiration should not be devalued or valued by the side, but by the man and the life.
    Or the things he did, like wage war on behalf of Germany.

  19. #19
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Or the things he did, like wage war on behalf of Germany.
    So what would you propose he do? To what standards are you holding him here? Yes, he fought on behalf of Germany in World War 2, but war is war and I do not see why he should be vilified for fighting for the Germans anymore than Patton should somehow be praised for fighting for the Americans, although he had no real control over his nationality of birth or where the leaders of his nation points the guns of the military.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    So what would you propose he do?
    Well, I don't know what was really going on through his head. If anywhere in the back of his mind he was having doubts about his actions and the path that Germany was taking, but went along with it out of a stoic sense of duty, then he was a murderer and should have either defected or killed himself (which he did, for other reasons). But if he actually believed he was doing the right thing, then he didn't do anything wrong.

  21. #21
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Well, I don't know what was really going on through his head. If anywhere in the back of his mind he was having doubts about his actions and the path that Germany was taking, but went along with it out of a stoic sense of duty, then he was a murderer and should have either defected or killed himself (which he did, for other reasons). But if he actually believed he was doing the right thing, then he didn't do anything wrong.
    Why is the second point permissible but not the first?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Why is the second point permissible but not the first?
    Because the first instance he knows he is doing something wrong, and only goes along with it out of a sense of duty, and in the second one he has no reservations at all and is totally convinced has the moral high ground.

  23. #23
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Because the first instance he knows he is doing something wrong, and only goes along with it out of a sense of duty, and in the second one he has no reservations at all and is totally convinced has the moral high ground.
    Is that not just as morally reprehensible?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Is that not just as morally reprehensible?
    What goes on in his head determines the reprehensibility of his actions.

  25. #25
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    What goes on in his head determines the reprehensibility of his actions.
    But can a distinction of moral hierarchy of thought be as so basic as you make it out to be? Can or would there not be other factors to consider?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  26. #26
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just read the Wiki Article. Im getting all my information on him according to the wiki

    He seemed like a man with honour. He wasn't a Nazi just a german. It states that he refused hitlers orders to murder the jews and he treated his POW's very well. He also had respect for his adversaries and tried to wage a "war without hate". He buried one of the allied commanders with full millitary honours etc.

    Im not very good at typing him though. Seems to possess Se i think. He seemed to be a very very agressive commander, and his sheer agressiveness supprised the hell out of the Allies and won him many victories. I felt quite sad reading about him,and that they left him to kill himself. When they came back and he was sobbing in the car. I can just imagine him sitting there.

    Hilter considered him one of his most favourite generals until he was suspected to be plotting hitlers death (probablly unlikely). Many people seem to think Hitler was ENFj so i suppose ISTj would make some sense. He looks like an ISTj to me. I just talked to my ISTj dad about him and he has respect for him
    Last edited by meatburger; 03-07-2008 at 11:17 PM.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    But can a distinction of moral hierarchy of thought be as so basic as you make it out to be? Can or would there not be other factors to consider?
    Yeah, it can be multi-faceted, but I just have a hard time seeing the gray areas when it comes to fighting for Hitler.

  28. #28
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Yeah, it can be multi-faceted, but I just have a hard time seeing the gray areas when it comes to fighting for Hitler.
    But was he fighting for Hitler or for Germany?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  29. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    But was he fighting for Hitler or for Germany?
    No idea, but consciously trying to separate the two in that instance seems pretty immoral to me.

  30. #30
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    No idea, but consciously trying to separate the two in that instance seems pretty immoral to me.
    Any more immoral than separating the moral action "Because the first instance he knows he is doing something wrong, and only goes along with it out of a sense of duty, and in the second one he has no reservations at all and is totally convinced has the moral high ground"? And if you read in this authoritative biography HERE () about Rommel, you can see that his deeds in the war and "fighting for Germany/Hitler" is not as clear cut of a distinction as seem to be trying to make.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  31. #31
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    But if he actually believed he was doing the right thing, then he didn't do anything wrong.
    Are all certain people moral?

