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Thread: Cravings and functions

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    XoX's Avatar
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    Default Cravings and functions

    I have never understood how people can have cravings that they can't control. You know like food cravings, substance cravings, ... anything.

    I have discussed this issue with some people and it seems I lack a thing which I would call "recalling the memory of a sensation". People who have e.g. food cravings seem to have a very strong memory for the taste of food. They can bring back the taste of food, which they have previously eaten, into their mouth. This can create a craving for that food. And then they must go find that food and eat it. The same thing happens with every substance I think.

    Now I wonder what function(s) is this related to? Can you personally recall e.g. the sensation of what chocolate tastes and then get a huge craving for chocolate? The same thing can happen with sexual experiences I think. I can't recall those sensations too well either.

    However once I actually am exposed to a sensation, e.g. good food or good sex, I might get a "temporary craving" i.e. I might find it hard to stop. I just want more food and more sex and more whatever goodies I am getting. However once the situation is over I don't have much sensory memories left. Only abstract memories. As in I might have a videotape in my mind of the situation I was in but I can't recall the sensations I felt.

    Of course the first guess is that this is Si related thing. However I know some non Si ego people who can recall sensations at least to some extent and who do get strong cravings.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    It's funny, but I've wondered this myself. I figured it was an Si-value or Si-strong thing. Not to say that anyone can't be subject to strong cravings, but maybe they are slightly more likely to have them? In my own experience, I enjoy sensations very, very much, but like you I don't 'remember' them that well once time has passed. It's hard to say though.
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    If I crave it, i have to have it. Something I can't control. It's all about remembering the pleasant feelings I got from whatever it was in the past.

    For whatever that's worth.

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    yes; i'd say you're displaying your poor sensory functions.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    I can recreate senses as well. Si is my suggestive function, for whatever it's worth.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Here's a post from Steve at Socionix that might be relevant:

    http://forum.socionix.com/index.php?...indpost&p=8689
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Here's a post from Steve at Socionix that might be relevant:

    http://forum.socionix.com/index.php?...indpost&p=8689
    It didn't show the message.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    You have to be logged in, and I don't want to copy it here unless i have his permission. But he sometimes looks here so maybe he'll copy it. You could register over there to read it too.

    It's about recalling sensory experiences. I identified with it and talked to him a bit about it in the chat at #socionix.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    You have to be logged in, and I don't want to copy it here unless i have his permission. But he sometimes looks here so maybe he'll copy it. You could register over there to read it too.

    It's about recalling sensory experiences. I identified with it and talked to him a bit about it in the chat at #socionix.
    Oh. OK. Thanks.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    I think food cravings are generally a sign of less than ideal health or an unbalanced diet.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    ^that's kind of what I thought too.

    Anyway, I crave things sometimes, but I don't really know what...

    "craving" seems to equate to "mild addiction" in a way I think... I mean you can also crave feeling a particular emotion, or playing a particular game, or...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think food cravings are generally a sign of less than ideal health or an unbalanced diet.
    ROFL @ your Si PoLR. Sorry but you just don't get it. It isn't that kind of craving.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    i highly doubt that ashton or steve would have a problem with you copying socionics-related material.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think food cravings are generally a sign of less than ideal health or an unbalanced diet.
    Really? You mean you don't live a generally healthy life but then have a yen for something you haven't had in a while (, or not too long ago, for that matter)?

    Seriously, I conduct myself fairly well and work out every day, but when I've got Mongolian Barbeque or sushi on my mind, I've gots to have it. I swear, every time I have it it's like I'm rediscovering nirvana. Damn, I'm hooooongry!
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i highly doubt that ashton or steve would have a problem with you copying socionics-related material.
    <aestrivex> ashton
    <torchie> is it possible
    <torchie> for there to be
    <esper> actually i went and looked up ISFp descriptions & functions
    <torchie> an Se-INFp
    <@Ashton> niffweed
    <esper> & there's alot of similarity there too ^_^
    <aestrivex> there was some thread on socionix that slacker mom wanted to copy some description from
    <@Ashton> what was it of?
    <aestrivex> she decided not to because she didnt want to impugn you by copying things without your knowledge
    <aestrivex> some functional description
    <aestrivex> i dont remember
    <@Ashton> ah
    <@Ashton> Well
    <@Ashton> She's welcome to it.
    <aestrivex> ill tell her

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I think the permission you would need, if any, is Steve's, and I would be absolutely shocked if he had any objection.

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    Ok - I said at the time he should post it here, and he didn't, so I thought maybe he'd specifically chosen not to for some reason. But since that doesn't seem to be the case, here it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    Si – External Field Dynamics (EFD)

    Si to me actually seems similar to Ni in many ways. Both are dynamic field functions, and both have this fundamental essence that seems to develop and emerge over time. The Ni essence of course deals with internals and sees interconnected dynamic processes that are happening beneath the surface, while Si focuses on the flow and interaction of things that exist in the external environment. With both Dynamic Field Functions, the perceiver is a part of what’s being seen, personalizes the experience, and harmonizes themselves with the flow.

    A Si person achieves harmony with the external environment around them (primarily the physical environment – in which people can also be included, as well as the way those people in the environment make the perceiver feel). Everything the Si-perceiver experiences around them has a character and makes them feel a certain way. They are constantly taking in experience; watching things go by, gliding from one point in time through the next. If you compare Si-eyes to Se eyes, the Si-eyes will look much more even keel and stable – even “flat” or constant, because they are experiencing inter-connectedness with their surroundings, as their surroundings pass through time. Si-eyes are one with what they are seeing, whereas Se-eyes are more likely to dart from point to point like a laser-targeting system, leaving what they have just seen in the past, and constantly moving on to something else.

    Si people frequently go through a day where each day has a different character, and there’s this core feeling as to the flow of the particular day. In fact, their environment may even seem different to them on one day or even one time, than on another. For example, one could be at a particular indoor location where there is no sunlight (no windows in the room), and the room will actually have a different feel, and even a different look to it, at 9 in the morning vs. 6 at night.

    Also, looking at a particular object in the environment from one point of view could make the observer feel completely different than if they were viewing it from another. For example, one could be observing a suspension bridge across a river, while standing on one river bank. This particular side of the river could be the side where the person lives (even if their house is 100 miles further inland), where the person goes out, experiences life, and has more associations with the scenery that exists on this side. The other side of the river could be the side where the person goes on vacation, and doesn’t spend nearly as much time. So if the person is standing on the “familiar” side of the river bank looking at the bridge, they may even attach all of the familiarity and “local-ness” and whatever other associations the person has made with that side of the river to the tower of the bridge which is closest to this side. They may also somehow tie the architecture of the bridge, with the feeling they get from observing the “character” of the bridge, and blend it with all of the Si associations they have with the particular side of the river that the tower is closest to. If the person moves to the other side of the river and looks at the bridge against the new background, the person will feel like they are more connected to the Si-associations of the other side, and the perspective of looking at those associations changes.

    Associations of things in the environment play a major part in Si experience. An environment will evolve and appear different with new experience, giving the perceiver a different feeling while looking at the exact same physical setting (or certain people within the physical setting) at two different points in time. Si-types hold on to past experience of environments and seem to frequently blend past and present, because for Si types, external experience is all continuous – it is seamless over time. What was can be almost as real as what is. Something Si people experience in the present can act as a “trigger” for re-experiencing the flow they had at a different time period. For example, Si-types can form associations around songs, in the sense that sometimes when they hear a song being played, they remember what they were doing and the context in which they first heard the song. Hearing the song in the present makes them re-live the experiential flow of their life at the time that they first heard the song – the time when the Si was attached to the song (including any other Si experiences that were added along the way – such as if the person had experiential associations of a song, and then went and saw the artist perform the song live – they may add the experience of the environment of the concert venue to the whole core their experience of the song). Smells or sights can act as triggers as well. For example, seeing a piece of furniture that was in the house of a deceased grandparent can suddenly bring the perceiver back to the time period where they saw the furniture in its proper place in the grandparent’s house. They will also likely recall exactly what the room looked like in striking detail, and all of the personal attachments and associations they had with that room, house, and grandparent within the context of the room and house – and of course smelling a piece of furniture (like the pillows on a couch) can be even more of a trigger of the past experience of being in the grandparent’s environment, and even the other things that were going on in the Si-person's life at the time.

    How Si Differs from Se

    Si differs from Se similarly to how Ni differs from Ne. With both object-perceiving functions (Ne and Se), the focus will be more localized, and there isn’t any emphasis on a context. Se is also a positive feedback function like Ne, in the sense that it will keep going, looking for stimulation after stimulation, while Si goes after only certain stimuli (sometimes repeatedly) that will be in harmony with the Si flow.

    Se people will seem more intense because of the constant need to jump around and seek stimulus after stimulus in the external environment, while Si types have a smoothness and stability with the Si flow. Se types may find this Si flow boring (sometimes painfully boring and deadening, particularly in the case of ENXjs). The Se types can see Si’s flow as one constant line progressing over time, and they frequently feel the need to turn the line into a wave, or something with more variance, so they may end up causing what Si types see as a “ruckus”.

    As I mentioned earlier, Si can be very personal, while Se is not. Sometimes if I try to talk about all these associations, combinations, and images I’ve blended together about things in the environment to an Se person, they have no idea what I’m talking about, and wonder why I do that, and don’t think it’s relevant. Se on the other hand focuses on things that are directly visible in raw form – no added ingredients.
    Last edited by Slacker; 02-27-2008 at 02:38 AM.
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    Steve's Avatar
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    Yeah it's fine. Slacker Mom thanks for your consideration though . I just didn't post it here cause I've noticed that in the past when people talk about things in an abstract way or describe things as having a certain abstract feel, it is dismissed as talking out the ass. But yeah I'd be curious to see if anyone relates to that Si description . - And I wouldn't be surprised if some people here who CLAIM they're not Si-valuing relate to this .

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    ftr i didn't realize that this was steve's description and not ashton's; i didn't look at it very carefully. sorry.

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    I have very bad impulse control and a general inability to stick to plans which require a restraint on my sensory/even intellectual desires. It's just that the desire for the thing becomes so strong as the sensation of pleasantness associated with the object is recalled. It is not how the object tastes or whatnot, but merely the sense of pleasure associated with it. I'm a huge hedonist and not proud of it at all, as it is one of my most debilitating aspects of my entire personality.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

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    I think the inability to resist might actually be a genetic trait. For instance, but of my parents were heavily involved in substance abuse of all sorts and, if they stopped, it took a mountain to stop them. They were the mightiest of the mighty when drugs came along and nothing could stop them from having it. Even when sober for extended periods of time, you could see the addictive personality leaking into virtually everything they did. It was always an either/or thing for them in what they did and there was no in between. That's an addictive personality and that's what I believe is genetic.

    The thing that XoX characterized, though: the ability to recall the sensations of past experiences, is most probably just an Si thing. However, I believe it is important to not completely identify the recollection of sensations with the inability to resist the desire to relive those sensations. They are very different things, and while one may cause the other, that isn't the necessary case for irresitable desires.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    That is a very good description in my eyes, Steve.

    Also, mysticsonic, I hear you on having an addictive personality/differentiation between that and being able to recall sensations. A friend of mine has a similar history re: his father and has many of the same hedonistic tendencies. He recognizes it as a problem but generally any attempts to abstain lead to him feeling depressed.
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