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Thread: ENFp & INFj: an explanation of functional analysis

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    Default ENFp & INFj: an explanation of functional analysis

    Hi all. I am posting this information for each type. I know the information is already available to all, but from what I've seen you have to cross reference to various charts and whatnot. This will give everyone an opportunity to see a breakdown of their type's analysis without having to cross reference. What I'd like is for people to discuss how various functions manifest themselves, such as how having for a Role function would be displayed in an INFj.



    INFj

    The EGO Block (1+2) Most pronounced functions, dominant over functions 3 & 4

    1. Program function - also know as the "foundation," a person places the most confidence in this function, and molds his or her lifestyle to suit this function; a person's self-esteeme and feelings of worth are based on the usage of this function.

    2. Creative function - also know as the "realisation," some effort is required to use this function, but it comes easy. It is the base function for a person's creativity and is used in conjunction with the 1st function.

    The SUPER-EGO Block (3+4) Weak and suppressed by functions 1 & 2

    3. Role function - a person may unconsciously attempt to realize this function in order to avoid the embarrassment of having the weaknesses of other functions discovered; though usually suppressed by the 1st function, it is passive and seeks not to intrude on others. A person may be sensitive to criticism in this function, and may only implement it as an informational source to aid other functions.

    4. Vulnerable function - also known as the PoLR , a fragile function by which insecurities are realized, and usually suppressed by the 2nd function. If pressure is placed on this function from an outside source, a person may react with irritation or hostility. It often manifest itself in a state of severe immaturity. This function could be likened to a naked hungry and screaming baby, unable to take care of itself. Since the 3rd function neglects to inform and support, it often relies on the 6th function for protection and survival.

    The SUPER-ID Block (5+6) Neglected functions by which a person allows to be manipulated by outside influences, usually assists functions 3 & 4

    5. Suggestive Function - also known a "dual-seeking," this function is typically the most vulnerable to ouside influences and manipulation. It is not uncommon for a person to physically request help from another in regards to this function, as it often acts as a companion and helper to the 3rd function and indirectly to the 4th function. Sometimes a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

    6. Activation Function - also know as the "Hidden-agenda," this function willfully seeks to express itself and to become energized into a state of confidence or creativity. It may attempt to compete with other functions and become dominant, deceiving many to believe it is a strong and resourceful function. In reality, it often implements itself as a disguise or a feint intended to feed, cloth, and protect other functions. It could be considered a parental function to the childish and immature 4th function. Often a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

    The ID Block (7+8) Weak and unconscious functions, usually ignored or seen as intrusive. The actual existance of these functions has been questioned.

    7. Control Function - easy function for a person to spot in others and to criticise.

    8. Standard Function - a person needs guidance to realise this function, if at all.
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    Default ENFp: an explanation of functional analysis

    Hi all. I am posting this information for each type. I know the information is already available to all, but from what I've seen you have to cross reference to various charts and whatnot. This will give everyone an opportunity to see a breakdown of their type's analysis without having to cross reference. What I'd like is for people to discuss how various functions manifest themselves, such as how having for a Role function would be displayed in an ENFp.



    ENFp

    The EGO Block (1+2) Most pronounced functions, dominant over functions 3 & 4

    1. Program function - also know as the "foundation," a person places the most confidence in this function, and molds his or her lifestyle to suit this function; a person's self-esteeme and feelings of worth are based on the usage of this function.

    2. Creative function - also know as the "realisation," some effort is required to use this function, but it comes easy. It is the base function for a person's creativity and is used in conjunction with the 1st function.

    The SUPER-EGO Block (3+4) Weak and suppressed by functions 1 & 2

    3. Role function - a person may unconsciously attempt to realize this function in order to avoid the embarrassment of having the weaknesses of other functions discovered; though usually suppressed by the 1st function, it is passive and seeks not to intrude on others. A person may be sensitive to criticism in this function, and may only implement it as an informational source to aid other functions.

    4. Vulnerable function - also known as the PoLR , a fragile function by which insecurities are realized, and usually suppressed by the 2nd function. If pressure is placed on this function from an outside source, a person may react with irritation or hostility. It often manifest itself in a state of severe immaturity. This function could be likened to a naked hungry and screaming baby, unable to take care of itself. Since the 3rd function neglects to inform and support, it often relies on the 6th function for protection and survival.

    The SUPER-ID Block (5+6) Neglected functions by which a person allows to be manipulated by outside influences, usually assists functions 3 & 4

    5. Suggestive Function - also known a "dual-seeking," this function is typically the most vulnerable to ouside influences and manipulation. It is not uncommon for a person to physically request help from another in regards to this function, as it often acts as a companion and helper to the 3rd function and indirectly to the 4th function. Sometimes a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

    6. Activation Function - also know as the "Hidden-agenda," this function willfully seeks to express itself and to become energized into a state of confidence or creativity. It may attempt to compete with other functions and become dominant, deceiving many to believe it is a strong and resourceful function. In reality, it often implements itself as a disguise or a feint intended to feed, cloth, and protect other functions. It could be considered a parental function to the childish and immature 4th function. Often a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

    The ID Block (7+8) Weak and unconscious functions, usually ignored or seen as intrusive. The actual existance of these functions has been questioned.

    7. Control Function - easy function for a person to spot in others and to criticise.

    8. Standard Function - a person needs guidance to realise this function, if at all.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Would've been cooler if you'd explained the functions too.
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    What about if we all try and do that? I've got a hard time understanding the description of Gulenko et.al. If everyone does one function, we'd get the whole description done. - But that's probably impractical. Hm.

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    Lets talk about How do you feel about your physical strength or weakness, power, form, influence, authority, aggression, will power and ability to apply pressure? What do you think?

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Varies. Inconsistent. Depends on mood:

    When I was in my teens I felt ugly, physically clumsy and awkward, badly dressed, physically weak, slow, and unlikely to be listened to or taken serious. When I'm down I still feel like that a bit. In my 20s all that changed. My life improved no end, so I wasn't depressed any more. I lost weight and that made me feel better about myself. (Low self-esteem makes your movements tense and awkward; having a positive self-image changes that almost automatically.) The rest was over-compensation finally giving off results. After another few years I even realized that what I had come to think of myself was no longer true.

    BUT: when I'm depressed or very tired, this princess turns back into a frog. I become ugly, clumsy, slow, and unlikely to be listened to. A self-effacing solemn wallflower who can't be taken seriously. It's like my Se can be switched on and off. "Error 2133a has ocurred. The system will temporarily disable your Se." Once I'm fine again, it changes back to normal. When I'm feeling on top of the world, people treat me like I'm supergirl. They tell me I'm competent at everything I do, pretty, strong, always well-dressed, boisterous, confident, worth listening to. Bit strange.

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    I had a similar experience and I think perhaps many do. I enjoyed being a teenager but I was selfconscious about my height (I was the smallest in my highschool class to graduate, well aside from that one philipino girl ) My acne was way out of control (my bumps had bumps ) I totally sucked at most sports and noone cared what I thought about anything. As I got older things changed dramatically. I am physically in much better shape than most guys my age, dress well and am complimented often. I still suck at most sports but I dont avoid them like I did when I was a kid. I lift weights and run to stay fit but sometimes I slack off. I dont make much money and that will always be a problem. I try to keep my finances simple and my wants under control so I dont have problems. I have no credit card debt and a great record so Im proud of that. I would say my is much stronger now where I dont worry about it too much. I tend to think about it more when I have large financial choices looming (such as buying a house) Or when I have to take charge, give orders or make decisions affecting others. I think I have come to accept my role in life to some degree.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    I became much more self-confident with age, but this is also still me:

    BUT: when I'm depressed or very tired, this princess turns back into a frog. I become ugly, clumsy, slow, and unlikely to be listened to. Sad A self-effacing solemn wallflower who can't be taken seriously. It's like my Se can be switched on and off. Rolling Eyes "Error 2133a has ocurred. The system will temporarily disable your Se." Once I'm fine again, it changes back to normal. When I'm feeling on top of the world, people treat me like I'm supergirl. They tell me I'm competent at everything I do, pretty, strong, always well-dressed, boisterous, confident, worth listening to. Bit strange.
    How do NeFi relate to that? Sorry for just throwing this out, I'm too tired to think about it myself.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    When I was younger I was much less self-confident than now and I was the smallest in my class and had a underdeveloped , so I can relate to other ENFp stories.

    It seems that is a very important function and it has a great impact on my life quality. Problems arised when I wasn’t keeping it in shape and the most interesting thing is that my and seem to automatically develop when I’m working on . I feel more awake and alive now.

    I can be very persistent when I want to reach my goals. And when I have chosen one that feels right for me, it’s almost impossible to stop me, except I would change my priorities and find a better way. And I’m stubborn, it’s usually difficult for people to convince me about something. Another interesting thing is since I started working on my will all the will sensory types upset me less and less. Once they pissed me of with their attempts to put pressure on me now I can even laugh about it, and I get along with them much better.
    me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    How do NeFi relate to that?
    Sometimes I feel like I'm a physically weak and awkward teenager or a insecure child again, bah! Maybe these are just memories I tried to forget or some peaces of the negative self image are still left.
    me

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENFperator
    Another interesting thing is since I started working on my will all the will sensory types upset me less and less. Once they pissed me of with their attempts to put pressure on me now I can even laugh about it, and I get along with them much better.
    Hey, that's true - I feel like that too! This is getting spooky. *gulp* Are you guys sure we're not one and the same person posting under different names?

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    "ENFP - the ugly duckling type"?

    @ENFPerator: interesting what you said about helping and I can relate to that. A reasonably strong makes you feel safe and comfortable, and you feel you can actually make a difference in this world. Perhaps that's necessary for us to feel we can focus on ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    "ENFP - the ugly duckling type"?
    I dunno, my perception of myself is very split. When it came to certain activities when I was young I could clearly see that I was the ..uh swan and other activities I was the ugly duckling. It just depended on how I saw things at the moment. These things are directly related to the functions.
    When it came to it took more time to develope. My brother, who is a year an a half older than me is estp. He was amazing. When it came to playing basketball or something and he was a virutoso, throwning the ball behind his head without looking, SWOOSH, IN YOUR FACE . He was poetry in motion. He usually was surrounded by other SPs and action oriented sports types. Clearly when it came to that stuff he was the king. I tried to keep up the best I could but there was just no way.
    I was a bookworm. For hobbies I would do origami from books written in japanese, draw pictures and read the encyclopedia. Im sure my parents were thinking 'What the hell happen to this one? He's not growing. He's sensitve. He likes wierd stuff that noone else understands '
    When I read Keirsey for the first time I flipped because someone had articulated all those ideas I had. I just thought I was wierd.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Same here. I read the MBTI description and thought "wait... does that mean I'm supposed to be like this?!" Probably happens a lot to Intuitives. You read the N vs. S descriptions and get your very own epiphany.

    Draw pictures, do origami, read the encyclopedia... I can see how that could confuse one's parents. I did that too. Did anyone else do all that when they were kids? Do fiddly things with your hands, make stuff out of paper and cardboard? Draw, learn an instrument, write, make songs? Read strange books?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Same here. I read the MBTI description and thought "wait... does that mean I'm supposed to be like this?!" Probably happens a lot to Intuitives. You read the N vs. S descriptions and get your very own epiphany.

    Draw pictures, do origami, read the encyclopedia... I can see how that could confuse one's parents. I did that too. Did anyone else do all that when they were kids? Do fiddly things with your hands, make stuff out of paper and cardboard? Draw, learn an instrument, write, make songs? Read strange books?
    Eccentric thats what it is. I loved stuff like Joseph Cornell produced even when I was very young.
    http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/cornell/
    There is something so captivating about those odd dioramas. So I started to make my own from bits and pieces laying around.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Quote Originally Posted by ENFperator
    Another interesting thing is since I started working on my will all the will sensory types upset me less and less. Once they pissed me of with their attempts to put pressure on me now I can even laugh about it, and I get along with them much better.
    Hey, that's true - I feel like that too! This is getting spooky. *gulp* Are you guys sure we're not one and the same person posting under different names?
    We might be your multiple personalities that are manifestating in this forum.
    me

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat

    @ENFPerator: interesting what you said about helping and I can relate to that. A reasonably strong makes you feel safe and comfortable, and you feel you can actually make a difference in this world. Perhaps that's necessary for us to feel we can focus on ?
    I think it is. Perhaps one can compare the weaker functions with a foundation of a building, it’s possible to build a house ( ) only if it has a foundation that is strong enough to hold the construction. Developing the weaker functions (super-ego and super id) makes the strong functions feel more stable and safe and you don’t have to worry that the building could collapse at any time. That's how I see that.
    me

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    I was also very awkward as a teen but came out of that in my 20s.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Lets move the discussion along by talking about . This function for enfps is conscious but weak according to the model. It deals with 'theoretical logic, hierarchy, law, justice, rules, structure, instructions, systems, classification, typology, theory, pattern, core, analysis, criteria, shecmatics, understanding, construction and comparison'. The Infosocial Model of Human Behaviour by S. Ganin and I Attwell 1998.

    BTW Im using this little pamphlet that Ganin came out with a long time ago when socionics.com had just got started. I almost forgot I had it.

    So what do you think about ? Are you confident using it? Do you hate it and all it stands for? Does it bore you to death? Or do you find it facinating :wink: ?

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    Lets move the discussion along by talking about . This function for enfps is conscious but weak according to the model. It deals with 'theoretical logic, hierarchy, law, justice, rules, structure, instructions, systems, classification, typology, theory, pattern, core, analysis, criteria, shecmatics, understanding, construction and comparison'. The Infosocial Model of Human Behaviour by S. Ganin and I Attwell 1998.

    BTW Im using this little pamphlet that Ganin came out with a long time ago when socionics.com had just got started. I almost forgot I had it.

    So what do you think about ? Are you confident using it? Do you hate it and all it stands for? Does it bore you to death? Or do you find it facinating :wink: ?

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    OK this time it wasnt my fault. I definitely logged in but something kicked me out And then to make matters worse it posted my post twice under guest so now I cant delete it. CRAP! (excuse my language )

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    In the past 3-4 years I tried to develop my to make it stronger and failed miserably. The result of this trial was (or shold I say experiment) serious health problems, depressions, anxiety, major problems in relationships and I lost contact with friends and acquaintances. The more I focused on the worse and chaotic my life got. Now I’m radically changing my lifestyle.

    I’m confident in using for simple tasks – like separating the minor thing from major, notice correlations, making conclusions, analyzing, understanding and comparing different theories, planing action. I’ve never liked math, I find it terribly boring. I can be interested in some tasks, that require logical thinking, but I hate complex calculations *shivers* – my seems to turn off every time I have to do that and I’m just sitting there and staring. I can think logically for a particular period of time, but it costs lot of energy. After that it’s starting to bore me and I need a rest, before I can continue. At the school I had a math teacher that used to put pressure on everybodies’ by criticising all mistakes and getting emotional, even the the thinkers were shocked. ABSOLUTE HORROR!

    I find a bit fascinating how introverted thinkers (INTjs and ISTjs) are using their . They are capable of understanding the substance of a phenomena with their deep logic.

    After I stopped the training of my and started focusing on , , and later , my didn’t get weaker, but stayed approx. in the same level as before.
    me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    CRAP! (excuse my language )
    The „CRAP!” doesn’t bother me, I think it’s an adequate reaction.
    me

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    Theories, instructions, systems, classification, typology, pattern, core, analysis, understanding:
    Fine, but only if (and as long as) it's connected to real life. Anything else is boring and pointless, a total and utter waste of time (that's what it feels like for me - I know it's different for others, and I know that my own pov. here isn't the whole truth). My Ti is a good workhorse, but it's best if we just jog along at a steady and very slow pace. Anything else would probably get us onto thin ice sooner or later.

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    More on the 7th and 8th functions from http://socion.info/miscmodelofthepsyche.html

    ID Block The ID block primarily controls instinctual impulses. As a child, a person remains under the primary influence of the ID. However, Because of their nature, the functions within the ID Block cannot compete against the functions within the EGO block. Though they are typically very strong, the influence of the functions within the EGO Block may cause a person to disregard them and in result, feel that they are exceptionally weak and useless. An adult person may never really know that they have them as strength; some may even deny their very existence. However, a person is more likely to disregard the 8th function than they are to disregard the 7th function. Theoretically, This may result in that a person could have a conscious idea of the effects of their 1st function, and can discern the introverted and extroverted aspects of the function and their strengths with little effort. Yet the 2nd requires some effort, and may cloak the strengths of the 8th; it may never fully function in result. A person under strong influence of this block may appear irresponsible, uncaring, selfish, conceited, and arrogant.

    Strong, Subconscious, Accepting - 7th function - the seventh function manifests itself as an instrument of instinctual aggression, intended to serve and protect the basic interest of an individual. A person wants, and wants immediately. In result, a person under the influence of this function may subconsciously reproduce and model behaviors that appear arrogant, haughty, conceited, selfish, or inconsiderate in relation to the function involved.

    Strong, Subconscious, Producing - 8th function - Without the suppression of the second function, this function needs guidance, as it must use a concrete means to manage itself. When unrestrained, a person may realize this function chaotically and without self-control, appearing indulgent and uncanny. People under the influence of the 8th function may have no direction and no productive aims or goals besides the self-gratification of the manifested function involved.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    More on the 7th and 8th functions from http://socion.info/miscmodelofthepsyche.html

    ID Block The ID block primarily controls instinctual impulses. As a child, a person remains under the primary influence of the ID. However, Because of their nature, the functions within the ID Block cannot compete against the functions within the EGO block. Though they are typically very strong, the influence of the functions within the EGO Block may cause a person to disregard them and in result, feel that they are exceptionally weak and useless. An adult person may never really know that they have them as strength; some may even deny their very existence. However, a person is more likely to disregard the 8th function than they are to disregard the 7th function. Theoretically, This may result in that a person could have a conscious idea of the effects of their 1st function, and can discern the introverted and extroverted aspects of the function and their strengths with little effort. Yet the 2nd requires some effort, and may cloak the strengths of the 8th; it may never fully function in result. A person under strong influence of this block may appear irresponsible, uncaring, selfish, conceited, and arrogant.

    Strong, Subconscious, Accepting - 7th function - the seventh function manifests itself as an instrument of instinctual aggression, intended to serve and protect the basic interest of an individual. A person wants, and wants immediately. In result, a person under the influence of this function may subconsciously reproduce and model behaviors that appear arrogant, haughty, conceited, selfish, or inconsiderate in relation to the function involved.

    Strong, Subconscious, Producing - 8th function - Without the suppression of the second function, this function needs guidance, as it must use a concrete means to manage itself. When unrestrained, a person may realize this function chaotically and without self-control, appearing indulgent and uncanny. People under the influence of the 8th function may have no direction and no productive aims or goals besides the self-gratification of the manifested function involved.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Varies. Inconsistent. Depends on mood:

    When I was in my teens I felt ugly, physically clumsy and awkward, badly dressed, physically weak, slow, and unlikely to be listened to or taken serious. When I'm down I still feel like that a bit. In my 20s all that changed. My life improved no end, so I wasn't depressed any more. I lost weight and that made me feel better about myself. (Low self-esteem makes your movements tense and awkward; having a positive self-image changes that almost automatically.) The rest was over-compensation finally giving off results. After another few years I even realized that what I had come to think of myself was no longer true.
    I can relate to this very well and I do tend feel like I am ugly and that I could look a lot better if I give some effort. I felt inadequate as a person and ashamed when I couldn't achieve the goal. My friend would then make fun of my tense ackward movements and it actually made my self-esteem worse and I tried to fix it, but it makes it more tense.

    Though, when I feel that I'm at my best OR I really don't care about the way I look, I tend to be very confident and on top of the world. Then to my surprise, I get told that I was very well liked and appeared confident when I get told this. I really wish I act like this all the time, I think I got to train myself to do it or let it flow, it will come with time...

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    I did above post
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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