    It seems like under this light, Hitler would be ok, so long as he thought he was doing right, but Rommel if he harbored doubts but opposed the pervading moral transgresses would not be. This seems backwards to me.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  32. #32
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just started reading his biography. I'm pretty sure he is an SLE.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  33. #33
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh, and if anyone is interested, I think he is an 8w7 sp/sx or sx/sp. (Oh look, how convenient, Ezra is typing a brilliant commander as the same as him...)

  34. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I just started reading his biography. I'm pretty sure he is an SLE.
    I agree.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  35. #35
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah. SLE works. And the enneagram proposal seems right, as well (maybe even 8w9?).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  36. #36
    Creepy-male

    Default

    A big issue in typing an military commander is whether they excelled with strategy or tactics.

    Strategy is concerned with long term plans, campaigns, and goals. Strategic warfare is concerned with having victories that lead a person closer to the plan, campaign objective, or goal. Sometimes a "Strategic Victory" is not always a "Tactical Victory". An example of this is a commander who can capture an weapons plant, helping secure a valuable strategic asset, but in the process he loses alot of men and weaponry himself, making it a tactical loss. Strategic warfare is the forte' of MBTI xNTx, especially xNTj types - or Kiersey "Rationals" or "Coordinator Rationals", this is why they type Eisenhower as an INTj because he masterplanned the entire normandy invasion and developed many far-out creative ideas to keep a solid supply line immediately after the invasion.

    Tactics are more concerned with dealing the present situation in such a way to come out on top. Tactical warfare takes place on "the line" and is concerned with winning victories in the most immediate sense. It require less strict planning and more skill at practical adaptation. For this reason most MBTI and Kiersey people type brilliant tacticians as "xSTp" types or "Artisan" or more specifically "Operator Artisans" because of there good awarness/senses and their ability to adapt well to the present situation.

    xSTj types or "Guardians" excell in logistics and training.

    xNFx types are rare in the military and usually play a more "morale" based role.


    ---------------------

    k so why I bothered to go through all of this is because I think rommel is an ISTp/j, at least in MBTI terms because he apparently excelled at tactics rather than strategy, plus he trained by the german military which at the time was heavily ISTj-valuing.

  37. #37
    strangeling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,704
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Pressfield, in Killing Rommel (2009), p. 7
    Self-restraint, even chivalry... distinguished the combatants on both sides throughout the North Africa campaign... The leading exemplar of this code was Rommel himself. When orders from *h-i-t-l-e-r mandated the execution of captured British commandos, Rommel tossed the document in the trash. He insisted that the Allied prisoners receive the same rations he was given. He even wrote a book about the conflict called Krieg ohne Hass (War Without Hate). Memoirs of the North Africa campaign attest that, fierce and brutal as much of the fighting was, relations between individual enemies retained a quality of forbearance that seems, today, almost impossible to imagine.
    *The forum is filtering this word in the text, so it is written differently so people know who is being talked about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel
    Courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility.
    -----
    One must not judge everyone in the world by his qualities as a soldier: otherwise we should have no civilization.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel
    Be an example to your men in your duty and in private life. Never spare yourself, and let the troops see that you don't in your endurance of fatigue and privation. Always be tactful and well-mannered, and teach your subordinates to be the same. Avoid excessive sharpness or harshness of voice, which usually indicates the man who has shortcomings of his own to hide.
    This quote was interesting to me because it sounded like something someone with repressed Te would say. He's representing an ideal of how people should be, but perfection is a hard thing to live up to; I can relate this to how I thought when I was younger.

    I really like this dude.

  38. #38
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel

    I think he's SLE but subtype and not typical of his type. He was very well developed in his super-ego imo.

  39. #39
    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,021
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Famous SLI. Eschews the limelight, ultimate tactican, defies authority, leads by example, adaptable.
    ISTp
    SLI

    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

  40. #40
    DaftPunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Alps
    TIM
    SiTe 6w5 sp/so
    Posts
    730
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel

    I think he's SLE but subtype and not typical of his type. He was very well developed in his super-ego imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Famous SLI. Eschews the limelight, ultimate tactican, defies authority, leads by example, adaptable.
    XSTp makes sense after reading your link. It seems Se>Si what make you guys think Ti>Te?

    I kind of like the Idea that he was ******'s conflictor though it says nothing about his type

    EDIT: LOL ******

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •