Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Intuition(s)

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Intuition(s)



    It's like having a TV set in your head where a crazy nut constantly changes channels, and you just can't control it. When I do something physicaly, like cleaning (I have to - house rules ) I always generate a lot of ideas which aren't connected to anything. In a moment, I stop to "look at" the idea and concentrate on surrounding (broom ). It doesn't last long - the idea returns. Hmph... strange. Whatever I do physicaly, ideas get in my way, consuming most of my concentration.

    I wonder, what is like to have an introverted intuition as your primary mental (first function) information processing device? What do INTPs "see" most of the time? What are your ideas about? Are you absent minded like ENTPs, when watching your "the TV set"?

  2. #2
    Cone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,717
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    Yes, it is very much like having a crazy guy changing the channels on your "TV set", yet instead of constantly generating ideas, the guy constantly generates thoughts. I'll start on a though process, then 10 seconds later, find myself on another thought completely unrelated to the previous. And I constantly find tangents to go off on in my thought and speech. I can be sweeping the floor in the kitchen, completely focused for about 20 seconds, then I'll start thinking about a bunch of thoughts and go on auto-pilot. All of the sudden, I'll come back to sweeping the floor, and I find that I've finished, yet I can't remember doing most of it. I can read an entire book, scanning over every word, and still not even remember who the main character was or what the plot was even about when I've finished. I'll be taking a test, then all of the sudden, I'll be thinking about something completely unrelated, I'll come back to the test, then realize that I've been sitting there for 5 minutes doing nothing. Thus, I'm usually the last one done with a test (even though I usually do better than everyone else.) I often get caught in blank stares.

    Absent-minded? Yes, definitely. What do we see most of the time? A million thoughts all at once. What are our ideas about? Daydreams, things we've been thinking about for a while, the future, typing this post, etc.

    So I guess INTps are like shy ENTps.

    Your Contrary INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  3. #3
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


    Might be a little overly metaphorical but I always like to look at it like this- judging types are slaves to something, whereas perceiving types are possessed by something. would you rather be a slave or be possessed? either way you're stuck in your body and are subject to the demands and misgivings of the outside world. We never really have control of our consciousness or actions, we just like to think we do.

    i agree with drake, it is like some nutcase keeps changing the channel- flashing random images and associations. They all seem to lead in the same direction for me though. They may appear unrelated to other people but i'm always thinking "if only i could integrate it with that other thing!"

    Cone, I do the same thing when reading- ill read pages and pages of a book and then realize that i can't recall a word of it. I then restart the chapter, but after the first sentence the thought occurs to me "hm, i wonder if what i read is imbeded somehwere in my brain and i just can't recall it?" then i have to re-read the chapter again.

    but as for the shyness- well, what an ENTp lacks in shyness it makes up for in awkwardness(at least in my case).

    I like Pedro-The-Lion's sniper analogy for the INTj. As though you have total control of your actions so long as its within the limits of the system(in this case sniping). It's a talent i envy- I wouldn't be able to do that. too confining.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wilmington NC USA
    Posts
    666
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ahh yes. will keep you up at night putting things away in it's place...your thoughts, things, how you feel, people, associations, all of it. I feel like I use like a map, when I need to troubleshoot something, provides the flowchart I slice through with logic.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default intuition(s)

    as a second function is useful, but not powerful enough to express ideas generated by at a rate they are generated. is slower than . It takes more time to form connection between imagined entities, which consists of atributes, nouns, adjectives, numbers, verbs and so on. even generates ideas such that there are no words with which they can be expressed.
    sometimes forms faulty connections (ad-hoc) between imagined entities. Because of that you pick wrong words when saying something.

    These are just my oppinions.

  6. #6
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    types know how to better than types but types know how to better than types. Both types, however, are still really good at both and . !!!

    all of the functions need one another just as all us types need one another.

    I do agree in part with what drake is saying but I think its only fair to say that the average ENTp is always a little less sure of their knowledge than the average INTj is.

    but i guess this post was about and and not and .

    in conclusion, i enjoy emoticons.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wilmington NC USA
    Posts
    666
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  8. #8
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


  9. #9
    Cone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,717
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Am I the only INTp on this board or something? It seems quite lonely in here...
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Intuition seems to function as a process of gathering perceptual information all together in a few summarized thoughts. But it happens so quick that it is not logically processed (in the case of ENTp and possibly INTp), it is somewhat like the central control room of the Matrix Reloaded movie; a room that is covered in images and the thoughts can guide oneself to the most appealing one.

    On the other hand, I do not think that intuition should be confused with mental pictures, a product of consciousness

    http://www.localgroup.net/pmpb/chapter07.html

    I agree with Cone with the duck example that was used in another post (Ne and Ni, you and I?).

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I recently came to the thought that for me, (maybe everyone else too) that the more complex and realistic the idea of the first function, the more happiness results. The second function to me takes a little effort if the idea is simple but much effort if the idea is more complex. Using is simple and seemingly effortless, no matter how complex the idea, the part that does take effort is for an ENTp.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    to you

  13. #13
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    I've been thinking about this. I think it may not be simply "complexity" in the traditional sense but positive stimulation of as many functions as possible. I think that's why dual relationships are so enjoyable.
    I find this thought interesting...

    interesting enough to ask you to elaborate.

  14. #14
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Very interesting.

    althought i dont have time to really go in depth i'll try to give you an at least mediocre response.
    I actually have had similar thoughts about creating a complete integration of functions individual functions so that you can see your idea as completely as you can.

    I like to look at anything abstract- that is, in our minds, as connotations. Each function seems to correspond to a wavelength- that is, a "connotative frequency" I would imagine that such frequencies are relative dependent upon where the seat of consciousness lies(sorry im so vague)- the seat of consciousness being the individuals dominant functions. So yes, I totally agree about the stimulation.

    Although ill need more time and resources to study all of this what i find interesting about this all that with duals the bi-product of their dominant functions correspond with the other's weaker conscious functions.
    for instance my has an bi-product
    which corresponds with, or "exercises" the weak of my dual's consciousness. This is sorta weird because my unconscious informational bi-product seems to make up for my dual's lower conscious understanding. It almost creates an environmental suppliment for what they cannot abstractly produce in their mind. over time the mind begins to develop these lower functions just by being around corresponding informational space. The "connotative associations" begin building up.
    I dont really have time to elaborate but i am aware of the incompleteness of this thought, perhaps at a later time i can go into further detail. It does all seem to fit in and fold over though.

    but with this little bit in mind when we move to the quadra level this "connotative frequency" is further tightened with the addition of a mirror, which reverses every represented function and make up for all of the other even slighter weaknesses.

    and about altered states- in altered states i have experienced many very strange things. Sometimes it felt as though my type was actually switching, or at least certain functions were becomming numbed or suppressed. As thought i was jumping into different conscious states.

    but even on a day to day basis i have found myself becomming more open minded over time. this probably has to do with my increasing awareness with age and the presence of corressponding types in my day to day life.
    (when I started to find myself listening to pop music with a little more appreciation It occured to me, someone that has always despised that crap, that the awareness of those around me was somehow brushing off.)

    ex: when someone says "buttered shrimp" what do you think? everyone will describe it differently but the best description is the most complete one. Taste, texture, smell, size etc.. etc...

    the "informational" way of thinking has got to be the way of the future.

    I think that alot of conflicts amongst people involve many cliques fighting one another without being able to see from the other side's perspective. If what you're saying can be done more "appreciation" of the many angles and perspectives of things can be seen. althought development of functions may be slowed in a dual and quadra present environment, the idea will be more complete. All the angles will be covered and everything will be as symmetrical as possible.

    i may have gone off a bit but i do see and agree 100% with what you're saying.

  15. #15
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I apologize for how brief my response is going to be but I have classes in the morning so I don't have alot of time.

    Good thoughts and pointers on the "by-product"(please excuse my earlier mispelling) idea, I will see what i can do to develop it some more.

    By informational space i refer to the location that the information is being relayed. that is- it is the space in which the by-products pool. It is an abstract idea but my understanding of it is that it is a regarded space where information is being pooled, exchanged, and also expelled. When you have a classroom of people the informational space would be the classroom(as a closed system) and the information would be represented as the human beings(types) that inhabit it as well as the by-products in which they produce.

    To give a reasonable example; I am not, from an informational standpoint, merely defined as biological entity, but am rather an open system which has an effect upon the space that it occupies. So, look around you- what you are seeing is the informational space that you occupy. It is not only an extension of you informational type, but also in many ways an expression of your type(albeit a negative?). If you left your room and some sort of specialist were to look through the space you typically occupy they would be able to deduce your type simply by viewing how you arrange things and the reading through the various representations of your thoughts- such as journals, etcetera. So your type is not only in you, but around you.

    when you have any given group of people chat in an empty parking lot(open system) and then part from one another there is no visible residue or "by-product" remaining. This does not mean that there is no by-product. The by-product exists in the mind, in memory. since these individuals have different capacities for storing information
    the memories or "impressions" will all be related to the strengths of the different functions.

    Although no system is truly closed we need to imagine that it is in order to make orderly decisions. This illusion is "information".

    we can see all time and human existence as an informational pool that deepens with every succeeding generation. this pool has waves in it, like the ocean. These waves can be compared to the cyclical nature of the dominance of different quadras in different eras of human history.

    I'd better get going but I'll put out one more thought I had earlier today. don't take it too seriously but it is definitely something to contemplate.

    there are four basic informational functions- they say there are also four basic forces holding the universe together. could the informational functions be outward(and inward) manifestations of these four basic forces?

  16. #16
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    oh i know. the four forces thing stretches Ne to its limits. guess it has more of a spooky mystical quality to it for me than anything else- an "if only someone could" quality. I'm no physicist.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmmm. Interesting thoughts on possession or enslavement. I think I'm usually possessed. By different ideas that change on a cycle.

    I'm forty. My is fast loose effortless and free. With only a little discipline my can kick in quickly and analytically.

    I know what people mean by absentminded. I get lost in thought all the time, forget about my surroundings. It's almost like introversion, except it isn't.
    Entp
    ILE

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    -..Imagination, allows me to invent life purposes for people.
    -..In ancient Russian villages a harmonist was not only a unique person, but also mystical – in the so called holiday fights he was untouchable. He played special tunes that accompanied the fight, these tunes drove people to utter atrocity. Often the fight persisted until the first man was killed, and that was not a crime. It was a sort of human sacrifice. The harmonist was clearly a very deep intuitive and feeler. He embodied the spirit of war! There is a Russian proverb, “a village does not stand without a holy man”. Every human colony needs a man who does not have to struggle to make a living – a symbol of eternity. The Russian world was guarded not only by ESTps – the guardians of the body, but also INFps – the mystical guardians of the spirit.
    -..For myself, it allows me to choose the best general direction, which brings luck despite the mistakes on a smaller scale.
    -..I can “remember” the future, so the starting point for improvement for me is not in the present, but in the future. I achieve this by understanding that certain patterns and habits will inevitably lead to a certain outcome (perhaps by observing that that’s what happened to a similar but older person he knew who had the same habits, or from studying history. Thus I know what will happen to people unless their habitual behavior patterns are somehow derailed.
    -..Remembering the future makes me lucky; and I attract luck to people who know me, if they are sincere, serving as a compass for their unconscious. People who try to take advantage of me find themselves in a shipwreck.
    -..“INFps may appreciate a job that allows them to bring out the best in others, like coaching and teaching…”
    -..“Among INFps there are many writers: it is easier for them to express their deeply hidden ideas and feelings in writing… They might not be able to express them verbally, but in written word they may exhibit amazing expressivity and power.”
    -..INFp understands, how much potential a particular person has, and tries to associate with one who have a lot of potential. If he percieves that the latter is losing the right direction, first he’d try to steer him in the right direction, give suggestions; if his opinion is ignored – he leaves him for another. So an INFp is a very precise thermostat of potential of an individual or a group! This makes him useful in ANY industry.
    -..His productivity depends PURELY on mood, so it’s impossible to predict how productive INFp will be.
    -..Unfortunately he has a tendency to get tired fast, which tends to prevent him from reaching his full potential. WITHOUT MORAL SUPPORT he may not achieve the status he deserves.
    -..The best conditions for him to be active – when his activity (which MUST be creative) is directed by someone.
    -..It’s useless to expect him to be a bread winner. His dreamy and emotional nature, and low energy levels are not favourable to business savviness.
    -..Keywords: efforts to find a strong partner, ability to manipulate him for his own agenda, powerlessness in business sphere, difficulty solving household problems, inability to pass on immdeate desires, spiritual needs override the physical ones.

  19. #19
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LK: I agree with the point you made about being able to predict the future using your intuition.
    It fits the classic definition of intuition, Once people start to understand the patterns in things, or to learn new technologies, their capacity for predict the future is strengthened. That's why some psychics can often wow people people with their ability to predict future events or make meaningful guesses. its because they have refined their ability to read people and events and make deductions from this. For example, a refined knowledge and exposure to thermodynamics can cause a person to predict how long it will take for an iced cube to melt.

    we all have a capacity to predict future events- if there were a way to master a general system of intuiting, the average person, probably especially the intuitive perceiving types, could certainly maximize their psychic potential. I think that Si types also have strong abilities in this area.

    I have noticed that extraverted intuitive types tend to have more trouble predicting smaller events but have a strong ability to foresee future global changes. An ENFp and I would often discuss such "premonitions" on a day to day basis. the only problem is that we could never be so sure as to wether or not we were right about it since it was just a "feeling" for him, and a sort of "deduction" for me.

    maybe, no, probably some people possess unique gifts which heighten their perceptiveness.

    someone could go on forever about this but my guess is that judging types have their own talents in this area as well.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallinn
    Posts
    595
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've tried to read Ausras book called ''The Socion'' via the translator and though I couldn't get much through, I remember her mentioning hypothesis that the 4 functions are related somehow with the 4 forces in the Universe.

    Now I got this idea by reading postings here through and I think that in our brain, there is a place, where the information gets sorted: it's kind of something like that, this info gets more attentsion, this info gets less, this info gets even more less information. F.e Ne gets 5 units, Ti gets 4 units, Se gets 3 units, Fi gets 2 units.

    And we shouldn't forget this minor detail, that though we all have 8 functions in our brain, each of us has unique features in it's brain so each of us has 8 function in their ways. ENTps Ne is like having a crazy guy in your head, but it's not all, there are uniqualities in each of us what makes Ne in every ENTp unique.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Intuition Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth
    oh i know. the four forces thing stretches Ne to its limits. guess it has more of a spooky mystical quality to it for me than anything else- an "if only someone could" quality. I'm no physicist.
    There are four fundamental forces within all atoms, that dictate interactions between individual particles, and the large-scale behavior of all matter throughout the Universe. They are the strong and weak nuclear forces the electromagnetic force and gravitation
    http://www.geocities.com/angolano/As...talForces.html (a pretty decent short introduction)

    Pretty much everything in everyday life is explained by either gravity or the electro-magnetic force. As an analogy it sounds fine, but I would rather not use analogies that may mislead one into thinking there is actually some more fundamental underlying equivalence.

    I think the concepts of socionics need to be much simplified, too much mysticism just gets you lost into the ocean of eternal oblivion. I would tentatively define intuition simply as semi-random input from long-term memory, any better ideas?

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wilmington NC USA
    Posts
    666
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Intuition Defined

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth
    oh i know. the four forces thing stretches Ne to its limits. guess it has more of a spooky mystical quality to it for me than anything else- an "if only someone could" quality. I'm no physicist.
    There are four fundamental forces within all atoms, that dictate interactions between individual particles, and the large-scale behavior of all matter throughout the Universe. They are the strong and weak nuclear forces the electromagnetic force and gravitation
    http://www.geocities.com/angolano/As...talForces.html (a pretty decent short introduction)

    Pretty much everything in everyday life is explained by either gravity or the electro-magnetic force. As an analogy it sounds fine, but I would rather not use analogies that may mislead one into thinking there is actually some more fundamental underlying equivalence.

    I think the concepts of socionics need to be much simplified, too much mysticism just gets you lost into the ocean of eternal oblivion. I would tentatively define intuition simply as semi-random input from long-term memory, any better ideas?
    I've seen some metaphysical stuff attached to socionics(and had entries in my database schema assuming I would fill them with information). Some of it makes a lot of sense, although it seems it gets off track. IE Intuition of possibilities, and intuition of time, etc.
    Physics are very interesting to me, alot of good analogies which have no basis for fact although seem to fit well for the analogy's sense can be used....for example....
    quantum mechanics, or just the behavior of electroncs around a nucleus resembles relationships and intimacy...it also resembles astrophysics, although larger bodies and different forces are in play(weak nuclear force vs gravity). Wave/particle duality and relativity are interesting concepts too...for seeing different perspectives coming from different people and something being two things are once(is light a wave or a photon? it has the seemingly contradictary principals of both, although someone with a photon detector will tell you they are most definately photons moving in a straight line, while someone with a sprectrum analyser will say they move in waves of a certain frequency. these seem to contradict each other but experiements verify both). interesting stuff.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •